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Werelds
Special Little Man
Posts: 15098
Location: 0100111001001100
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 Posted: Wed, 30th Oct 2013 10:34 Post subject: |
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| Breezer_ wrote: | So 120hz seems to be stuttery mess?, no worries you can get from Eizo some hax "240hz" monitor  Atleast its VA panel compared to shit TN.
| Quote: | | Everything looks smoother on the world’s first 240 Hz gaming monitor. The fluid motion combined with low input lag and color presets from professional gamers ensure a can’t-miss experience whether you play first-person shooter, fighting or other fast-action genres. |
http://www.eizo.com/global/products/foris/fg2421/index.html |
I'm finally allowed to talk about this one 
The 240 Hz is not a "hack". You know the LightBoost everyone raves on about? This is exactly that. But without actual hacks. This does the 240 Hz light strobing you get with LightBoost. Difference is that this was built for it. It runs at 120 Hz and on top of that you can activate the 240 Hz mode, which essentially flashes the backlight twice as fast; still refreshes at 120 Hz, but the backlight flashes at 240, exactly the same as LightBoost.
I've had the prototype for this to test. It works. Once you activate that 240 Hz mode any ghosting is completely eliminated. The standard 120 Hz is already good and the 240 Hz mode does come with a slight loss of brightness naturally (albeit not as much as I've seen on LightBoost).
Besides that, the monitor itself is exactly what you'd expect: great colours, comes with a properly calibrated sRGB profile amongst others and because it's a VA panel the contrast and black levels are insane.
You can also hook it up to your PC via USB and control literally everything via software and hotkeys. Better yet, it has game detection built into the software, so for games you can have it automatically switch profiles; i.e. for Quake you could have a high gamma/brightness + 240 Hz mode whereas for Crysis you may want sRGB at 120  |
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| Posted: Wed, 30th Oct 2013 10:36 Post subject: |
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Werelds
Special Little Man
Posts: 15098
Location: 0100111001001100
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| Posted: Wed, 30th Oct 2013 10:37 Post subject: |
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Samples should be going out right about now (official launch is monday), they were planning on sending one to Rasmus from FlatPanelsHD again. He reviewed the previous two Foris models as well.
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| Posted: Wed, 30th Oct 2013 10:41 Post subject: |
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couleur
[Moderator] Janitor
Posts: 14081
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JBeckman
VIP Member
Posts: 34485
Location: Sweden
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| Posted: Wed, 30th Oct 2013 10:55 Post subject: |
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Looks much better than I thought it would be, that review cleared things up as did Wereld's explanation.
From looking at stores and such here it's not too expensive either ( http://www.webhallen.com/se-sv/hardvara/185327-eizo_foris_fg2421_235-1ms-hdmi-va-240hz&view=1 ) despite being a Ezio monitor though yeah it's resolution is 1920x1080 only.
(Been looking at the Dell 3014 or what it's called but since it's a 30" the price is extremely high but it'll probably be what I upgrade to eventually.)
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Werelds
Special Little Man
Posts: 15098
Location: 0100111001001100
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| Posted: Wed, 30th Oct 2013 10:59 Post subject: |
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No, there isn't couleur 
1080p just works better due to the marketing value of "Full-HD".
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Werelds
Special Little Man
Posts: 15098
Location: 0100111001001100
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| Posted: Wed, 30th Oct 2013 11:07 Post subject: |
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Seems in the FPHD review Rasmus didn't have an sRGB preset (I didn't either when I had the prototype); Eizo told me that the retail model will have a fully calibrated sRGB preset, hopefully they didn't forget to add that
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| Posted: Wed, 30th Oct 2013 11:24 Post subject: |
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Shame that its only 23" :/ Otherwise would have been nice candidate as second monitor.
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| Posted: Wed, 30th Oct 2013 13:10 Post subject: |
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VA panel, interesting, but VA is known for notorious ghosting with certain colors, I wonder how they resolved it. is there a ton of override going on or such?
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Werelds
Special Little Man
Posts: 15098
Location: 0100111001001100
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| Posted: Wed, 30th Oct 2013 13:26 Post subject: |
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Overdrive you mean? There's some minor ghosting in the 120 Hz mode, but I found it to be no more or less than on my FS2333 (IPS), which in turn is on par with Dell's Ultrasharps for example.
Eizo's backlight technology used in this one is different, see the review on the EV2436W: http://www.flatpanelshd.com/review.php?subaction=showfull&id=1373355929
The ghosting is very, very minimal and once you turn the 240 Hz mode on it's basically eliminated.
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| Posted: Wed, 30th Oct 2013 13:52 Post subject: |
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yes, i meant overdrive. i tested game RAGE on some VA monitor way back. that game has lots of dark brown/grey/green/blue shades. on VA ghosting in these situations was horrendous.
