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 Posted: Mon, 18th Jun 2018 09:31 Post subject: Gaming Companies Remove Analytics App After Massive Outcry |
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https://games.slashdot.org/story/18/06/17/1933231/gaming-companies-remove-analytics-app-after-massive-user-outcry?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+Slashdot%2Fslashdot+%28Slashdot%29
| Quote: | "Several gaming companies have announced plans to remove support for an analytics app they have bundled with their games," reports Bleeping Computer. "The decision to remove the app came after several Reddit and Steam users noticed that many game publishers have recently embedded a controversial analytics SDK (software development kit) part of recent updates to their games. The program bundled with all these games, and at the heart of all the recent controversy, is RedShell, an analytics package provided by Innervate, Inc., to game publishers."
The app is intended to collect information about the source of new game installs, and details about the gamer. Following a massive user outcry in the past two weeks, several game makers have given in to pressure and are removing this SDK. Game makers and games who announced they were removing RedShell include Bethesda (Elder Scrolls), All Total War games, Warhammer games, Magic the Gathering Arena, and more. [This Google Docs spreadsheet and Reddit thread have a list of games containing RedShell.] |
https://www.reddit.com/r/Steam/comments/8pud8b/psa_red_shell_spyware_holy_potatoes_were_in_space/
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2) SFFPC (streaming via Moonlight+ Sunshine)
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| Posted: Mon, 18th Jun 2018 12:58 Post subject: |
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Games who used Redshell which removed or pledged to remove it (as of 16.06.2018):
Elder Scrolls Online (Pledged to remove it)
Conan Exiles (Pledged to remove it)
Ylands (Pledged to remove it)
Holy Potatoes! We’re in Space?! (Pledged to remove it)
All Total War games, (Pledged to remove it)
Warhammer: Vermintide II, (Pledged to remove it)
Warhammer: Vermintide I, (might get removed also?)
My Time At Portia, (Pledged to remove it)
Dead by Daylight, (Pledged to remove it)
Battlerite, (Pledged to remove it)
AER Memories of Old, (Pledged to remove it)
Magic the Gathering Arena (closed beta & not on Steam), (Pledged to remove it for now)
Secret World Legends (Pledged to remove remains of it)
Hunt: Showdown (Pledged to remove it)
Escapists 2 (Pledged to remove it)
Omensight (Pledged to remove it)
Games still using Redshell according to community reports (as of 16.06.2018):
Civilization VI,
Kerbal Space Program,
Guardians of Ember,
The Onion Knights,
Realm Grinder,
Heroine Anthem Zero,
Warhammer 40k Eternal Crusade,
Krosmaga
Eternal Card Game
Sniper Ghost Warrior 3
Astro Boy: Edge of Time
Ballistic Overkill
Cabals: Card Blitz
CityBattle | Virtual Earth
Desolate
Doodle God
Doodle God Blitz
Dungeon Rushers
Labyrinth
My Free Farm 2
NosTale
RockShot
Shadowverse
SOS & SOS Classic
SoulWorker
Stonies
Tales from Candlekeep: Tomb of Annihilation
War Robots
Survived By
Injustice 2
The Wild Eight
Yoku's Island Express
Raging Justice
Warriors: Rise to Glory!
Trailmakers
Clone Drone in the Danger Zone
Vaporum
Robothorium
League of Pirates
Doodle God: Genesis Secrets
| Lutzifer wrote: | | and yes, mine is only average |
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xExtreme
Posts: 5811
Location: 43 6C 75 6A 2D 4E 61 70 6F 63 61
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| Posted: Tue, 19th Jun 2018 15:53 Post subject: |
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https://np.reddit.com/r/Steam/comments/8pud8b/psa_red_shell_spyware_holy_potatoes_were_in_space/
Block these domains in your firewall, hosts-file whatever you prefer...
| Code: | 0.0.0.0 redshell.io
0.0.0.0 api.redshell.io
0.0.0.0 treasuredata.com
0.0.0.0 in.treasuredata.com |
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Sometimes I publish YouTube videos: https://www.youtube.com/@RandomTechChannel
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| Posted: Tue, 19th Jun 2018 21:51 Post subject: |
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Was the data anonymized or not? If it was anonymized then I don't care at all - let the companies have all the anonymous data they want.
