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 Posted: Fri, 12th Dec 2008 13:46 Post subject: PC Game Piracy Examined |
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Koroushh Ghazi of TweakGuides has made an excellent article about pc game piracy out there..
take a read
http://www.tweakguides.com/Piracy_1.html
yes
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| Posted: Fri, 12th Dec 2008 14:02 Post subject: |
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Just took a quick look, seems like a good article. This quote I agree 100% with:
| Quote: | Back in the 1980s when my friends and I swapped copies of Amiga games, we didn't blame the copy protection for forcing us to do it, we didn't blame copyright laws, or assume it was our right to copy any game we want in the name of 'freedom', we didn't even make a point of openly advertising that we did it. We copied games for one simple reason: because we could.
Fast forward to the 21st century, and piracy has apparently somehow become a political struggle, a fight against greedy corporations and evil copy protection, and in some cases, I've even seen some people refer to the rise of piracy as a "revolution". What an absolute farce. Truth be told I have the greatest respect for the people who simply come out and just say that they pirate because they can, no more, no less. At least then I know I'm dealing with someone who's being honest and has got their head screwed on straight.
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| Posted: Fri, 12th Dec 2008 14:26 Post subject: |
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Yawn.
Yet another major site jumping on the "Piracy is killing the industry" bandwagon. All he's done for the last four pages is whine and bleat on about how games are great, how they cost eleventy billion dollars to make, how the developers pour their very souls into the games and how we filthy pirates are just out for the free meal ticket.
(Paraphrased of course...)
The "World of Goo" paragraph made me sick. 90% piracy rate? Bullshit. There's no fucking way in hell any publisher or developer could know that - and certainly not by looking at the SUPPORT statistics.
The bottom line is, with exception of what I firmly believe is the minority, a game WILL be bought if it is considered worth the money. Take a look at the ludicrously awesome and popular, INDIE, title; AudioSurf. That has been bought by the proverbial fucking BUCKETLOAD- Considerably more than it has been pirated. Why? Because it's everything a fucking game should be!! Cheap, fun, addictive, entertaining.
Yeah, I'm a pirate. I'll download whatever I want because I CAN -- but I will also go out and BUY the fucking thing because I WANT to. Not because I HAVE to in order to jump through some draconian fucking protection.
I'll read the rest of the article, but I hold no allusions as to it getting any better.
(Oops, almost forgot the scathing flaming I received the LAST time I said this. Umm.. ok... Flame on!  )
=Edit=
All I'm doing, as I sit here smoking my cig and drinking my coffee whilst reading the article, is saying "Oh fuck off. Fuck fucking off" repeatedly after each paragraph.
This one in particular is incensing to say the least - and is a MASSIVE insult to every PC gamer that has ever picked up a keyboard and mouse;
| Quote: |
Of greater concern is the fact that some games are now being deliberately delayed for the PC, due to explicit concerns that piracy of the PC version will undermine potential sales of the console version. As an example, Tom Clancy's EndWar was deliberately delayed for PC, the creative director Michael Plater saying quite simply that:
To be honest, if PC wasn't pirated to hell and back, there'd probably be a PC version coming out the same day as the other two. The level of piracy that you get with the PC just cannibalizes the others, because people just steal that version, piracy's basically killing PC.
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The whole "blame piracy for the reason why consoles get preferential treatment" is an old, long dead, horse - and continual beating is NOT going to bring it back to life. It's a throw away statement, a weak tool of a lazy mind.
No. The reason why consoles have higher sales is because every console gamer knows he only has to pay ONCE. Nobody likes being forced to pay multiple times just to play a game. You buy a console and then you're done for 4-5 years. Every game released for that machine will run, perfectly, greatly. No additional costs are required. Period. Ok, some DLC might come out and you'll have to pay a small premium (anywhere between 400 and 800 MSP, which is what? £4.25 and £8l.50 respectively)
Can the same be said for PCs? Fuck no. You buy and you buy and you buy and you buy. First you put the fucking thing together and it costs you 4-5 times what the best console on the market would cost you. Then you have the OS (which by itself is the cost of a console!) -- you finally pay $50 for a game and... oh. Shit. Your machine isn't good enough for it! Ok, so you go pay again. New motherboard, new graphics card, more RAM, faster CPU. YaY! The game runs! Ooooh, a new game is out! Surely my new machine should be able to run it now? Oh dear. Guess not. Another trip down to the hardware store.
