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 Posted: Thu, 27th Sep 2007 19:49 Post subject: Windows Vista vs Windows XP Performance: 7 Months Later |
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kumkss
Posts: 4834
Location: Chile
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| Posted: Thu, 4th Oct 2007 07:06 Post subject: |
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hm. interesting. they are very equal. gonna give this vista another try.
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| Posted: Thu, 4th Oct 2007 07:09 Post subject: |
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Another year and VISTA might actually run everything decently (eg. sound production software, CS3). The reason why I'm not using VISTA is pretty much the same reason why I'm not using Linux as my main OS right now, and that's lack of compatibility with software that I use on a day-to-day basis. I can wait and see if either OS gets the support... and if Linux is first, then it's byebye Microsoft.
I also think fisk should be unbanned.
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$en$i
VIP Member
Posts: 3127
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| Posted: Thu, 4th Oct 2007 11:47 Post subject: |
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The lack of performance was largely the consequence of Nvidia (dunno for Ati) fucking lame driver support, jeez having to wait 10 months since msdn release to have decent drivers...
@ dominae
Which sound production software doesn't work for you?
I haven't noticed vista specific problems with CS3.
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| Posted: Thu, 4th Oct 2007 12:32 Post subject: |
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Yeah, Nvidia's drivers were absolute shit to start with. ATI's drivers where much more mature.
dominae: Also wondering bout your CS3 problem(s), as CS3 here runs great in Vista here.
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| Posted: Thu, 4th Oct 2007 18:37 Post subject: |
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Now i want to switch to Vista... ;O
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| Posted: Thu, 4th Oct 2007 19:32 Post subject: |
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| xBXSx wrote: | | Now i want to switch to Vista... ;O |
lol I just used vista for like 2 weeks, it may get good performance with games, that's only if vista lets you stay in them long enough to enjoy the performance gains. |
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| Posted: Thu, 4th Oct 2007 19:40 Post subject: |
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| $en$i wrote: |
Which sound production software doesn't work for you?
I haven't noticed vista specific problems with CS3. |
CuBase VSTi with a bunch of Plug-Ins, eg. Addictive Drums.
You can't be using CS3 a lot then. I use it in my digital media design studies every day, from DreamWeaver to Soundbooth, Illustrator and Photoshop. UI gets messed up, and sometimes you can't click some buttons because of Aero. And performance-wise ... sheesh... Soundbooth in CS3 starts up in 7 seconds in XP Pro for me, and the 48kHz 24-bit sound works perfectly - while in VISTA it doesn't work at all presently.
Haven't tried running FL Studio 7 yet, but I suspect the behavior will be similar.
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CaptainCox
VIP Member
Posts: 6823
Location: A Swede in Germany (FaM)
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| Posted: Thu, 4th Oct 2007 19:58 Post subject: |
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PS CS3, Premiere Pro CS3, After Effects CS3 and Illustrator CS3 starts up like in 3-4 secs her. Running SONAR6+VST's and Reason4 and no probs what so ever! Actually no problems at all so far, using Vista Ultimate.
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fwb73
Posts: 293
Location: sheffield, england
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| Posted: Thu, 4th Oct 2007 20:13 Post subject: |
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absolutely no problems with reason4, cubase, mmpro,sonar6, fl7 etc under vista here, maybe you need to sort out your soundcard drivers? im only using onboard hda with spdif output and 48k/192k 24/32 bit works fine. Cant vouch for pro soundcards under vista but as im staying digital until monitoring analogue quality doesnt bother me and my onboard works beautifully with asio4all, very low latency
intel i7 3770k @4.4, ASRock Z77 Extreme 4, 16GB Corsiar Vengance 1600 ram, ATI 5850 BE, Antec 1 Case, Antec 1 550W PSU, emu0404, 120gb agility3 ssd OS, 2x60gbvertex2raid0 Games, 3 TB total sata2 Data. win7 x64.