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| Posted: Wed, 20th Jun 2018 00:26 Post subject: |
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Please explain how advertising-related data would be anonymized...
Ofc it's not, that's the whole fucking point.
| Frant wrote: | | Shitass games are ruining piracy. |
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| Posted: Wed, 20th Jun 2018 00:33 Post subject: |
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Last edited by Interinactive on Mon, 4th Oct 2021 09:52; edited 1 time in total
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| Posted: Wed, 20th Jun 2018 00:36 Post subject: |
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Taken from an in-depth discussion at: https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/redshell-spyware/24228/3
| Quote: |
As mentioned in their privacy policy and in the documentation, game developers can use 1 or more of the following data points to create an anonymized user id via the in-game API: IP address, SDK version, anonymized User ID, timestamp, Developer API Key, OS version, screen resolution, timezone, system language, installed fonts, installed web browsers, and in-game events.
The more players you have, the more data points you’d likely want to use so you’re sure that each user is being given a unique id. Ultimately though, this stuff is anonymized away. As far as I can gather, this is, at worst, equivalent to Google Analytics (except neither FS nor Red Shell have any idea of what sites you browse except for the ones serving their ads).
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At first glance and based on that discussion, it's anonymized. As long as they don't store my IP or any other info after creating an anonymous userID, there's little reason for concern imo. If it's not anonymized then please feel free to correct me, I'll be happy to learn otherwise and see that the current outcry is in fact justified.
It seems to me that people are just freaking out about this privacy stuff way too much, and it's affecting our lives in a negative way (look at how much worse steamspy became, as a single example). Nobody should be able to "own" anonymous data, and nobody should ever require consent to collect it.
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LeoNatan
Banned
Posts: 73193
Location: Ramat Gan, Israel 🇮🇱
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| Posted: Wed, 20th Jun 2018 07:42 Post subject: |
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| Interinactive wrote: | | r3dshift wrote: | | Please explain how advertising-related data would be anonymized.. |
If you read some of the links within the link, you can see examples of developers who clearly explain that it is anonymous.
| Quote: | WHY WE'RE GATHERING ANY DATA AT ALL
Let me start by saying this, which is probably the most important thing - all the data we're gathering are anonymous and are gathered for two purposes only:
* to evaluate if/to what degree some of our marketing campaigns work
* to get data on how the game is played and how it can be improved
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Those are the same tired horseshit excuses from the web cancer now brought to gaming. Still a huge breach of confidence.
For tens of years, those derpelopers were able to "evaluate" all that stuff without spying on users. Now suddenly those incompetent fucks can't do it. Bullshit. It's data collection, just like the web cancer. |
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| Posted: Wed, 20th Jun 2018 12:06 Post subject: |
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Agree with Leo above.
| Frant wrote: | | Shitass games are ruining piracy. |
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| Posted: Wed, 20th Jun 2018 12:19 Post subject: |
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Last edited by Interinactive on Mon, 4th Oct 2021 09:52; edited 1 time in total
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Nodrim
Posts: 9342
Location: Romania
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| Posted: Wed, 20th Jun 2018 12:24 Post subject: |
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| Interinactive wrote: | | If you're going to cry foul you're going to have to provide some evidence for whatever it is you think they're doing with the exact type of data they are collecting. |
There is no need for evidence. As a citizen of EU I'm now protected by GDPR law. Having a spyware installed in my computer without my consent it's in violation of this very law. The real problem for me is why EU hasn't jumped in to fine the shit out of these developers.
