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 Posted: Thu, 10th Nov 2005 10:31 Post subject: gamekeystore.com down |
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is it just me or has gamekeystore.com been down for a few days now?
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TheNerd
Posts: 1025
Location: Israel
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| Posted: Thu, 10th Nov 2005 10:45 Post subject: |
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about time someone make em close
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| Posted: Thu, 10th Nov 2005 10:53 Post subject: |
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| Selt wrote: | | about time someone make em close |
They supply you with cheap, semi-legal keys and you dislike them?
What has he done to deserve that, or are you jealous that he's making money in such an easy way?
Also, they don't pull the key from retail games, he purchases them in from a third world country where games get sold for a far cheaper price.
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| Posted: Thu, 10th Nov 2005 11:04 Post subject: |
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| Praetori wrote: | | Selt wrote: | | about time someone make em close |
They supply you with cheap, semi-legal keys and you dislike them?
What has he done to deserve that, or are you jealous that he's making money in such an easy way?
Also, they don't pull the key from retail games, he purchases them in from a third world country where games get sold for a far cheaper price. |
yea, and purchase gameboxes in thailand to resell key worldwide IS ILLEGAL...
in case u didn't noticed thai versions have a big sticker on boxes that says "ASIAN VERSION, NOT FOR RESELLING"
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thyttel
Posts: 488
Location: Denmark
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| Posted: Thu, 10th Nov 2005 14:08 Post subject: |
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Gotta agree with Selt here. I have never liked people who tried to profit from illegal software.
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| Posted: Thu, 10th Nov 2005 14:20 Post subject: |
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It's not illegal, it's just what the companies would rather have you not do.
It's just like textbooks sold for (much) cheaper in asia/india with a big "NOT FOR SALE IN THE US" on the cover. It's not illegal to import them (there was a big article about this in the NY Times or the New Yorker recently), and companies have no way of stopping it, besides big scary printed messages.
there's an economics term for it, price discrimination, selling at different prices to different people. and there are no laws to prevent circumventing it, so go ahead and buy.
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thyttel
Posts: 488
Location: Denmark
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Epsilon
Dr. Strangelove
Posts: 9240
Location: War Room
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| Posted: Thu, 10th Nov 2005 15:28 Post subject: |
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| thyttel wrote: | | Selt wrote: | | thyttel wrote: |
And YOU downloading games over the internet isn't illigal?? I failt to see how someone who downloads games should even speak about if it's legal or not what he is doing and saying he got what he deserves? In case you havn't found out yet. It's illigal to download games too  |
There's a big difference between the two things. i don't earn money from illegal activities, that site did |
I'm sorry Selt but that really double moral Selt. In case you don't know you don't get to choose what is illigal and what is not or even what is morally ok or not. YOU might not like people who profit from it, but that doesn't make what he is doing less legal than what your doing! To be honost I think if you see it in legal terms(not beeing a laywer though) then what YOUR doing is more illigal than his doing. |
No it isn't, theres lesser crimes and more serious crimes, reselling software is a serious offence, downloading software is a lesser crime, punishable only to the extent of how much he has downloaded. |
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nightlith
Posts: 744
Location: Land of Bagged Milk
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| Posted: Thu, 10th Nov 2005 15:37 Post subject: |
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wow....a post in here has me launghing harder than I have in a looong time!
Semi-legal? It's the like semi-pregnant? ROFLMAO
i can has computar?!
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Bigperm
Posts: 1908
Location: Alberta,Canada
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| Posted: Thu, 10th Nov 2005 18:34 Post subject: |
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| Selt wrote: |
There's a big difference between the two things. i don't earn money from illegal activities, that site did |
I sure hope that you have never used a NOCD crack, backed up your software on another disc, read the entire EULA when installing software, only watch DVDs that are encoded for your geographic region and never listen to MP3s on your computer unless purchased directly from an online source. Because if you have done any of these things even once you are a hypocrite.
I didn't even mention warez.
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]x[
Posts: 80
Location: _-_
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| Posted: Thu, 10th Nov 2005 19:15 Post subject: |
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... about time that fucking site did a closin´
Let´s open up the champagne!
EDIT: by sage386
your post was removed due to mentioning SF in the term of virus
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| Posted: Thu, 10th Nov 2005 19:54 Post subject: |
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| dangerman77 wrote: | It's not illegal, it's just what the companies would rather have you not do.