THAT's why console sales are higher than PC. Not because of the fucking piracy issues, but because developers have become nothing more than lazy, greedy, bastards over the past five years.
Case in point;
| Quote: |
While a high-end gaming PC is many times more powerful than current generation consoles and you could in theory do significantly greater things on it, the downsides of the platform are having to support multiple generations of different hardware [and] driver interface layers.
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Translation: We're lazy.
My comment: Do your fucking job if you want our money!
Another thing too, either the moron writing this article is using any and all information to prove that piracy is killing the PC, or he simply can't get his facts straight.
| Quote: |
Some major games aren't even slated for a PC release at any point, the developers stating categorically that there won't be a PC version. Star Wars: Force Unleashed and Gears of War 2 are two prominent examples.
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LucasArts, publically, stated that there would be no PC release of "Force Unleashed" because of hardware difficulties. They stated that current generation of PCs simply aren't powerful enough to run the game..
So what is it guys? Is piracy the reason why you butt-fucked us, or is it hardware? Make up your damned minds!
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| Posted: Fri, 12th Dec 2008 15:02 Post subject: |
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isn't game quality or demos referred?
if we still had a shareware or atleast demo releases at the scale of what games used to have, where you really got a good idea if the game was worth the purchase, we would see a decrease in piracy AND game sales
most recent example i think is gta4
i was looking forward to it and thinking of even buying it, for the hype it's had
but now once i've played it i see it's just an ill concieved update with many old flaws present and some switched to new ones, which doesn't warrant a purchase - i already have gta3 on my shelf
or like flashpoint or graw where i wasn't even halfway through the campaign when the purchase button was pressed
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| Posted: Fri, 12th Dec 2008 15:05 Post subject: |
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How are the HW reqs the developers fault? Aside from badly optimized or badly ported games, a dev feels obligated to push the HW to the limit. How many times do you see in a thread here or on any other PC forum a comment like "this looks crap, I won't play it" because the game doesn't look like Crysis? Face it, PC gamers expect the best graphics and brag about it to console players, even though they don't want to upgrade every year. That's impossible. That's why I like Blizzard, they don't give a crap about the whiners who want top notch graphics, they still push the cartoony graphics for Diablo 3 because they know it'll sell alot more that way. My point being, the PC gamers themselves are guilty of the crazy HW requirements.
As for the influence of piracy on sales, there's no possibility of a decent discussion there. While I believe piracy has an influence on sales, I have no idea how big that is. None of us can know and I don't trust the figures given by the industry because I have no idea how such figures can be calculated. Comparing Indie devs to big devs is also just stupid. Developing a game these days costs millions, it's not fair comparing an indie game to that. Indie games imo also get much more understanding by gamers, even if it's mediocore most of the time.
What's killing PC gaming is not piracy or even the HW prices, it's the impossible expectations of PC gamers themselves. Go to any official forum, for any game, and it's all whining. Who would want to develop for a crowd like that? Sure you can call console gamers retards, kiddies or morons all you want, but atleast they can enjoy a good game too. Most PC gamers seem to expect greatness form every game out there, that's just impossible. Sometimes you just have to lower your standards a bit. Times are changing, change with it.
@above: with games getting bigger and bigger and the mandatory "openness" these days, a demo is less and less representative. A GTA4 demo would probably run great on decent systems, but the full game requires a highend PC.
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| Posted: Fri, 12th Dec 2008 15:10 Post subject: |
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| Mister_s wrote: |
What's killing PC gaming is not piracy or even the HW prices, it's the impossible expectations of PC gamers themselves. Go to any official forum, for any game, and it's all whining. Who would want to develop for a crowd like that? Sure you can call console gamers retards, kiddies or morons all you want, but atleast they can enjoy a good game too. Most PC gamers seem to expect greatness form every game out there, that's just impossible. Sometimes you just have to lower your standards a bit. Times are changing, change with it. |
I don't call them "console kiddies" or "retards" at all. I went out and joined them. I bought a 360 and I tell you something, bud; my 360 has garnered more game time out of me this year than my PC has. My standards aren't high (if you were referring to me, and if not.. I'll just make this a general statement) I just want something that works and doesn't require me to constantly upgrade my PC.
