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deelix
PDIP Member
Posts: 32062
Location: Norway
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Frant
King's Bounty
Posts: 24656
Location: Your Mom
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 Posted: Wed, 20th Apr 2022 13:59 Post subject: |
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Comparing Norway with Sweden is foolish. Sweden is twice the size with regard to population, it is connected to the continent via Denmark and the main hub for business. Obviously Sweden opened it's arms a bit too much when the wars in the middle east took place (some still are) and it is a problem. Joining EU opened up the borders for eastern european EU members as well. Norway, not being a member of EU, obviously don't have the same issues with free movement in Europe and thus that route for immigrants is closed.
I wonder why you're bitching about Sweden though, esp. focusing purely on muslims (and to some extent immigrants). You don't live here and thus it doesn't have an impact on you.
Perhaps I should mentioned what happened in 2020:
| Quote: | | On 29 August 2020, riots broke out in the Swedish cities of Malmö and Ronneby. After Swedish police prevented Rasmus Paludan, a Danish politician, from entering the country, far-right anti-immigration activists held protests and burned the Quran. |
Besides, it's not like Norway hasn't had it's own riots, protests etc. over the years. And then we have:
https://blogs.prio.org/2021/07/why-did-muslims-become-the-new-enemy-in-norway-and-europe/
Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn!
"The sky was the color of a TV tuned to a dead station" - Neuromancer
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| Posted: Wed, 20th Apr 2022 14:19 Post subject: |
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No point getting insulted over problems that are though, but Norway isn't all that much better. We've opened our arms too much also, and the incessant need to have some global relevance is slowly ruining our country. Norwegians have always been told how good we have it, how much money we have, but really the recent years it's stagnated so much that we're not that much better of than other modern western countries, yet politics are pushing more and more people into poverty. What's the reason though? Global politics? Greed? A mixture of both?
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couleur
[Moderator] Janitor
Posts: 14383
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| Posted: Wed, 20th Apr 2022 14:25 Post subject: |
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The reason, I think, is an aging society in a growth oriented pension system.
"Enlightenment is man's emergence from his self-imposed nonage. Nonage is the inability to use one's own understanding without another's guidance. This nonage is self-imposed if its cause lies not in lack of understanding but in indecision and lack of courage to use one's own mind without another's guidance. Dare to know! (Sapere aude.) "Have the courage to use your own understanding," is therefore the motto of the enlightenment."
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deelix
PDIP Member
Posts: 32062
Location: Norway
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| Posted: Wed, 20th Apr 2022 16:17 Post subject: |
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@Frant Because you dont quote anyone im not 100% sure who you are referring to, but im guessing its me. I dont bitch about Sweden in general, and yeah I guess the topic could be considered micro offensive or what not...
But to say comparing Sweden and Norway to be foolish is far from stupid. We are in a lot of ways way more similar (or at least used to be) than Norway/Sweden and Denmark. I know Sweden is more centralized than Norway, but we both have large cities with big issues, thats for srue!
And that we arent a part of EU doesnt matter as much as you think. Its more about internal politics. I hate even using the word... but if the "left" had their way back in 2016, Norway would look different today.
And, you saw my view on religion on the other page if you didnt know it before... And when its about a certain book being burned and to not say its about muslims and/or/.. islam is kinda hard.
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Frant
King's Bounty
Posts: 24656
Location: Your Mom
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| Posted: Fri, 22nd Apr 2022 04:12 Post subject: |
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| deelix wrote: | @Frant Because you dont quote anyone im not 100% sure who you are referring to, but im guessing its me. I dont bitch about Sweden in general, and yeah I guess the topic could be considered micro offensive or what not...
But to say comparing Sweden and Norway to be foolish is far from stupid. We are in a lot of ways way more similar (or at least used to be) than Norway/Sweden and Denmark. I know Sweden is more centralized than Norway, but we both have large cities with big issues, thats for srue!
And that we arent a part of EU doesnt matter as much as you think. Its more about internal politics. I hate even using the word... but if the "left" had their way back in 2016, Norway would look different today.