It's just like textbooks sold for (much) cheaper in asia/india with a big "NOT FOR SALE IN THE US" on the cover. It's not illegal to import them (there was a big article about this in the NY Times or the New Yorker recently), and companies have no way of stopping it, besides big scary printed messages.
there's an economics term for it, price discrimination, selling at different prices to different people. and there are no laws to prevent circumventing it, so go ahead and buy. |
listen to this guy he knows what hes talking about and because it isnt illegal! it just the just the publishers dont want you to do it. there is a difference.
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| Posted: Thu, 10th Nov 2005 20:04 Post subject: |
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| SoSBigperm wrote: | He also screwed alot of people over, they lost there entire Guild wars accounts becasue the retail boxes were purchased with stolen credit cards. Hes deleted all this from his forums, and also said it was his distributor that was using stolen credit cards. Stand up guy 
And other than the fact he is exporting goods not meant for your country, and he is just a leech on the warez scene (Making money like a scumbag) everything is perfectly legal. |
And he also refunded every person who had that happend to them, I know this person personally and he is one of the more honest online traders.
its not illiegal, if it was he would be out of business by now, dont shit in his cereal because
A) you cant afford a key you want.
or B) you wish you had thought of it first.
leave him be, let him make his cash, if you dont like it call your senator and complain, maybe start up a "Gamers against gamekeystore" movement. But in any case stfu on nforce ;0
** FUS RO DAH **
F a i t h i n m a n k i n d
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Bigperm
Posts: 1908
Location: Alberta,Canada
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| Posted: Thu, 10th Nov 2005 21:26 Post subject: |
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| SirSmokesAlot wrote: | | SoSBigperm wrote: | He also screwed alot of people over, they lost there entire Guild wars accounts becasue the retail boxes were purchased with stolen credit cards. Hes deleted all this from his forums, and also said it was his distributor that was using stolen credit cards. Stand up guy
And other than the fact he is exporting goods not meant for your country, and he is just a leech on the warez scene (Making money like a scumbag) everything is perfectly legal. |
And he also refunded every person who had that happend to them, I know this person personally and he is one of the more honest online traders.
its not illiegal, if it was he would be out of business by now, dont shit in his cereal because
A) you cant afford a key you want.
or B) you wish you had thought of it first.
leave him be, let him make his cash, if you dont like it call your senator and complain, maybe start up a "Gamers against gamekeystore" movement. But in any case stfu on nforce ;0 |
You are entitled to your opineon As am i. I dont condone or help anyone making money of of the works of others. Illegal or not. He came to nforce becasue he saw a large customer base to prey on, so im glad others like me take a stand against leeches like him (Internal Storm), and we will make it public knowledge on NFOrce.
BTW Nice name Let me talk to samson.
Oh and im Canadian, no senator to complain to.
A) or B) donot apply to me.So i pick C)
C) I can afford the retail box and i buy all the games i play.
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| Posted: Thu, 10th Nov 2005 21:58 Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
And he also refunded every person who had that happend to them, I know this person personally and he is one of the more honest online traders.
its not illiegal, if it was he would be out of business by now, dont shit in his cereal because
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First: he didnt refund anyone. Thats BS
Second: he IS out of business right now which is a very good thing imo
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| Posted: Thu, 10th Nov 2005 23:46 Post subject: |
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Why the hell is it good? That site was awesome. Got BF 2 key that works online for 24 dollars compared to 50 at retail. What's wrong with that?
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crossmr
Posts: 2965
Location: South Korea
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| Posted: Fri, 11th Nov 2005 01:07 Post subject: |
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wow that's awesome.. if you get it from the source he was getting it at (Which is entirely possible) it was $11 USD.
He was marking up 100%, and RESELLING smuggled goods, thats illegal.
Intel i5 6500 3.2Ghz, Geforce 970GTX 2GB, 16 GB Ram, Windows 7
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nightlith
Posts: 744
Location: Land of Bagged Milk
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| Posted: Fri, 11th Nov 2005 02:07 Post subject: |
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Welcome to the 21st century. Alot of import/export laws are hard to apply to digital goods. The internet is very international. I can buy a game in Europe and have it shipped here np. I could even ask a buddy to buy the game over there for me and send me the key. I'm sure that'd be fairly legal.
This guy's operations were very hush hush. We don't know if he was stealing keys. We don't know if he was legitemately buying thiem. What he was doing though, was getting large quantities of keys from overseas sources, and selling them online. In itself, it's hard to say, but I would agree that in the act itself, probably not illegal. It's not like he was only selling to US customers. If he was exporting cd keys purely to sell in the US market, Customs would be on his ass so hard, as would many trade regulators. But that wasn't the case. Also, if I were to buy 1000 licenses of a microsoft product, using my MCP discount (or whatever they let you use these days) coupled with a large purchace discount, then turned around and resold those licenses online to make a small profit, do you think MS would appreciate that?