I know times are changing and I have changed; I'm no longer a chump. I won't buy a game anymore until I've tried it MYSELF and know that it runs great and without issue. Trust review sites? I think fucking not. Look at the GTA-IV PC previews! Every fucking reviewer gushed over the game, claiming it looked and ran great. Oh yeah? Reallllllly? Several thousand pissed off gamers disagree with you.
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| Posted: Fri, 12th Dec 2008 15:13 Post subject: |
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My post wasn't directed at you specifically. "You" in this case is the stereotypical, elitist PC gamer. And sadly, most PC gamers on teh internet seem to belong to that category.
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| Posted: Fri, 12th Dec 2008 15:16 Post subject: |
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I know, don't worry.. my posts aren't directed at anyone on here either .. more the industry in general and ESPECIALLY the author of that incredibly biased and short-sighted article.
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| Posted: Fri, 12th Dec 2008 15:31 Post subject: |
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Stardock and Blizzard is all that's needed to be said. EVERYBODY expects great games from Blizzard and they always deliver so I don't see why people should settle for less from other companies. Make good games or be gone..
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| Posted: Fri, 12th Dec 2008 15:33 Post subject: |
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| djaoni wrote: | | Stardock and Blizzard is all that's needed to be said. EVERYBODY expects great games from Blizzard and they always deliver so I don't see why people should settle for less from other companies. Make good games or be gone.. |
<3
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| Posted: Fri, 12th Dec 2008 15:38 Post subject: |
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| djaoni wrote: | | Stardock and Blizzard is all that's needed to be said. EVERYBODY expects great games from Blizzard and they always deliver so I don't see why people should settle for less from other companies. Make good games or be gone.. |
While I think Stardock is 'just' good, Blizzard is one of the best. Do you really believe every dev can and must be compared to Blizzard? That's like bashing every car because i't's not a Bentley. Totally unrealistic.
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| Posted: Fri, 12th Dec 2008 15:40 Post subject: |
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Nah, he's just making a point about good games. Make good games and they'll sell. Make shite ones and they'll sell badly.
A lot of pirates will never pay a penny more than buying their PC - but most people will honestly buy the games they love, either to support publisher (as in my case with Egosoft and Stardock) or to gain access to otherwise restricted content (as in my case with Bioware and games like CoD4/BF1942)
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Ispep
VIP Member
Posts: 4117
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| Posted: Fri, 12th Dec 2008 16:00 Post subject: |
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Lets talk about piracy on the PS3 for a change.
[...]
Yeah exactly, there isn't any - but I don't see Sony smiling about it. They've said in the past that piracy actually increases hardware sales and have the figures to show for it, but with them needing to make a profit off of software sales that's hardly ideal. Of course, if there was a larger install base for the PS3 then there'd be a larger audience to market and profit from. It'd also be more tempting for third party developers to set their stall out, whereas it's treated rather poorly at the moment.
Software sales, even for big first party titles, are hardly staggering either if the piracy argument is to be taken seriously. You'd expect significant improvements if piracy was such an overriding influence on sales but that's not the case.
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| Posted: Fri, 12th Dec 2008 16:05 Post subject: |
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That's all I've been saying for ages. If piracy was THAT bad, then we simply wouldn't see any new games .. it wouldn't be economically viable for publishers to put money into something that WILL equate to a loss due to piracy. No, instead we get broken, buggy, unoptimised, boring, messes that sell bad because - here's the shocker; they ARE bad - and then the excuse of "piracy is the reason we sold so little"
Reading that article has been one of the hardest things I've had to do in a very long time, simply because every sense was screaming "Just close the fucking thing!!" -- and I kept persevering. God, some of his info was taking "bullshit" to a whole new level. I especially loved the claims of "only 4% of games actually make a profit" What an absolute crock. Who the hell honestly believes that??
=Conclusion=
About the only thing I agreed with in the entire, agonisingly biased, article.. was this;
| Quote: |
Developers & Publishers
# Release more demos. Demos are becoming rarer these days, and this provides an excuse for piracy. Of course Crysis had a full demo for example and was still pirated to the tune of almost 1 million copies in 2008 alone, however a demo released before the final game will help some legitimate purchasers avoid the temptation of day-zero piracy, help manage user expectations about the final game, spread valuable word of mouth legitimately, and also help identify major bugs earlier, leading to quicker patches.
