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 Posted: Tue, 19th Jan 2021 20:22 Post subject: Discussion boards, discord etc are getting truly tiresome |
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Nalo
nothing
Posts: 13438
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| Posted: Tue, 19th Jan 2021 20:27 Post subject: |
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Last edited by Nalo on Wed, 3rd Jul 2024 05:41; edited 4 times in total
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| Posted: Tue, 19th Jan 2021 20:30 Post subject: |
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Naturally some subjects would invite this, but i wouldn't made a thread because people argue about my political opinions... THis is-.. About everything
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Ankh
Posts: 23226
Location: Trelleborg
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Nalo
nothing
Posts: 13438
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| Posted: Tue, 19th Jan 2021 20:34 Post subject: |
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Last edited by Nalo on Wed, 3rd Jul 2024 05:41; edited 3 times in total
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Nalo
nothing
Posts: 13438
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| Posted: Tue, 19th Jan 2021 20:38 Post subject: |
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Last edited by Nalo on Wed, 3rd Jul 2024 05:41; edited 3 times in total
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harry_theone
Posts: 11150
Location: The Land of Thread Reports
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couleur
[Moderator] Janitor
Posts: 14081
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| Posted: Tue, 19th Jan 2021 21:23 Post subject: |
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It has always been like that on the net, no?
"Enlightenment is man's emergence from his self-imposed nonage. Nonage is the inability to use one's own understanding without another's guidance. This nonage is self-imposed if its cause lies not in lack of understanding but in indecision and lack of courage to use one's own mind without another's guidance. Dare to know! (Sapere aude.) "Have the courage to use your own understanding," is therefore the motto of the enlightenment."
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Ankh
Posts: 23226
Location: Trelleborg
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DXWarlock
VIP Member
Posts: 11422
Location: Florida, USA
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| Posted: Tue, 19th Jan 2021 21:34 Post subject: Re: Discussion boards, discord etc are getting truly tiresom |
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| Stormwolf wrote: | Starting to know how Sabin's been feeling. Voice an opinion regardless if it's good or bad, just not "with the stream" so to say and you'll have to defend yourself for hours and hours if you don't just go: fuck it and ramble lunacy and walk away and getting banned in the process route like i can do, when i've had enough 
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If the internet (or life in general) did not have people that challenged my opinions and giving opposing views..it would be a boring echo chamber comfortable conformability. Id go to a church or some focused club or such if I wanted everyone to think and form only opinions that reinforce mine.
And who says you have to defend yourself for hours if you don't want to. Don't stay to argue the validity of it. I mean at that point your just admitting "I feel a need to validate and expand on why I hold that opinion, as much as they need to about why they do not".(Which I enjoy doing, you not so much.)
So, why argue for hours over your opinion? State what you think, and let it be. You did you part of voicing what you think. Wanting to DEFEND why you think that is a whole different reason to state it to start with.
If you do not care if they agree, don't hit the ball back when they serve it. Can't have cake and eat it too of "I want to vocally state my opinion to you, without your feedback and own opinion on it".
I fundamentally disagree with some people on here. I don't think less of them or feel them countering with a whole different viewpoint as 'tiresome'. Id help them out if I can if they need it, or have a night out having beers with them, as quickly as someone I totally agree with. I can disagree and debate why we are different for hours. You learn nothing new of how people get to where they did, by talking to only people you agree with.
Anything else to me would be just the lazy mindset of "there is two types of people, those that tell me they agree..and they total assholes that tell me they do not".
-We don't control what happens to us in life, but we control how we respond to what happens in life.
-Hard times create strong men, strong men create good times, good times create weak men, and weak men create hard times. -G. Michael Hopf
Disclaimer: Post made by me are of my own creation. A delusional mind relayed in text form.
Last edited by DXWarlock on Tue, 19th Jan 2021 21:50; edited 2 times in total
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| Posted: Tue, 19th Jan 2021 21:50 Post subject: |
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Ah excellent @DXWarlock post what i couldn't be bothered to post. Spot on.
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DXWarlock
VIP Member
Posts: 11422
Location: Florida, USA
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| Posted: Tue, 19th Jan 2021 21:50 Post subject: |
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Thinking on it, I find it odd most people have no issue and enjoy debating over beers or handing out etc how their sports team is better than their friends, or how this movie character is better than the one they like..or dozens of "Here is my opinion, and why I think yours is off" laughing and calling bullshit out when its 'light topics'.
But then consider some topics 'sacred ground' they do not want to hear others opinions, or opinions of their opinions, if it differs. You can disagree totally and still have a civil (if heated..just like for sports teams) conversation about it in the same framing as 'my team vs yours and why I think mine is the right one'.
Both can get just as passionate, and loyalty bound, and ridiculous on reasonings. But why does most people consider one healthy social banter on preferences. Yet the others toxic closed mindedness?
-We don't control what happens to us in life, but we control how we respond to what happens in life.
-Hard times create strong men, strong men create good times, good times create weak men, and weak men create hard times. -G. Michael Hopf
Disclaimer: Post made by me are of my own creation. A delusional mind relayed in text form.
