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Posted: Fri, 17th Mar 2023 22:01 Post subject: M.2 causing PC Freezing and unable to power off at all |
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Yesterday i've bought a SAMSUNG 980 PRO M.2 1TB (No heatsink, but used the mobo's heatsink plate) and did a clone process (Use a cloned image from a SATA SSSD and put it into the M.2, then format the SATA one and put backup files in it from a 3rd SATA SSD
Note that i had to remove a squared rubber pad from the mobo's heatsink to put the M.2, otherwise when gently pushed down the screw would not reach the hole and well, no way to screw the drive in...So i pulled the rubber pad on a side of the slot (to keep it) and placed the M.2 and heatsink over it
It was a success, it has 36-43C in temps and ran DOOM ETERNAL for 30mins without issues
The drive already had the latest firmware in it , so Samsung Magician said, so nothing was touched.
However, for a moment, i was just browsing stuff on Firefox and suddenly the keyboard and mouse didn't reacted. The keyboard's RGB turned off (the mouse was lighted up) and a few seconds after the screen would turn off, and holding the power button from the tower for +10secs wouldn't turn off the PC, so i was forced to unplug it.
Although a couple of hours ago i did a fresh install (Diskpart Clean and format, GPT, etc) of the M.2 , nothing happened yet, i wanted to ask if the issue mentioned above is specially dedicated to the M.2 process i did or it's something related to the M.2 itself already
If it happens again on this new formatted mode, should i return the device?. Note that it never happened before before buying this drive (aka using my SATA SSDs)
Also, would a M.2 (OS) in GPT and a SATA SSD (previously OS, now data) in GPT be causing conflicts?. Because when i go to the BIOS i see like 3-4 "Manager" something in the booting sequence , 2 from the 980 PRO and 2 from the SATA SSD.
Thanks in advance
ASUS X570 TUF GAMING PLUS, 32GB DDR4@2666 ,RYZEN 5800X3D (NO OC),GIGABYTE RTX 4070 Super GAMING OC, Western Digital Blue 4TB 5400RPM + SAMSUNG 860 EVO 500+1TB GB SSDs , OEM SATA DVD 22xNoctua NH-D15 Chromax Black, BenQ XL2420T Case: Be Quiet! DARK BASE PRO 901. PSU CORSAIR RM1200 SHIFT
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Posted: Fri, 17th Mar 2023 22:24 Post subject: |
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no one will be able to tell it for sure. if it happens more often you at least can test it.
so run it without the mainboard cover to make sure nothing is there to short it.
i doubt it's the cause of cloning, you would be able to power it off otherwise, but you will get problems with shitty clones sooner or later anyway.
if it still happens then, return the drive.
or return it right away, do everything again like before and hope it doesn't happen again.
i just wonder, why does the cover not fit with the pad attached? it's made to fit a ssd or not? are you sure you did nothing wrong?
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Posted: Fri, 17th Mar 2023 22:55 Post subject: |
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Last edited by paxsali on Thu, 4th Jul 2024 22:59; edited 2 times in total
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Posted: Sat, 18th Mar 2023 01:50 Post subject: |
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I can tell you for sure it is hardware related
Ryzen 5 5600, ASUS ROG STRIX B550-F GAMING WIFI II, Corsair Vengeance RGB RT 32GB 3600MHz C16, Zotac RTX 3060 Ti, Corsair RMx Series RM750x. AOC AGON AG324UX - 4K 144Hz 1ms GTG IPS FreeSync KVM
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Posted: Sat, 18th Mar 2023 07:00 Post subject: |
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For now i copied all the files from the SATA SSD into my M.2, DISKPART Cleaned the SATA so there's no traces of Windows etc (BIOS now shows M.2 as the only Windows booting device), NTFS GPT format the SATA SSD and putted all the files back again and all apps related to the drive works as intended
Now, if the freezing thing happens again with the correctly formatted + W10 install on the M.2 in the next 2-3 days i'll return it and if they can't refund me the money but "Use the ticket's value to buy/exchange something from the store" then i'll get a SAMSUNG EVO 870 1TB SATA SSD and forget about M.2s forever
There's something weird tho. As i said i wanted to put the M.2 in the heatsink plate that my ASUS X570 TUF GAMING PLUS came with (Located between PSU and GPU, coz near GPU and CPU would heat things up and there's no heatsink plat there), removing the plate, removing the blue sticker from it, inserted the M.2 diagonally as a tutorial said and pushed it down gently, but whenever i pushed it down there was the box rubber pad sticked right under the M.2, not letting me push it all the way down so the drive can get screwed
I removed the rubber thing, sticked it at another side of the mobo (next to M.2) , screwed the M.2 and the heatsink and that's it, although the M.2 wasn't "straight" placed but "slightly diagonally pushed down by the screw".