# Make copy protection and DRM methods clearer on game boxes and on game websites. Also publish a link to a page detailing the hardware with which the protection is incompatible (e.g. SecuROM & known DVD drive incompatibilities). Aside from deflating claims of a cover-up, this also allows customers to make a fully informed purchase and lowers support costs.
# Publish realistic minimum and recommended specs. Too many people assume that minimum specs are sufficient to play the game at low settings, when in reality minimum specs are usually sufficient to only barely run the game in an unplayable manner. Recommended specs should be published to a standardized level across all games, e.g. 'Below is the recommended hardware to achieve an average of 30FPS at 1280x720'.
# Provide a toll-free tech support line for DRM-related issues. It's completely unreasonable for legitimate purchasers to have to pay several dollars a minute to call tech support regarding issues that are no fault of their own, such as SecuROM disc check failures and known drive incompatibilities. Emailing tech support on these issues is also a complete waste of time due to vague stock answers, so email support also needs to be shored up.
# Stop delaying releases by region. Releasing games earlier in some regions is probably the single biggest incentive for people to pirate a game and contribute to day-zero piracy. Releasing games with different protection methods in different regions also allows pirates to simply attack the weakest link to achieve a working crack. For example the TAGES system in STALKER: Clear Sky went uncracked for two weeks after release, however the Russian StarForce version of the game's executable - which was released three weeks earlier in Russia - was cracked and used as a working crack for the non-Russian versions upon their release. So release all games globally at approximately the same time, and unify the protection method if you're serious about slowing down day-zero piracy.
# Lower prices on digital distribution. Instead of making sure that digital copies match retail copies in an effort to protect retail distribution, accept the transition to digital distribution by lowering prices to realistically reflect the lower costs, potentially increasing sales due to the greater convenience at a lower price.
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I honestly agreed with all those points.
1. Enough with the decisions to drop demos! Gamers will NOT go out and blindly pay $30-50 for a game if they don't even know;
A. How it runs.
B. If it's even any GOOD.
2. AGREED! For crying out loud, I actually ignored the Steam release - because I didn't have the net at the time - and went out and bought the retail box for HL2. Imagine my horror when I opened the box and saw, INSIDE, a red tag stating a net connection was REQUIRED for install and play.
3. Oh dear God, if only games did THIS more often!! PLEASE, for the love of all that is holy, publish REALISTIC requirements/recommendations.
4. I don't really have an opinion on this, as when a game is released State-side first.. I'll just import it if I want it (the majority of my PS2 RPG collection are NTSC imports) I'd prefer it if there were no region time distinctions, but having them doesn't stop me from getting the games I want.
5. Another hearty "AGREED!" from me. Digital Distribution, at its very heart, should be cheaper simply because you're not getting the fully product as you would do if you bought a retail game. No printed manual (though admittedly this is becoming a thing of the past now anyway) and no hard media, which necessitates a fast net line with no caps in order to play the game. Games acquired this way SHOULD be cheaper, damnit!
=Addendum=
There is one suggestion of my own that I wish to make;
Lower the price. Don't give me bullshit reasons about "our game cost $22m to make, so we're going to charge $50 a time" and "piracy is causing lost sales so now we have to increase prices in order to feed our families" -- because I'm smart enough to know a line when I'm fed one.
Your game cost $22m to make? Ok, it's a multiplatform game too.. so that means it's on the major consoles and, most likely, the PC too. Factor in the sales of Call of Duty 4 shall we? 3.7m on the 360, 390k on the PC, 10 on the PS3 (teehee, just kidding. I think the total was around 2.5m) Ok? That's recorded sales. Now let's do math.
Let's just round DOWN the price for arguments' sake and say that ALL versions only cost $30 per game, regardless of platform.
At the start of this year it had already sold 7 million copies. Oh dear. Can you see where this is going? Yes, Math 101. 7 million times 30. Wow. That's $210m. That was at the start of this YEAR, a full 12 months ago. The game made, from retail sales - as sales figures NEVER encompass Digital Distribution, two hundred and ten million dollars. If the game cost FIFTY million to make, it still made a cool profit of? Anybody? Yes, ONE HUNDRED AND SIXTY MILLION DOLLARS-- yet they're whining about lost profit? And that, guys and girls, is taking into account that I rounded down the price to $30 for the entire retail lifespan of the game. We ALL know that's bullshit and unrealistic.. the game was, for many months, $50 on both consoles and $40ish on the PC.
