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 Posted: Sat, 9th Aug 2014 23:38 Post subject: |
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It's funny how people talk about nanny states and how we're losing freedom one step at a time, and at the same time these people try taking others freedom away because there is something they don't like. Second hand smoking is only a bullshit argument to get an upper hand in discussions about smoking. Second hand exposure might be more dangerous *might* i'm not really all to sure, but the amount of exposure is so tiny in public today that it doesn't matter seeing as you can only smoke outside anyway. I agree with the bans in restaurants and bars though. That crap was hazardous for everyone.
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| Posted: Sat, 9th Aug 2014 23:49 Post subject: |
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| MORPHINEUS wrote: | | sabin1981 wrote: | | MORPHINEUS wrote: |
Getting worse now with douchebags smoking those E-cigs in trains and saying they aren't doing anything wrong...  |
... but.. they aren't? E-cigs have no secondary harm to anyone, it's just steam. |
Still stinks with all their additives in it. |
No, it doesn't.
E-cigs barely leave any odor (in a confined space, even less in open space).
I've been smoking all day in the computer room and people who come by can't tell the difference.
To further add to the discussion I am in agreement with Stormwolf, so many people here who bitch about personal freedom but have no problems limiting others because they don't lile it. |
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ixigia
[Moderator] Consigliere
Posts: 65103
Location: Italy
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| Posted: Sun, 10th Aug 2014 00:34 Post subject: |
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I don't care what people do with their bodies, they can inhale all sorts of nasty shit, take shots of synthetic garbage and blow Jalapeno, just have the decency to do it in the designated places, without bothering anyone, especially children. 
Speaking of which, I was talking to a high school classmate last week after one of those rendezvous, and for 10 minutes straight she kept slowly blowing smoke to my face like in a weird mating ritual. As a non-smoker at some point I couldn't resist anymore and told her to please stop doing that. Her reaction was priceless, "ooh how can you waat seriously  " 
I know that mine is an uncommon reaction these days, seen as something "rude"  , but it was getting unbearable, and with my health being involved, I have the legal right to complain! (she was also very petulant even before that, so I regret nothing xD)
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Morphineus
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Posts: 24883
Location: Sweden
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| Posted: Sun, 10th Aug 2014 00:42 Post subject: |
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I don't believe in freedom, never have... because of people. People need boundaries because without them they are an obnoxious bunch.
On the whole E-cigs... there are thousands of additives out there. I'm not going to say there are none that give no odor. I'm just talking of the ones I experienced, ones that did bother me (most likely cheapest of the cheapest, if you look what kind of characters were doing it).
I don't care about open space when it comes to vapors... trains however... sorry have some self control and wait till your out.
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| Posted: Sun, 10th Aug 2014 00:53 Post subject: |
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| MORPHINEUS wrote: |
I don't care about open space when it comes to vapors... trains however... sorry have some self control and wait till your out. |
I would find someone drenched in perfume more annoying than someone taking a vape on a train (which dissipates within seconds). |
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Morphineus
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Posts: 24883
Location: Sweden
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| Posted: Sun, 10th Aug 2014 00:55 Post subject: |
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| Prefetian wrote: | | MORPHINEUS wrote: |
I don't care about open space when it comes to vapors... trains however... sorry have some self control and wait till your out. |
I would find someone drenched in perfume more annoying than someone taking a vape on a train (which dissipates within seconds). |
Yeah depending on the amount of perfume some of these skanks are indeed worse, I give you that 
Tho usually I make a comment: Guess someone didn't shower this morning  |
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| Posted: Sun, 10th Aug 2014 01:04 Post subject: |
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So today I went with my GF to her parents house, near them there was a concert with lots of people and loud music. After the concert was over people were trying to get home. At least 15 people were so drunk they could barely walk and kept falling over like a sack of potatoes.
Now I personally don't drink much (a beer now and then) mostly due to medication. Even though I don't like drunk people (they smell, they puke and they can act like retards) I wouldn't want to put some kind of restriction on alcohol or where you can drink it (people are way too happy to drink on trains and buses).