Is this position correct?. I mean, if the slot next to GPU/CPU doesn't have a heatsink that means the M.2 would also be placed the same way without errors, right?
Another thing is that when that freezing and monitor shut down happened and i pulled the plug to shut down the PC (Couildn't turn it off via tower's power button for +10 secs) there was a faint smell from the tower like if something was burned. I tried to open the panel and smell it but i couldn't figure out where it came from , even though it was over very fast
Did i fucked things up?
ASUS X570 TUF GAMING PLUS, 32GB DDR4@2666 ,RYZEN 5800X3D (NO OC),GIGABYTE RTX 4070 Super GAMING OC, Western Digital Blue 4TB 5400RPM + SAMSUNG 860 EVO 500+1TB GB SSDs , OEM SATA DVD 22xNoctua NH-D15 Chromax Black, BenQ XL2420T Case: Be Quiet! DARK BASE PRO 901. PSU CORSAIR RM1200 SHIFT
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Posted: Sat, 18th Mar 2023 07:41 Post subject: |
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No idea what you did but both slots support your SSD so it should fit just fine with the thermal pads attached without any problems. Doesn't seem to matter on your board, which slot you use. Your SSD doesn't even have chips on both sides so this is also not the problem, it's flat on the downside. Actually it should also work just fine with the rubber underneath then.
There are tutorials on how to install a nvme SSD correctly.
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Frant
King's Bounty
Posts: 24433
Location: Your Mom
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Posted: Sat, 18th Mar 2023 08:40 Post subject: |
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However, one port is dedicated (it has it's own PCIe lanes) while the other is shared with one of the SATA-ports. Check your manual and make sure you don't have anything connected to that SATA port.
Btw, the drive is NVMe and on many motherboard the upper slot is NVMe while the other is M.2 SATA.
You could put a piece of paper or similar under the 980 Pro to reduce the risk of the back of the drive shorting out from touching something on the motherboard.
Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn!
"Thank you to God for making me an Atheist" - Ricky Gervais
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Posted: Sat, 18th Mar 2023 10:12 Post subject: |
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Frant wrote: | However, one port is dedicated (it has it's own PCIe lanes) while the other is shared with one of the SATA-ports. Check your manual and make sure you don't have anything connected to that SATA port.
Btw, the drive is NVMe and on many motherboard the upper slot is NVMe while the other is M.2 SATA.
You could put a piece of paper or similar under the 980 Pro to reduce the risk of the back of the drive shorting out from touching something on the motherboard. |
i checked the manual and reddit posts and both ports should be fine. the port on the top is connected to the cpu, the other to the chipset, none steal gpu pci lanes.
i have never heard this with paper, normally this shouldn't happen or be needed, i mean the port is made to be used with a m2 ssd. the rubber thing beneath is also just their, so it has enough pressure for the heatsink.
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DXWarlock
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Location: Florida, USA
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Posted: Sat, 18th Mar 2023 18:08 Post subject: Re: M.2 causing PC Freezing and unable to power off at all |
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DV2 wrote: | However, for a moment, i was just browsing stuff on Firefox and suddenly the keyboard and mouse didn't reacted. The keyboard's RGB turned off (the mouse was lighted up) and a few seconds after the screen would turn off, and holding the power button from the tower for +10secs wouldn't turn off the PC, so i was forced to unplug it.
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I had this EXACT same thing. Like once a month or 2-3 weeks. While doing things Keyboard lights go off, mouse stops responding and get the USB disconnect sound, then about 5 second later monitor goes off. Only difference was power button would work if I held it long enough.
First I thought it was heat based problem because I first saw it in games, but was coincidence. It did it while talking on discord, using chrome..or doing nothing at all.
Mine was the nvme for my OS wasnt making 'good' contact somehow. It was seated all the way, and screwed down. But removing it and putting it back in the same exact slot fixed it.
-We don't control what happens to us in life, but we control how we respond to what happens in life.
-Hard times create strong men, strong men create good times, good times create weak men, and weak men create hard times. -G. Michael Hopf
Disclaimer: Post made by me are of my own creation. A delusional mind relayed in text form.
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Posted: Sat, 18th Mar 2023 19:20 Post subject: |
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In the end i returned the product an they d gave me a discount ticket that lasts 6 months with the price of rhe m2
I think i kind of found the issue but i dont wanna go back and try again.
Both M2 slots had no support screw, so i thought it was just putting the device diagonally in, push it down to the mobo and screw it. It touched the mobo and the screw hole area..