Nope. And it's in the agreement that they are not for resale. Just like the Keys for games are. If he buys 1 or 1000 cd keys legally or not, those are his keys. He's an end-user, as in The Buck Stops Here. He can't resell them for a profit without breaking the license agreement. He didn't sign a resale contract with a distributor, therefore he cannot resell the keys for profit.
You guys act like stealing a game digitally and using personally, or stealing it and selling it for profit are the same thing morally or whatever. Well that's not the issue. They are too VERY different things on the global market. Ask any trade regulator, customs agency, distributor, your government. Go to the librairy and read up on loclal and international trade laws, then com ehere and tell me he didn't deserve to have his site taken down. Hell, I hope he sitting in some cold dark room being torn to shit by regulators for him to back pay all the export and import tariffs he bypassed. He's probably dead from heartattack after seeing the bill he owes people for his "profit".
i can has computar?!
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crossmr
Posts: 2965
Location: South Korea
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| Posted: Fri, 11th Nov 2005 02:40 Post subject: |
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There is no way Customs could get on his ass if they didn't know he was doing it.
He didn't physically import them, but importing goods that are otherwise not for sale in your country is smuggling. He resold smuggled goods at an increased price. That's as illegal as the sky is blue, and morally its crap.
its illegal all the way. We know exactly where he bought them from (originally) as it was hinted at in another thread. He ended up having to change distributors because they caught on to him.
Intel i5 6500 3.2Ghz, Geforce 970GTX 2GB, 16 GB Ram, Windows 7
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| Posted: Fri, 11th Nov 2005 08:00 Post subject: |
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| SirSmokesAlot wrote: | | SoSBigperm wrote: | He also screwed alot of people over, they lost there entire Guild wars accounts becasue the retail boxes were purchased with stolen credit cards. Hes deleted all this from his forums, and also said it was his distributor that was using stolen credit cards. Stand up guy
And other than the fact he is exporting goods not meant for your country, and he is just a leech on the warez scene (Making money like a scumbag) everything is perfectly legal. |
And he also refunded every person who had that happend to them, I know this person personally and he is one of the more honest online traders.
its not illiegal, if it was he would be out of business by now, dont shit in his cereal because
A) you cant afford a key you want.
or B) you wish you had thought of it first.
leave him be, let him make his cash, if you dont like it call your senator and complain, maybe start up a "Gamers against gamekeystore" movement. But in any case stfu on nforce ;0 |
we want to talk about opinions on the subject "is this legal or not" or should be base our opinions of facts?
"This license does not include any resale or commercial use"
1- taken from the stikers on every asian game box.
2- taken word by word on the eula contract, which every customer accepts the moment he buys a game
i don't even know what's to discuss here. the only company was able to trace back cdkeys that site was selling -ncsoft- banned every single key. others companies simply have no way to trace keys and a keyban is impossible.
internal storm may be a good person in real life, but he saw a way of profiting from piracy which is immoral and illegal and he tried to exploit it. from ages import in other countries goods that are originally states to be sold in asia goes under the word of "smuggling". the fact that the goods here are cdkeys taken from boxes and mailed to him does not change the fact that is smuggling.
don't wanna loose more time in this discussion, everyone knows such activity is not legal, it was just usefull for leechers that wanted an original smugglered key for less then 50% of the price.
if u want a gama so badly consider to buy it original. for 20bucks u get an illegal working key, for 50 u get a legal key, original retail us version boxes, manual and discs...
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| Posted: Fri, 11th Nov 2005 08:18 Post subject: |
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wtf smuggled goods?
if I went to asia, bought a game..came back to the US, I would be smuggling?
Also if I had decided to sell that game on EBAY, would I be breaking the law?
There are TONS and TONS of asian games being sold by people that buy them from asia..yet they are not in jail..or shut down. you think you know whats legal yet you dont.
** FUS RO DAH **
F a i t h i n m a n k i n d
0% ▓▓░░░░░░░░░░ 100%
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| Posted: Fri, 11th Nov 2005 08:21 Post subject: |
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| SirSmokesAlot wrote: | wtf smuggled goods?
if I went to asia, bought a game..came back to the US, I would be smuggling?
Also if I had decided to sell that game on EBAY, would I be breaking the law?