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Werelds
Special Little Man
Posts: 15098
Location: 0100111001001100
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| Posted: Wed, 30th Oct 2013 14:27 Post subject: |
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Well like I said, the ghosting was no worse than it is on my IPS monitors and with the 240 Hz mode better in fact. That said, I didn't test RAGE because...well, RAGE
I'll be getting one of these soon enough, so I'll test some other games if you want
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| Posted: Wed, 30th Oct 2013 14:28 Post subject: |
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Ghosting is the biggest issue for VA panels when it comes to gaming, so the fact that they managed to make a great 120Hz panel out of this is a remarkable achievement all in itself.
Edit: easiest way to see the difference in ghosting (between IPS and VA) for me was simply white text on a dark background, like Winamp default skin or Steam chat window. Grab the window and move it left and right - even when doing this slowly, on a typical VA panel text will seem to darken and almost vanish (it will kinda flicker). The effect is quite pronounced. Overdrive can fix this, but depending on the implementation it can add issues of its own.
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| Posted: Fri, 1st Nov 2013 20:38 Post subject: |
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Today i nearly bought this monitor, but then i saw the price (it was fucking 550€ euros), that is too much for 23" monitor tbh. It looked very nice, but its too small for me, and the price is too much for it.
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iNs
Posts: 91
Location: Poland
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Werelds
Special Little Man
Posts: 15098
Location: 0100111001001100
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| Posted: Sat, 9th Nov 2013 23:50 Post subject: |
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For anyone unsure about just how good it is, here's a user review with more subjective results and images: http://forums.overclockers.co.uk/showpost.php?p=25273831&postcount=154
And there's also a bunch of images to prove how wrong the "TN 120 Hz WIN OVER COLORZ" folks on the hump are. If you don't see how SHIT the colours on TN are in this series of photos, you are blind as a bloody bat and need to get some (better) glasses. That TN monitor in that post is "the best" 120 Hz TN panel around according to many people (including some here on the hump). Well, keep it. For 400 Euros, that shit image quality is just not worth it.
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garus
VIP Member
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| Posted: Sun, 10th Nov 2013 00:26 Post subject: |
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snip
Last edited by garus on Tue, 27th Aug 2024 21:54; edited 1 time in total
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LeoNatan
Banned
Posts: 73193
Location: Ramat Gan, Israel 🇮🇱
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| Posted: Sun, 10th Nov 2013 01:32 Post subject: |
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| Posted: Sun, 10th Nov 2013 08:36 Post subject: |
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Dem colors...
"Quantum mechanics is actually, contrary to it's reputation, unbeliveably simple, once you take the physics out."
Scott Aaronson | chiv wrote: | | thats true you know. newton didnt discover gravity. the apple told him about it, and then he killed it. the core was never found. |
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iNs
Posts: 91
Location: Poland
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Werelds
Special Little Man
Posts: 15098
Location: 0100111001001100
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| Posted: Sun, 10th Nov 2013 15:42 Post subject: |
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| LeoNatan wrote: | 23.5", VA  |
Why yawn at VA? Compared to IPS they each have their tradeoffs. Both are infinitely superior to TN, yet neither is perfect.
As for size: they're considering bigger and higher resolutions (separately and together)
| iNs wrote: | | bah, all it takes for people to pay more attention to pva is to realease GAMING branded monitor, which is both sad and promising at once I've heard "naaah i dont need pva, its too expensive, ill get the TN uber hyped stuff one" so many times. Of course, this one is a huge step forward in that matter, but there's been a bunch of PVA screens that are pretty fine for either games or movies for a while now. Unless you're obsessive about lag input and some ghosting effect, you all could've taken advantage of PVA already |
Input lag *is* a big deal, as is ghosting
Very few VA panels out there that are good enough on those 2 fronts to be good for gaming and they all cost a fortune. |
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| Posted: Sun, 10th Nov 2013 15:50 Post subject: |
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| iNs wrote: | | bah, all it takes for people to pay more attention to pva is to realease GAMING branded monitor, which is both sad and promising at once I've heard "naaah i dont need pva, its too expensive, ill get the TN uber hyped stuff one" so many times. Of course, this one is a huge step forward in that matter, but there's been a bunch of PVA screens that are pretty fine for either games or movies for a while now. Unless you're obsessive about lag input and some ghosting effect, you all could've taken advantage of PVA already |
I don't quite follow your reasoning. The only reason you would get a "hyped" TN over other panels is for gaming purposes, in this case a gaming branded VA monitor is exactly what it takes to reconsider.
Other than that, the advantage the VA panels have is their deeper blacks and contrast ratio. This is something that mainly has value for entertainment purposes - such as gaming or movies (and I doubt anyone will buy himself a monitor strictly for watching movies). For any other use, especially on a professional level, IPS is what people would choose.
Now we have another advantage to the VA panels - its the only type other than TN that can provide response times good enough to work as a 120Hz monitor.
My point being, there wasn't a whole lot of reasons for people to be paying attention to VA screens specifically other than for gaming. I was looking for a good VA panel for a while myself - only recently have there beens some decent ones that are suitable for gaming, but they are still inferior to IPS screens in terms of response times and ghosting.