Then whenever i got the issue and pulled off the PSU plug i smelled either heat or maybe burned stuff but it was very brief so i couldn't identify it. I need to know if i damaged the M2 and the SATA connectors to such M2 slot or not...
However whenever i started the PC with the M2 it was working normally
Then i watched a video tutorial and most has the support screw...I remembered then that my Mobo's box also had a bag with the support screws...Now i see what the rubber box was about and that the mobos heatsink wasnt touching the M2
This morning, before heading to work, i left a Memtest with A2 n B2 RAM slots with their sticks in it and after 2 passes no issues, so i decided to stop. Now, once i install everything again, i will do a single stick on A2 with B2 free then the reverse, to check if the slots are burned or not
But i need to know if i damaged the mobo or not!!
ASUS X570 TUF GAMING PLUS, 32GB DDR4@2666 ,RYZEN 5800X3D (NO OC),GIGABYTE RTX 4070 Super GAMING OC, Western Digital Blue 4TB 5400RPM + SAMSUNG 860 EVO 500+1TB GB SSDs , OEM SATA DVD 22xNoctua NH-D15 Chromax Black, BenQ XL2420T Case: Be Quiet! DARK BASE PRO 901. PSU CORSAIR RM1200 SHIFT
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tonizito
Posts: 51050
Location: Portugal, the shithole of Europe.
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Posted: Sat, 18th Mar 2023 19:38 Post subject: |
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boundle (thoughts on cracking AITD) wrote: | i guess thouth if without a legit key the installation was rolling back we are all fucking then |
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Posted: Sun, 19th Mar 2023 01:59 Post subject: |
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Posted: Sun, 19th Mar 2023 02:07 Post subject: |
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just so i get this right, you screwed the ssd directly onto the motherboard without the standoff screw?
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Posted: Sun, 19th Mar 2023 09:43 Post subject: |
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freiwald wrote: | just so i get this right, you screwed the ssd directly onto the motherboard without the standoff screw? |
Yeah, that was probably the reason (That's why it didn't touched the Mobo's heatsink and probablly the contact). The big question now is to know if the M2 port has been burned out or not, but so far i did Memtests on my A2 and B2 slots (both, A2 only, B2 only) and they haven't been damaged.
Installed W10 from zero but with the Media Creation Tool 22H2, saving me tons of updates to DL etc
If in the future i get another M2 i'll make sure to put the fucking screw but for now back to the old trusty build, hoping it doesn't freezes again on me (M2's SATA port connections like ya said)
(Mobo creators should've just put the standoff screws already and stop messing the customer around)
ASUS X570 TUF GAMING PLUS, 32GB DDR4@2666 ,RYZEN 5800X3D (NO OC),GIGABYTE RTX 4070 Super GAMING OC, Western Digital Blue 4TB 5400RPM + SAMSUNG 860 EVO 500+1TB GB SSDs , OEM SATA DVD 22xNoctua NH-D15 Chromax Black, BenQ XL2420T Case: Be Quiet! DARK BASE PRO 901. PSU CORSAIR RM1200 SHIFT
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Posted: Sun, 19th Mar 2023 10:21 Post subject: |
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That must have been pretty broken @DV2, I'm trying to wrap my head around how this worked without snapping the m.2 port off the board. The last 2 boards i've had have a standoff built-in.. one of them was a terrible vertical mount (asus, think 90 degree angle off mboard).
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Posted: Sun, 19th Mar 2023 11:01 Post subject: |
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I'm asking again: Do you think i've broken the M.2 port , burned it or something?. I mean, after that freeze the M.2 still booted up just fine but i'm not sure about the port itself.
EDIT: Unplugged the PSU for a min, unscrewed the heatsink and poked around the M.2 slot. It's still in it's place, won't budge nor wobble at all.
I've also made a couple of photos with a flashlight (Else it's too dark) for ya guys to check the pins
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Frk7NfnWYAM79kK?format=jpg&name=large
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Frk7NyoXgAAWG5N?format=jpg&name=large
The one below is the M.2 between the GPU and CPU , to compare the pins, but now that i notice, the 1st 2 pics have a few pins that seems to have been cutted in half
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Frk9PHbWYAAI1ma?format=jpg&name=large
Still, if what @DXWarlock said is true, the socket's pins could be fine and unburned afterall (Although he didn't mentioned anything about a burning/heat smell, like when playing an AAA game on Ultra all and the CPU gets hot and has that noticeable smell)
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Last edited by DV2 on Sun, 19th Mar 2023 12:03; edited 1 time in total
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Posted: Sun, 19th Mar 2023 12:03 Post subject: |
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there is no way to test the m2 port, without adding another m2 ssd to it, why would you want to make a ram test for that?
it's quite possible that something died on the board, i just checked a video and underneath the heatsink, were the ssd should go, there are some chips. If they got touched it's quite possible they got shorted or so, but no idea what kind of chips they are or what they do.
