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Ronhrin
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Location: Paradigms are changeable, reality is absolute.
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 Posted: Tue, 31st Jul 2007 13:41 Post subject: Extraterrestrial Civilization |
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when someone talks about alien life, the first thing everyone thinks about is about high evolved civilizations travelling from solar system to solar system in incredible advanced space ships at faster-than-light speeds.
in the other hand when we think about our little precious planet, we see another reality.
life has existed on earth for at least a billion years, during that time there has been at least 3 large scale extinction events that killed of a great percentage of earth and sea life, and life has always found a way to change, adapt and survive. one of those extinction events happened some 65 million years ago and killed of 95% of the well known dinosaurs, the dinosaurs where a group of hundreds if not thousands of reptilian species, that all together dominated the earth for more than 350 million years, also the dinosaurs where extremely intelligent creatures, the few species that survive the extinction that killed them off are still the most intelligent creatures on the planet, next to humans. but it seems that during this 1 billion years ride, after so many species of creatures that lived and died and become extinct in this planet, only a few 15.000 years ago, an ape like species managed to start developing tools and civilization, it was the only species so far that achieved that goal.
when we try to imagine the big picture of things, we couldn't stop thinking that our medium-sized galaxy contains some 400 billion stars, and some 80% to 90% contains solar systems, a solar system is the remains of mass that continue to orbit a new-born star but never join the mass of the star, eventually when the star turns on fusion and the orbiting mass cools off, it forms planet-sized bodies.
in fact is an odd event a star without a solar system.
in the visible universe we can count some 100 billion billion galaxys, each one of them with many hundreds of billion of star systems
life on earth is formed of carbon structures, carbon exists almost everywhere in the universe.
so, we can conclude that all the right conditions to form life exists everywhere in the universe, we only need one or two variables to find it, a stable planet with liquid water is basicly all we need to find life, and everyone knows that this sort of planets shouldn't be rare across the universe.
Everytime I think about extraterrestrial life, about reptilian or ape or cat like or fish like species, I cannot even question that they exist in thousands, if not millions of planets only in our galaxy, but in the other hand, when I think about mr alien driving mrs alien to work in a far away planet I just found it odd and unlikely. so I seriously doubt the hollywood-like aproach to alien life, in fact I believe that if we aren't the only evolved civiliziation in the universe, we're sharing the evolved status with another 1 or 2 species in the entire universe.
Last edited by Ronhrin on Tue, 31st Jul 2007 13:59; edited 2 times in total
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X_Dror
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Location: Jerusalem, Israel
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Ronhrin
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Location: Paradigms are changeable, reality is absolute.
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| Posted: Tue, 31st Jul 2007 15:50 Post subject: |
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thats the same way i think about alien life. if we ever find alien life it will be a planet filled with weird animals
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| Posted: Tue, 31st Jul 2007 15:51 Post subject: |
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thats the same way i think about alien life. if we ever find more advanced alien life then germs it will be a planet filled with weird animals
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headshot
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Ronhrin
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Location: Paradigms are changeable, reality is absolute.
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| Posted: Tue, 31st Jul 2007 16:43 Post subject: |
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| Posted: Tue, 31st Jul 2007 17:36 Post subject: |
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| swingman wrote: | Stop watching discovery channel! 
If you consider the total number of stars in the sky (visible or otherwise) then it's easy to think that the universe is teeming with life. But then you have to consider the conditions neccessary for life (as we understand it) it doesn't look so crowded out there.
Drake's Equation
The problem with this equation is that we do not know any of the numbers involved with any certainty. |
I think you hit the major flaw, assuming that alien civilizations depend on the same conditions to survive as us...
When talking about extraterrestrial life, this has always bothered me, we are carbon based life forms, and far from perfect. Aliens could be gigantic, microscopic, extra-dimensional, visually or energetically invisible to us, there are things beyond what out puny mind can reach.
