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LeoNatan
Banned
Posts: 73193
Location: Ramat Gan, Israel 🇮🇱
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 Posted: Fri, 23rd Mar 2012 11:23 Post subject: HTML5 WYSIWYG editor for quick mobile POC development? |
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Hi guys,
Looking to do some quick POC of UI in one of these mobile frameworks like PhoneGap. Looking for a quick drag and drop HTML5 editor that would allow me to do user interface (scroll views, table views, etc) and then deploy on mobiles. I don't want to do HTML+CSS coding myself. Basically looking for something like Interface Builder or VS form/xaml designer.
Anyone know of such editor? Can't find anything mildly interesting. Dreamweaver seems like a choice, but before I download, anyone can shed some light?
Thanks
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Werelds
Special Little Man
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| Posted: Fri, 23rd Mar 2012 11:44 Post subject: |
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I'm not going to comment on Dreamweaver other than CS4 was still a gigantic piece of crap. I've not bothered to even try CS5, as there's tons of better stuff out there. Blue Griffon might suffice for you, otherwise there's a number of Java-based ones like Eclipse, Netbeans, WebStorm/PhpStorm. I use the latter for my daily work, it's nice and fast (the only Java IDE I've ever tried that is not a slow bloated piece of crap), very good autocompletion - I can't comment on its WYSIWYG skills though, because I don't do that. It's made by JetBrains, who I'm sure you're familiar with Leo (ReSharper) 
That said: "scroll view"? "table view"? You don't want a HTML5 WYSIWYG editor, you want an editor for some HTML5/JS-based framework. HTML does not have "views". You can create tables, sure. You can create divs with an overflow (iframe = bad, warning you now!), sure. But these are not drop-in snippets that'll automatically work. There has to be some JavaScript or server-side language (PHP, Ruby, ASP) filling them and building them.
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LeoNatan
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Posts: 73193
Location: Ramat Gan, Israel 🇮🇱
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| Posted: Fri, 23rd Mar 2012 11:54 Post subject: |
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Yes, I am aware of JetBrains, they are the assholes that bought Resharper when it was free and made it paid. Edit: Shit, I mixed up between ReSharper and Reflector. Oops.
Yes, when I said "scroll" and "table" "views", I meant similar concepts to iOS and Android native development. There is no reason why a WYSIWYG editor cannot offer boilerplate HTML+CSS+JS for targeting mobile devices.
Otherwise, I don't see where the so called advantage of HTML5+CSS3+JS over native code comes from. I can throw an interface with Xcode and Eclipse much much much faster than having to write HTML+CSS from scratch (and having to deal with renderer differences on different platform), and I can write much better and faster code in native ObjC and Java. If I really want to, I can even write the model portion of my app in C++ and have it used with wrappers in both iOS and Android. Still would be much more optimized and elegant the JS shit.
So what is the point?
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| Posted: Fri, 23rd Mar 2012 12:00 Post subject: |
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| Posted: Fri, 23rd Mar 2012 12:01 Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | So what is the point? |
For people who wear hipster glasses, only use Macs, only know Javascript and Rails, and call themselves "hackers", to program shitty web-3.0-social-media-cloud-driven-location-based-industry-disrupting apps on mobile phones.
Sense Amid Madness, Wit Amidst Folly
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LeoNatan
Banned
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Location: Ramat Gan, Israel 🇮🇱
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| Posted: Fri, 23rd Mar 2012 12:03 Post subject: |
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| PumpAction wrote: | | http://www.codiqa.com/builder |
Thanks, but that is not something I'd consider a serious tool. What more, it really offers horrible controls. |
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Werelds
Special Little Man
Posts: 15098
Location: 0100111001001100
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| Posted: Fri, 23rd Mar 2012 12:07 Post subject: |
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Sencha is awesome! Tell your friend he gets free blowjobs if he's ever in the Bay Area!