Maybe it was just the m2 which did get a short and a weird smell.
The port itself should be fine.
Look at the chips if you see a burned mark or so.
If there is nothing get another m2 ssd and try it otherwise you will never know.
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Posted: Sun, 19th Mar 2023 12:28 Post subject: |
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@DV2 hard to tell from the pics, it does look like the pins on the problematic port have wear / though especially on one edge (like are those pins / crushed / connecting?).
Also did you screw it into those 2 nuts / riser or those were not there and actually onto the motherboard PCB? If the nuts where there maybe it wasn't bent so bad, if no nuts though into PCB may have been too much stress.
You can see it wanted you to put square rubber standoff where its marked M2_Pad > but this is a pretty bad design must admit.
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Posted: Sun, 19th Mar 2023 12:34 Post subject: |
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Knowing that one thing can lead to another, better discard possibilities, right?
This is being a pain opening and then closing the fucking heatsink, but i'd rather get this shit off my head
I've made more photos
Note:Top of the port's numbers references are:
193004 = GPU CPU slot
193302 = Heatsink/Between PSU and GPU slot) :
193004: (Pins mainly)
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FrlC9dwWIAAGWhs?format=jpg&name=large
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FrlC9M0WwAEnc4J?format=jpg&name=large
193302:
Whole area (Forgot to put the M2 pad back in place. The screw area i used was the 2280 one ) https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FrlDCbOWcAQY7GE?format=jpg&name=large
Pins: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FrlDC2AXoAEwZ8V?format=jpg&name=large
Another pins one: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FrlDEPUWIAAxtOZ?format=jpg&name=large
Looking at the newer n better zoomed photos and the use of my powerful flashlight, the pins on the 193302 seems fine and equeal compared to the first photos of the 193004 above, without looking like there has been some shredding / making the pins thinner from the previous post
Hopefully this helps
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Last edited by DV2 on Sun, 19th Mar 2023 12:40; edited 1 time in total
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Posted: Sun, 19th Mar 2023 12:36 Post subject: |
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AmpegV4 wrote: | @DV2 hard to tell from the pics, it does look like the pins on the problematic port have wear / though especially on one edge (like are those pins / crushed / connecting?).
Also did you screw it into those 2 nuts / riser or those were not there and actually onto the motherboard PCB? If the nuts where there maybe it wasn't bent so bad, if no nuts though into PCB may have been too much stress.
You can see it wanted you to put square rubber standoff where its marked M2_Pad > but this is a pretty bad design must admit. |
As i've said, the riser screws weren't there to begin with. They were in the MoBo's box like i said. It'd probably has been the stress as you said. I just don't know why they weren't there to begin with if they wouldn't touch the heatsink's white foam protector whatsoever it is
Check the new photos above
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Posted: Sun, 19th Mar 2023 12:39 Post subject: |
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pins look okay, really only comes down to the SSD shorted something where it made contact with the board. What exactly made contact? if it were only the memory IC's on the SSD and no metal on metal, maybe you are ok?
Can also see wear in the corner of the M2_Pad part of the board, maybe try de-dust, micro-cloth clean that part and look for wear. The white paint is inconsequential but what about those 2 solder points the 2 closet legs of PQ4872..
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Posted: Sun, 19th Mar 2023 12:46 Post subject: |
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AmpegV4 wrote: | @DV2 hard to tell from the pics, it does look like the pins on the problematic port have wear / though especially on one edge (like are those pins / crushed / connecting?).
Also did you screw it into those 2 nuts / riser or those were not there and actually onto the motherboard PCB? If the nuts where there maybe it wasn't bent so bad, if no nuts though into PCB may have been too much stress.
You can see it wanted you to put square rubber standoff where its marked M2_Pad > but this is a pretty bad design must admit. |
Many boards have that and there was a pad installed in the first place, he removed it.
It's just so there is more pressure when attaching the cooler from the top, so it will actually cool the ssd better. It's not a replacement for the standoff screw.
@dv2 it was either the ssd or something on the board underneath the ssd, forget about the port.
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Posted: Sun, 19th Mar 2023 12:49 Post subject: |
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AmpegV4 wrote: | pins look okay, really only comes down to the SSD shorted something where it made contact with the board. What exactly made contact? if it were only the memory IC's on the SSD and no metal on metal, maybe you are ok?
