Oregon Christian Bakers Ordered to Pay $135K After Refusing to Work Gay Wedding; Told to Stop Speaking About 'Obeying God, Not Man'
The Oregon Christian bakery owners who refused to bake a cake for a same-sex wedding on the grounds that it would violate their religious convictions have been ordered to pay $135,000 in emotional damages, and have also been prohibited from speaking about standing up for their Christian beliefs.
On Thursday, Oregon Labor Commissioner Brad Avakian issued his final order in the case against Aaron and Melissa Klein, the owners of the Sweet Cakes by Melissa bakery in Gresham, who were found guilty of discrimination in January for declining to bake a cake for a lesbian couple's wedding in 2013. Avakian ordered the Kleins to pay complainant Rachel Bowman-Cryer $75,000 for damages and $60,000 to her partner Laurel Bowman-Cryer.
...
The Kleins, who said last year that they were forced to close their shop in 2013 because harassment from LGBT advocates caused so much strain on their business, have also been told to "cease and desist" from speaking publicly about how they plan to continue to stand for their Christian faith and refuse to participate in same-sex weddings, as they now operate their business from their home.
Aaron Klein told Fox News that they plan to appeal the decision and that they will not comply.
"This man has no power over me. He seems to think he can tell me to be quiet. That doesn't sit well with me and I refuse to comply," Klein said. "When my constitutional freedoms have been violated by the state, I'm going to speak out. That's the way it is."
It's about discrimination based on colour or sexual orientation, which is illegal. It's one thing for some bigoted douche to say "homosexuals are godless scum!", it's another for a registered business to refuse to serve someone because of their sexual orientation. There are laws against that - as "Sweet Cakes" found out
Do to others as you would have them do to you...huehuehue
If anything these christian bakers will get really good at making cucumber cakes with goatse decorations now.
It's about discrimination based on colour or sexual orientation, which is illegal. It's one thing for some bigoted douche to say "homosexuals are godless scum!", it's another for a registered business to refuse to serve someone because of their sexual orientation. There are laws against that - as "Sweet Cakes" found out
This.
A simple fact I had to explain to a coworker yesterday. It's not about you having an opinion. You can be a bigot any day of the week. But you cannot discriminate in any way. Discrimination is bad, somehow people tend to forget that.
"Quantum mechanics is actually, contrary to it's reputation, unbeliveably simple, once you take the physics out."
Scott Aaronson
chiv wrote:
thats true you know. newton didnt discover gravity. the apple told him about it, and then he killed it. the core was never found.
It's about discrimination based on colour or sexual orientation, which is illegal. It's one thing for some bigoted douche to say "homosexuals are godless scum!", it's another for a registered business to refuse to serve someone because of their sexual orientation. There are laws against that - as "Sweet Cakes" found out
Such malice, you sound almost as happy as those two bitches that think they managed to destroy a family just because they refused to take part in a ceremony they don't support.
It's funny how the homo activists like to blame everyone else for the made up "homophobia" when it's increasingly clear where the real hate is coming from. Tho it is not unsurprising that it is so, they hate normal, healthy families, deep inside they envy them.
Bakers who refused to make lesbian wedding cake told to pay $135K by Monday -- or else
Two Christian bakers who refused to bake a cake for a lesbian wedding have been ordered to pay $135,000 in damages by July 13 or else the state of Oregon could place a lien on their home.
it's their believe and so their decision to make.
if i would be a hardcore christian then i would had probably reacted the same.
everyone can accept everyone but not if others provoke it. why do you have to go to a chistian bakery if you know it will get problems.
try going into a muslim bakery and ask for a naked mohammed on your cake and you will have a much bigger problem.
also what about those "no shirt, no shoes, no services" signs? should those backers just have said something like "we can't proceed your order because we are so bad at baking. im sorry" and everything would be fine?
i understand both of them. but in the end i still think the bakery had every right to say no. even if they break a law.
They may be bigots but it's their business if you ask me. Denying them is very silly but suing them for it and asking $135.000 is even sillier. Doesn't the LGBT community realize that all it does, is make them even less popular this way among those who already dislike/hate them?
It's just like modern feminism - instead of doing good and improving the way society thinks about them, they just make it harder for people to accept them. I got plenty of gay friends and have supported gay people since I was a young teenager but if you see the ridiculous over-the-top "gay pride" crap it does make you shake your head - it just makes people see you all as over-sexualized idiots.