Sense Amid Madness, Wit Amidst Folly
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LeoNatan
Banned
Posts: 73193
Location: Ramat Gan, Israel 🇮🇱
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| Posted: Fri, 23rd Mar 2012 12:08 Post subject: |
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| tainted4ever wrote: | | Quote: | | So what is the point? |
For people who wear hipster glasses, only use Macs, only know Javascript and Rails, and call themselves "hackers", to program shitty web-3.0-social-media-cloud-driven-location-based-industry-disrupting apps on mobile phones. |
No, but more and more apps are developed that way. I really wish to understand the point. I'd now consider myself an experienced iOS developer with particular "taste" for overcoming Apple silly restrictions in UIKit views. I would like to understand why would someone go a different route when the end result is way less impressive than native (or Java  ). I would like to be convinced. So far I am unimpressed. |
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LeoNatan
Banned
Posts: 73193
Location: Ramat Gan, Israel 🇮🇱
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| Posted: Fri, 23rd Mar 2012 12:12 Post subject: |
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| PumpAction wrote: | @Leo: Most apps are SO basic, I do not understand why people don't write them in HTML5 and deploy them on multi platform  |
Because even the simplest of apps is faster to write in native tools (at least iOS - Eclipse is horrible ). By the time you write your HTML tags, I have created a multiview storyboard. With a few lines, I have the data and can fill tables. With few more lines, I have huge animation framework which works very well and very fast. |
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| Posted: Fri, 23rd Mar 2012 12:13 Post subject: |
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| iNatan wrote: | | tainted4ever wrote: | | Quote: | | So what is the point? |
For people who wear hipster glasses, only use Macs, only know Javascript and Rails, and call themselves "hackers", to program shitty web-3.0-social-media-cloud-driven-location-based-industry-disrupting apps on mobile phones. |
No, but more and more apps are developed that way. I really wish to understand the point. I'd now consider myself an experienced iOS developer with particular "taste" for overcoming Apple silly restrictions. I would like to understand why would someone go a different route when the end result is way less impressive than native (or Java ). I would like to be convinced. So far I am unimpressed. |
The reason isn't that HTML5 + JS is "better". It's simply that there are a lot of web designers who don't know anything else moving over to mobile development due to extreme demand and insane funding ($5 million for shitty location-based meal sharing application made in Titanium over the weekend comes to mind)
It's a gold rush, and Objective C and Java are too "hard" for a lot of these people, so they stick with what they know.
 Spoiler: | DISCLAIMER: I AM NOT BIASED AGAINST DESIGNERS. I JUST DONT THINK YOU SHOULD CALL YOURSELF A "HACKER" AND ACT COOL IF YOU KNOW RAILS AND JAVASCRIPT AND JUST MADE A LOCATION-BASED WEB APP. |
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LeoNatan
Banned
Posts: 73193
Location: Ramat Gan, Israel 🇮🇱
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| Posted: Fri, 23rd Mar 2012 12:15 Post subject: |
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| Werelds wrote: | Oh there are mobile boilerplates alright, I just don't know of any WYSYWIG editors for them. I personally wouldn't use it, as it's a piece of cake to write that one line of code to generate the data table and then hit refresh in the browser. What did you expect? A HTML5 app that does not use JS? Doable, but that still requires a backend language to deal with the postbacks and shit.
I suggest you look at http://www.sencha.com/products/touch for an example. Their framework is by far the best of all. And I'm shamelessly promoting it because a friend of mine is the lead engineer for mobile |
I have looked at that, but I am still unimpressed if I have to write the HTML and CSS myself. Or with JS, whatever. |
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| Posted: Fri, 23rd Mar 2012 12:24 Post subject: |
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| Posted: Fri, 23rd Mar 2012 12:31 Post subject: |
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| PumpAction wrote: | Don't know what all the hate against CSS/HTML/JS based development is for. Shows me only that you don't have real experience in that area, as good HTML5 apps are equally complex as their native counter parts.
I don't have any experience with the xcode framework so I can't tell anything about that, but I know for a fact, that I'm much faster in writing a >simple!< HTML5 app than trying to achieve the same with native code for android 
And with JS Frameworks like jquerymobile, having to optimize for oh so many different platforms is long gone.
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As a note, I still develop a lot of native stuff. And I'd never call myself a hacker |
As Leo noted (and I agree) we can put together something much quicker in Eclipse + Xcode than in CSS/HTML/JS. For other people (yourself) the opposite applies. And as I said beforehand, it's all a matter of personal preference. However, going native is more flexible and powerful in the long run. It all depends on what you're trying to do.
One last thing: Last I tried jquerymobile, the implementation was shit. Last I heard, it still is shit. People tend to stick to Sencha. Only what I've heard; personally have very little experience doing Web/mobile stuff.