And, you saw my view on religion on the other page if you didnt know it before... And when its about a certain book being burned and to not say its about muslims and/or/.. islam is kinda hard. |
Don't get me wrong, I could definitely use a much stronger word than dislike about how I feel about Islam. That goes for all religions but esp. Islam. I've studied a lot about Islam and how it affects islamic countries and muslims. I've read plenty of the nonsense that is in the quran, I've studied hadiths (since the quran is a horrible and incoherent mess of a book and the hadiths are collections of texts that explain various passages of the quran) and tafsir (similar to hadiths but on a different scale) and I really "dislike" what I've read, more so than the christian bullshit I've read. What I REALLY hate in Islam is Islamism.
We do have freedom of speech but (and this is a big BUT) there can be consequences to that. Freedom of speech doesn't mean you can say or do everything whether it's defamation, setting someone up, instigating violence/violent riots (this one is what this thread is about) and so on since there are laws that criminalize those actions.
As I wrote before, burning the Swedish or Norwegian flag isn't illegal just like it's not illegal to burn a bible or the quran but it will most likely lead to negative consequences and can be classified as inciting riots/violence, esp. the way that danish nitwit did it. He planned it and did it to create the exact situation we ended up with. That's not freedom of speech, that's, according to the following defiinition: "as the acts of "organizing, promoting, encouraging, participating in a riot" and urging others to riot.". Obviously the reaction among the "insulted" rioters are ALSO illegal and truly stupid since the fallout from their violent reaction will spill over the majority of the muslim communities which did not parttake in any violent rioting.
I don't believe the majority of the predominantly young people that took part of the violence are religious, they're just discontent and undisciplined as well as disappointed with their situation, lashing out against society when they're provoked. It's a complex issue with many facets to it, some of it which is a failure of the host country and some of it the failure of their communities to instill values in the youth.
And I'm still half norwegian, I was born with norwegian citizenship since my mother was norwegian (my family on her side moved from Lofoten to Sweden in the late 60'ies since jobs were hard to come by in Norway at the time while Sweden didn't have enough people to employ) and I can become a norwegian citizen at any point just by getting an adress in Norway. I have actually thought about it many times since I've felt Sweden have become worse over the last 2-3 decades, esp. since the right wing conservative parties had the power and fucked up our welfare systems, privatized big chunks of health care and elder care and so on.
I don't really feel there's a point to become Norwegian again since the things are basically the same in broad strokes with some relatively minor differences. Besides, I know very few people in Norway, most of them through the internet. I do have family there but I haven't seen them since I pre-puberty when we used to go up to Lofoten or Mo i Rana where my family lived before moving to Sweden.
I guess I am a bit protective about Sweden, esp. since this thread makes it out like Sweden is worse than other countries when it comes to issues with immigrants. The only islamist terrorist attack in Sweden that have caused casualties was a lone terrorist (2010) who blew himself up. Nobody else was hurt.
In 2017 a Soviet born Uzbek and lone lunatic drove a truck through a busy street in Stockholm and into a store, killing 5. As opposed to other similar terrorist attacks in Europe the attack has not been claimed by ISIS or any other terrorist group.
The biggest problem Sweden has isn't islamism though, it's criminal gang violence which has got nothing to do with islam. While they're predominantly made up of immigrants (first, second, third and these days also fourth generation immigrants), they're mainly fighting rival gangs over money, revenge etc. like other criminal organizations around the world. Sweden hasn't found a way to deal with them.
Sweden Democrats, the right wing anti-immigrant party in Sweden have begun losing support during the last ~2 years and to change that trend he held a press conference with a proposition that is just... stupid:
| Quote: | | Jimmie Åkesson: Expel entire families from Sweden even if only one family member doesn't behave/commit crimes. |
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A ton of questions was thrown at him about the proposition that poked so many holes that there was nothing left. He avoided answering any of those questions and just said "
An investigation will take place that examines the details." to those questions.