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iNs
Posts: 91
Location: Poland
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| Posted: Sun, 10th Nov 2013 16:29 Post subject: |
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| Werelds wrote: | | LeoNatan wrote: | | 23.5", VA |
Why yawn at VA? Compared to IPS they each have their tradeoffs. Both are infinitely superior to TN, yet neither is perfect.
As for size: they're considering bigger and higher resolutions (separately and together)
| iNs wrote: | | bah, all it takes for people to pay more attention to pva is to realease GAMING branded monitor, which is both sad and promising at once I've heard "naaah i dont need pva, its too expensive, ill get the TN uber hyped stuff one" so many times. Of course, this one is a huge step forward in that matter, but there's been a bunch of PVA screens that are pretty fine for either games or movies for a while now. Unless you're obsessive about lag input and some ghosting effect, you all could've taken advantage of PVA already |
Input lag *is* a big deal, as is ghosting
Very few VA panels out there that are good enough on those 2 fronts to be good for gaming and they all cost a fortune. |
Mkay, 'Good' in this case, is pretty much relative, don't you think? One might find mediocre ghosting/inputlag disruptive, while other one might be just fine with it. It's the same about the price and the fortune you talk about. One might be willing to spend 4x times that much for a good VA panel, another one might not. What is not the same, is the plain advantage of VA for everyday's work, some occasional gaming/movies, programming. In every of the above I find VA a better choice. It has to be really bad and sluggish to feel the notorious pain that ghosting/input lag may bring up.
| MinderMast wrote: | | iNs wrote: | | bah, all it takes for people to pay more attention to pva is to realease GAMING branded monitor, which is both sad and promising at once I've heard "naaah i dont need pva, its too expensive, ill get the TN uber hyped stuff one" so many times. Of course, this one is a huge step forward in that matter, but there's been a bunch of PVA screens that are pretty fine for either games or movies for a while now. Unless you're obsessive about lag input and some ghosting effect, you all could've taken advantage of PVA already |
I don't quite follow your reasoning. The only reason you would get a "hyped" TN over other panels is for gaming purposes, in this case a gaming branded VA monitor is exactly what it takes to reconsider.
Other than that, the advantage the VA panels have is their deeper blacks and contrast ratio. This is something that mainly has value for entertainment purposes - such as gaming or movies (and I doubt anyone will buy himself a monitor strictly for watching movies). For any other use, especially on a professional level, IPS is what people would choose.
Now we have another advantage to the VA panels - its the only type other than TN that can provide response times good enough to work as a 120Hz monitor.
My point being, there wasn't a whole lot of reasons for people to be paying attention to VA screens specifically other than for gaming. I was looking for a good VA panel for a while myself - only recently have there beens some decent ones that are suitable for gaming, but they are still inferior to IPS screens in terms of response times and ghosting. |
I rather meant that people are not eager to try PVA panels because their advantages are not justified for them (until you put em in front of both PVA/TN at once, for example =]). Instead, they prefer popular TN screens that have gaming and movies branding all over the place.
Yep, the advantages of VA panels you mention are true. What is not entirely true imo is that they were targeted mainly for multimedia purposes such as movies. Older PVA panels although having great colours and contrast were not so good if it comes to ghosting and motion stuff. This is why they were recommended for 'more static' purposes, such as 'amateur, semi-advanced photo editing', thanks to great colours and contrast mentioned before (at that time IPS panels weren't that common and affordable as they are today). It is thanks to the hardware development that we have high speed VA panels right now, as they were not recommended for rapidly changing content, well, untill now . The fact that there are some panels which are fine enough for it as you said, is another story, but then comes the price to pay for it, as you said yourself as well.
I should also ask, what price of VA panel is fortune to you, cuz as I said, it may differ, either beucase of your wallet or experience with panels, or both. (and I mean no disrespect here, just giving my opinion )
sience is a cold-hearted bitch with a 14-inch strap-on
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| Posted: Sun, 10th Nov 2013 17:22 Post subject: |
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reviewed in great detail here: http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/reviews/eizo_fg2421.htm
has impressive contrast ratio and black levels, courtesy of VA technology. great pixel response without overshoot. i want this in 27" size with 1080p (yeah yeah shut up).
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Werelds
Special Little Man
Posts: 15098
Location: 0100111001001100
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| Posted: Sun, 10th Nov 2013 17:36 Post subject: |
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| rgb#000 wrote: | reviewed in great detail here: http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/reviews/eizo_fg2421.htm
has impressive contrast ratio and black levels, courtesy of VA technology. great pixel response without overshoot. i want this in 27" size with 1080p (yeah yeah shut up). |
Your wish may be granted
I've been emailing with them and consolidating the feedback from reviews and users. They've got their big 2014-2015 development meeting this week. Size and resolution are the two most common desired changes, so looking at what they did with feedback on the 2331/2332/2333 and their respective prototypes, I'd say it's highly likely that those changes will make their way into the lineup. I hope I get to work with them for a long time, because their commitment is fantastic.
If I can, I will let you guys know here, but I may be required to go under NDA again which I'll respect |
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iNs
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