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TSR69
Banned
Posts: 14962
Location: Republic of the Seven United Provinces
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 Posted: Fri, 2nd Jun 2017 00:07 Post subject: |
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If you like to play games, or you like to listen to music, or something else.
Does it really matter what others think of that?
Formerly known as iconized
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| Posted: Fri, 2nd Jun 2017 00:14 Post subject: |
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| TSR69 wrote: | If you like to play games, or you like to listen to music, or something else.
Does it really matter what others think of that? |
I think you completely missed my point. I don't even know how to answer your question and you literally just mindfucked me.
2011 - 2016 Build • Fractal Design R5 Titanium (Window) • i5-2500K @ 4,5GHz • Corsair Hydro h115i • ASRock Fatal1ty P67 Performance • 2x4Gb G.Skill Ripjaws F3-10666CL9-4GBRL • EVGA GeForce GTX 970 SSC ACX 2.0+ • Corsair RM550(W) PSU • 2x Samsung 850 Evo (120gb/500gb) •
2018 - x Build • Fractal Design Define R6 Gunmetal • Intel Core i9 9900K • Corsair H150i Pro RGB AIO • Asus ROG MAXIMUS XI HERO • 2x16Gb Corsair Dominator Platinum DDR4-3200 • EVGA GeForce GTX 970 SSC ACX 2.0+ • Corsair HX850i PSU • 1x Samsung 970 Evo M.2, 1x Samsung 860 Evo SATA, 1x Samsung 850 Evo SATA •
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| Posted: Thu, 8th Jun 2017 16:25 Post subject: |
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I do feel the way you describe sometimes, but I don't think it's as widespread and severe as you're implying. I also think people tend to see the past through very rose-tinted glasses.
Then again, I don't really play "majority" of games, because I tend to be rather specific with my tastes. I ignore most shooters, racers and sport games, for example, and at least half of action adventures. So maybe I'm just not as irritated by the flaws and problems.
I think identifying the "passive effects" might a better starting point for discussion.
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| Posted: Thu, 8th Jun 2017 16:35 Post subject: |
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| Aquma wrote: | I do feel the way you describe sometimes, but I don't think it's as widespread and severe as you're implying. I also think people tend to see the past through very rose-tinted glasses.
Then again, I don't really play "majority" of games, because I tend to be rather specific with my tastes. I ignore most shooters, racers and sport games, for example, and at least half of action adventures. So maybe I'm just not as irritated by the flaws and problems.
I think identifying the "passive effects" might a better starting point for discussion. |
The actual upsetting part is the powerlesness I'm confronted with when it comes to this. There is just literally nothing I could do about it except for quitting the hobby or stick with it til the point it becomes unbearable and then quit. Pretty depressing imho. Unless something unforseen happens ofc. but for now (or rather since 2005 for me personally), that's how it looks like. It may be a slow process, but that's how I see it going.
Quitting it is obviously no option. I just refuse to... doing this for too long and I'm still convinced that it's one of the best forms of entertainment that do exist.
But I can't deny that it made me extremely cynical and often downright bitter...
I mean, here on the hump, we discuss this issue since years. It's not really anything new. It's just that I've never seen a thread in "The Bitching Session" about it even though that's exactly what alot of us do when it comes to this topic over and over 
I also can't expect everyone to be as invested into this hobby as me. It's just unrealistic and ofc not in my rights. So the good old "vote with your wallet" just doesn't apply in reality, sadly. At least not so far.
2011 - 2016 Build • Fractal Design R5 Titanium (Window) • i5-2500K @ 4,5GHz • Corsair Hydro h115i • ASRock Fatal1ty P67 Performance • 2x4Gb G.Skill Ripjaws F3-10666CL9-4GBRL • EVGA GeForce GTX 970 SSC ACX 2.0+ • Corsair RM550(W) PSU • 2x Samsung 850 Evo (120gb/500gb) •
2018 - x Build • Fractal Design Define R6 Gunmetal • Intel Core i9 9900K • Corsair H150i Pro RGB AIO • Asus ROG MAXIMUS XI HERO • 2x16Gb Corsair Dominator Platinum DDR4-3200 • EVGA GeForce GTX 970 SSC ACX 2.0+ • Corsair HX850i PSU • 1x Samsung 970 Evo M.2, 1x Samsung 860 Evo SATA, 1x Samsung 850 Evo SATA •
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| Posted: Thu, 8th Jun 2017 16:52 Post subject: |
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12 years ago? All this happened 20 years ago, not 12. The Playstation pretty much is the reason for the current situation.
Look back at the early 90's:
- consoles were aimed at kids but with games still fun for everyone
- home computers (Amiga, PC, Atari ST) were aimed at adults and teenagers
Enter the Playstation which attracted mass market appeal by going after the adults and teenagers. Since a Playstation was relatively cheap and an idiot could use one (read: for peasants), everyone could get one.