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| Posted: Wed, 20th Jun 2018 13:26 Post subject: |
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| Nodrim wrote: | | Interinactive wrote: | | If you're going to cry foul you're going to have to provide some evidence for whatever it is you think they're doing with the exact type of data they are collecting. |
There is no need for evidence. As a citizen of EU I'm now protected by GDPR law. Having a spyware installed in my computer without my consent it's in violation of this very law. The real problem for me is why EU hasn't jumped in to fine the shit out of these developers. |
Are you sure you didn't consent to it though? Many games require you to accept an agreement before you install them.
Not saying that makes it okay, but just want to make it clear its not as simple as that.
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| Posted: Wed, 20th Jun 2018 13:30 Post subject: |
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| BearishSun wrote: | | Nodrim wrote: | | Interinactive wrote: | | If you're going to cry foul you're going to have to provide some evidence for whatever it is you think they're doing with the exact type of data they are collecting. |
There is no need for evidence. As a citizen of EU I'm now protected by GDPR law. Having a spyware installed in my computer without my consent it's in violation of this very law. The real problem for me is why EU hasn't jumped in to fine the shit out of these developers. |
Are you sure you didn't consent to it though? Many games require you to accept an agreement before you install them.
Not saying that makes it okay, but just want to make it clear its not as simple as that. |
Yeah, it ain't as easy. You do have some rights always available though, such as the right to be forgotten. But that only applies if it is personal data that can be directed back to you, as a person. If it's fully anonymized (which I doubt, but could be) then you're out of luck.
PC: Yes. Console: No.
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Nodrim
Posts: 9342
Location: Romania
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| Posted: Wed, 20th Jun 2018 14:14 Post subject: |
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| BearishSun wrote: | | Nodrim wrote: | | Interinactive wrote: | | If you're going to cry foul you're going to have to provide some evidence for whatever it is you think they're doing with the exact type of data they are collecting. |
There is no need for evidence. As a citizen of EU I'm now protected by GDPR law. Having a spyware installed in my computer without my consent it's in violation of this very law. The real problem for me is why EU hasn't jumped in to fine the shit out of these developers. |
Are you sure you didn't consent to it though? Many games require you to accept an agreement before you install them.
Not saying that makes it okay, but just want to make it clear its not as simple as that. |
This has been discussed on reddit already and it's not the case. If it it was part of an agreement, this scandal would have probably started a long time ago.
Also, according to GDPR, things like this should be 'opt in' not 'opt out' and accepting the terms of agreement is the first requirement to be able to install or start a game.
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| Posted: Wed, 20th Jun 2018 15:12 Post subject: |
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| Nodrim wrote: | | BearishSun wrote: | | Nodrim wrote: |
There is no need for evidence. As a citizen of EU I'm now protected by GDPR law. Having a spyware installed in my computer without my consent it's in violation of this very law. The real problem for me is why EU hasn't jumped in to fine the shit out of these developers. |
Are you sure you didn't consent to it though? Many games require you to accept an agreement before you install them.
Not saying that makes it okay, but just want to make it clear its not as simple as that. |
This has been discussed on reddit already and it's not the case. If it it was part of an agreement, this scandal would have probably started a long time ago.
Also, according to GDPR, things like this should be 'opt in' not 'opt out' and accepting the terms of agreement is the first requirement to be able to install or start a game. |
I do agree about 'opt out', but I'm not so sure about this not being a part of the agreement. I've literally just looked up one game from the list and found a link to the privacy policy in its EULA, with explanation how it collects personal data.
Search Vermintide 2 on Steam
Click on its EULA
Search "Privacy"
First hit is a link to their privacy policy: http://www.fatsharkgames.com/privacy/
EDIT: And the thing with online games is, they collect data as part of the core gameplay. Often those analytics services use a lot of the same data the game servers use as well (e.g. tracking player position to determine 'engagment' at certains part of the level, while the same data is used for normal in-game player actions). So I feel it would be hard to distinguish that type of data under GDPR.
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