..... and who said publishers weren't greedy?
Oh yeah and by the way, I own CoD4 legitimately on both PC and X360. So much for piracy, eh?
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mYslead
Posts: 738
Location: Canada
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| Posted: Fri, 12th Dec 2008 16:46 Post subject: |
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the thing with the industry is that they all assume that people downloading their games on the internet also means that the same person would have dish out the 50$ on a retail copy.
which isn't the case.
i download video games, but i always end up buying them in the end if they live up to the hype, but most people just download video games, because they can't afford video games or just don't want to. so the industry numbers on how much money they lose are mostly false.
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| Posted: Fri, 12th Dec 2008 16:48 Post subject: |
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Not to mention that when they list "Crysis download 1 million times" as a backup for their "fact" that the game sold bad because of piracy, they NEVER take into account the enormous amount of people that downloaded it, installed it, saw how bad it ran and then uninstalled.
Most pirates are like magpies anyway, we'll download everything that gets released just because it's shiny and new. We'll install, play a mission, uninstall and then file away the ISO.
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| Posted: Fri, 12th Dec 2008 17:03 Post subject: |
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| sabin1981 wrote: | | Most pirates are like magpies anyway, we'll download everything that gets released just because it's shiny and new. We'll install, play a mission, uninstall and then file away the ISO. |
exactly
i download everything whose summary has the slightest hint of potential
above mentioned flashpoint is one that was a complete surprise for me
the thief series aswell (i'm allergic to fantasy, so i wouldn't have ever seen this gem if it wasn't for random piracy - now my favourite franchise ever)
| Quote: | | Consider this: nothing can prevent a thief from breaking into your house if they really want to. Those locks and security systems which homeowners install throughout their property can't stop someone from breaking a window to gain entry for example, or picking the locks, or in extreme cases, simply driving a stolen car through the front of the house. In fact it doesn't even require a 'hardcore' thief to overcome a property's protection. |
it's not that the door is locked or that pirates have an easy way in
it's that it's a giant nuclear bunker vault door with six houndred locks on it that crush your cats on days you're unlucky - whereas pirates have a neat man-sized hole right next to it.. and all they need is google to find it
also.. if the first days is all the devs supposedly care about.. why does biosuck and all others still have the same fuck-me-up-the-ass protection enabled?
the later flashpoint patches removed the protection altogether when there was no purpose for it anymore - the game was cracked, so what the fuck?
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| Posted: Fri, 12th Dec 2008 17:08 Post subject: |
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Aye, that whole "doors have locks!!! You don't cry about removing those!!!" analogy really got on my nerves. Door locks are only an inconvenience to thieves, and yeah, only a minor one at that. If you lose your key, it's your own damned fault! Does the same equate to piracy? Hell no.
DRM (the "door lock" in this instance) NEVER fucks over the pirate, not ever, but it's a constant inconvenience to legitimate users (StarForce has destroyed one of my optical drives and because of that, I would never touch a SF-protected game again. My brother bought me X2-The Threat for one Christmas and it sat on the fucking shelf for six months until a crack was out!) DRM is the logical equivalent of an OPEN DOOR to thieves and a CLOSED DOOR WITH LOCKS to legit users.
The author of that article is such a pretentious twat it makes my gums ache.
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| Posted: Fri, 12th Dec 2008 17:23 Post subject: |
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and the whole starforce text
'no evidence'?
depends on definition surely, but there's a huge motherload of negative user experiences
i too thought people might be exaggerating, but then i was dumb enough to buy silent hunter 3 to satisfy my submarine fetish, only for starforce not allowing me to play it, AND encountering frequent BSOD randomly
cleaning out SF fixed this, but left it's scars on the OS and my fucking wallet
haven't had any trouble with steam or securom though
steam even runs neatly within a sandbox, not having to mess up my OS with it
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| Posted: Fri, 12th Dec 2008 17:26 Post subject: |
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I'ts a piece of cake to create a pretty game.
if the way is hazy you gotta do the designing by the book you know you can't be original.
never use an original design concept the game could end up good.
if you do it by the book then you'll have a game.
we gotta have it made you know that I love profit margins.
finally it's time to make a profit.