It's not the problem with people beliefs but a problem with people being stupid fucks on both counts. I don't cheer for any side, they both are prejudiced cunts worth each other.
sar·casm | \ ˈsär-ˌka-zəm \
1: a sharp and often satirical or ironic utterance designed to cut or give pain
2a: a mode of satirical wit depending for its effect on bitter, caustic, and often ironic language that is usually directed against an individual
b: the use or language of sarcasm
It's about discrimination based on colour or sexual orientation, which is illegal. It's one thing for some bigoted douche to say "homosexuals are godless scum!", it's another for a registered business to refuse to serve someone because of their sexual orientation. There are laws against that - as "Sweet Cakes" found out
Such malice, you sound almost as happy as those two bitches that think they managed to destroy a family just because they refused to take part in a ceremony they don't support.
It's funny how the homo activists like to blame everyone else for the made up "homophobia" when it's increasingly clear where the real hate is coming from. Tho it is not unsurprising that it is so, they hate normal, healthy families, deep inside they envy them.
Bakers who refused to make lesbian wedding cake told to pay $135K by Monday -- or else
Two Christian bakers who refused to bake a cake for a lesbian wedding have been ordered to pay $135,000 in damages by July 13 or else the state of Oregon could place a lien on their home.
You are a sad person, so they should just allow discrimination?
Whats next, no blacks, no long haired persons, no small people, any discrimination has to be nipped in the bud, belief is not the law, screw the homophobes, they put themselves in that position not the people they descriminated against.
Next you'll say that KKK were the victims, and that rapists are the victims in rape cases.
actually if it wasn't about 135k . lets say 1000$ and a sorry... then this thing would be over already and no one would talk about it. they would have learned the lesson but fucking the life from the whole family, just because they didn't proceed the order. it's just too much.
maybe they are bad homophobes! but those two gay people aren't any better persons.
not because they are gay (why should it matter) just because they are freaking monsters destroying the life of those children.
There are two separate issues here as far as I'm concerned:
First is that the "christian family" was discriminating two people because of who they love and shag. It's one thing to have your beliefs and even voice your opinion, it's another thing altogether to treat people worse because of something you don't tolerate. That's called discrimnation and it's outlawed for a reason. Noone is forcing anyone to accept homosexuality or make it a part of their lives. But, in a society, people can't be allowed to put their personal beliefs in front of other people's dignity and freedom. And before someone responds with "they could've gotten the cake at a different place" - yeah, sure. But that's not the issue - the issue is that they shouldn't have to, just like any other couple wouldn't need to.
Second issue is that the family got fined waaaay to high for something like this. A thousand or few thousand dollar fine would be quite enough. I wouldn't even force the issue of admitting fault or saying they're sorry - it's bound to cause problems and it doesn't really matter all that much - they should be allowed to think they're right, just not act on these beliefs in a discriminating manner. They should just be punished for breaking the law. Obviously, it should also happen again and again and again if there's cause - but that's it.
TYT made a story about that. The thing is its against the law in Portland. I think law should not dictate how you run your business.
Personnaly i would not given a fuck as long they pay.
I bet if it was a Muslim family who would deny making X to any non-Muslim due to their religious beliefs you asswipes would be outraged and scream murder. But because it's a X-ian bunch discriminating against homosexuals it's suddenly A-OK.
I bet if it was a Muslim family who would deny making X to any non-Muslim due to their religious beliefs you asswipes would be outraged and scream murder. But because it's a X-ian bunch discriminating against homosexuals it's suddenly A-OK.
What a bunch of kurwas some of you are, really!
You can't compare apples with oranges. Muslims already force their believes on everyone despite being immigrants which is very different from a century-long tradition of Christianity in the US. If a Muslim in Morocco did such a thing I'd shrug and say "well it's only natural in a Muslim country". Again, apples and oranges ...
Besides, in this case, this is not about whether they were bigots which they clearly are. It's about how utterly stupid those two women were - not to mention greedy and selfish.
The LGBT community should openly denounce them because what they did, is make sure that the kids of those parents will hate anything remotely gay for the rest of their lives. Well done. Bravo. You just made another generation of gay-haters all because you got your knickers in a twist. Again, just like what feminists are doing today.
You'd think their goal would be to make people be more open minded but all they do, is beat people down, force their opinion on them and then use force to make laws change in their favour. It's despicable and completely NOT the way you should do things.
Such malice, you sound almost as happy as those two bitches that think they managed to destroy a family just because they refused to take part in a ceremony they don't support.
I agree the ruling is WAY out there, and seems excessive. And both parties are being assholes, only difference is one actively, without cause was an asshole, the other side reacted to it by being one.