At the same time, the PC had taken over the home computer market and became quite popular with its FPS games and suddenly, the PC became flooded with shitty Playstation ports and developers that used to make amazing home computer games, started to churn out shitty console-centered games.
All this happened at the end of the 90's and since then it's only got worse: consoles attract filthy peasants and PC gets far too many third rate ports or games designed for consoles from the ground up.
Still, as someone who has a PS1, PS2, PS3, PS4, Xbox, Xbox 360, Gamecube, Wii, Wii U, etc. I can tell you, consoles are still leagues behind what a PC is capable of as far as games library, diversity of games and affordable games.
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| Posted: Thu, 8th Jun 2017 16:56 Post subject: |
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| red_avatar wrote: | 12 years ago? All this happened 20 years ago, not 12. The Playstation pretty much is the reason for the current situation.
Look back:
- consoles aimed at kids but with games still fun for everyone
- home computers aimed at adults and teenagers
Enter the Playstation which attracted mass market appeal by going after the adults and teenagers. Since a Playstation was cheap (read: for peasants), everyone could get one.
At the same time, the PC had taken over the home computer market and suddenly, the PC became flooded with shitty Playstation ports and developers that used to make amazing home computer games, started to churn out shitty console-centered games.
All this happened at the end of the 90's and since then it's only got worse: consoles attract filthy peasants and PC gets far too many third rate ports or games designed for consoles from the ground up. |
I actually think consoles weren't a problem at all before M$ started shitting out the first XBox. Before that, I think we still kinda happily co-existed.
So, objectively, yes, this started way before. But around 2005, I still had titles where I could invest months in without touching anything else and was satisfied.
2011 - 2016 Build • Fractal Design R5 Titanium (Window) • i5-2500K @ 4,5GHz • Corsair Hydro h115i • ASRock Fatal1ty P67 Performance • 2x4Gb G.Skill Ripjaws F3-10666CL9-4GBRL • EVGA GeForce GTX 970 SSC ACX 2.0+ • Corsair RM550(W) PSU • 2x Samsung 850 Evo (120gb/500gb) •
2018 - x Build • Fractal Design Define R6 Gunmetal • Intel Core i9 9900K • Corsair H150i Pro RGB AIO • Asus ROG MAXIMUS XI HERO • 2x16Gb Corsair Dominator Platinum DDR4-3200 • EVGA GeForce GTX 970 SSC ACX 2.0+ • Corsair HX850i PSU • 1x Samsung 970 Evo M.2, 1x Samsung 860 Evo SATA, 1x Samsung 850 Evo SATA •
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| Posted: Thu, 8th Jun 2017 17:21 Post subject: |
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on my nintendo 8 bit , where some of the hardest games i have ever played.
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JBeckman
VIP Member
Posts: 34986
Location: Sweden
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| Posted: Thu, 8th Jun 2017 18:28 Post subject: |
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Well they kinda had to be, not that much storage space on the NES cartridge so games compensated for short length with anything from heavy grinding being required to almost cheap or unfair battles and extremely vague hints on what to do and where to go although the English localization wasn't exactly stellar for some of these games so it could also have been that for things like JRPGS and the like.
Kinda forcing the player to learn the game level by level and the various encounters and movement patters, once you did the game itself was pretty brief.
(Even so a few NES games had a surprising amount of content and actual length to them.)
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| Posted: Thu, 8th Jun 2017 19:47 Post subject: |
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| m3th0d2008 wrote: | | Aquma wrote: | I do feel the way you describe sometimes, but I don't think it's as widespread and severe as you're implying. I also think people tend to see the past through very rose-tinted glasses.
Then again, I don't really play "majority" of games, because I tend to be rather specific with my tastes. I ignore most shooters, racers and sport games, for example, and at least half of action adventures. So maybe I'm just not as irritated by the flaws and problems.
I think identifying the "passive effects" might a better starting point for discussion. |
The actual upsetting part is the powerlesness I'm confronted with when it comes to this. There is just literally nothing I could do about it except for quitting the hobby or stick with it til the point it becomes unbearable and then quit. Pretty depressing imho. Unless something unforseen happens ofc. but for now (or rather since 2005 for me personally), that's how it looks like. It may be a slow process, but that's how I see it going.
Quitting it is obviously no option. I just refuse to... doing this for too long and I'm still convinced that it's one of the best forms of entertainment that do exist.
But I can't deny that it made me extremely cynical and often downright bitter...