I'm guessing a lot of you who are saying "smoking is bad, it should be banned" would agree with my statement above. Hence the hypocrisy I'm reading is fantastic even though I cam agree that some smokers can be utter jackasses and self-centered douchebags.
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Nalo
nothing
Posts: 13525
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| Posted: Sun, 10th Aug 2014 01:08 Post subject: |
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Last edited by Nalo on Wed, 3rd Jul 2024 06:19; edited 2 times in total
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Nalo
nothing
Posts: 13525
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| Posted: Sun, 10th Aug 2014 01:11 Post subject: |
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Last edited by Nalo on Wed, 3rd Jul 2024 06:19; edited 2 times in total
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| Posted: Sun, 10th Aug 2014 01:15 Post subject: |
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| Nalo wrote: | @Prefetian maybe you come spend a few nights in booze Britain and see how your opinion of harmless drunks swiftly turns
Yea I would gladly limit where people could be drunk. |
I see, what else would you limit?
I'm guessing you're not for legalizing marijuana/hasch either. |
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| Posted: Sun, 10th Aug 2014 01:19 Post subject: |
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I'd support a limit on alcohol too since people do crazy shit when they lose themselves. Things like weed are child's play compared to alcohol. The bad thing with alcohol is that most people don't seem to know their limit, or worse, they willingly go past that limit. Drunks are just so unpredictable. I have (kind of) friends who go completely mental when drunk, while in normal life they're great.
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Nalo
nothing
Posts: 13525
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| Posted: Sun, 10th Aug 2014 01:21 Post subject: |
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Last edited by Nalo on Wed, 3rd Jul 2024 06:18; edited 2 times in total
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| Posted: Sun, 10th Aug 2014 01:23 Post subject: |
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Interesting, please tell me what else you'd like to limit/delegalize.
What about limiting people on how much perfume they use (cause as an asthmatic someone might be seriously affected by it). Or how about someone who doesn't shower properly and smells like a homeless person (which completely stank up one part of the bus where NOBODY would/could sit).
Ok, then what about porn (it's not good for you if you become addicted to it).
Where does one stop?
Sounds like you people would love sharia laws.
| Nalo wrote: | | Nah. I would limit the places where one could be drunk, not the act of getting drunk. People can do what they want, as long as it doesn't affect those around them in an unhealthy way |
What does that even mean, "in an unhealthy way"?
If someone gets drunk and punches someone then that's what you'd call a crime and usually gets you in trouble with the law.
I don't see how someone can get drunk in public and be "unhealthy" towards others..
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Nalo
nothing
Posts: 13525
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| Posted: Sun, 10th Aug 2014 01:30 Post subject: |
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Last edited by Nalo on Wed, 3rd Jul 2024 06:18; edited 2 times in total
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Morphineus
VIP Member
Posts: 24883
Location: Sweden
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| Posted: Sun, 10th Aug 2014 01:37 Post subject: |
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So having some restrictions to guard that people have some consideration is Sharia law now? come on... don't be daft. There is no black and white it's all grey if you want things to work.
There is not a lot of people who can deal with absolute freedom... tell me otherwise and I'd just laugh. People need some kind of rules to know what is acceptable and what not.
To answer the question: Yes I would legalize drugs, it needs regulation like anything else. To make it illegal doesn't work. What people need is a frame set where they can work in, not too strict but clearly telling them what is asocial behaviour and what isn't tolerated.
Especially these days when education and parenting has degraded to retarded levels.
Edit: I really wish people had more sense btw. So we don't need restrictions, no one had to tell me to keep it down during the nights or not be obnoxious with my smoking. I drank, I did drugs, but no one had to tell me when I was going overboard. I know what was acceptable and what not. But I don't see that in a lot of people around me.
Last edited by Morphineus on Sun, 10th Aug 2014 01:42; edited 2 times in total
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| Posted: Sun, 10th Aug 2014 01:39 Post subject: |
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| Nalo wrote: | | Err. It doesn't say drunk .. In an unhealthy way. I'm talking more broadly about how peoples actions affect others. |
That's....very ambiguous. You could apply almost anything to that.
| MORPHINEUS wrote: | So having some restrictions to guard that people have some consideration is Sharia law now? come on... don't be daft. There is no black and white it's all grey if you want things to work.
