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-=Cartoon=-
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 Posted: Fri, 7th Sep 2007 14:26 Post subject: Do you make games look good and get in the atmosphere ?? |
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Bit of a misleading topic.. but when you play games do you take it all in ?? or do you just go do the task at hand..
I bring this up because i had a friend over who has a PS3 and i let him have a go at bioshock (on PC) i noticed that when he played it he did not take in ANY of the atmosphere or "other stuff" in the game.. for example at the start.. did not watch the plane sink.. did not even really look around. just straight into the lift.. then followed the arrows...
I notice when im playing something like Medieval Total war 2 etc i kinda move the camera into camera positions to kinda "make the game look good" if that makes sense...
So what do you do when you play games ??
Do you take it all in ?? Or just march from A to B
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upstart_69
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| Posted: Fri, 7th Sep 2007 14:52 Post subject: |
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I do the same, that is, soak in all atmosphere in a game that is possible(if it is a great one anyways).
But I do imagine lots of ppl here do what your friend does since they master games in several hours and come on here to report(or gloat?).
IMHO, that ruins the whole value of a game. Even in shooters with a decent setting/visuals and different options, I find myself wondering around, checking out every nook and cranny. I think the value of a game is how long I spend exploring it and trying every option, and usually those end up as my highest rated games.
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chiv
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| Posted: Fri, 7th Sep 2007 14:55 Post subject: |
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some people play the game to get to the combat
some people play the game just to get through it
some people really like to explore and look at the art design, level construction, explore every trashcan and corpse...
im from the last group, but there are people who just play for the sake of playing, not enjoying everything about it... same can be said for movie watchers.. some just watch for the naked titties floppin around, or the explosions, and dont get any emotional connection to the film or the characters... you cant say that theyre 'wrong', theyre just different to how we are, and they'll never 'get it'...
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LeoNatan
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| Posted: Fri, 7th Sep 2007 14:58 Post subject: |
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| chiv wrote: | some people play the game to get to the combat
some people play the game just to get through it
some people really like to explore and look at the art design, level construction, explore every trashcan and corpse...
im from the last group, but there are people who just play for the sake of playing, not enjoying everything about it... same can be said for movie watchers.. some just watch for the naked titties floppin around, or the explosions, and dont get any emotional connection to the film or the characters... you cant say that theyre 'wrong', theyre just different to how we are, and they'll never 'get it'... |
Right.
Unless you can't turn AA on, and then the engine sucks, the game is stupid pos and whatever...  |
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Ispep
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| Posted: Fri, 7th Sep 2007 15:01 Post subject: |
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It was probably circumstances which dictated his behaviour and not necessarily how he ordinarily plays games on his own. I mean if you're with a friend the last thing you can really do is soak in the atmosphere - especially with a game that doesn't demand it (like Bioshock).
But quite like you this is how I behave when I play games. Unfortunately, as in the case of the sinking plane it can actually be a detriment to the experience - reason being; if you're being studious and soaking it all in the scripted events become much more obvious and punctuated. This was very common in Half-Life 2 where it was far more dynamic and flowing if you burst through it without stopping to think - as opposed to casually walking around inspecting stuff. It's especially evident in Bioshock as well. That's the problem with games using instantaneous triggers. Anyway I digress slightly 
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| Posted: Fri, 7th Sep 2007 15:06 Post subject: |
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Really depends on my mood, where I'm at etc. Like if I let a friend try out a game or whatever, their not really going to take in the atmosphere or what not, their just gunna get the feel of the gameplay to see if it's their style. Me personally I'll turn the lights off so all I really notice is my monitor, turn on the 5.1 and lose myself. FEAR and Bioshock have been the best draw me in games I've played. As Clive Barker says, Horror is 50% sound. If I don't have a game with great sound, I can't really lose myself in it.
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| Posted: Fri, 7th Sep 2007 15:11 Post subject: |
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For me it depends on the addictiveness that the game has on me.
I'll try to explain.
For example, when i played C&C3, after a few missions it became for me so boring (this is obviously just my opinion of the game, so don't even start "hey but it was good fantastic you don't understood nothing bla bla bla" please), that for all the others i forced myself to do the minimum possible to reach the end and proceed to finish a.s.a.p. the entire game.