Remember the Roswell fake-almost-for-sure alien autopsy? Here in Portugal they summoned a forensics "expert" (major cocksucker) who kept on saying "Blah blah, that can't be a liver, it's too big" "Blah blah, what's the purpose of those things covering the eyes" What a retard! Why should he be comparing everything to human biology as we know it?
Just a final though, supported by something posted earlier in this forum, the universe is unbeliveably big, i just can't believe that there's nothing more out there. Waste some time on the Wikipedia reading about stars, black holes, suns, etc, and take a look at this:
http://www.howbigistheworld.com/
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/3/3b/Sun_and_VY_Canis_Majoris.png
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headshot
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| Posted: Tue, 31st Jul 2007 17:58 Post subject: |
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| Posted: Tue, 31st Jul 2007 18:22 Post subject: |
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It'd be funny if we started exploring the universe, and then found an alien civilization and decided to contact them. Then we would be the aliens, wouldn't we? I mean, in all these Hollywood movies someone comes to use, but I have yet to see one where we go to them.
Sense Amid Madness, Wit Amidst Folly
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X_Dror
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Ronhrin
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Location: Paradigms are changeable, reality is absolute.
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| Posted: Tue, 31st Jul 2007 18:39 Post subject: |
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| KaputXino wrote: | | swingman wrote: | Stop watching discovery channel!
If you consider the total number of stars in the sky (visible or otherwise) then it's easy to think that the universe is teeming with life. But then you have to consider the conditions neccessary for life (as we understand it) it doesn't look so crowded out there.
Drake's Equation
The problem with this equation is that we do not know any of the numbers involved with any certainty. |
I think you hit the major flaw, assuming that alien civilizations depend on the same conditions to survive as us...
When talking about extraterrestrial life, this has always bothered me, we are carbon based life forms, and far from perfect. Aliens could be gigantic, microscopic, extra-dimensional, visually or energetically invisible to us, there are things beyond what out puny mind can reach.
Remember the Roswell fake-almost-for-sure alien autopsy? Here in Portugal they summoned a forensics "expert" (major cocksucker) who kept on saying "Blah blah, that can't be a liver, it's too big" "Blah blah, what's the purpose of those things covering the eyes" What a retard! Why should he be comparing everything to human biology as we know it?
Just a final though, supported by something posted earlier in this forum, the universe is unbeliveably big, i just can't believe that there's nothing more out there. Waste some time on the Wikipedia reading about stars, black holes, suns, etc, and take a look at this:
http://www.howbigistheworld.com/
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/3/3b/Sun_and_VY_Canis_Majoris.png |
I agree with most of what you said, except something, when we mention the size of the universe, we are actually talking about the quantity of "existing things" for instance, the quantity of stars within a galaxy, the quantity of galaxys that we can see, the space that 2 close stars are appart from each other. I don't think that talking about some few gigantic stars has anything to do with the quantity of stars and star systems that do exist, because in this case, the quantity is what really matters.
and besides, when talking about carbon-based life, one thing that the scientific comunity has assumed is that, when searching for it, you should search in stars pretty much like our sun, the bigger and hotter the star is, the more unlikely is for carbon-based life to form.
and just another thing, aliens could indeed be gigantic, pretty much how our good friends the dinosaurs and they would most certainly evolve from microscopic single-cell organisms like bacteria. but as far as being invisible to us or extra-dimensional, that would only apply for beings much more advanced in the path of evolution, when we are talking about non intelligent aliens, they would most certainly be the same thing and same variety that we can find here on earth, I think that if they are carbon-based or silicon-based or based on any other unknown element, that would only influence the shape of the creature and the inner and outer mechanisms it uses to live and survive.
mentioning about extra-dimensional or invisible beings it only has a purpose when talking about a species that has thousands or even millions of technology years appart from us, they would probably be beings that ceased to require biologic functions to survive, they would probable not even know what death was for millions of years, but as I said in my first post I seriously doubt that such type of civilization could endure so long in the evolutionary path without being extinct for natural or artificial reasons.