But either way, they didnt ask them to take part in the ceremony..they asked them to provide a service, for which they started a business with the sole purpose of doing. Asking a baker to make a cake for money is no more 'taking part in it' than buying paper plates at walmart for money is asking the cashier to 'take part in your bbq'.
just like me buying a chainsaw to clear cut a rain forest isn't forcing home depot into 'taking part in it'.
You can be a bigot all day, even wave gay hate flags at your house, be my guest. Hell drive to work in your car with "God hates fags" stickers all over it. But when you get into the door, you are no longer you, you are a business owner.
When you refuse to provide a service to people that did the EXACT same thing as 1000's of others did in your store, in the same way, because of what they do at home is wrong.
I mean would you feel the same way if normal store went "sorry we arent selling you napkins your going to be using them at a gay wedding".
Or take it a step further, "Sorry sir, I wont prescribe you Viagra because your gay". Would that be going too far?
Or what about someone that's against interracial marriage as a belief? is it ok for them to go "I wont make no n*gger lover and her husband a cake!".
All that is is flexing your muscle of belief because you know they want what you have, and you can try to stop it, by way of standing in the way 'proudly' declaring you disapprove of it (you not your business..if anyone says their business has beliefs they should be slapped, its a paper saying they pay taxes for goods and services).
I think if you run a business, you 'personal' beliefs are just that. personal. Your business isn't a person. If the client is following the procedure for asking for your service in a manner everyone else is, for a mundane cause, you have no reason to deny it.
If that was the case, when I was doing construction, 50% of the people I remodeled houses for, or fixed plumbing for would still be needing it, as I disagreed with a LOT of them on political, religious, or personal beliefs. I was there to provide a service for money, not care about what they think morally, or insist they consider mine.
-We don't control what happens to us in life, but we control how we respond to what happens in life.
-Hard times create strong men, strong men create good times, good times create weak men, and weak men create hard times. -G. Michael Hopf
Disclaimer: Post made by me are of my own creation. A delusional mind relayed in text form.
I bet if it was a Muslim family who would deny making X to any non-Muslim due to their religious beliefs you asswipes would be outraged and scream murder. But because it's a X-ian bunch discriminating against homosexuals it's suddenly A-OK.
What a bunch of kurwas some of you are, really!
You can't compare apples with oranges. Muslims already force their believes on everyone despite being immigrants which is very different from a century-long tradition of Christianity in the US. If a Muslim in Morocco did such a thing I'd shrug and say "well it's only natural in a Muslim country". Again, apples and oranges ...
Besides, in this case, this is not about whether they were bigots which they clearly are. It's about how utterly stupid those two women were - not to mention greedy and selfish.
The LGBT community should openly denounce them because what they did, is make sure that the kids of those parents will hate anything remotely gay for the rest of their lives. Well done. Bravo. You just made another generation of gay-haters all because you got your knickers in a twist. Again, just like what feminists are doing today.
You'd think their goal would be to make people be more open minded but all they do, is beat people down, force their opinion on them and then use force to make laws change in their favour. It's despicable and completely NOT the way you should do things.
What if they were converts to islam or muslims born and raised in the us
To all ya'll bigots; tough tittie. Your unpleasant and backwards thinking isn't welcome any more. If you run a business and you discriminate against someone else based on gender, orientation, skin colour or disability; you can and should be brought to task over it. Don't want to be sued? Bite your fucking tongue, keep your hostile and intolerant opinions to yourself, do your job, provide the service, whine about it in private.
Seeing bigot "fee-fees" being hurt is delicious Good day is good \o/
@DXWarlock
Pretty much agree with everything you said, though I do think the couple were right to get the courts involved - just as I'd agree if it was a black person being told "no niggers here, white-only cakes" or a woman told "this ain't no kitchen, bitch, this is a MAN's store, we only serve MEN here" America is a litigious country and these morons should know that. Discrimination in the workplace or from businesses simply isn't allowed. Though I do agree that the fine was disproportionately high, I believe they should be held accountable.. but to THAT level? egh, too high, too harsh.
The thing is its against the law in Portland. I think law should not dictate how you run your business.
That's llike the whole purpose of the law. To dictate how you can do your business and what's OK and what's not...
The way I understood the situation is the U.S. is that it's in the constitution / federal law that you have be to serviced as people, no matter what. Neither public offices nor private businesses can deny you service, independant from discrimination.
In other countries this is highly different.
In Germany for example, discrimination is also illegal, but there is no law of service-duty, you don't have to service nobody as a private business.
The way Germans interpret business is that it's a private contract between two parties when you buy a product or service.
As such, nobody can force you to agree or sign a contract. That would be totally counter-intuitive if you HAD to agree to a contract you don't want to.
