I think there is this vicious cycle that is going with them.
People perceive them as a trash who only steal, not giving them proper chance for education, and integration into society, which in turns forces them to steal, or do the 'dirtiest' jobs, like sifting through trash in search for metals they can sell so that they could survive, and neglecting the education.
And this goes on and on, which is quite sad.
Their culture is in fact pretty rich, and seeing some folk traditions can be quite interesting...
After '89, after Ceausescu fell, the western countries - France in particular - protested the we are racist towards gypsies (to some extent we are, no decent man would deny it), that we disregard their most basic human rights to education and employment opportunities. Now France actually pays money (about 200 euros/person) to send each and every Romanian gypsy back home - they had enough of gypsy beggars, thieves, crooks and whores.
I had my fare share of gypsy people, from primary school (in communism) to my actual workplace. Some are decent, hardworking people - but unfortunately most are not attracted by education, a stabile job, and generally being a decent citizen. By their tradition and heritage, they prefer to be dishonest, look for quick gain at the loss of many others. Most of the organized crime in my country (drugs, human traficking, money laundering) is led by gypsy clans. They have reserved places at highschools and universities, and since they are mostly unnocupied, their leaders prefer to sell them to various non-gypsy idiots looking for a quick path towards a diploma. The government even passed a law to call them "Rroma", instead of "tigani" - the Romanian word for gypsies. They said it's an offending term, and even made it illegal - the law states that you're to be fined if you use the word towards a "Rroma". Between themselves, they use the term "tigan" anyway, hell, even the police, media and politicians keep using it.
I don't know what country you are from, maybe the gypsies there are more elevated, then you are lucky. Around here, it's same as it ever was.
dingo_d talks like someone who has never been in contact with these beings.
Why? Just because someone has had a different experience from your own and drawn conclusions different to yours doesn't mean they are somehow inexperienced. Disagreements happen on a daily basis - the fact that the Romani are generally detested is a well studied fact and an affirmation of stamping theory (my translation, basically: created and recreated social stigma through social structures).
dingo_d talks like someone who has never been in contact with these beings.
Why? Just because someone has had a different experience from your own and drawn conclusions different to yours doesn't mean they are somehow inexperienced. Disagreements happen on a daily basis - the fact that the Romani are generally detested is a well studied fact and an affirmation of stamping theory (my translation, basically: created and recreated social stigma through social structures).
Unfortunately, while i respect your opinion in most other topics, your opinion on this subject is pretty null and void since you've had very little contact with them, as you yourself said.
Indeed, Rage, I agree with you on that one. Some subjects are not to be tampered with, Fisk, and this is one of those. Don't take it the hard way, but if you would've lived here, in RO, surrounded by filthy ass gypsies, robbing, raping, crashing, fucking, doing and selling drugs, booze, EVERY SINGLE BAD THING ON EARTH, your opinion would've been different. You don't need any theories on this sole case, you just gotta see how it goes for some of us here.
Unfortunately, while i respect your opinion in most other topics, your opinion on this subject is pretty null and void since you've had very little contact with them, as you yourself said.
You just misunderstood the point I was making. (Don't mistake my curiosity and interest in Sociology for a deeper sense of empathy in the acts of murderers or thieves, regardless of reasons for being so).
I am not saying the Romani are good people or bad people. I am saying that they have been historically pursued and branded as undesireables. How many generations does it take before they start realizing that no matter what they do - because of their name and of their origin they will be despised? Under such circumstances who would feel obligated to behave any other way than what was expected?
This is the essence of a social stigma and stamping theory.
Yes, i know that, however that doesn't excuse their behavior in the past 23 years, time during which they've been given free reign to do as they please, be anything they wanted to be, as part of our society, and instead they chose to piss that chance away and make themselves the most hated individuals in this country, and most of Europe.
Yes, i know that, however that doesn't excuse their behavior in the past 23 years, time during which they've been given free reign to do as they please, be anything they wanted to be, as part of our society, and instead they chose to piss that chance away and make themselves the most hated individuals in this country, and most of Europe.
I must have missed the post where I wrote that it excused any ill behavior.
Wait a minute, I didn't miss it - because I never wrote it.
I do however attempt to understand the mechanics of society and how fucking imposing structures can be. Particularly if we are not aware of them.
The gypsie ethnicity is a joke. They're just chavs. The men can do what they want whilst the women are made to leave education at 11/12 and become homemakers. Women arent allowed to drink until they're married. Talk about oppressed 2nd class citizens.
Watch 'My Big Fat Gypsie Weddings' on 4OD.
You mean My Big Fat Greek Weeding? Or is it a gypsy parody
The gypsie ethnicity is a joke. They're just chavs. The men can do what they want whilst the women are made to leave education at 11/12 and become homemakers. Women arent allowed to drink until they're married. Talk about oppressed 2nd class citizens.
Watch 'My Big Fat Gypsie Weddings' on 4OD.
You mean My Big Fat Greek Weeding? Or is it a gypsy parody
It's a documentary.
shitloads of new stuff in my pc. Cant keep track of it all.
dingo_d talks like someone who has never been in contact with these beings.
In my primary school there were a lot of them. Some were idiots who used to fight all the time, most of them were older then the other kids, but there were some who were 'normal' and studied hard so they could get a decent job.
So don't try to look smart by talking about me even if you don't know anything about me
Blind assumption is the basis of having a distorted view on a certain issues...
"Quantum mechanics is actually, contrary to it's reputation, unbeliveably simple, once you take the physics out."
Scott Aaronson
chiv wrote:
thats true you know. newton didnt discover gravity. the apple told him about it, and then he killed it. the core was never found.