| tainted4ever wrote: | | It'd be funny if we started exploring the universe, and then found an alien civilization and decided to contact them. Then we would be the aliens, wouldn't we? I mean, in all these Hollywood movies someone comes to use, but I have yet to see one where we go to them. |
what I actually believe is that if we ever survive to the day when we are able to explore large portions of the galaxy and found other civilizations, we would actually be the alien invaders that we portrait in the movies. If we ever found a civilization less advanced than us we would without a doubt try to dominate, try to induce human standards and consume natural resources, that is pretty much what humans as a civilization do. and afterwards when there was nothing more to consume or to gain from that planet we would just go away and find another one.
knowing what we know about human relations towards inferior species that is the most logical thing to assume.
Last edited by Ronhrin on Tue, 31st Jul 2007 18:49; edited 3 times in total
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| Posted: Tue, 31st Jul 2007 18:41 Post subject: |
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| Ronhrin wrote: | | headshot wrote: | | JeanPerrier wrote: | | thats the same way i think about alien life. if we ever find alien life it will be a planet filled with weird animals |
| JeanPerrier wrote: | | thats the same way i think about alien life. if we ever find more advanced alien life then germs it will be a planet filled with weird animals |
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weird animals that don't know how to edit a message and instead double post it 
peace  |
i am connected by a router. i edited because i thought it wasnt posted yet, and i never check it |
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| Posted: Tue, 31st Jul 2007 19:14 Post subject: |
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| Ronhrin wrote: |
what I actually believe is that if we ever survive to the day when we are able to explore large portions of the galaxy and found other civilizations, we would actually be the alien invaders that we portrait in the movies. If we ever found a civilization less advanced than us we would without a doubt try to dominate, try to induce human standards and consume natural resources, that is pretty much what humans as a civilization do. and afterwards when there was nothing more to consume or to gain from that planet we would just go away and find another one.
knowing what we know about human relations towards inferior species that is the most logical thing to assume. |
Hardly. If we manage to survive as a civilization to the point where space travel is a casual thing then it's safe to assume that society will be sufficiently advanced to the point where belligerence is effectively non-existent.
Even now we already have protections in place the preserve endangered species of 'inferior' organisms even though humanity is still massively flawed in many other ways.
"Techniclly speaking, Beta-Manboi didnt inject Burberry_Massi with Benz, he injected him with liquid that had air bubbles in it, which caused benz." - House M.D
"Faith without logic is the same as knowledge without understanding; meaningless"
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Ronhrin
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Posts: 6428
Location: Paradigms are changeable, reality is absolute.
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| Posted: Tue, 31st Jul 2007 19:30 Post subject: |
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| AnimalMother wrote: | | Ronhrin wrote: |
what I actually believe is that if we ever survive to the day when we are able to explore large portions of the galaxy and found other civilizations, we would actually be the alien invaders that we portrait in the movies. If we ever found a civilization less advanced than us we would without a doubt try to dominate, try to induce human standards and consume natural resources, that is pretty much what humans as a civilization do. and afterwards when there was nothing more to consume or to gain from that planet we would just go away and find another one.
knowing what we know about human relations towards inferior species that is the most logical thing to assume. |
Hardly. If we manage to survive as a civilization to the point where space travel is a casual thing then it's safe to assume that society will be sufficiently advanced to the point where belligerence is effectively non-existent.
Even now we already have protections in place the preserve endangered species of 'inferior' organisms even though humanity is still massively flawed in many other ways. |
yes that's true, but that protections exist mainly because that species are appart of our own ecosystem and their loss would mean even greater damage to humans that global warming, of course there are emotion and ethics also at work when making laws to protect that species, but also, humans are the ones who endangered them. and those emotive and ethical bonds, only exist because we share the same planet. It's like what I use to say, "you don't suffer the loss of what you don't even knew".
and besides, space travel and exploration doesn't have anything to do with humanity being more peaceful or not. space exploration will happen because of two main reasons, for knowledge and discovery, and for alien resources. that's the two main reasons for the next generations of space exploration.