Last edited by DXWarlock on Tue, 19th Jan 2021 21:55; edited 2 times in total
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Frant
King's Bounty
Posts: 24433
Location: Your Mom
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| Posted: Tue, 19th Jan 2021 21:53 Post subject: |
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I don't use twatter, fecesbook (except for fb messenger to keep in touch with friends and bandmates), discord etc. simply because I think those platforms are made to make the users so self-centered.. "hey, look at me, I need attention".
That's why the hump is my only regular anti-social connection.
I definitely disagree with a lot that is written here and I can go into arguments with people (usually in World News). But as far as I'm concerned any disagreements I may have with someone stays there. In movie/game/hardware/etc. threads I don't bring any of that over since we're all so much more than just some personal opinions about politics and issues from news outlets and social media nonsense.
If I couldn't do that I'd have left this place years ago. Besides, I lost interest in going into long debates/arguments a long time ago (I guess I wore myself out) and only get involved like that pretty rare these days. I tend to post either my thoughts/opinions/knowledge or facts/explanations about the subject matter in question (unless it's about Trump).
Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn!
"Thank you to God for making me an Atheist" - Ricky Gervais
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DXWarlock
VIP Member
Posts: 11422
Location: Florida, USA
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| Posted: Tue, 19th Jan 2021 22:02 Post subject: |
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@Frant
Same. I don't think ill of anyone here since I been here. Same reason I never put anyone on ignore (Have gotten close, but thought the better of it in the end). Me disagreeing with them even if down to the core in one or two threads, doesn't mean I should write them off on the forum members as a whole.
I admit I can be a bit bullish and appearance of hackles raised at times.
But I think (or hope) its just the lack of context text only conveys. Its no different than hearing two friends at a bar arguing who is the best goalie this year. A lot of "OHH that's bullshit and you know it" and "You are talking out your arse!" thrown around. But you can tell they are just having a fundamentally passionate, yet harmless, disagreement that lies outside of their friendship.
-We don't control what happens to us in life, but we control how we respond to what happens in life.
-Hard times create strong men, strong men create good times, good times create weak men, and weak men create hard times. -G. Michael Hopf
Disclaimer: Post made by me are of my own creation. A delusional mind relayed in text form.
Last edited by DXWarlock on Tue, 19th Jan 2021 22:06; edited 2 times in total
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Frant
King's Bounty
Posts: 24433
Location: Your Mom
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| Posted: Tue, 19th Jan 2021 22:04 Post subject: |
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That pretty much sums it up alright.
Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn!
"Thank you to God for making me an Atheist" - Ricky Gervais
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harry_theone
Posts: 11150
Location: The Land of Thread Reports
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| Posted: Tue, 19th Jan 2021 22:07 Post subject: |
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People like me also lost interest because these arguments have turned far more hostile in the past years, I can definitely can get behind that, the growth of that is undeniable and far different from simple "drama". So it's usually easier to "nuke" people when you know they will not listen nor stopping mentioning the past during every interaction you have with them.
What DXWarlock said is essentially the ideal situation and outcome but this is almost never the case. People feel any sort of criticism is a personal attack and always a final verdict. Similarly people fail to back down if provided the necessary input to prove they are wrong, they rather exit and deny every single bit.
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Frant
King's Bounty
Posts: 24433
Location: Your Mom
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| Posted: Tue, 19th Jan 2021 22:24 Post subject: |
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Years ago before I became mod (I can't even remember when that happened anymore), the days of AnimalMother etc. I was very argumentative and used rhetorical methods to try to pick apart my opponents argument and I was fairly good at it. Back in 2007 or so (again, I can't remember the exact years in question but it was around that time) I was very active in WN and quite aggressive in my posts. I was banned once for calling whoever I was having an argument with "buttpuppy"
I was very easily triggered as well back then, taking meek insults very serious. I still have some buttons left that can be pushed but it's very unlikely that I'll get all worked up about it.
Later I realised that what I saw as a challenge and opportunity to test my opinions against others by using tough rhetoric and pointing out every little fallacy in the post I responded to I was probably perceived as very aggressive and annoying. At the time I had the idea that testing my opinion against other peoples opinion was a good way to revise my own opinion in case a flaw in my reasoning was pointed out. Unfortunately I was probably too full of myself to learn enough from those "battles" since I was very stubborn.
It's only in recent years that I've realised how many of my opinions and perspectives have changed since back then and I do believe some of it has to do with all the argumentation and heated debates I took part of where I had to think about what I believed was right and put it into words. That process which lasted for years probably changed how I think about a lot of things even today.
The last ~5+ years I've left all of that behind (well, 95% of it anyway, I can still get emotionally involved but tend to lose interest quickly). Nowadays when things heat up I just feel "Bah, I don't have the energy or will to do this" and leave the thread or close the browser and watch a movie or play a game or something.
So to anyone that was one of my "opponents" back then, please forgive my tunnel vision and lack of perspective as well as any insults I threw your way. I am trying to be conscious about being humble (but I'm no pushover, I'll bite the hand if it's looking like it's going to slap my face). 
Aaaanyway, about this comment:
| Quote: | | Similarly people fail to back down if provided the necessary input to prove they are wrong, they rather exit and deny every single bit. |
Not everyone have the gift of being able to express their ideas/arguments in an organized and thought out way. It probably leads to frustration and emotional distress and that's where the obstinacy comes in. At least I believe that's partly the reason.
Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn!
"Thank you to God for making me an Atheist" - Ricky Gervais
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harry_theone
Posts: 11150
Location: The Land of Thread Reports
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DXWarlock
VIP Member
Posts: 11422
Location: Florida, USA
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| Posted: Wed, 20th Jan 2021 00:10 Post subject: |
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| harry_theone wrote: |
It's also as much wishful thinking from me as it was from DXWarlock but we can always hope and strive for improvements on that in the future. |
I try to uphold that, sometimes I fail. But I at least try to strive to be that way. I hope no one takes what I say here on the forums as intended malice.
There is very very few people in my life that an argument has made me stop talking to them, or actively dislike them.
I can get frustrated with you, and even verbally heated. But doesn't mean I dislike you. Same as I argue/fight with my kids from time to time as parents do, doesn't mean I dislike them
It takes actually doing something to me with either purposely intended malice or harmful disregard, beyond just words, for me to turn the switch off and go "You are again now just another random person in the world to me". but even then its not revenge, or hate, or spite that drives it..it just turns to... Indifference towards them? Not sure the right way to phrase it. Not sure if its a sign of sociopathy or not. But its just a light switch of "I turned this on manually for you, now its off..you are back to a person I know the name of."
So I don't have any hate for anyone here. The switch is still on for everyone here to me no ones given me a reason to turn it off (And not sure how anyone could given the setting we are in).
If I bumped into anyone here on the street and we somehow knew who each of us was. I'd want to hang out and get a drink or something, some lunch and chat. We might decide "That was a bad idea! we do not get along as hang out friends" but even then I still wont dislike you, just agree we don't enjoy being face to face with each other 
-We don't control what happens to us in life, but we control how we respond to what happens in life.
-Hard times create strong men, strong men create good times, good times create weak men, and weak men create hard times. -G. Michael Hopf
Disclaimer: Post made by me are of my own creation. A delusional mind relayed in text form.
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harry_theone
Posts: 11150
Location: The Land of Thread Reports
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| Posted: Wed, 20th Jan 2021 01:02 Post subject: |
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| Frant wrote: | | So to anyone that was one of my "opponents" back then, please forgive my tunnel vision and lack of perspective as well as any insults I threw your way. |
The muslim brotherhood wholeheartedly accepts your apology. |
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Frant
King's Bounty
Posts: 24433
Location: Your Mom
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| Posted: Wed, 20th Jan 2021 03:46 Post subject: |
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| Posted: Wed, 20th Jan 2021 09:06 Post subject: |
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Internet arguments cannot be won, because they never end.
You either have a lot of time to kill, and then you fatigue your opponent. Or your opponent has more time, then he fatigues you. This has always been so.
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deelix
PDIP Member
Posts: 32062
Location: Norway
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| Posted: Wed, 20th Jan 2021 12:15 Post subject: |
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Question is; is it worth spending a huge amount of time when it really doesnt give you anything in return? Nobody admits loosing an argument anyway. It just leaves you sad, angry, bitter and so on...
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Ankh
Posts: 23226
Location: Trelleborg
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| Posted: Wed, 20th Jan 2021 12:18 Post subject: |
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| deelix wrote: | | Question is; is it worth spending a huge amount of time when it really doesnt give you anything in return? Nobody admits loosing an argument anyway. It just leaves you sad, angry, bitter and so on... |
Exactly - nobody ever admits defeat. Even if you do annihilate them, they just turn into personal insults rather than accept they are wrong.
shitloads of new stuff in my pc. Cant keep track of it all.
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| Posted: Wed, 20th Jan 2021 13:06 Post subject: |
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Not true. I was a strong defender of Islam and look at me now: Full on atheist. I was wrong, Frant was right.
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| Posted: Wed, 20th Jan 2021 13:59 Post subject: |
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| Radicalus wrote: | Internet arguments cannot be won, because they never end.
You either have a lot of time to kill, and then you fatigue your opponent. Or your opponent has more time, then he fatigues you. This has always been so. |
Exactly, but the visciousness has increased the last few years if you ask me.
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| Posted: Wed, 20th Jan 2021 14:09 Post subject: |
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| Stormwolf wrote: | | Radicalus wrote: | Internet arguments cannot be won, because they never end.
You either have a lot of time to kill, and then you fatigue your opponent. Or your opponent has more time, then he fatigues you. This has always been so. |
Exactly, but the visciousness has increased the last few years if you ask me. |
Just have a life outside the internet, and all shall be well. Who cares how vicious random internet strangers are on a random forum. Just shut them out, when they get toxic.
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Ankh
Posts: 23226
Location: Trelleborg
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