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| Posted: Fri, 12th Dec 2008 17:50 Post subject: |
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| Mister_s wrote: | Just took a quick look, seems like a good article. This quote I agree 100% with:
| Quote: | Back in the 1980s when my friends and I swapped copies of Amiga games, we didn't blame the copy protection for forcing us to do it, we didn't blame copyright laws, or assume it was our right to copy any game we want in the name of 'freedom', we didn't even make a point of openly advertising that we did it. We copied games for one simple reason: because we could.
Fast forward to the 21st century, and piracy has apparently somehow become a political struggle, a fight against greedy corporations and evil copy protection, and in some cases, I've even seen some people refer to the rise of piracy as a "revolution". What an absolute farce. Truth be told I have the greatest respect for the people who simply come out and just say that they pirate because they can, no more, no less. At least then I know I'm dealing with someone who's being honest and has got their head screwed on straight.
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Heh, I agree with that as well. I remember way back in the day there was absolutely no talk of 'sticking it to the man' or being 'freedom fighters' or any of the shit. It was simply done because it was easy and could be done. hell, I remember some of my Computer teachers letting us copy classroom software.
At least we were honest about it back then. None of this moral nonsense that people hide behind today.
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| Posted: Fri, 12th Dec 2008 17:54 Post subject: |
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Oh I agree with that, absolutely. I don't see piracy as a revolution .. ffs, it's illegal people! No matter the spin you put on it, or the reasons for doing it, it's still illegal.
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LeoNatan
Banned
Posts: 73193
Location: Ramat Gan, Israel 🇮🇱
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| Posted: Fri, 12th Dec 2008 17:59 Post subject: |
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| sabin1981 wrote: | | Oh I agree with that, absolutely. I don't see piracy as a revolution .. ffs, it's illegal people! No matter the spin you put on it, or the reasons for doing it, it's still illegal. |
Laws are meant to be broken.
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| Posted: Fri, 12th Dec 2008 18:01 Post subject: |
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| Quote: | Heh, I agree with that as well. I remember way back in the day there was absolutely no talk of 'sticking it to the man' or being 'freedom fighters' or any of the shit. It was simply done because it was easy and could be done. hell, I remember some of my Computer teachers letting us copy classroom software.
At least we were honest about it back then. None of this moral nonsense that people hide behind today. |
true, but "because we can" is no better answer than "god did it"
it doesn't answer anything
the truth is that the entire capitalist structure is a compromise human beings are unsuited for
every single person within the system is quilty of corruption to a degree or another
it's not any more sustainable than communism
i buy immaterial shit like music, movies and games to support their creators, but i don't believe it to be a real future on that approach
much like i celebrate christmas while being an atheist
maybe some day...
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| Posted: Fri, 12th Dec 2008 18:02 Post subject: |
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| Mister_s wrote: |
What's killing PC gaming is not piracy or even the HW prices, it's the impossible expectations of PC gamers themselves. Go to any official forum, for any game, and it's all whining. Who would want to develop for a crowd like that? Sure you can call console gamers retards, kiddies or morons all you want, but atleast they can enjoy a good game too. Most PC gamers seem to expect greatness form every game out there, that's just impossible. Sometimes you just have to lower your standards a bit. Times are changing, change with it.. |
i so fucking agree with what you said right there.
PC gamers are the hardest to please.
So many whinners.
TBH pc gamers are more the Geek/Hardcore crowd.
If i were a game developer i wouldnt really want to make a game for the PC.
Have any of you been into a store lateley...
I went into Gamestaion and their pc section is so frickin small. They have 4 shelves full of PC games.
Even the psp has a bigger game section.
Hmmm i wonder where pc gaming will be in the next 4-5 years.
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| Posted: Fri, 12th Dec 2008 18:19 Post subject: |
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| sway187 wrote: | | Mister_s wrote: |
What's killing PC gaming is not piracy or even the HW prices, it's the impossible expectations of PC gamers themselves. Go to any official forum, for any game, and it's all whining. Who would want to develop for a crowd like that? Sure you can call console gamers retards, kiddies or morons all you want, but atleast they can enjoy a good game too. Most PC gamers seem to expect greatness form every game out there, that's just impossible. Sometimes you just have to lower your standards a bit. Times are changing, change with it.. |
i so fucking agree with what you said right there.