I don't think there's anyone that has had contact with them and doesn't hate 'em. But i won't get into it, since i'm liable to get banned for my convictions.
Growing up in Serbia I lived next to a marketplace full of gypsies. I grew up listening to stories of how fucked up gypsies are in general, and how not a single one of them could be trusted and how they all steal etc etc... But as a kid, I ended up spending a large chunk of my childhood with them (started by playing soccer, ended up spending time with them when bored, eventually made friends, when I grew up I did some business with them etc...). What I found is that they're people, just like you and me, but they live in a quirky society that has always been labelled outcast by any country they are hosted in. Consequentially, over the centuries, they've developed a "fuck everyone else" that has made them so hated through all of Europe. But once you get to know them, once you're accepted into their social circles, you realize they're just... people.
I'm not writing this post to justify the crimes and general shittiness of gypsie-kind. I've been stabbed with a glass bottle by gypsies, I've been robbed by gypsies, and I've had my apartment burglarized by gypsies. I'm well aware of the lows they can sink to. But forget all that for a second, and put yourself in their shoes.
Imagine living in a society of wanderers that was never really trusted, never had a place they could call home. A society where over the centuries you've been treated like shit for the color of your skin, for the fact that you're an outsider. Imagine living in a primitive society where the basic principles we take for granted in Western society, such as humanism or hygiene, have never taken root. Now why, in such a society, would you ever respect outsiders? Why wouldn't you steal from them? Rape their women, pillage their welfare, fuck up their cities? Who cares? Gypsies don't have the same mental framework we do, they don't think the same way we do about these things.
And why is this? Because they're outcasts. We never accepted them, and never will. And this has lead to their vicious scummy behavior, which in turn leads to even less acceptance and more hatred. As fisk said, it's a vicious circle.
And how should this change your opinion of gypsies? Well think about it, what should your attitude be towards them? You could take the easy way out, and just say "fuck all gypsies" and hope they all die in a fire. Or you could realize the situation is much more complicated than that. If you want to get rid of the gypsy problem, you either stuff them all into gas chambers (Hitler tried that, didn't work), or you could slowly integrate them into your society.
Now I'm not saying you should go out and hug a gypsy. I don't trust gypsies any more than the next person, and I dislike them as much as you guys do. But I also realize that a shitty attitude isn't going to help the situation. In fact, our shitty attitude is what led to this situation in the first place. So if you ever do want to honestly fix the gypsy situation, you will realize that you will have to change your attitude. Threads like this one aren't helping. You don't have to love gypsies. Hell, you don't even have to trust them or deal with them or even tolerate them. But you shouldn't be so quick to condemn them either. Because you're not helping the situation, you're just making it worse.
tld;r - Jetlagged tainted tries to make a case for why we should all stow our gypsy-hate, and why this thread isn't helping.
We still don't have any laws against begging for money, so they are all over Norway, they have also gotten a lot of media attention lately. Also from Romanian media
Their lifestyle is traveling around with their whole family without any money :/
You know what's interesting.
Some can think that it's just Europeans who dislike Romas but the funny thing is I have a friend who's from Iran, he moved here when he was like 10 or so. He never had contact with Romas before moving to Sweden, he fucking despises them...
What's interesting about that, hardly anyone likes them gypsy's that are working hard and are trying to obey the law despise the other gypsy's most of all.
Don't see that changing any time soon either, the circle is (almost) unbreakable.
one time when I was a kid one older gypsie slapped me in the arcade games room and I hit my head pretty hard on one of the pinball machines.. .. his nickname among the gypsies was Bruce Lee..
Fight for you a pound! If you win, you can keep your pound.
Fucking gypsies get no sympathy or "hugs" from me. They perpetuate their own ill reputation.. so that means WE, the victims, should be more sympathetic? Backwards-ass logic there.
So I just watched the documentary and some of the episodes of my big fat gypsy wedding and holy shit, what a fuck load of medieval way of thinking. "A man is out working and a woman stays at home cooking".
Fucking gypsies get no sympathy or "hugs" from me. They perpetuate their own ill reputation.. so that means WE, the victims, should be more sympathetic? Backwards-ass logic there.
Not sympathetic, not even tolerant, just less virulently hateful...
Fucking gypsies get no sympathy or "hugs" from me. They perpetuate their own ill reputation.. so that means WE, the victims, should be more sympathetic? Backwards-ass logic there.
Not sympathetic, not even tolerant, just less virulently hateful...
Well if it helps, I don't spit on people in the street. I keep my distaste to myself.. and, well, this thread since it was asked
The way I see it, hating gypsies is no different from hating gays, or Jews, or atheists, or Americans.
Hating someone for being part of a group, for being born somewhere or in some culture is just stupid. A group is made of individuals who may or may not be like the majority.
by that logic, even a chav insulting you and trying to slit your stomach with a knife shouldnt be held in contempt since he was born into a family of shitty chav parents.
the way i see it, you mustnt hate anyone for their race and sexual orientation, but everything else is developed during lifetime with a given choice to stay or move away from it, that decision ranging from being extremely easy to extremely hard given the circumstances.
but nontheless, it is a decision that can be made and henceforth judged.
The way I see it, hating gypsies is no different from hating gays, or Jews, or atheists, or Americans.
Hating someone for being part of a group, for being born somewhere or in some culture is just stupid. A group is made of individuals who may or may not be like the majority.
It's not the same at all, most Jews have kosher, most Americans like baseball and most gypsy's steal from other people it's part of their 'culture' and we have victims because of that culture.
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.. his nickname among the gypsies was Bruce Lee.. 