Then let's take instead the "old" System Shock 2 ... when i played it i was totally taken by that "experience", the atmosphere, the sound, the (even not 3500x2500x1234billionsofcolors) graphic, i have explored totally the game, all single centimeter of it, reading everything, tasting every detail ...
Nowadays i think that when you find yourself playing a game as described in the first example i made you should stop ! It's wasted time, it means no fun for you, so you can do anything else and it would be better than using you time boring yourself only because "you have to finish it".
Of course somtime (i have already talked about this in the past) you want to finish it only because you payed for it, but that's another point for trying the game first, before purchasing it and having surprises.
Actually when i find myself in that situation i stop playing that game.
Only when i find something that even partially comes closer to the second example then i'll play it fully, enjoying every detail and moment of it.
So my answer is "yes i feel that" otherwise i'll simply stop playing a game that feels to me like a "duty".
There are only 10 kinds of people : those that understand binaries and those that don't.
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| Posted: Fri, 7th Sep 2007 15:36 Post subject: |
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Funny topic because just the other day I told my wife I make games more nerve-wrecking than they really are because I soak up too much atmosphere. Take Bioshock eg. When the thread-starter said he stopped up and watched the plane sink into the ocean I had to nod in agreement here. I did the same thing. When I entered the lighthouse I took my time and read the banners, examined everything down to the pod and I didn't start the pod before I had examined everything inside it thorough. While on the subject of Bioshock, that's one scary game for me. When the lights go off and you get swarmed by all those baddies in the early parts of the game I really brace myself for the impending assault. It's almost like I can feel my adrenaline rise for the occasion. I remember having the same feeling when I played Doom I-III.
I'm not one of those who likes to tell other people how they should do things in life. I do however gladly give away free advices. Running through a brilliant game - like for instance Bioshock - doesn't give either you nor the game the proper credit you both deserve. Many games are really good these days with ample information and atmosphere besides great graphics. They do however get even better with a little contemplation and thinking. Do not simply play the game, but try to be the game. It's very rewarding.
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TiHKAL
Posts: 2350
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| Posted: Fri, 7th Sep 2007 15:52 Post subject: |
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| SpykeZ wrote: | | Really depends on my mood, where I'm at etc. Like if I let a friend try out a game or whatever, their not really going to take in the atmosphere or what not, their just gunna get the feel of the gameplay to see if it's their style. Me personally I'll turn the lights off so all I really notice is my monitor, turn on the 5.1 and lose myself. FEAR and Bioshock have been the best draw me in games I've played. As Clive Barker says, Horror is 50% sound. If I don't have a game with great sound, I can't really lose myself in it. |
FEAR had all kinds of funny stuff as well. TPS reports everywhere and other funny little easter egg things. I am playing through FEAR again ATM -- still a great game!
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| Posted: Fri, 7th Sep 2007 16:03 Post subject: |
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I'll add to my previous post that for some people however is just nearly impossible to get "sucked in".
There are some friends of mine that just are unable to let the game "sorround" you, they seem to approach it thinking everytime "i'm staring at a monitor where a pc is let a program run that interacts with me through my input". Or just like some people don't get scared or remain emotionless while watching an horror film, or the ones that are unable to cry for a dramatic story told by a film ("urgh i'm a man so i don't have to cry" personally is a poor thinking to be nice).
It comes to my mind my dad when he says, looking at strong sections of films, "hey but it's only a film, why cry or be scared ? for what ?" ... i always answer him "wtf are you always looking films if you don't even try to be taken in by them ???"
These guys won't ever discover a whole range of emotions, because they don't even try to enter them ! I'm happy not to be like those, because being immersed totally in a videogame like SS2 is one of the things i'm very happy to have tried, and look forward to try again many times !
There are only 10 kinds of people : those that understand binaries and those that don't.
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-=Cartoon=-
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| Posted: Fri, 7th Sep 2007 16:35 Post subject: |
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I always check the view of a game, I never rush into anything, if you game like that, you can better stop playing games tbh.
PC: Yes. Console: No.
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| Posted: Fri, 7th Sep 2007 17:04 Post subject: |
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[quote="Dandos"... plus u gotta use ur imagination to work with you. ...[/quote]
Unfortunately some people are just not able to use imagination.