Can also see wear in the corner of the M2_Pad part of the board, maybe try de-dust, micro-cloth clean that part and look for wear. The white paint is inconsequential but what about those 2 solder points the 2 closet legs of PQ4872.. |
Can also see wear in the corner of the M2_Pad part of the board, maybe try de-dust, micro-cloth clean that part and look for wear.[/quote]
As i said, without knowing about the "nuts"/leveling screws, i screwed the SSD into the 2280 hole directly and instead of being straight it was aimed slightly down towards the screw.
Probably that PQ4872 and the SSD weren't touching due to the diagonal height space
I just simply don't know how it could've survived some hours, even while playing DOOM ETERNAL at 43C all the time (Used Crystaldiskmark while playing the game and was doing ALT+TABs (Borderless full screen) and refreshing it to check the temps)
Are you saying that maybe the M2 SSD (NOT THE PORT) got screwed but the M2 port is probably ok?
EDIT: That's a rubber mark from the M2 Pad , photo below. I used my nail (Again, PSU unplugged) to poke it and it was definitely the sticky part of the M2 Pad). Also shown the PQ chip
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FrlK0VoWcAA6cBY?format=jpg&name=large
Freiwald: I removed it because i thought it was getting in the way , while the M2 port near the CPU did NOT have the rubber pad. But as ya said, it was to touch the sticky part below the heatsink to cool it off
In that case i'll try to calm down, but for now i won't buy another NVME for a long time and if i gotta get one i'll buy one with a heatsink already with it (Maybe WD SN850X with a firmware update) and place it next to the CPU to make sure i don't stress the , possibly?, bottom port out
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Posted: Sun, 19th Mar 2023 13:07 Post subject: |
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It's probably alright, todays hardware can take a fair bit of abuse. If the diagonal sag due to missing standoff was at most 1 - 2mm I would say it's probably alright. If we are talking bent 5+ mm out of the port then yeah i'd have some concern, but if it was that bad you wouldn't have been able to screw it in.
We are both asking if the SSD was touching metal on metal with the motherboard. If it was just forcefully bent, or if only the Plastic shield og IC's were touching which is likely but no metal on metal of the SSD and motherboard it's probably fine now you've re-seated it properly.
Also don't worry about SSD temps, it's a non-issue and heatsinks are windowdressing.
Some guestimations:
If the SSD is shorted / fucked its going to boot and not detect a disk at some point, also maybe random bluescreens.
If something on the motherboard board is fucked its probably just not going to boot, randomly powercycle, maybe random bluescreens.
If you wind up with bluescreens, your gonna have to test the SSD first (cheapest option to replace / test, maybe you can borrow or get a spare off a friend). Failing that your gonna need a new motherboard. I guess worst case, both are partially fucked and you will need both 
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Posted: Sun, 19th Mar 2023 13:47 Post subject: |
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Well, the screw was holding the SSD in place and the screw didn't wobbled, so the SSD was just touching probably the screw's base/hole area, not the motherboard. You could try checking out on yours (if ya have one) to see what i mean. (Think of pushing the M2 SSD all the way down to the screw's hole without the screw that makes the SSD go straightly placed. There's ya answer with my issue)
Like this https://prnt.sc/9kH1xPe5yt4K
Removing the M2 SSD had the same similar sound like when ya pull off a RAM stick from it's slot, that cringey sound, only less noisy and easier to pull off.
That might be the case, the detect a disk. I mean, i moved the SATA SSD and HDD to the right side of the tower (behind the panel) placed vertically with it's drive holder hanging and the cables were a bit of a pain to plug, but they were firmly placed and detected on W10. But still, as DXWarlock said, "bad connection" (in my case, diagonal sag)
The fucked motherboard case cannot be the possible, because once the PSU plug out (when freezed) and the burning/heat smell happened, i was able to boot onto the 980 PRO without any issues (No BSOD nor anything)
For now i'll hold off onto M2s and resist with the 2 SATA SSD (1TB OS, 500GB files) and 1 4TB HDD. Don't wanna go through this hell again. Actual mobos and CPUs are way more costful (X670, RYZEN 7000 series... RAM Training bullshit, and my X570 board isn't listed in shops among us anymore, only the WiFi version)
"Resist" because i wanted to upgrade one SATA SSD , the backup one, from 500GB to 1TB, but actual SAMSUNG and Crucial drives, 870 EVO and MX500 respectively, have been giving reports on DYING drives with the latest batches, while my SATA SSDs, an EVO 860 (OS) and EVO 850 (Files) are working fine for years
Hence the looking out for an M2 as the OS, use my 1TB SATA for files ...You know the drill
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