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tonizito
Posts: 51090
Location: Portugal, the shithole of Europe.
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 Posted: Wed, 2nd Mar 2011 19:56 Post subject: |
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Y U NO POST IN THE HARDWARE FORUM?
| boundle (thoughts on cracking AITD) wrote: | | i guess thouth if without a legit key the installation was rolling back we are all fucking then |
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(Nexus)
Posts: 2807
Location: 192.168.1.72
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| Posted: Wed, 2nd Mar 2011 19:58 Post subject: |
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| tonizito wrote: | | Y U NO POST IN THE HARDWARE FORUM? |
Because it's about Battlefield 3 and Crysis 2?
TWIN PEAKS is "something of a miracle."
"...like nothing else on television."
"a phenomenon."
"A tangled tale of sex, violence, power, junk food..."
"Like Nothing On Earth"
~ WHAT THEY'RE TRYING TO SAY CAN ONLY BE SEEN ~
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CHTUOgYNRzY |
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tonizito
Posts: 51090
Location: Portugal, the shithole of Europe.
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| Posted: Wed, 2nd Mar 2011 20:04 Post subject: |
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| consolitis wrote: | | Because it's about Battlefield 3 and Crysis 2? |
But it's about MLAA and SRAA too, which are hardware features.
Don't get me wrong, I got nothing against posting it here since it gets much more visibility but the hardware forum needs some love too dude. 
| boundle (thoughts on cracking AITD) wrote: | | i guess thouth if without a legit key the installation was rolling back we are all fucking then |
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JBeckman
VIP Member
Posts: 34549
Location: Sweden
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| Posted: Wed, 2nd Mar 2011 20:08 Post subject: |
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| Posted: Wed, 2nd Mar 2011 20:09 Post subject: |
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The article is in the OP already 
TWIN PEAKS is "something of a miracle."
"...like nothing else on television."
"a phenomenon."
"A tangled tale of sex, violence, power, junk food..."
"Like Nothing On Earth"
~ WHAT THEY'RE TRYING TO SAY CAN ONLY BE SEEN ~
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CHTUOgYNRzY
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JBeckman
VIP Member
Posts: 34549
Location: Sweden
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| Posted: Wed, 2nd Mar 2011 20:10 Post subject: |
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they always show off features like that, and then provides videos with resoliution from 2000, and images that cant be enlarged.. my ass, cant see much of diff.. and ssaa 16 looks better than sraa
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| Posted: Wed, 2nd Mar 2011 20:11 Post subject: |
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| Smikis. wrote: | | they always show off features like that, and then provides videos with resoliution from 2000, and images that cant be enlarged.. my ass, cant see much of diff.. and ssaa 16 looks better than sraa |
SSAA 16? It also runs like shit. There are big images in the PDFs I posted. edit I mean with enlarged details to compare.
TWIN PEAKS is "something of a miracle."
"...like nothing else on television."
"a phenomenon."
"A tangled tale of sex, violence, power, junk food..."
"Like Nothing On Earth"
~ WHAT THEY'RE TRYING TO SAY CAN ONLY BE SEEN ~
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CHTUOgYNRzY |
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JBeckman
VIP Member
Posts: 34549
Location: Sweden
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Werelds
Special Little Man
Posts: 15098
Location: 0100111001001100
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| Posted: Wed, 2nd Mar 2011 20:32 Post subject: |
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| JBeckman wrote: | | apparently this is already in the 266.xx something NVIDIA drivers though I'm unsure how it could be activated if it even is complete at all. |
I'm pretty sure it's not there.
edit Nicely summarized Werelds!
TWIN PEAKS is "something of a miracle."
"...like nothing else on television."
"a phenomenon."
"A tangled tale of sex, violence, power, junk food..."
"Like Nothing On Earth"
~ WHAT THEY'RE TRYING TO SAY CAN ONLY BE SEEN ~
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CHTUOgYNRzY |
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| Posted: Wed, 2nd Mar 2011 20:35 Post subject: |
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Will this be like MLAA in that it works with most games, even those without AA support? Or is it just a feature some games will have?
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| Posted: Wed, 2nd Mar 2011 20:41 Post subject: |
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I believe this is the plan, but so far they haven't specified when it's coming etc. We only know that Crytek and DICE have experimented with it and that it's implemented as a DX11 shader.
However I wouldn't be surprised if the dx11 patch of Crysis 2 includes native support for it or a compatible driver is released with it.
TWIN PEAKS is "something of a miracle."
"...like nothing else on television."
"a phenomenon."
"A tangled tale of sex, violence, power, junk food..."
"Like Nothing On Earth"
~ WHAT THEY'RE TRYING TO SAY CAN ONLY BE SEEN ~
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CHTUOgYNRzY
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Werelds
Special Little Man
Posts: 15098
Location: 0100111001001100
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| Posted: Wed, 2nd Mar 2011 21:10 Post subject: |
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| Posted: Wed, 2nd Mar 2011 21:13 Post subject: |
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Werelds
Special Little Man
Posts: 15098
Location: 0100111001001100
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| Posted: Wed, 2nd Mar 2011 21:30 Post subject: |
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Just keep in mind that these are static shots, things like the shadow leakage you won't notice when moving. Unfortunately, the shit with the fences and other fine details will be very noticeable 
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| Posted: Wed, 2nd Mar 2011 21:47 Post subject: |
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Aside for the additional moire patterns on the fence(not a good thing) I don't see much of a difference.
