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 Posted: Sat, 10th Sep 2005 02:33 Post subject: ummm.. |
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| Quote: | | You may have those things in us but they dont do much good, why else does us have the most poor and homeless in the world? |
Again, untrue.. Having been on both sides of the healthcare situation, I can honestly say that my level of treatment was no different.. You've never been to the US, so you're just spouting bullshit at this point.
Also, where's your proof that the US "has the most poor and homeless in the world"? Got an article to back it up?
| Quote: | | Better that everyone helps pay for school and mediccare then you get a debt for life becouse of school. |
Yeah.. Much better to just give all your money to the gov't and hope they do the right thing with it.. Much better to be less self-reliant and just let the gov't pay for everything.
Again, if you've never been here and all you know about the US is what you see on TV, you dont know shit..
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Macknu
Posts: 636
Location: Sweden
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| Posted: Sat, 10th Sep 2005 09:20 Post subject: Re: ummm.. |
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| derwood wrote: | | Quote: | | You may have those things in us but they dont do much good, why else does us have the most poor and homeless in the world? |
Again, untrue.. Having been on both sides of the healthcare situation, I can honestly say that my level of treatment was no different.. You've never been to the US, so you're just spouting bullshit at this point.
Also, where's your proof that the US "has the most poor and homeless in the world"? Got an article to back it up?
| Quote: | | Better that everyone helps pay for school and mediccare then you get a debt for life becouse of school. |
Yeah.. Much better to just give all your money to the gov't and hope they do the right thing with it.. Much better to be less self-reliant and just let the gov't pay for everything.
Again, if you've never been here and all you know about the US is what you see on TV, you dont know shit.. |
That about medcare is just what i heard so it might be untrue. But that there is alot of poor and homeless you cant deny, that us got more of them then other well going countrys is a guess from experience since ive seen alot more when i was there then other places. Crime is also proof (not all crimes ofcourse) on poorness.
Well the thing is their doing the right thing with most of it, thats why school and hospitals/medicin is free. And if we were doing the wrong thing why else whould sweden (and rest of scansinavia thas does the same) been time after time been procaimed best country in the world to live in? Usa usually at around 20th place and its americans who investigate to find witch country is best.
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SycoShaman
VIP Master Jedi
Posts: 24468
Location: Toronto, Canada
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| Posted: Sat, 10th Sep 2005 09:44 Post subject: |
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| drakgon wrote: | | stoner(and anything else he can get his hands on)shaman wrote: | | pretty stoned dude...oh wait, i didnt write that.... |
hahaha 
| Quote: | | But still hospitalcare aint the best for those without good insurance, atleast thats whats heard from poor americans. |
well it aint so bright for about 75% of the Brits now either considering only really rich ppl afford good private treatment away from the beurocratic socialist piece of shit system we have here. |
haha not even. Im selective still  pretty fuckin gone right now tho, wish I could figure out the irc shit...lol |
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| Posted: Sat, 10th Sep 2005 10:15 Post subject: cough |
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| Quote: | | That about medcare is just what i heard so it might be untrue. |
It is..
| Quote: | | But that there is alot of poor and homeless you cant deny, that us got more of them then other well going countrys is a guess from experience since ive seen alot more when i was there then other places. Crime is also proof (not all crimes ofcourse) on poorness. |
Theres poor and homeless in every country around the world.. Does the US have more? I don't know.. We have more people.. The enitre New York metropolitan area has twice the population of all of Sweden.. How can you make a valid comparison by just looking around???
Crime isnt necessarily caused by poor people because they're poor. Yes, we have higher crime, largely due to the availability of guns here. In Sweden, only criminals have guns, which means you cant defend yourself. Another place where our countries differ in opinion.. Personally, I'd rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6. BTW, heres a link comparing crime in Sweden to crime in NewYork: http://www.stefangeens.com/000422.html
| Quote: |
Well the thing is their doing the right thing with most of it, thats why school and hospitals/medicin is free. And if we were doing the wrong thing why else whould sweden (and rest of scansinavia thas does the same) been time after time been procaimed best country in the world to live in? Usa usually at around 20th place and its americans who investigate to find witch country is best. |
We'll see how things are in 10 years or so.. See, right after WW2, there were a lot of babies born. They were called the baby-boomer generation. People have lots of sex during and right after war.. After about 20 years or so, the birthrate dropped off..