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| Posted: Tue, 31st Jul 2007 20:42 Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
Hardly. If we manage to survive as a civilization to the point where space travel is a casual thing then it's safe to assume that society will be sufficiently advanced to the point where belligerence is effectively non-existent.
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You kidding me? Almost all major technological progress has been made during a major conflict, or in other stressful situations, when it was most in need. Look at WWI and WWII, and how much our technology advanced during those two wars...
Through conflict and violence, humanity advances.
Sense Amid Madness, Wit Amidst Folly
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nouseforaname
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| Posted: Tue, 31st Jul 2007 21:21 Post subject: |
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I personally wouldn't welcome any extraterrestrials on this planet for the main reason humanity is so brainwashed and fucked up. Any government..especially mine, would try to "kidnap" at all costs so they can conduct scientific research from autopsy's and so forth. There would be no welcoming YAY THERES OTHER LIFE!! It's going to be HOLY SHIT AN ALIEN KILL KILL KILL. It's already been proven by (and im using the states in this example) when someone of another religion moves into a Christian town, they get fucked with and their shit burned down. Theirs a Buddhist temple a few miles from my house that had to be relocated cause a bunch of Christians took it upon themselves to ACT ON GOD and try burning down their temple. What's to stop these idiots from having a riot over another life form coming to visit our planet.
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| Posted: Tue, 31st Jul 2007 21:30 Post subject: |
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Whatever the case may be, any intelligent lifeform studying us will likely laugh out loud at the lack of confidence and pride we show as a lifeform.
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| Posted: Tue, 31st Jul 2007 22:25 Post subject: |
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| Posted: Tue, 31st Jul 2007 22:50 Post subject: |
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| swingman wrote: | | SpykeZ wrote: | | I personally wouldn't welcome any extraterrestrials on this planet for the main reason humanity is so brainwashed and fucked up. Any government..especially mine, would try to "kidnap" at all costs so they can conduct scientific research from autopsy's and so forth. |
Don't worry, if aliens ever get here it would be more like when the conquistadors landed in south america. Those 'guys' are going to so much more advanced than us.
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Weird, I'm not used to seeing you post without using that pink elephant dancing, I almost didn't recognize you |
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| Posted: Tue, 31st Jul 2007 23:43 Post subject: |
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| Posted: Tue, 31st Jul 2007 23:47 Post subject: |
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Ronhrin
Banned
Posts: 6428
Location: Paradigms are changeable, reality is absolute.
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| Posted: Wed, 1st Aug 2007 00:07 Post subject: |
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| Praetori wrote: | | Whatever the case may be, any intelligent lifeform studying us will likely laugh out loud at the lack of confidence and pride we show as a lifeform. |
I guess it would be correct to assume that for a species to evolve and become intelligent, it would have to, without a doubt , be a predatory species, and it would also be fair to assume that when a predatory species is evolving it would always have to face wars with each other.
what I actually mean is this, we are an intelligent life form, even if we are still primitive in the eyes of other advanced species, we dominate our planet and all the species in it, we have become a space exploratory race, we aren't that primitive, and we still fight against each other for resources and cultural differences, when we are at war we are nothing more than raging primates killing each other with advanced weapons. it's fair to assume that it's a path all predatory species in the evolution road have to go through at a given point in their evolutionary path.
so I seriously doubt they would laugh out loud while observing us, they would probably recall memories of their own past generations that killed each other off for reasons similar to ours.
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| Posted: Wed, 1st Aug 2007 00:29 Post subject: |
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If we did happen to find "another civilization" I do agree that there would be wars over recourses and such. Humanity is trigger happy and it's no lie the earth is being demolished by it's inhabitants own filth. Any planet we land one were going to claim, like the US did with the moon, who the fuck cares that they made it there and put a fucking flag on it. What's to stop the earthlings from landing on an inhabited world then declare war because they won't adopt our ways of life or laws. If their into slavery, all of a sudden were sending over troops to kill of their leaders much like the US is doing to Iraq and Iran and so forth....doing what the US does best, get in everyone elses business.
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