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| Posted: Wed, 2nd Mar 2011 22:00 Post subject: |
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I persoanlly don't like AA, and these new techniques (MLAA/SRAA) still do not convince me. It's an illusion, the image is blurred. Nothing is smoothed, it only seems like it. This causes problems in small detail. I haven't read anything about SRAA, but afaik MLAA is severely game dependent. While in one game it can put MSAA to shame with less performance hit, in another game it's useless. Instead of this post-processing blurring and covering up, I'd much rather have HW changes. HW developers, namely monitor developers, should focus on very high resolutions already. The dot pitch in a common monitor needs to be drastically lowered so the gridforming will be very slight. It's a thing for the future though, pixels simply cannot be that small yet afaik.
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| Posted: Wed, 2nd Mar 2011 22:07 Post subject: |
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That wouldn't do anything, having 4 smaller pixels, instead of one pixel with 4 blurred samples would look the same. As your eye wouldn't be able to see the smaller pixels it would blur them into one anyway.
Actually it would likely look worse because pixels would be uniformly distributed, and sampling generally works much better if samples are stratified randomly because human eye is more tolerant to noise than patterns.
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| Posted: Wed, 2nd Mar 2011 22:25 Post subject: |
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If the dotpitch is very small the eye wont be able to discern edge forming. With super high resolutions on medium sized screens, edges will be much harder to notice. How exactly is blurring the grid formation of pixels better?
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| Posted: Wed, 2nd Mar 2011 22:27 Post subject: |
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You achieve the same effect, with no additional hardware?
Not to mention you that this method would be the equivalent of using FSAA performance wise.
Last edited by BearishSun on Wed, 2nd Mar 2011 22:29; edited 1 time in total
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Werelds
Special Little Man
Posts: 15098
Location: 0100111001001100
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| Posted: Wed, 2nd Mar 2011 22:28 Post subject: |
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| Mister_s wrote: | | I persoanlly don't like AA, and these new techniques (MLAA/SRAA) still do not convince me. It's an illusion, the image is blurred. Nothing is smoothed, it only seems like it. This causes problems in small detail. I haven't read anything about SRAA, but afaik MLAA is severely game dependent. While in one game it can put MSAA to shame with less performance hit, in another game it's useless. Instead of this post-processing blurring and covering up, I'd much rather have HW changes. HW developers, namely monitor developers, should focus on very high resolutions already. The dot pitch in a common monitor needs to be drastically lowered so the gridforming will be very slight. It's a thing for the future though, pixels simply cannot be that small yet afaik. |
Thing with MLAA is that it wasn't meant to replace MSAA in most games. The thing about MLAA is that it's a post-processing filter so to speak, which is why it is completely engine independent. As a result, it can work on (older) deferred shading engines, which typically lack AA altogether. Good example is GTA 4; in that game MLAA actually works pretty darn well and doesn't have the same overall blur effect as the game's own "AA" does. The rest of the engine is utter shite as we all know, but that's the kind of engine where MLAA comes in its own. There are also some more horrible UE3 titles (read: games where the developers were too fucking lazy to update their build) where it works wonders for example; I don't think UE3 is entirely deferred, or at all anymore.
The fact that it's done during post-processing is also its disadvantage obviously
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| Posted: Wed, 2nd Mar 2011 22:31 Post subject: |
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So blurring the edges with AA is the same as super high resolutions? And what exactly do you mean with additional hardware? A good implementation of AA isnt free.
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| Posted: Wed, 2nd Mar 2011 22:35 Post subject: |
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By additional hardware I mean the high resolution monitor. Plus a high performance graphics card that will need to shade all those pixels (MSAA for example is optimized so not all samples are shaded, only the blurred pixel result is).
Mister_s, yes that's pretty much what I'm saying. Your eye can't tell the difference. Same as if you saw a picture from far away, and then compared it to a smaller version of the picture in your hand. It wouldn't matter the far away picture is much higher resolution.
There's might be some subtle differences I am not aware of though.
P.S.
I'm talking primarily about MSAA, which doesn't just blur the edges in postprocessing, but actually samples multiple subpixels and averages the color.
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| Posted: Thu, 3rd Mar 2011 11:39 Post subject: |
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I thought MLAA/SRAA were here to replace FSAA/MSAA, that's how it was advertised on many sites when the tech was announced. After reading some more about it, Nvidia/Ati seem to want to use it as an additional post-processig step. So lower the MSAA levels --> performance win --> MLAA/SRAA. This though is not an improvement, rather a replacement of higher levels of MSAA with a lesser method to gain performance.
MSAA, especially high levels of it, are very performance heavy. The "you'd need better HW for higher resolutions" is an erroneous argument since higher levels of MSAA require very good HW too. Crank up the MSAA in Crysis for example, that'll drag down even the best GPU.
It's a matter of opinion I guess. I think very high resolution monitors are very necessary since it not only is good for games, but for other applications too. Since we cannot stop using square pixels, upping the resolution to a high enough point so that grid formation is not discernable anymore, is a good replacements imo.
Does any tech savvy person here now the effect of very high resolution vs. very high MSAA on performance?
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