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CaptainCox
VIP Member
Posts: 6823
Location: A Swede in Germany (FaM)
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| Posted: Thu, 4th Oct 2007 20:53 Post subject: |
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What version of Cuebase are you guys using there?
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| Posted: Thu, 4th Oct 2007 23:10 Post subject: |
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Ill stick with XP. This report just shows driver compatibility for video card. What about driver compatibility for everything else? Let see - Vista installed- 20% of my stuff runs right. XP - everything. Ill stay with XP even though I have a DX10 card too.
RYZEN 5 2600|RADEON 570| |ASRock X370 Killer|DDR4@2800Mhz||Corsair SPEC-05 Case|AOC G2590FX 24.5''144hz 1ms|
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| Posted: Fri, 5th Oct 2007 06:17 Post subject: |
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Sounds like the Vista tales of woe for applications and poor gaming is down to crap drivers. I experience no problems whatsoever videowise (x1950xtx) in games using Catalyst 7.9 drivers and audiowise (onboard HDA ALC 888) using Realtek R1.78 drivers.
100% of what I have installed (hardware and software) works perfectly in Vista. All CS3 apps launch in mere seconds and in no CS3 app is the UI messed up. Games also run faultlessly.
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| Posted: Fri, 5th Oct 2007 07:14 Post subject: |
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No problems? LOL, try running a google search on it. Lots of reports in Adobe forums about issues from everything to the installation itself to bridge, etc.
I tried working with a movie project in school (at the time I had only access to a PC with VISTA) - and boy does it suck compared to home... Premiere crashed every single time I tried to export the movie, I contact Microsoft support and they blame HDlink. Well it works just fine in XP I told them, and then they told me to use XP then (lol). Some support eh, well - at least they were right.
Oh, some bedtime reading:
http://forum.adobe.com/cgi-bin/webx/.3bca0eec
http://www.neowin.net/forum/lofiversion/index.php/t555142.html
http://forum.adobe.com/webx/.3bc45971
http://cdharrison.com/2007/04/26/cs3-install-problems-are-inexcusable/
http://www.flashden.net/forums/thread/flash-cs3-and-vista-what-the-hell/600
So I'm not the only one... you VISTA-fanboys actually use these applications for anything beyond light usage, or are you mostly starting the applications and going "Oh it works!11"?
I guess it could be hardware-related / drivers - that is all the same, if it doesn't work properly on the stuff that runs it 100% fine in XP - then that right there says it's the best for me. And until that changes (eg. VISTA runs it -at least- as well as XP) I'm sticking with it, and everyone best be aware of these issues.
Try it out... if you're just a "light" user of CS3, then VISTA might do fine for ya. Otherwise, avoid it for now.
I also think fisk should be unbanned.
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| Posted: Fri, 5th Oct 2007 07:24 Post subject: |
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Can't add more about CS3 Bridge other than Adobe released an update that broke Bridge in x64 Vista and as for CS3 installation errors they also apply to XP, not just Vista.
You've made it quite clear by spreading it all over the forum that you hate Vista. We get it, you hate Vista. Congrats.
But can you wrap your mind around the fact that there are many people who are not having any problems with anything in Vista? Do you honestly think I'd keep Vista installed as my only OS if there were massive problems? I'd be switching back to x64 XP in a heartbeat if shit didn't work.
It obviously makes sense to stick with the OS that is not giving you problems, for you that's XP, for me, that's Vista.
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fwb73
Posts: 293
Location: sheffield, england
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| Posted: Fri, 5th Oct 2007 09:48 Post subject: |
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agree with manmountain, just because some people have issues with vista it doesnt mean its broken. i know plenty of people who have issues with cs3 and audio apps in xp - but its down to poor drivers and setup. i dont use cs3 much but i use my audio apps professionaly not just for a bit of messing about at college. i have xpmce and vista dual booting and havent needed to touch xp for months now, all relevent drivers have now matured enough for apps, still room for improvement with gfx drivers for games but there always will, in xp or vista. When i build another new rig next week im only going to install vista - no need for xp
Yes i am a vista supporter because it works at least as well as xp. Dominae, you are just a vista hater and an xp fanboi - maybe you need to spend more time sorting out your vista setup than bitching about it.