Now, those baby-boomers are approaching retirement age. That means they wont be paying taxes into your social programs, and will be drawing a fair amount of money from those same social programs. And, since there are less workers to cover the costs.. Guess what will happen?? Your already sky high tax rates are going to increase even more. http://www.aph.gov.au/library/pubs/CIB/2003-04/04cib01.htm
We're starting to see the effects of it here with Social Security. Again, free is very very nice, but There Aint No Such Thing As A Free Lunch.. Someone, somewhere, somehow will have to come up with that money to make up the difference.
And again, wheres the link to back up the statement that Americans think Sweden/Scandinavia are better/best places to live?
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Macknu
Posts: 636
Location: Sweden
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| Posted: Sat, 10th Sep 2005 14:49 Post subject: |
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Nice to finelly have a smart american here who can do more then give proof on the american stupidity and ignorance as weducks did.
| Quote: | Quote:
But that there is alot of poor and homeless you cant deny, that us got more of them then other well going countrys is a guess from experience since ive seen alot more when i was there then other places. Crime is also proof (not all crimes ofcourse) on poorness.
Theres poor and homeless in every country around the world.. Does the US have more? I don't know.. We have more people.. The enitre New York metropolitan area has twice the population of all of Sweden.. How can you make a valid comparison by just looking around???
Crime isnt necessarily caused by poor people because they're poor. Yes, we have higher crime, largely due to the availability of guns here. In Sweden, only criminals have guns, which means you cant defend yourself. Another place where our countries differ in opinion.. Personally, I'd rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6. BTW, heres a link comparing crime in Sweden to crime in NewYork: http://www.stefangeens.com/000422.html |
Nice link, we got huge problem with rapes and abuse here no doubt (and money trucks get robbed alot to) but most of that are crimes people get over so i dont se it as to bad crimes (not saying being raped is nice) in difference from murder where you.. well you die, cant get over it, it just ends. But never thought we had as high crimerates on those points as us did, thx for info.
But i still think that everyone can own a gun is just wrong, it just leads to more misery. For example if someone robs a store here in sweden, just cooperate with rober and he gets on his way and no one is harmed, he usually gets cought or otherwise no one really lost any money couse of insurance. In us there might be a guy who tries to be hero couse he have a gun and what happens? Deaths and misery.
| Quote: | We'll see how things are in 10 years or so.. See, right after WW2, there were a lot of babies born. They were called the baby-boomer generation. People have lots of sex during and right after war.. After about 20 years or so, the birthrate dropped off..
Now, those baby-boomers are approaching retirement age. That means they wont be paying taxes into your social programs, and will be drawing a fair amount of money from those same social programs. And, since there are less workers to cover the costs.. Guess what will happen?? Your already sky high tax rates are going to increase even more. http://www.aph.gov.au/library/pubs/CIB/2003-04/04cib01.htm
We're starting to see the effects of it here with Social Security. Again, free is very very nice, but There Aint No Such Thing As A Free Lunch.. Someone, somewhere, somehow will have to come up with that money to make up the difference. |
Didnt say things were free, atleast i dont think i did. But that everyone helps pay is something i like, i have nothing against our taxes as long as it helps in right way. Right way is anyone can go high education (university) without paying tens of thousands of dollars each year, you get to and from school without paying until 12th grade and same with food in school, anyone can get good hospital care and medicin needed for free, people who cant afford what they need can get it for free (glasses, bus tickets, food, rent, clothes etc).
| Quote: | And again, wheres the link to back up the statement that Americans think Sweden/Scandinavia are better/best places to live?