So when somebody walks into a bakery and says "I want a cake" ... that's just the expression from one party that they are willing to pay money for a cake, the other side has to agree on that too "Yes, I will take your money and bake the cake", only then is the contract binding / legal and both sides are obliged to deliver their part.
So, in yet other words, if you walk into a bakery in Germany and people don't service you, that's not discrimination, that's just freedom of and from contracts.
If, however, they don't service you and then they say: "We don't service muslims, gays, or whatever..." that IS discrimination and you can sue them for discrimination.
Or if they have signs hanging out, saying they don't service certain people because of things they have no power over (skin color, sex, sexual orientation, ...) or beliefs (religion, ideology, political orientation, ...).
In USA the situation is different. There, A) you HAVE to serve citizens as a busines and B) you can't discriminate.
Those things together basically don't allow for any arbitrary reasons for denying service to people, other than "we out of stock" or obvious shit like that...
Maybe someone from the U.S. can comment on that and confirm or correct me on that?
Thats about right, you can still have the "we have the right to refuse service to anyone" concept, but it has to be based on their actions/past actions while in your store and you have to be able to prove you are in the right for it, not anything else pretty much. Drunk in bar, they can refuse you more. Your making a scene in a shop, they can tell you your not welcome.
I'm assuming,(im sure there is a trail to follow if you looked), but I think it migrated that way from the whole idea that you could deny service without reason, but being Americans with the "long as my freedom is safe, I dont care about if im infringing on yours" outlook we have (in a general way) people was loopholing that into using discrimination.
The whole black/white issue of the middle 20th century along with the strong "no Jews/Irish/Italians/whatever" clash in the early part of the 20th during the immigration boom in New York, caused the rules to slowly get stricter. As they would take the sign down saying "no blacks" but then just say they didn't want to happen to serve these 12, unrelated cases of customers that just HAPPEN to be black..it didn't 'solve' anything.
So the "a few bad apples spoils it for the whole bunch" is as accurate as you can get for US business to patron laws. A handful of rulebenders trying to use it as a cover for dislike, made it so no reasons can be used either beyond them disrupting your business or causing problems for it.
-We don't control what happens to us in life, but we control how we respond to what happens in life.
-Hard times create strong men, strong men create good times, good times create weak men, and weak men create hard times. -G. Michael Hopf
Disclaimer: Post made by me are of my own creation. A delusional mind relayed in text form.
@paxsali So law should dicatate how you do business? So its ok if government official comes to your store and say, listen you cant sell that thing on that price or you cant paint the interior walls that color, or you cant pay x amount of salary to your employees.
Im the guy who "Shitting up world news", according to admin, so watch out ...
@paxsali So law should dicatate how you do business? So its ok if goverment offical comes to your store and say, listen you cant sell that thing on that price or you cant paint the interior walls that color, or you cant pay x amount of salary to your employees.
They do that now in most countries, (cant sell that)You cant sell nuclear grade material, (cant paint that) you cant paint pro-neo nazi propaganda on the walls. (cant pay that) You cant pay someone 0.50 an hour...etc.
And telling you how you interior design your business, and that you cant deny service to model patrons that act like the rest just because he loves a man, which is totally unrelated to your business dealings, is 2 TOTALLY different things. You are pulling a straw man argument with that.
-We don't control what happens to us in life, but we control how we respond to what happens in life.
-Hard times create strong men, strong men create good times, good times create weak men, and weak men create hard times. -G. Michael Hopf
Disclaimer: Post made by me are of my own creation. A delusional mind relayed in text form.
Yep that is exactly how it works. There are laws that regulate pricing in many countries, there are laws that set minimum wages, not sure about interior colour but there are sanitary norms that restrict what materials you can use for certain businesses.
@paxsali So law should dicatate how you do business? So its ok if government official comes to your store and say, listen you cant sell that thing on that price or you cant paint the interior walls that color, or you cant pay x amount of salary to your employees.
Reality check on aisle 5, reality check; aisle 5!
dsergei wrote:
Yep that is exactly how it works. There are laws that regulate pricing in many countries, there are laws that set minimum wages, not sure about interior colour but there are sanitary norms that restrict what materials you can use for certain businesses.
DXWarlock wrote:
They do that now in most countries, (cant sell that)You cant sell nuclear grade material, (cant paint that) you cant paint pro-neo nazi propaganda on the walls. (cant pay that) You cant pay someone 0.50 an hour...etc.
paxsali wrote:
@Goon
Yes, Goon. Good morning. How are you today? Have you woken up to "reality". Scary place, isn't it?
Signature/Avatar nuking: none (can be changed in your profile)
You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum
Ohh and fuck those muffdivers as well.
Good day is good \o/