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LeoNatan
Banned
Posts: 73193
Location: Ramat Gan, Israel 🇮🇱
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| Posted: Fri, 23rd Mar 2012 12:33 Post subject: |
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No hate, just don't see the point. Of course JS can be complex, if both the native and web versions do the same (or as similar as possible), then the business would be equally complex. But I claim it is more complex to create these web apps instead of using native. Fine, one-page fart apps are easier on HTML5. (Exaggeration on purpose.) But what is the point?
And truly Xcode and VS are leaps ahead of Eclipse, in both controls (this is more iOS/WP7 vs Android) and ease of use.
I just don't see the point of manual UI creation. I can create UI manually in iOS but why would I?
No hate; as I said - I would like to be convinced.
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Werelds
Special Little Man
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| Posted: Fri, 23rd Mar 2012 12:48 Post subject: |
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| tainted4ever wrote: | | PumpAction wrote: | Don't know what all the hate against CSS/HTML/JS based development is for. Shows me only that you don't have real experience in that area, as good HTML5 apps are equally complex as their native counter parts.
I don't have any experience with the xcode framework so I can't tell anything about that, but I know for a fact, that I'm much faster in writing a >simple!< HTML5 app than trying to achieve the same with native code for android
And with JS Frameworks like jquerymobile, having to optimize for oh so many different platforms is long gone.
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As a note, I still develop a lot of native stuff. And I'd never call myself a hacker |
As Leo noted (and I agree) we can put together something much quicker in Eclipse + Xcode than in CSS/HTML/JS. For other people (yourself) the opposite applies. |
Yeah but both of you said that you do not have any real knowledge in HTML5 dev. If you'd know both equally good or bad (I claim that for myself) then I'd say that you'll be faster with HTML5 It all comes down to the purpose of course, much more than personal preference.
| tainted4ever wrote: | | One last thing: Last I tried jquerymobile, the implementation was shit. Last I heard, it still is shit. People tend to stick to Sencha. Only what I've heard; personally have very little experience doing Web/mobile stuff. |
Could you please clarify shit? Speed? Brower compatibility? Controls?
I've written a smartphone app at work (HTML5, jquerymobile based) and it works all right on Galaxy S2 (Native Samsung Browser, MIUI Browser (both webkit) and Opera Mobile(except for a small bug where opera wouldn't render the loading animation properly)) and iPhone.
Animation speed is of course always a problem with HTML5. If you use too much shadows: You are fucked. If you use too many gradients: You are fucked. If you use too many Alpha stuff: You are fucked. If you use too many round corners: You are fucked.
Basically you have to be very careful with all the CSS3 fanciness.
---
I'm porting the app now to the iPad and I'm re-writing the UI as the usecase is different for the iPad (customer self service vs shop placement of device). And it is already working, though main development happened entirely based on what I saw on my galaxy.
Last edited by PumpAction on Fri, 23rd Mar 2012 12:55; edited 1 time in total
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LeoNatan
Banned
Posts: 73193
Location: Ramat Gan, Israel 🇮🇱
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| Posted: Fri, 23rd Mar 2012 12:52 Post subject: |
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garus
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| Posted: Fri, 23rd Mar 2012 13:08 Post subject: |
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snip
Last edited by garus on Tue, 27th Aug 2024 21:23; edited 2 times in total
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| Posted: Fri, 23rd Mar 2012 13:19 Post subject: |
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... Don't know, I fend it totally meh. Maybe I should try writing it myself to see if I can be faster than him.
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| Posted: Fri, 23rd Mar 2012 15:42 Post subject: |
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| garus wrote: | | tainted4ever wrote: | | Quote: | | So what is the point? |
For people who wear hipster glasses, only use Macs, only know Javascript and Rails, and call themselves "hackers", to program shitty web-3.0-social-media-cloud-driven-location-based-industry-disrupting apps on mobile phones. |
Is Rails hipster now? 
I type everything by hand, and Twitter's Bootstrap supports mobile and responsive with its scaffolding. It provides all default CSS you need. You just have to form a basic HTML -> http://twitter.github.com/bootstrap/
Also horizontal scrolling: http://swipejs.com/ (obviously, open the page on a smartphone). Vertical scrolling is taken care of by browsers.
I use Bootstrap to prototype everything now. It's that easy. |
I have nothing against Ruby or Rails. I do have something against people who push it relentlessly like a religion, know nothing else, and expect to be taken seriously!
Also, <3 Twitter bootstrap.
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garus
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| Posted: Fri, 23rd Mar 2012 15:55 Post subject: |
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