These are the exact same arguments that came out when xp was released - oh my games dont run in xp but are great in 98, my apps dont run on xp but are great in 2k...blah blah blah. There isnt that much difference under the skin between vista and xp.
intel i7 3770k @4.4, ASRock Z77 Extreme 4, 16GB Corsiar Vengance 1600 ram, ATI 5850 BE, Antec 1 Case, Antec 1 550W PSU, emu0404, 120gb agility3 ssd OS, 2x60gbvertex2raid0 Games, 3 TB total sata2 Data. win7 x64.
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| Posted: Fri, 5th Oct 2007 11:42 Post subject: |
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| ManMountain wrote: |
But can you wrap your mind around the fact that there are many people who are not having any problems with anything in Vista? |
To be frank, no. Honestly, I think you're a deluded fanboy who doesn't know what he's doing - and would rather stick with a poor working version of VISTA than get XP just because you "feel" "somehow" "it's better".
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| Posted: Fri, 5th Oct 2007 11:47 Post subject: |
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| fwb73 wrote: | Dominae, you are just a vista hater and an xp fanboi - maybe you need to spend more time sorting out your vista setup than bitching about it.
These are the exact same arguments that came out when xp was released - oh my games dont run in xp but are great in 98, my apps dont run on xp but are great in 2k...blah blah blah. There isnt that much difference under the skin between vista and xp. |
I've had lengthy debates on this topic and countered your arguments ten times over previously, I won't go through the process again.
As a simplified counter-argument I could just take yours and spin it around:
You're just an XP hater and a VISTA fanboi... etc.
CS3 and many similar apps were designed for XP, no wonder these perform as intended in this environment.
One thing you say is -very- wrong though - and it's funny coming from a VISTA-fanboi: VISTA is architecturally quite different from XP. There are a lot of modifications "under the hood", some that are improvements, other's that need to... mature before being considered anything of the such.How VISTA utilizes the memory for instance is a significant change from XP, where XP would not utilize unused RAM, VISTA "preloads" applications into the RAM to (well, it's the intention) optimize the speed of running apps. It uses a kind of "A.I" to remember your most used apps and pre-load them into your RAM.
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| Posted: Fri, 5th Oct 2007 13:47 Post subject: |
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| dominae wrote: |
To be frank, no. Honestly, I think you're a deluded fanboy who doesn't know what he's doing - and would rather stick with a poor working version of VISTA than get XP just because you "feel" "somehow" "it's better". |
There's no need to go on the defensive. Your simply reaching for excuses to explain away your crap Vista experience, which is fair enough. However, to try and ridicule away my positive sayings about Vista and tarnish me as a "fanboy who doesn't know better" is pretty childish. Sorry to burst your bubble, but I'm no fanboy nor am I a n0ob.
It would seem to me that it's you who doesn't know what he's doing considering your incapable of:
Installing and configuring Vista correctly
Installing Adobe CS 3 Suite correctly
Admitting when you may be wrong
fwb73 - Even though he's a bit of a prat, dominae is correct. Albeit by only mentioning Superfetch (think of that as an evolution of XP's prefetch technology).
Under the hood, Vista has had quite a few changes. Broadly speaking, some subsystems in Vista have been completely rewritten such as audio, display, networking and printing. Overall there are tons off changes, too many to list in this thread. Shame, as it could be discussed but I'd fear dominae would shit all over things.
Let the Anti-Vista poison spewn from some PC incompetent folk continue ...
Last edited by ManMountain on Fri, 5th Oct 2007 13:56; edited 1 time in total
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LeoNatan
☢ NFOHump Despot ☢
Posts: 73196
Location: Ramat Gan, Israel 🇮🇱
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| Posted: Fri, 5th Oct 2007 13:51 Post subject: |
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ManMountain, the problem with dominae is that he is using an old P4 with 512MB ram and some old 2005 versions of the software he mentions. That's why he doesn't like Vista, his PC just can't run it.