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Sry but i cant find the link to it right now, if i find it i will post it. But it was something made by some american company/university about where its best to live for all people. Scandinavian was seen as best couse of the system we got with school, hospital and social insurance. Usa was at around 16th i think and sweden, norway, danmark and finland were all at about top 5.
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| Posted: Sat, 10th Sep 2005 22:11 Post subject: |
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Baleur
Posts: 2343
Location: South Sweden
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| Posted: Sat, 10th Sep 2005 22:31 Post subject: Re: USA's economy in a nutshell |
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| javlar wrote: | | Baleur wrote: |
School. ok so in sweden you gotta get to your school yourself, no school buses at all. |
Yes we do, depends where you live though. During grades 1 to 9 as well as highschool (gymnasiet) the schools have to pay for bussing the students to school if they live more than 2.5 km from the school-area. It might be different in some countys (kommuner  ) but i dont think so.
Nice rant btw Baleur.
My two cents on USA:
USA is the same as a really bratty rich person. You hate them but you want all the cool stuff they have. 
But honestly you cant generalize about America, it would be the same as generalizing about the whole of Europe. It's too big. The two main reasons alot of people "hate" America are:
1. The general idea of the country is that which is portrayed in movies and tv-shows.
2. Its politics which the people themselves really can't do much about.
All the emo-kids who are saying stuff like "Man i hate americans" dont know shit. The country itself has alot of flaws but so does any other country. But generalizing about the people is just silly.
Oh and Baleur i dont mean that you're generazling about the people. I see your point and it's pretty good. |
wow i didnt know this topic would grow so large lol =)
no i definetly dont hate americans or usa, no no no i dont want you to get the wrong impression.
I am one of those people who LOVE technology, power, and capitalism. Therefor i dont hate USA at all, i just think its really sad that a country of such potential (yes believe it or not, potential, not post-potential) are wasting it on idiotic people that runs it, and idiotic rules.
CPU: Intel Core 2 Duo E6600 RAM: 4gb Kingmax DDR2 800mhz Video: Asus GeForce 250GTS 1gb Sound: Asus Xonar.
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Macknu
Posts: 636
Location: Sweden
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| Posted: Sat, 10th Sep 2005 23:39 Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | The American government does do bad things. As do all governments. |
Agree fully on that, only problem is when usa does bad things it hurts mostly other people then them self. If sweden goverment does bad it hurts only our self and were punished for making bad choice in the election, mostly no other country have to pay for our mistakes.
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drakgon
Posts: 1167
Location: England
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| Posted: Sun, 11th Sep 2005 01:15 Post subject: |
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Bad is in the eye of the beholder.
And remember some American corporations are as big as most countries, they do bad and that is not the US governments fault. Is just big businesses.
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| Posted: Fri, 16th Sep 2005 10:57 Post subject: |
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| Esel_Gesi wrote: | | Do you think that if you are unconcious from something, lets say a car accident, that they wont treat you at the hospital in the USA until you wake up and prove that you have insurance or show them your bank statement proving you have the cash to pay it? |
100% false. Any hospital in the US will provide emergency services no questions asked, even to illegal aliens. It's the law. And if you're poor enough, (make less than about 10,000 a year where I live) or elderly, you get free excellent health care. Like someone said, you pay one way or the other, nothing is free. Simple economics shows if the price gets close enough to free you'll have infinite demand. Free health care for 300 million citizens maintaining the current level of quality, would cost trillions of dollars per year and you'd need to drastically raise taxes.
The public education system here below the university level is poor but I have no complaints about the health care. Best in the world imo.
I do not hail Caesar
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nouseforaname
Über-VIP Member
Posts: 21306
Location: Toronto, Canada
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| Posted: Fri, 16th Sep 2005 17:19 Post subject: |
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It's definitely not the best in the world. I can attest to that.