There is not a lot of people who can deal with absolute freedom... tell me otherwise and I'd just laugh. People need some kind of rules to know what is acceptable and what not.
To answer the question: Yes I would legalize drugs, it needs regulation like anything else. To make it illegal doesn't work. What people need is a frame set where they can work in, not too strict but clearly telling them what is asocial behaviour and what isn't tolerated.
Especially these days when education and parenting has degraded to retarded levels. |
Ok then, I'll bite.
You don't seem to want to make ciggies or alcohol illegal but you'd want to limit it. Limit it how and to where? Obviously you don't want someone smoking near a busstop. Where else would you set where someone can smoke?
| sabin1981 wrote: | | Prefetian wrote: | | I don't see how someone can get drunk in public and be "unhealthy" towards others.. |
Spoken like someone who never lived in the UK  |
Is it that much different than Poland or Sweden? Are you saying that you guys constantly commit murder in the UK drunk?
Because it sounds like that's what you're insinuating since people who get drunk in Sweden and Poland do stupid shit as well.
Last edited by Mr.Tinkles on Sun, 10th Aug 2014 01:57; edited 4 times in total |
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| Posted: Sun, 10th Aug 2014 02:03 Post subject: |
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I imagine it would look something like this if you guys were in charge. |
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Nalo
nothing
Posts: 13525
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| Posted: Sun, 10th Aug 2014 02:08 Post subject: |
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Last edited by Nalo on Wed, 3rd Jul 2024 06:18; edited 2 times in total
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Morphineus
VIP Member
Posts: 24883
Location: Sweden
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| Posted: Sun, 10th Aug 2014 02:26 Post subject: |
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The sad thing is that for you it seems there's only two ways: extreme limits or extreme freedom.
Take notice of what people post, I haven't said a word about bus stops.
You don't have to turn everything into ridicule/extremes, reeks more of a try to troll (As in: stir shit up) than actual discussion when you distort peoples views like that.
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| Posted: Sun, 10th Aug 2014 02:31 Post subject: |
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| MORPHINEUS wrote: | | You don't have to turn everything into ridicule/extremes, reeks more of a try to troll (As in: stir shit up) than actual discussion when you distort peoples views like that. |
That's our Preffy, doing what he does best
@Prefetian
http://www.ias.org.uk/Alcohol-knowledge-centre/Crime-and-social-impacts/Factsheets/UK-alcohol-related-crime-statistics.aspx
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Alcohol-related crime in England & Wales
According to the 2011/12 CSEW, there were 917,000 violent incidents where the victim believed the offender(s) to be under the influence of alcohol, accounting for 47% of violent offences committed that year.
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Silly people doing stupid shit. Oh well, boys will be boys eh? 
| Quote: |
Alcohol-related crime in Scotland
The estimated number of violent crimes was 220,000 in 2010/11, according to the SCJS of that year; 63% of these incidents were said to have occurred under the influence of alcohol, a higher proportion than in England.[5] 22% of violent crimes happened in or around a pub, bar or club and 46% occurred at the weekend between 6pm and 6am
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Silly people doing stupid shit. Oh well, boys will be boys eh?
http://www.dorset.police.uk/default.aspx?page=6227
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Approximately 20% of all of the violent crime offences – including all levels of assault, public order offences and affray – committed in Dorset during the year 2011/12 took place in night time economy areas. This equates to 1,691 violent crimes.
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Silly people doing stupid shit. Oh well, boys will be boys eh?
http://www.bournemouthecho.co.uk/news/9569527.Fir_Vale_Road_sixth_most_violent_street_in_the_UK/r/?ref=twt
| Quote: |
A BOURNEMOUTH street has been revealed as the sixth most violent in the country by a thinktank.
The statistics showed there were 203 violent crimes on or near Fir Vale Road between January, 2011 and November ,2011. |
Last edited by sabin1981 on Sun, 10th Aug 2014 02:35; edited 1 time in total
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| Posted: Sun, 10th Aug 2014 02:34 Post subject: |
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| MORPHINEUS wrote: | The sad thing is that for you it seems there's only two ways: extreme limits or extreme freedom.