I remember the old days of the Amiga when titles like Dungeon Master ruled ... crap graphics and not so incredible sound, with a bit of imagination and desire to get immersed, were more than enough to create unforgettable moments.
If someone takes gaming like a duty (horrible to me even to think) even the most incredible
mega-hi-res graphics and sounds won't be able to give him an experience to be "lived".
There are only 10 kinds of people : those that understand binaries and those that don't.
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Ispep
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| Posted: Fri, 7th Sep 2007 17:16 Post subject: |
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You know what they say; 'less is more', and this mantra is actually very relevant in the case of stimulating the imagination. That's why I find literature far more powerful than film. It's why I still have fond memories of text adventures on my PC. The limiting underlying mechanics of an enriched world such as Bioshock is wholly familiar and predictable (particularly if you've played a game that for the most part is almost identical - i.e. System Shock 2). So whilst I would agree with you that imagination is a powerful ally, I would not however entirely blame the users that they don't use it. Games are an interactive medium and if games are made in such a formulaic manner that it doesn't attempt to engage the user wilfully it can't expect people to be immersed.
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| Posted: Fri, 7th Sep 2007 17:19 Post subject: |
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Yeah thats like playing the Hitman games on easy and just rusing through the whole thing gunning people down. Allowing yourself to become immersed in a game world is one of the most important things in allowing you to enjoy a game.
"Techniclly speaking, Beta-Manboi didnt inject Burberry_Massi with Benz, he injected him with liquid that had air bubbles in it, which caused benz." - House M.D
"Faith without logic is the same as knowledge without understanding; meaningless"
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Ispep
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| Posted: Fri, 7th Sep 2007 17:20 Post subject: |
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Anyway, as anyone playing Bioshock will know by now - rushing through is more satisfying than plodding through.
Examples? The re-spawning enemies. Too obvious if you plod through that they re-spawned. The scripted triggers that are instantaneous in consequence (pick this up and you will spring a trap for example). These reward twitch gamers and are jarring indications that you are playing a constructed game to those who take their time.
Hence those who use their imagination are actually routinely punished because the developers are metaphorically hitting you over the head screaming; "WAKE UP! YOU'RE PLAYING SYSTEM SHOCK 2 FOR CONSOLE FANBOI'S!"
Anyway... I'm outta here with my Bioshock love
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chiv
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| Posted: Fri, 7th Sep 2007 17:21 Post subject: |
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| LeoNatan wrote: | | chiv wrote: | some people play the game to get to the combat
some people play the game just to get through it
some people really like to explore and look at the art design, level construction, explore every trashcan and corpse...
im from the last group, but there are people who just play for the sake of playing, not enjoying everything about it... same can be said for movie watchers.. some just watch for the naked titties floppin around, or the explosions, and dont get any emotional connection to the film or the characters... you cant say that theyre 'wrong', theyre just different to how we are, and they'll never 'get it'... |
Right.
Unless you can't turn AA on, and then the engine sucks, the game is stupid pos and whatever... |
right, i gather your one of those who cant tell the difference between design and graphics.... graphics quality has nothing to do with atmosphere and design... graphical quality can enhance atmosphere, but ultimately they are two completely different things... engines also have little to do with atmosphere i spose your one of those only interested in graphics and action then, i take it... why else would you bring up aa in a completely unrelated discussion?  |
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Ispep
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| Posted: Fri, 7th Sep 2007 17:26 Post subject: |
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For the same reason he'd take pot shots at Bioshock? He's bored
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LeoNatan
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| Posted: Fri, 7th Sep 2007 17:28 Post subject: |
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| chiv wrote: | | right, i gather your one of those who cant tell the difference between design and graphics.... graphics quality has nothing to do with atmosphere and design... graphical quality can enhance atmosphere, but ultimately they are two completely different things... engines also have little to do with atmosphere i spose your one of those only interested in graphics and action then, i take it... why else would you bring up aa in a completely unrelated discussion? |
I believe that graphics (as in textures, effects, etc), sound (as in voice acting, music, background voices, etc) plus a good story make up the atmosphere. Just like a movie, if it has great script, but bad actors, poorly shot, poorly lit, poorly recorded then the movie will suck.