There are TONS and TONS of asian games being sold by people that buy them from asia..yet they are not in jail..or shut down. you think you know whats legal yet you dont. |
he didn't BOUGHT A GAME for personal use, thing that is of course allowed.
he BOUGHT HUNDREDS OF GAMES for the sole task of reselling keys in the us-eu or wathever he wanted, activity which yea, it's forbidden, it's illegal, it's immoral, it's smuggling
so yes SIR, WTF SMUGGLED!!
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| Posted: Fri, 11th Nov 2005 16:48 Post subject: |
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| Selt wrote: |
he didn't BOUGHT A GAME for personal use, thing that is of course allowed.
he BOUGHT HUNDREDS OF GAMES for the sole task of reselling keys in the us-eu or wathever he wanted, activity which yea, it's forbidden, it's illegal, it's immoral, it's smuggling
so yes SIR, WTF SMUGGLED!! |
Selt & Co. Hate to tell ya, but its LEGAL!
A simulair case in the UK:
http://news.zdnet.com/2100-3513_22-5944617.html
Secondhand on-used licence's from company's going under, or company's who have overbought licences, are sold by that company. Legit & even approved by MS.
Also, i've seen people claim that its illegal because of a licence agreement. Most of those Licence agreements are illegal themselves. Most of those licences if tried to enforce are thrown out of court faster then you can say "illegal".
Another case is the all know www.allofmp3.com site. They sell ultra cheap mp3's, what are perfectly legal in Russia to a international public. About a dozen of "organisations" have sued to try & stop the sale of the site. In only one country it was blocked. All the other case's, they lost.
There is something in this world called "Free trade of goods". You buy 1000 BF2 dvds in Russia, and sell them in the west for 50% of there value, nothing they can do about it ( of course, you need to pay your import tax on the physical goods ). Now, if somebody only sells the CD keys, same deal. The difference being, he now sells a service, and not a physical good, bypassing import laws.
And i will say it again, a End User Licence is not a legally binding contract. Even worse, hardly anybody reads those things anyway ( proven fact ), making it even harder even if a company's tries to sue. I've seen first hand how a company tried to stop selling products because of a End User Licence that got broken. In the end they where forced to sell the goods, because refusing to sell them was against the law. Going to court was not even a option.
Why do you think people are allowed to do this business even when the company's don't like it. Because its legal & they can't do anything against it.
And talk about double standards. People who are here, aren't here for the coffee, no, they are up to no good, that includes all those "good he's out of business" or whatever sayers. In a mather of fact, you are doing things way more illegal. Trying to justify it by claiming its illegal & he's making a profit off it. His actions aren't illegal. But yours are. Every game, movie you download is a profit in your pocket. Another 50$/20$ you don't need to pay. So get off your high horse.
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crossmr
Posts: 2965
Location: South Korea
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| Posted: Fri, 11th Nov 2005 17:30 Post subject: |
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Maybe you should reread the article for this key paragraph:
A loophole in British insolvency laws and a clause within many Microsoft licenses that permits disused or unwanted volume licenses to be transferred enables Disclic to sell the licenses legally. The licenses are offered at a discount of around 20 to 50 percent below prices of any other authorized Microsoft reseller.
The only reason this is legal in the UK is because of a special combination of a poorly worded license and a loophole in BRITISH law. This doesn't make it legal to resell keys from a price controlled environment in the US or any other country.
Nice try though.
As for allofmp3.com I've heard many legal opinions that aren't sure of the legality of it in the US, or countries outside of Russia. They may try to sue within Russia and the Russian courts may not care, but that doesn't make it legal for use outside of Russia.
"Free trade of goods" This does not exist outside of NAFTA that I'm aware of. Russia is not part of Nafta. If you import goods from outside of the country you are charged duty dependent on what it is and its value. I can guarentee you gamekeystore didn't pay customs charges.
This whole situation has nothing to do with an end use agreement and the simple fact that there is a purchase agreement you are legally bound to when you purchase in Thailand. Because of the price controlled product it is not legal for resale outside of Thailand. That agreement goes well beyond being stamped on the box.
Intel i5 6500 3.2Ghz, Geforce 970GTX 2GB, 16 GB Ram, Windows 7
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| Posted: Fri, 11th Nov 2005 17:41 Post subject: |
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| nightlith wrote: | wow....a post in here has me launghing harder than I have in a looong time!
Semi-legal? It's the like semi-pregnant? ROFLMAO |
There's a difference between being legal and being pregnant. There's decriminalisation, which means something is an offense but not punishable by jail terms. Also, the guy selling it was younger than 18.
But I'm happy I made you laugh.
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