Anyway, I agree that the violent riots are stupid and bad. However, it's a bit over-the-top to create a thread about it without writing about what caused them, ie. a plot by a danish islamophobe/anti-immigrant activist to consciously provoke and create said riots for political reasons. There are always two sides of a coin. At least you didn't post this under world news.
As for links:
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/4/20/sweden-believes-foreign-actors-behind-riots-over-quran-burning
https://www.brusselstimes.com/217971/easter-holiday-in-sweden-rocked-by-violent-riots-after-danish-politician-burns-the-koran
https://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/sweden-sees-foreign-countries-playing-role-recent-riots-84188915
Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn!
"The sky was the color of a TV tuned to a dead station" - Neuromancer
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| Posted: Fri, 22nd Apr 2022 05:18 Post subject: |
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Biggest problem with norway and sweden is the cucky attitude of the natives. We have to save them and if they turn to gang behavior then somehow its our fault. Should be no issue deporting dissidents, but we even import terrorists. I hope Sweden got a wakeup call after this last incident, but i doubt it. People will probably blame swedes and the system for not providing them enough free iphones, cars and houses.
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Frant
King's Bounty
Posts: 24656
Location: Your Mom
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| Posted: Sun, 1st May 2022 18:25 Post subject: |
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And Rasmus Paludan is at it again. This time it should be obvious that he's a far right nutjob that goes out of his way to provoke muslims beyond reason:
| Quote: | Ramsus Paludan appeared outside the mosque in Uppsala to burn a Koran.
Several people then chased him away.
- We are on site to deal with a disturbance, says Tobias Ahlén Svalbro, the police's press spokesperson.
The police are on site with several units at the mosque in Uppsala. Rasmus Paludan, party leader of the right-wing nationalist right-wing Tight Course, has been on the scene to burn a Koran.
Several people are said to have gathered outside and Paludan fled the scene by car.
Photos from the scene show a man jumping up and stomping on the car's roof before driving away. |
Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn!
"The sky was the color of a TV tuned to a dead station" - Neuromancer
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| Posted: Sat, 7th May 2022 10:42 Post subject: |
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vurt
Posts: 13876
Location: Sweden
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| Posted: Sat, 7th May 2022 10:53 Post subject: |
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Ramsus Paludan, Dan Park.. they are clearly provocateurs, and they will appeal to the far right because yes they don't particularly like muslims or islamists and many on the far right are provocateurs themselves, it's why it appeals to them. but there are many people who don't like islamists.
provocation can be a good way to take the temperature, check what happens on all fronts - what level of extremism are we at currently, are there measures we need to take, what does government/justice system/the offended party do in this situation?
But i don't think you need to do it weekly or anything, that's just attention seeking and hate mongering for the sake of it, it serves no purpose, it will only prove those who are offended right.
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zTurbo
Posts: 654
Location: 9th Circle of Hell
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| Posted: Sat, 7th May 2022 13:51 Post subject: |
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vurt
Posts: 13876
Location: Sweden
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| Posted: Sat, 7th May 2022 13:56 Post subject: |
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Yes, pretty evident that they were "triggered".
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zTurbo
Posts: 654
Location: 9th Circle of Hell
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| Posted: Sat, 7th May 2022 14:11 Post subject: |
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when you have a bastion of freedom like sweden facing religion based riots coz some jackass is burning that, whilst in other european countries nothing would happen such as in poland, then it's time to realize something is seriously going wrong and must be addressed before it becomes uncontrollable, ofc they can always choose to ignore the problem and carry on...gg gl
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vurt
Posts: 13876
Location: Sweden
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| Posted: Sat, 7th May 2022 14:33 Post subject: |
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have you tried burning the Quran in Poland? you have 0.1% muslims, we have around 8% (using wikipedia)... maybe that's a reason nothing much happens.. here they can rather easily take down the police, which was proven now.
Sweden has no interest in slowing down muslim immigration, or stop rewarding them greatly for getting a shit ton of kids (many which will join gangs). so yes, it's doomed to get nasty. muslim immigrants can be very extreme too (becoming islamists). i guess if you come to a country which feels very foreign and nothing like you're used to its easy to become very patriotic and overly political where you stick to your own, because its what you know and what you feel safe with. When this group grows really large and is getting angrier and angrier it's time for the government to act and show that we don't tolerate it, it seems pretty clear that this is the development they're after and there certainly are some crass political benefits for them to do so.