I mean, here on the hump, we discuss this issue since years. It's not really anything new. It's just that I've never seen a thread in "The Bitching Session" about it even though that's exactly what alot of us do when it comes to this topic over and over
I also can't expect everyone to be as invested into this hobby as me. It's just unrealistic and ofc not in my rights. So the good old "vote with your wallet" just doesn't apply in reality, sadly. At least not so far. |
Yeah, I get that powerslessnes, I do feel it sometimes. Most often when a franchise I used to love gets butchered so it can be sold to different audience. And yeah, I do agree that voting with the wallet in these kinds of situations is a myth - it just doesn't work like that. But I think there's a second side to that coin, and it's that the bitterness you feel kinda... takes over. You (not meaning you specifically now, just in general) start looking for holes in everything, idealizing old titles and nothing is ever good enough anymore. Even solid, well made games just can't spark the sort of interest and emotion you expect and crave and you put them away feeling something is missing. But is it really, or is that just the bitterness talking?
As for consoles... I know what I'll write now is not a popular opinion here, but personally I don't think consoles are a problem at all. Neither 20 or 12 years ago, nor today.
I mean, sure, some simplification happened because games had to work on a gamepad, and since last generation there are also technical constraints to consider (in PSX era consoles were on the forefront of performance, actually, it changed during PS2's lifetime) - games had to be scaled down because of lack of powah. But that's really not as much of an issue nowadays. Control schemes stopped being a problem since Halo proved FPS games can work well on a console. Other, more problematic genres just avoid these platforms altogether, but we still get strategy games despite that. And there's just no denying that nowadays games look prettier and are bigger than they ever were. I do wish PC was treated more equally as a platform, though.
The crux of the issue is the fact that there are many, many more gamers nowadays and most of them are a different kind than us old goats. They want different things, they don't need challenge and complexity. Even older gamers, now mature people, with kids and so on, often just can't find the time for "hardcore" gaming and opt to play casually instead. So devs cater to that audience. I guess you could make an argument that the market grew so much because of consoles, but if they weren't here it would mean one of two things. It would either grow anyway, just slower, or it would've stayed small... but that comes with its own set of issues, the biggest one being the fact that game budgets would've stayed small too. That means that, while we could've gotten many cool games that aren't being done anymore, some great stuff that we did get would've never been possible. The scale, attention to detail, widespread voice acting and mo cap, even graphical advancement - things we now kinda take for granted.
I guess what I'm trying to say is that what happened to the gaming industry simply had to happen, there was no way around it. But it's also not all bad.
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| Posted: Thu, 8th Jun 2017 20:37 Post subject: |
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| m3th0d2008 wrote: |
I actually think consoles weren't a problem at all before M$ started shitting out the first XBox. Before that, I think we still kinda happily co-existed.
So, objectively, yes, this started way before. But around 2005, I still had titles where I could invest months in without touching anything else and was satisfied. |
Erm, the PS2 was far more guilty of causing shitty ports. Sure, Xbox was guilty for a few shitty ports (Deus Ex Invisible War for one) but on the whole, the PS2 was far more popular so had a much wider impact on PC games getting consolised.
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| Posted: Tue, 12th Sep 2017 23:49 Post subject: |
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| red_avatar wrote: | | m3th0d2008 wrote: |
I actually think consoles weren't a problem at all before M$ started shitting out the first XBox. Before that, I think we still kinda happily co-existed.
So, objectively, yes, this started way before. But around 2005, I still had titles where I could invest months in without touching anything else and was satisfied. |
Erm, the PS2 was far more guilty of causing shitty ports. Sure, Xbox was guilty for a few shitty ports (Deus Ex Invisible War for one) but on the whole, the PS2 was far more popular so had a much wider impact on PC games getting consolised. |
While that is ofc true, the difference is though that M$ has ofc bigger relationship with the PC market than Sony does. Just imagine if M$ would've put all that manpower and money into advancing the PC gaming experience instead of jumping into the way more competitive console market... and it's undeniable that they were actively hurting PC gaming to different degrees... which always baffled but didn't surprise me. That's why I put the focus on them.
2011 - 2016 Build • Fractal Design R5 Titanium (Window) • i5-2500K @ 4,5GHz • Corsair Hydro h115i • ASRock Fatal1ty P67 Performance • 2x4Gb G.Skill Ripjaws F3-10666CL9-4GBRL • EVGA GeForce GTX 970 SSC ACX 2.0+ • Corsair RM550(W) PSU • 2x Samsung 850 Evo (120gb/500gb) •
2018 - x Build • Fractal Design Define R6 Gunmetal • Intel Core i9 9900K • Corsair H150i Pro RGB AIO • Asus ROG MAXIMUS XI HERO • 2x16Gb Corsair Dominator Platinum DDR4-3200 • EVGA GeForce GTX 970 SSC ACX 2.0+ • Corsair HX850i PSU • 1x Samsung 970 Evo M.2, 1x Samsung 860 Evo SATA, 1x Samsung 850 Evo SATA •
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