Take notice of what people post, I haven't said a word about bus stops.
You don't have to turn everything into ridicule/extremes, reeks more of a try to troll (As in: stir shit up) than actual discussion when you distort peoples views like that. |
You're right, you didn't say any of it but you did insinuate it.
I don't care about open space when it comes to vapors... trains however... sorry have some self control and wait till your out.
As if you're insinuating that it shouldn't be possible for someone to do that just because you find it rude. I just called you on it and now I'm a troll for it. |
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| Posted: Sun, 10th Aug 2014 02:39 Post subject: |
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| sabin1981 wrote: | | MORPHINEUS wrote: | | You don't have to turn everything into ridicule/extremes, reeks more of a try to troll (As in: stir shit up) than actual discussion when you distort peoples views like that. |
That's our Preffy, doing what he does best
@Prefetian
http://www.ias.org.uk/Alcohol-knowledge-centre/Crime-and-social-impacts/Factsheets/UK-alcohol-related-crime-statistics.aspx
| Quote: |
Alcohol-related crime in England & Wales
According to the 2011/12 CSEW, there were 917,000 violent incidents where the victim believed the offender(s) to be under the influence of alcohol, accounting for 47% of violent offences committed that year.
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Silly people doing stupid shit. Oh well, boys will be boys eh?
| Quote: |
Alcohol-related crime in Scotland
The estimated number of violent crimes was 220,000 in 2010/11, according to the SCJS of that year; 63% of these incidents were said to have occurred under the influence of alcohol, a higher proportion than in England.[5] 22% of violent crimes happened in or around a pub, bar or club and 46% occurred at the weekend between 6pm and 6am
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Silly people doing stupid shit. Oh well, boys will be boys eh?
http://www.dorset.police.uk/default.aspx?page=6227
| Quote: |
Approximately 20% of all of the violent crime offences – including all levels of assault, public order offences and affray – committed in Dorset during the year 2011/12 took place in night time economy areas. This equates to 1,691 violent crimes.
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Silly people doing stupid shit. Oh well, boys will be boys eh?
http://www.bournemouthecho.co.uk/news/9569527.Fir_Vale_Road_sixth_most_violent_street_in_the_UK/r/?ref=twt
| Quote: |
A BOURNEMOUTH street has been revealed as the sixth most violent in the country by a thinktank.
The statistics showed there were 203 violent crimes on or near Fir Vale Road between January, 2011 and November ,2011. |
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So you want to make alcohol illega (or "limit" it as you put it)l because you think that would fix the problem, got it.
Last edited by Mr.Tinkles on Sun, 10th Aug 2014 02:40; edited 1 time in total |
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| Posted: Sun, 10th Aug 2014 02:40 Post subject: |
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| sabin1981 wrote: | | There you go again, one extreme to another. |
What are you proposing then? |
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Morphineus
VIP Member
Posts: 24883
Location: Sweden
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| Posted: Sun, 10th Aug 2014 02:45 Post subject: |
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It was an answer to the vaping, you're just pulling it out of context and twisting it into me saying: that I do care if it were smokers in open spaces.
To be clear: I don't if I can escape from it, aka me moving a bit away or me switching position with the smoker so it doesn't blow directly in my face. Don't think it's unreasonable to not want it directly in your face.
If Belgium was big enough I bet Sweden should suffice for not having to be close to each other so one gets smoke in his face. 
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| Posted: Sun, 10th Aug 2014 02:56 Post subject: |
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You know what, I'm just going to say that people can and will be assholes. There will be people who will blow smoke in your face, get drunk in public and act up and those people are assholes.
I won't however say or insinuate that it (ciggies and alcohol) should be forbidden or limited in such a way where it's almost unseen (or unsmelled) and everyone associated with it is treated like scum.
The OP is straight out saying that someone or more should do something about tobacco in any way possible and my response is basically towards that and others who are like-minded.
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Nalo
nothing
Posts: 13525
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| Posted: Sun, 10th Aug 2014 12:17 Post subject: |
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Last edited by Nalo on Wed, 3rd Jul 2024 06:18; edited 2 times in total
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