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| Posted: Fri, 5th Oct 2007 21:39 Post subject: |
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| ManMountain wrote: | Well, he has said in the past that he has a "6000+ with 2gigs of ram (ddr2) - 15000rpm 40GB system drive and a Sapphire Radeon X1950PRO" but I am starting to have my doubts about his hardware spec. A P4 with 512 megs you say? 
Then again, with his mindless, almost drone-like quality to his monotonous Vista-bashing - I'm starting the think he may indeed have the above hardware, it's just the occupied space between the keyboard and chair that's causing the Vista difficulty. |
and i don't get what it is with any of you, you take it so damn offensive if someone doesn't like the OS your using. Plain and simple the thing that matters most to a computer user is his comfort level with the OS. So what if he hates vista, so do I, do you work with MS so you get extremely irritated when someone says they don't like your product? I personally spent 2-4 hours setting up vista and tweaking shit and while it was fast on it's desktop, I still had performance issues with games and crashing, the OS like to keep locking up, now you can argue all you want about my hardware and "oh it's driver related" but fact is, vista still needs work, get over it and quit using the fanboi card. |
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LeoNatan
☢ NFOHump Despot ☢
Posts: 73196
Location: Ramat Gan, Israel 🇮🇱
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| Posted: Fri, 5th Oct 2007 21:46 Post subject: |
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 @ your location SkypeZ |
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| Posted: Fri, 5th Oct 2007 21:59 Post subject: |
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| ManMountain wrote: |
There's no need to go on the defensive. Your simply reaching for excuses to explain away your crap Vista experience |
Nope, I don't need "excuses" to explain the crap Vista experience - it does it so well on it's own.
| Quote: |
, which is fair enough. However, to try and ridicule away my positive sayings about Vista and tarnish me as a "fanboy who doesn't know better" is pretty childish. |
If you think that, why would you behave the very same way regarding XP? Oh, short-sighted hypocrite... that's fair. xD
| Quote: |
Sorry to burst your bubble, but I'm no fanboy nor am I a n0ob.
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Oh, my mistake. Clearly your word in this dept. hold about as much weight as mine does though.
| Quote: |
It would seem to me that it's you who doesn't know what he's doing considering your incapable of:
Installing and configuring Vista correctly
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Oh, VISTA works "correctly", it just simply outperformed by XP.
| Quote: |
Installing Adobe CS 3 Suite correctly
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There are many ways of installing Adobe CS 3 suite? Would you say the installation in VISTA would be different to the one in XP? They've been installed in the same way on the same hardware - and yes XP performs better. No wonder, since it was designed with XP in mind.
| Quote: |
Admitting when you may be wrong
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Regarding what? Are you saying that the factual less performance in this category hurts your feelings?
| Quote: |
[...] Shame, as it could be discussed but I'd fear dominae would shit all over things.
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I'm sorry if I interrupt your VISTA-evangelism and the true word of your religion - it is a forum, and forums are made for discussions, be they heated or not.
| Quote: |
Let the Anti-Vista poison spewn from some PC incompetent folk continue ... |
Incompetent people shouldn't be the compass of competence my dear.
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LeoNatan
☢ NFOHump Despot ☢
Posts: 73196
Location: Ramat Gan, Israel 🇮🇱
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| Posted: Fri, 5th Oct 2007 22:03 Post subject: |
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| ManMountain wrote: | | It's just the occupied space between the keyboard and chair that's causing the Vista difficulty. |
I see your point... |
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| Posted: Sat, 6th Oct 2007 09:09 Post subject: |
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SpykeZ - It doesn't bother me in the slightest (It's just an OS for goodness sake! lol) and I take utterly no offense if someone doesn't like Vista, more power to them - I've been there. Hence me saying above "It obviously makes sense to stick with the OS that is not giving you problems, for you that's XP, for me, that's Vista". I only get irritated by such stupid statement's that I'm a "fanboy who doesn't know better". Perhaps I should have pointed out to dominae that he's blinded by XP's glory and that his sum PC knowledge can fit snugly onto the back of a postage stamp? But no, I wouldn't lower myself to dominae's fanboyistic level.