"Techniclly speaking, Beta-Manboi didnt inject Burberry_Massi with Benz, he injected him with liquid that had air bubbles in it, which caused benz." - House M.D
"Faith without logic is the same as knowledge without understanding; meaningless"
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nouseforaname
Über-VIP Member
Posts: 21306
Location: Toronto, Canada
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| Posted: Fri, 16th Sep 2005 17:26 Post subject: |
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Just wondering ... because we're starting to lean towards a parallel system here ... and they always say 'well the UK has both' ... any research I can find shows that if you introduce a public/private system then you basically make a good system for those who can pay for private and longer wait times and shittier service for those who don't want to or can't pay and elect to go with the public system. The kicker is we're still going to be paying the exact same amount of money for this public system that all of a sudden is much worse.
http://www.41.cupe.ca/www/healthcareprivatization/a4315f24b6255a
Mythbusters on Canadian healthcare and other issues (like malpractice etc) provided by the Canadian Health Services Research Foundation:
http://www.chsrf.ca/mythbusters/index_e.php
asus z170-A || core i5-6600K || geforce gtx 970 4gb || 16gb ddr4 ram || win10 || 1080p led samsung 27"
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SycoShaman
VIP Master Jedi
Posts: 24468
Location: Toronto, Canada
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| Posted: Sat, 17th Sep 2005 04:32 Post subject: |
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| nouseforaname wrote: | Just wondering ... because we're starting to lean towards a parallel system here ... and they always say 'well the UK has both' ... any research I can find shows that if you introduce a public/private system then you basically make a good system for those who can pay for private and longer wait times and shittier service for those who don't want to or can't pay and elect to go with the public system. The kicker is we're still going to be paying the exact same amount of money for this public system that all of a sudden is much worse.
http://www.41.cupe.ca/www/healthcareprivatization/a4315f24b6255a
Mythbusters on Canadian healthcare and other issues (like malpractice etc) provided by the Canadian Health Services Research Foundation:
http://www.chsrf.ca/mythbusters/index_e.php |
Its like that cause our government doesnt think for its self...they look to the americans and british as examples...ive been saying it for years, we need someone who truly personifies Canadian culture and values. We have the best of both (well 3) worlds really - our major influencer's are the US, UK and France
If only someone would step up and actually do what the canadian ppl want rather than what they think is correct ie cutting the military...dont they fuckin realize strong military = security = foreign and domestic investment.....?....dumb fucks |
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| Posted: Sat, 17th Sep 2005 05:01 Post subject: |
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| AnimalMother wrote: | | It's definitely not the best in the world. I can attest to that. |
Do you have evidence or an expert opinion ? I disagree. If not the US, who has the best quality of medical care available ?
Other countries may have better preventative medicine and you could make an arguement against the cost but the equipment, training, and level of skill here is the most advanced in the world. As long as you have the money, health insurance or qualify for public benefits you'll get better care here than anywhere else, especially if you need surgery or advanced drugs/therapies. South Korea and others are making inroads with cloning and genetic technology but it will be a decade before there are new treatments based on their research..
I do not hail Caesar
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drakgon
Posts: 1167
Location: England
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| Posted: Sat, 17th Sep 2005 13:00 Post subject: |
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he was talking about the uk.
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| Posted: Sun, 18th Sep 2005 05:01 Post subject: |
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I have an educated opinion, as if that counts for anything over the internet.
Considering the USA spends much more on health care per capita then any other country, they are still the only country where asthma mortality rates have been increasing over time.
Plus, if we compare their standard of healthcare by quantifiable standards they are in no way better then australia, canada, new zealand or the UK. I have also been witness to treatment for a friend in america, and the way he was treated was abysmal.
There is no specific country which has the best healthcare in the world, but if there was it definitely wouldn't be the US.
"Techniclly speaking, Beta-Manboi didnt inject Burberry_Massi with Benz, he injected him with liquid that had air bubbles in it, which caused benz." - House M.D
"Faith without logic is the same as knowledge without understanding; meaningless"
Last edited by AnimalMother on Sun, 18th Sep 2005 05:35; edited 3 times in total
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javlar
Posts: 1921
Location: Kalmar, Sweden
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| Posted: Sun, 18th Sep 2005 05:33 Post subject: |
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| schaden wrote: | | As long as you have the money, health insurance or qualify for public benefits you'll get better care here than anywhere else |
Do you actually think before your fingers press the buttons on your keyboard?