PC gamers are the hardest to please.
So many whinners.
TBH pc gamers are more the Geek/Hardcore crowd.
If i were a game developer i wouldnt really want to make a game for the PC.
Have any of you been into a store lateley...
I went into Gamestaion and their pc section is so frickin small. They have 4 shelves full of PC games.
Even the psp has a bigger game section.
Hmmm i wonder where pc gaming will be in the next 4-5 years. |
Heh, another good point. I read an interview with an old Fallout dev about Fallout 3 and this is pretty much what he said. People build up this imaginary 'reality' that can never be met and when it isn't met they become bitter and jaded and angry. I'll see if I can find the quote.
| Quote: | How does the fan base hinder/help the projects that you've worked on?
Man, that's a loaded question for me. Mage: The Ascension was a project where the fan base pretty much ruined my enthusiasm for the property. The prior developer had made several major story elements that came to a head right before I took over, and then the management at White Wolf wanted some new directions established. I also took a look at the property and thought about stuff that seemed inconsistent to me and how I wanted to fix it. When the revised edition of the game came out, though, it caused such a furor from a small but vocal element of the 'net that I actually got death threats and I even had someone posting crap on my webspace about what a horrible person I am as recently as just a few months ago, all with regards to M:tA. In a sense, fan expectations can be the worst killer for a property. The fans get this notion of the "perfect vision" of what the property should be like or about, and they have this idealized notion, and the reality can never compare to it. They get themselves in love with something that is not the "real" property but just their imaginary wishes, and they of course are angry when they are inevitably let down because reality can never match some nebulous imaginary concept. Plus, of course, one man's hash is another man's trash, so even if you please one person you piss off another. |
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crossmr
Posts: 2965
Location: South Korea
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| Posted: Fri, 12th Dec 2008 18:24 Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | The "World of Goo" paragraph made me sick. 90% piracy rate? Bullshit. There's no fucking way in hell any publisher or developer could know that - and certainly not by looking at the SUPPORT statistics. |
doesn't every copy go online to store the tower info?
it should be a simple matter of we got X copies going online to get tower info and Y copies legitimately sold.
Intel i5 6500 3.2Ghz, Geforce 970GTX 2GB, 16 GB Ram, Windows 7
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| Posted: Fri, 12th Dec 2008 18:25 Post subject: |
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| Sabin1981 wrote: | | THAT's why console sales are higher than PC. Not because of the fucking piracy issues, but because developers have become nothing more than lazy, greedy, bastards over the past five years. |
100% correct.
| Mister_s wrote: | | What's killing PC gaming is not piracy or even the HW prices, it's the impossible expectations of PC gamers themselves. Go to any official forum, for any game, and it's all whining. Who would want to develop for a crowd like that? Sure you can call console gamers retards, kiddies or morons all you want, but atleast they can enjoy a good game too. Most PC gamers seem to expect greatness form every game out there, that's just impossible. Sometimes you just have to lower your standards a bit. Times are changing, change with it. |
So are you suggesting that we stick our thumbs up our assess and accept the same old mediocrity? Criticism (especially constructive) leads to progress. If we were to all accept what we are given without any input, whining, or bitching, they would shovel shit our way until we choked to death on it. Also, I can't tell you the amount of times I've beta'd a game, discovered a pain in the ass "feature", bug, or glitch, went to the beta forums only to see many others bitch about the same thing, and that same feature, bug, or glitch, still be there on release day.
Developers simply do not care. Why? Because it has become industry standard to take the road which involves the least amount of work and thought, release buggy and non-functioning ports, and then do the same thing all over again in twelve months - all with absolutely no innovation. You ought to thank those that are vocal in their criticisms instead of seeing them as a hindrance.
I can never be free, because the shackles I wear can't be touched or be seen.
i9-9900k, MSI MPG-Z390 Gaming Pro Carbon, 32GB DDR4 @ 3000, eVGA GTX 1080 DT, Samsung 970 EVO Plus nVME 1TB
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If I think of all the wasted money.....