As for your problems in Vista with your gaming issues. I can but again say that honestly, Vista does not lockup here, that are no performance issues in any games I play. I can argue the "oh its driver related" because it undoubtedly is. When Vista first appeared it was utterly crap to use. How do I know the cause? Because I removed the Nvidia card and popped in an ATI card and every single issue I had with games immediately vanished. I'm talking night and day here. Shit just started to work, and work reliably. So really, for me, it's not an argument, I know first hand how craptastic the Nvidia's drivers were (and probably still are).
Even my earlier posts show I didn't think much of Vista:
http://www.nfohump.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=495898&highlight=#495898
http://www.nfohump.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=490898&highlight=#490898
http://www.nfohump.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=490743&highlight=#490743
http://www.nfohump.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=490217&highlight=#490217
http://www.nfohump.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=490124&highlight=#490124
http://www.nfohump.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=571903&highlight=#571903
| dominae wrote: |
... my dear. |
dominae - If you could remove your head from your backside, could you enlighten me as to how I am a hypocrite? Could you point out where, in this thread, I chastised you for using XP prior to your fanboy retort?
| LeoNatan wrote: |
I see your point... |
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| Posted: Sat, 6th Oct 2007 09:43 Post subject: |
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| ManMountain wrote: | Perhaps I should have pointed out to dominae that he's blinded by XP's glory and that his sum PC knowledge can fit snugly onto the back of a postage stamp? But no, I wouldn't lower myself to dominae's fanboyistic level.
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But by thinking such you already lower yourself. What claims or what proof do you have of his computer knowledge? How do you know he doesn't know jack shit? So far in this thread I haven't seen him show a lack of anything other than disagreeing with people that vista is anything good. Unless you know him in person I wouldn't jump to judge to some criticism as anyone could say the exact same thing to you in reverse.
It's rather easy to throw the fanboy term around and quite frankly, I only see idiots who have nothing better to do than argue on a forum. Fanboys are nothing more than the ignorant who will defend something to no end regardless of how shitty it is but for the fact they like it, their hypnotized by it and will dismiss anything better. Example, xbox 360 users think their system is better than the PS3, why? cause it had a shitty launch and no games, so that automatically makes it a shitty system to them, when case in fact once the PS3 gets snug into it's position it's going to kick the shit out of it.
I'm not siding with anyone but I will say that Vista is still a shitty OS just like I thought XP was a shitty OS when it first came out. I didn't come to XP cause of the horror I've heard till the end of SP1, couple months later SP2 came out. People don't bother learning about the hidden bullshit in an OS before defending it, just cause "it runs good" for them it automatically makes it the best os when other people judge it on something else.
And quite frankly, both of your bickering has nothing to do with what the thread was supposed to be about, game performance. Just like every vista xp thread it gets raped by people who can't seem to hold a decent conversation and express opinions without getting all defensive and their panties in a bunch
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| Posted: Sat, 6th Oct 2007 11:12 Post subject: |
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Whilst a great read, let's look up and read who actually started the fanboy thread-crapping ...
Last edited by ManMountain on Sat, 6th Oct 2007 11:55; edited 1 time in total
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| Posted: Sat, 6th Oct 2007 11:33 Post subject: |
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The only titles I've encountered a performance hit are with Colin McRae: DiRT and Company Of Heroes: Opposing Fronts. More down to my aging hardware than the OS I'm running though. Neither blew me away, so no big loss to not keeping them installed.
With Crysis and Gears of War on the horizon, hope to be replacing my current CPU for a Q6600 but holding off getting a new GPU for just now.
But with my currently installed games, I'd have to agree with the benchmark linked atop, Vista gaming performance is near to or equal to XP. