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 Posted: Sat, 21st May 2005 01:23 Post subject: Starforce 3 - killing the PC market? |
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I believe in marketing.
The best way to sell many copies of a game is making it popular.
A game that is copied by 500 000 will sell ALOT more than a game that is copied by 0 persons.
The proof?
The PC market would not have been what it is today without piracy.
There is a reason why Quake 4 is coming.
Without piracy we would never have seen the first Quake game.
This doesnt justify piracy.
But piracy is the best way to market a good game.
The bad games are the losers in a market with piracy.
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| Posted: Sat, 21st May 2005 09:12 Post subject: Re: Starforce 3 - killing the PC market? |
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| Grimsrud5000 wrote: | I believe in marketing.
The best way to sell many copies of a game is making it popular.
A game that is copied by 500 000 will sell ALOT more than a game that is copied by 0 persons.
The proof?
The PC market would not have been what it is today without piracy.
There is a reason why Quake 4 is coming.
Without piracy we would never have seen the first Quake game.
This doesnt justify piracy.
But piracy is the best way to market a good game.
The bad games are the losers in a market with piracy. |
you can say what u want but when i go checking the selling charts of pc games here i find in the last 2 weeks: 1-Guild Wars 2-Splinter cell Chaos Theory 3-World og warcraft... 3 games that u have to buy to play... as long as games not cracked or pretty horrible crakced (WoW) sell this much, i think protections are doing their job
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| Posted: Sat, 21st May 2005 10:51 Post subject: Re: Starforce 3 - killing the PC market? |
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| Selt wrote: | | Grimsrud5000 wrote: | I believe in marketing.
The best way to sell many copies of a game is making it popular.
A game that is copied by 500 000 will sell ALOT more than a game that is copied by 0 persons.
The proof?
The PC market would not have been what it is today without piracy.
There is a reason why Quake 4 is coming.
Without piracy we would never have seen the first Quake game.
This doesnt justify piracy.
But piracy is the best way to market a good game.
The bad games are the losers in a market with piracy. |
you can say what u want but when i go checking the selling charts of pc games here i find in the last 2 weeks: 1-Guild Wars 2-Splinter cell Chaos Theory 3-World og warcraft... 3 games that u have to buy to play... as long as games not cracked or pretty horrible crakced (WoW) sell this much, i think protections are doing their job |
I agree with you Selt... Grimsrud5000 you wrote the stupidest thing I ever read... CD Protections help Developers sell the games, not prevent them from sellling... Of course there's not a very big difference between selling a good game when it's cracked or not... but still there's some... When I like game I always buy. There's no difference for me, cracked or not... I think Original games are always better than downloaded... plus you give developers what they deserve...
Last edited by bigboy177 on Sat, 21st May 2005 11:36; edited 1 time in total
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Jenni
Banned
Posts: 9526
Location: England.
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| Posted: Sat, 21st May 2005 11:14 Post subject: |
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Well put it this way. If the Play Station One couldn't be chipped. Would it have become the most popular console in history?
I think not.
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| Posted: Sat, 21st May 2005 11:38 Post subject: |
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| Jenni wrote: | Well put it this way. If the Play Station One couldn't be chipped. Would it have become the most popular console in history?
I think not. |
Why not...
I think that great games create a great console... Other consoles didn't have as good games as PSX had... Nowadays XBOX is as popular as PS2... only GC stands out.... not because it's not moddable... but because of shitty games...
I'm sure of one thing though... Games' piracy doesn't affect sales as much as the publishers claim it does... Good games sell great... poor games don't sell at all no matter if they're pirated or not...
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crob
Posts: 338
Location: UK and USA - God Bless America. God Bless The UK.
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| Posted: Sat, 21st May 2005 13:32 Post subject: |
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You guys are forgetting something.....
Look at the pc market.... its ONLY sequels!
Why? Because they still generate money...
No game company can take the risks to develop new games..
(of course there are totally new games.. but compare the situation with the market 10 years ago)
A quote from a study by PriceWaterhouseCooper:
"the PC game market will continue to shrink through the forecast period. PwC expects unit sales of PCs to drop to 47 million in 2008 from 53 million in 2003. Spending on PC games will also plummet from their peak of $2 billion in 1999 to $1 billion in 2008. This continual decline in PC game usage also holds true for every region in the world."P
Piracy made PSone the biggest console.
Piracy made Xbox the biggest in the Western world.
Piracy is the best way to spread good games.
Bad games suffer.
Learn your history.
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| Posted: Sat, 21st May 2005 16:45 Post subject: |
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the days when u went into a store and simply bought a game without knowing how it plays and whatnot are over...
if im to spend money on any software, i want to know exactly what i get in return
crappy demos dont cut it, wack install systems dont cut it, etc
dl, test the full game, if its worthy of the money, purchase
same with music.. back in the day i went and bought cd's blindly depending on the name and the cover etc, which turned out to be a loss of money most of the time, those days are over, people adjust and get spoiled, but demand more.
Turn Down That Awful Music!