The police here will this summer concentrate on Swedes playing loud music in cars and illegal water scooter driving.. no word what they're going to do about gangs or real criminals. Our government have worked hard for years to turn the entire Police force into cucks, making sure they're worthless for anything other than petty crime. There are funny videos of 1 immigrant easily taking down 3 police women and 1 man lol
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deelix
PDIP Member
Posts: 32062
Location: Norway
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vurt
Posts: 13876
Location: Sweden
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| Posted: Sat, 7th May 2022 17:05 Post subject: |
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It's no longer legal.. Loud music in the car in a densely populated area can give you a ticket yes...
https://morgonposten.se/2022/05/05/polisen-kraftsamlar-i-dalarna-under-sommaren-for-att/
Police claims "the general public is really worried about the safety of water scooters in the lakes"  all while gangs are growing, rape, murder.. no, we are worried about water scooters. of course!
Also from the article:
"youth playing loud music in the Swedish countryside who with their sound terror are a societal issue, it's important to act so that they don't get marginalized."
so if you're playing loud music in the car you are likely to become an absolute outcast of society, similar to a gang member etc, someone who will have a hard time adapting to a normal life. Very believable indeed!
Swedish totally corrupt justice system in a nutshell, clearly orders from the government to up the statistics of "criminal" Swedish youth, so when comparing statistics to immigrant youth (rapes, murders, drugs - actual crime) it will look very similar and Swedish youth can be rendered "just as bad, no difference in the statistics when comparing the raw numbers".
It's how the government works to justify what is happening, not with complete lies but with half-truths.
According to the article it's a forceful effort with police all the way from Stockholm coming to help 
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zTurbo
Posts: 654
Location: 9th Circle of Hell
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| Posted: Sat, 7th May 2022 19:39 Post subject: |
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vurt
Posts: 13876
Location: Sweden
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| Posted: Sun, 8th May 2022 16:05 Post subject: |
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yes? antisemitism will be a problem when there are many muslims, not exactly unexpected.
Jews in Malmö moved out, their cemetery desecrated, harassments.. muslims throwing stones at them if wearing their kippah etc...
media was mostly very quiet about it, most political parties too, racism is ok if muslims do it to jews, or swedes, it won't be acknowledged, they'll just call it something else, sweep it all under the rug, or blame it on them being poor or being a particularly "vulnerable group" who must be forgiven for whatever they do.
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vurt
Posts: 13876
Location: Sweden
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deelix
PDIP Member
Posts: 32062
Location: Norway
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| Posted: Tue, 10th May 2022 01:22 Post subject: |
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WaldoJ
VIP Member
Posts: 32678
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| Posted: Tue, 10th May 2022 02:06 Post subject: |
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Well now I won't be visiting Sweden anytime soon.
If shit flinging is a daily occurence, count me out.
| Sin317 wrote: | | I win, you lose. Or Go fuck yourself. |
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Ankh
Posts: 23354
Location: Trelleborg
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| Posted: Tue, 10th May 2022 05:44 Post subject: |
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| WaldoJ wrote: | Well now I won't be visiting Sweden anytime soon.
If shit flinging is a daily occurence, count me out. |
That's something you won't see/notice unless you are unlucky. 50 years of living in Sweden and it's not exactly on daily basis you see these shitty things. Infact, i can't even remember when i last did.
shitloads of new stuff in my pc. Cant keep track of it all.
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couleur
[Moderator] Janitor
Posts: 14383
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vurt
Posts: 13876
Location: Sweden
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| Posted: Tue, 10th May 2022 07:28 Post subject: |
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I love how they seem to be able to grab it on command. Does it just fall out, like a vending machine?
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vurt
Posts: 13876
Location: Sweden
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| Posted: Tue, 10th May 2022 07:32 Post subject: |
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