But this is completely irrelevant. You couldn't enjoy BioShock, which has great atmosphere (because of all the ingredients I counted previously), because you couldn't enable AA. You went as far as calling the engine outdated and saying the graphics suck. And when you say stupid shit like that, well, I'd say what I think of you, but it'd get me banned, and you ain't worth it. |
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chiv
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| Posted: Fri, 7th Sep 2007 17:34 Post subject: |
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graphics dont stand the test of time... design does. thats why games that are 10 years old still have amazing atmosphere by todays standards, even though the graphics are absolutely pathetic when compared to what newer games provide.
aa greatly enhances the visual experience of bioshock... anyone who says otherwise doesnt really have that much interest in visuals to begin with... im not saying with all the wonderful jaggies that bioshock provides that the visuals arent still enjoyable, the aa makes the game look twice as good... i make no apologies for wanting to get the best i can out of the game.
but still... saying i wanted aa in the game has nothing to do with being able to enjoy the atmosphere in the game re-read the original statement in the first post...
i never said the engine was outdated, simply that it wasnt a great one.. i said the textures sucked and i stand by it, they are very poor... but once more. none of that has anything to do with the atmosphere of the game, which i have no problem with... i really dont know why all the hostility. you find graphics irrelivant, where as i do not... i dont see why that is reason to attack me, especially given that its not what this topic is even about...
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| Posted: Fri, 7th Sep 2007 21:54 Post subject: |
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Yes.
I always try to explore each level in the game, and play through it several times (unless the game sucks) to see everything.
Then I go back to the best moments and grab screenshots and record movies.
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| Posted: Fri, 7th Sep 2007 23:40 Post subject: |
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@ ispep: uhm yeah that's a valid point, and i like too at least sometime to immerse myself in a good fantasy or science fiction book, in these cases my imagination can freely create all the scenes and make in my mind all of the scenes in the most beautiful way i like ... however ... as a whole experience i still prefer playing those few great games like SS2 ... during night and with headphones, i will always remember those emotions ...
Let's say that between an astounding book and an astounding game i would choose the second ... unfortunately in the last times (my tastes could have become too much difficult too who knows) i have seen very few of the seconds (at least speaking in "my" fields, rpg/adventure-strategy).
@ aa discussion: i'm the first to say that things that better the aspect of a videogame (but that's true in other fields too) are absolutely not irrilevant in creating the atmosphere, so as the sound greatly helps in it but, nonetheless, there are dated games that still nowadays, with 10 years or so of age, with Vista, DX10 etc around, are capable of beating the overall atmosphere of many "next gen" games.
@ strangera: oh well than i'm not the only one that gets how can i say, frustrated ? when playing games like Oblivion, just too much to explore, it would take who knows how many full months to complete such games for me, so i didn't even try ... too much time for a single game.
There are only 10 kinds of people : those that understand binaries and those that don't.
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| Posted: Fri, 7th Sep 2007 23:50 Post subject: |
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there are two types of gamers "Hipis gamers that think every game it`s a art" and "Rambo gamers that think this game is crap if every 30 sec i didn`t kill a monster"
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Sil3nt
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| Posted: Sat, 8th Sep 2007 21:36 Post subject: |
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if the game is "charge in and kill 20 guys with guns before they kill you" then i dont think theres much time for soaking in the enviroment. possibly what im trying to say is that it all depends on the game itself.
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Cohen
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| Posted: Sun, 9th Sep 2007 08:19 Post subject: |
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Depends on the game.
Sometimes I like to play a game where i can just quickly blast through it.
But usually I do tend to immerse yeah.
Playing RPGs / 3rd person for example I compulsively have to cover every single path and collect every single object, can;t stand to miss anything that coiuld grant a side quest that develops the story etc.
Think worst one ever but was HL2 where i spent about an hour playing with the swings and throwing objects around at the start. hehe.
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| Posted: Sun, 9th Sep 2007 08:53 Post subject: |
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I noticed the same thing with my girlfriend. When I watch a movie I usually turn off the lights and turn sound louder. She insists on having the lights on. I hate that, it reminds me every second that I am here in my room and the movie is over there at the screen.
Any movie/game loses a lot of atmosphere with sunlight/lights on.
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plus u gotta use ur imagination to work with you. on the latest game im playin MOH airborne i had to watch band of brothers to really get me going 