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| Posted: Sat, 21st May 2005 17:05 Post subject: |
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| KrayZJool wrote: | the days when u went into a store and simply bought a game without knowing how it plays and whatnot are over...
if im to spend money on any software, i want to know exactly what i get in return
crappy demos dont cut it, wack install systems dont cut it, etc
dl, test the full game, if its worthy of the money, purchase
same with music.. back in the day i went and bought cd's blindly depending on the name and the cover etc, which turned out to be a loss of money most of the time, those days are over, people adjust and get spoiled, but demand more. |
Well in the future you're either going to have to judge games by demo's, or not play any at all. Your choice.
Anyway, most good games stores allow you to return games withing 10 days if you don't like them.
"Techniclly speaking, Beta-Manboi didnt inject Burberry_Massi with Benz, he injected him with liquid that had air bubbles in it, which caused benz." - House M.D
"Faith without logic is the same as knowledge without understanding; meaningless"
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| Posted: Sat, 21st May 2005 17:27 Post subject: |
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| AnimalMother wrote: | | KrayZJool wrote: | the days when u went into a store and simply bought a game without knowing how it plays and whatnot are over...
if im to spend money on any software, i want to know exactly what i get in return
crappy demos dont cut it, wack install systems dont cut it, etc
dl, test the full game, if its worthy of the money, purchase
same with music.. back in the day i went and bought cd's blindly depending on the name and the cover etc, which turned out to be a loss of money most of the time, those days are over, people adjust and get spoiled, but demand more. |
Well in the future you're either going to have to judge games by demo's, or not play any at all. Your choice.
Anyway, most good games stores allow you to return games withing 10 days if you don't like them. |
Why do you think that you'll have to buy games, or try demos...?
Scene will be forever... so checking the full version of game will be available always...
You'll see that every new protection will be beaten after some time...
SF3 is very innovative and that's the cause why groups need so much time to study and beat it... I think that many years will pass till we'll see another such innovative protection...
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| Posted: Sat, 21st May 2005 18:24 Post subject: |
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Haha, scene will be forever, good joke.
All good things my friend, all good things.
"Techniclly speaking, Beta-Manboi didnt inject Burberry_Massi with Benz, he injected him with liquid that had air bubbles in it, which caused benz." - House M.D
"Faith without logic is the same as knowledge without understanding; meaningless"
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| Posted: Sat, 21st May 2005 18:51 Post subject: |
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| AnimalMother wrote: | Haha, scene will be forever, good joke.
All good things my friend, all good things. |
Why do you think it's a joke... ?
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| Posted: Sat, 21st May 2005 19:32 Post subject: |
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I agree with bigboy177
scene is here to stay sometimes gets delayed cause of new protections but they will not last forever..when someone is determined to defeat it it will be defeated. even now 95%(maybe number is even higher) of all pc games get released... Don't forget that Safedisc and Securom helps starforce to stay allive... if all games had starforce3 then it was already been defeated with an fast cracking way.
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| Posted: Sun, 22nd May 2005 01:20 Post subject: |
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I think that starforce 3 will be beaten, just give it some time. The past has shown us that ANY copy-protection will be beatable over time. I understand that daemon tools and alcohol (even olli from clonecd and gamejack) are pretty far in emulating a starforce 3 image.
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| Posted: Sun, 22nd May 2005 16:08 Post subject: Yawn |
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Most people who download games don't buy them afterwards, fact.
Nearly all of those who don't buy a game after its' protection has held up for over a month wouldn't have bought it anyway, fact.
The loss of sales in the PC market is more down to sales in consoles and consoles becoming more mainstream and advanced, fact.
BTW Those wittering on about how popular piracy has made games consoles.. these consoles are sold at a loss with the hope of making the money back on games licensing and sales. Those who download console games are costing the manufacturers money, they lose money on selling you the machine then don't get it back as you don't buy any games.
Trust me I don't really think MS give a shit about the sales of the X-Box, they care more about how much money it has cost them. Sales are a marketing number, without the dollars that come from it shareholders won't give a shit.
By your reckoning all console games should be free of charge, this way a manufacturer as they go bust can say they had the most popular console in history.
Just another minor point, I would bet that 95% of those who claim to refuse to buy a game as it has Starforce had no intention of buying it anyway.
Sorry if the truth hurts those on a sanctimonious streak trying to portray themselves as helping the future of PC gaming by downloading the games but that's the way it is.
Is Starforce killing the PC market? Nah. PC market is killing itself with the endless load of turgid crap and sequels that are being thrown at us from developers. Personally I couldn't care less for the tenth iteration of an EA Sports game. Some console games leave PC games in the dirt, and let's face it, they should as they are made to do that stuff 
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| Posted: Sun, 22nd May 2005 17:08 Post subject: |
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i bought hitman2:sa last year because it's an old game and i couldn't find it to leech when i wanted to play it... spending 10eu for a great game like that didn't bother me at all (even when it wasn't the english version that i was looking for), but when the prices are rediculous, like 45eu for star wars jedi outcast lets say... that would make me turn away and find it by other means
leech, test full game, if its worthy, purchase (as i said before)
Turn Down That Awful Music!