Gaming - Intel Quad Q9450 @ 3.2GHZ | Radeon HD 4870 X2 2GB | SB X-Fi | PC6400 8GB | 300GB Velociraptor
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Server - Athlon 64 X2 4200+ | Radeon HD 3450 | SB X-Fi | PC5300 2GB | 4TB+ total space
XBOX360 Gamertag: javlarmate |
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| Posted: Sat, 1st Oct 2005 00:19 Post subject: Re: Hmmm... |
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| Macknu wrote: | | derwood wrote: | | Quote: | | Health care, you'll die in the US if you dont have money, because you wont afford the treatment, whereas in sweden all you need is a life insurance, and you'r set to go for 100 years. |
Completely untrue. In the US, if you dont have money, you will still get treatment. If your income level is below a certain level, the hospital and doctors will write off the cost of the procedure. If you need a prescription, all pharmaceutical companies have low income programs.
| Quote: | | School in USA, ok now you do get rides to school, but are they free? I dunno so i wont comment, but i will definetly comment on this, your children have to BUY the food in the school, and since the school actually SELLS food, to very very many hungry children, what children want = big bucks. |
Nothing is free.. I'll touch on that in a few minutes.. Not all schools offer free busing. A lot of it depends on how close you live to the school.
There are also free lunch programs for low income familiies. Those programs have been in place for 40+ years now. As to the quality of the food. I agree with you that it could be better. However, what do you think a kid is going to buy faced with good old home cooked food or McDonalds?? Schools offer both types of food these days. Its the kids choice to blow their money on the junk food..
Now, as to the free health care and free food in school and the other free things the Swedish gov't offers.. Where do you think that money comes from? It doesnt grow on trees. Not even in Sweden. It comes from the amazingly high taxes that you pay in Sweden, which is the most highly taxed country in the world. So, you're saying free is a good thing. However, There Aint No Such Thing As A Free Lunch. If you got it for free, someone, somewhere paid for it. Whether through taxes or donations or out of the kindness of their hearts, it cost someone some money somewhere. http://moneycentral.msn.com/articles/tax/basics/9196.asp
Now, which way is better? I guess that depends on your point of view.. I disagree with the socialist system, personally. I'm not even going to fall for the 'which country is better' flamebait. You've probably never been to the US, and I've never been to Sweden. So, all we know about each others' countries is what we see on TV and read on the net. Most of which is bullshit anyways. A valid opinion cannot be reached unless one visits that country and spends some time living there. |
You may have those things in us but they dont do much good, why else does us have the most poor and homeless in the world? |
Grab a map. Look at the country south of the USA. Then look at all the other countries directly below that country. Do the math on standards of living in the various countries and then you'll find the answer to your question.
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| Posted: Sat, 1st Oct 2005 00:26 Post subject: |
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| AnimalMother wrote: | I have an educated opinion, as if that counts for anything over the internet.
Considering the USA spends much more on health care per capita then any other country, they are still the only country where asthma mortality rates have been increasing over time.
Plus, if we compare their standard of healthcare by quantifiable standards they are in no way better then australia, canada, new zealand or the UK. I have also been witness to treatment for a friend in america, and the way he was treated was abysmal.
There is no specific country which has the best healthcare in the world, but if there was it definitely wouldn't be the US. |
You can't look at one example and think that's how the system works in general. For the people with educations who have good jobs and can afford insurance, there are few better countries than the USA to live in. If you're poor or lazy, you're probably screwed. Don't like it? Move to the UK, Sweden, or NZ.
The only way any of you are really benefitting from your "free" healthcare is if you're poor or lazy. If you have any sort of decent job, the difference you pay in taxes would have paid for healthcare through your employer in a private system without long lines.
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