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spankie
VIP Member
Posts: 2958
Location: Belgium
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| Posted: Sun, 22nd May 2005 17:12 Post subject: |
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oki, im not gonna reply on the first post, because we simply don't know.
There hasnt been a deep investigation on the effects of piracy on game sellings.
It is true that pc games market has declined, but at the other hand overal games market has grown.
10 years ago there was PC and PS. Now there is PC, PS, PS2, xbox, DVDs movies, Gameboy advance, ngage, cellulars etc.
All things that werent there in 10 years ago.
People cant spend all their money on games anymore, there just a bigger market.
Same with music. Recent investigations show that the decline in music sales isnt caused by piracy, but by a bigger market. CD sales continu to decline, but incomes continu to grow (music DVDs, ringtones -> biggest earner in 2004 for music industry  ).
Is piracy the big monster? I could accept a yes for movie industry.
Because a movie is only 2h fun for 5-6-7€ or $ or whatever curreny. and you can get it for 0 now. you can stay inside, watch when you want to watch it.
But then again, cinema decrease are partially compensated by DVD incomes.
Games at the other hand have bigger value for their money. You have it at home, and can play it whenever you want.
But then again that was not what i wanted to say.
I wanted to react on the shit games era
| Quote: |
Is Starforce killing the PC market? Nah. PC market is killing itself with the endless load of turgid crap and sequels that are being thrown at us from developers. Personally I couldn't care less for the tenth iteration of an EA Sports game. Some console games leave PC games in the dirt, and let's face it, they should as they are made to do that stuf |
I have to say that 4-5 years ago i bought my games because they rocked.
I bought some classics such as rollercoaster tycoon, simcity 3000, Age of empires2, Red Alert serie, Half-life, civilization 2.
Do we see any of these games now? Im kinda afraid to say yes, BUT.
Yes we see them, sequels of it....... over and over again.
Do we see new games with the same atmosphere? No
We see shit games that are based on movies  EA crap games and strategy that for some reason went 3D.
Imho the biggest problem in the game industry is that there are 2 generations of gamers.
1.) The commodore, Amige, Nintendo, old games generation. In which i count myself, and im only 20 years old. I personally think that half life is a kickass game. I remember the old games, they were 10kb later 1 mb, later a CDROM. That was huge.
And then there is a newer generation that was born when there was already 3D kickass game 14 yr 15 yr old people and younger
2.) they only want 3D games, state of the art graphics. They are the future generation of games buyers. And their demands push the developers in the direction they are in now. graphics games that suck.
Imho the new games al just suck donkey balls. They are boring and complicated.
These days im playing simfarm, rollercoaster tycoon 1, civilization 3, locomotion.
Only oldies.
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spankie
VIP Member
Posts: 2958
Location: Belgium
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| Posted: Sun, 22nd May 2005 17:14 Post subject: |
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prices make it boohoo too.
Want proof?
I bought a gamecube +1 game for 100 €.
And 4 games for 100€.
Thats more spent on my cube in 1 year than on games in the last 5 years..
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| Posted: Sun, 22nd May 2005 18:21 Post subject: |
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spankie
VIP Member
Posts: 2958
Location: Belgium
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| Posted: Sun, 22nd May 2005 20:56 Post subject: |
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@Zion
we have DL limit of 10G/month + Gamecube is Mini DVD + i dont have DVD writer + i dont have mini DVDr's + things get stripped out in rips.
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| Posted: Sun, 22nd May 2005 21:46 Post subject: |
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| Posted: Sun, 22nd May 2005 21:56 Post subject: |
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| Posted: Sun, 22nd May 2005 22:30 Post subject: |
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| Posted: Mon, 23rd May 2005 00:17 Post subject: |
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| spankie wrote: | @Zion
we have DL limit of 10G/month + Gamecube is Mini DVD + i dont have DVD writer + i dont have mini DVDr's + things get stripped out in rips. |
OH ok, fair enough, altough you can use normal DVD on it and only garbage is removed from disk (blanked space), not any content of game !!
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spankie
VIP Member
Posts: 2958
Location: Belgium
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| Posted: Mon, 23rd May 2005 12:30 Post subject: |
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haha, i have no clue how to get a normal DVD in my gamecub, imho, the box itself is bigger than 1 disc, i think. I should check, dunno.
And things do get stripped, and movies reencoded, audio chans stripped etc...
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| Posted: Mon, 23rd May 2005 18:57 Post subject: |
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Heh went into a games store today, of the top 4 selling games 3 of them were Starforce 3 protected games. (SCCT, Pariah, Cossacks 2).
Absolutely slaughtering the PC market obviously...
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, but i can peacefully enjoy tetris or any flash based game at that instead of say Splinter Cell without whining about the protection on it or lack of crack, if it never gets cracked well, more time to beat my tetris record !!
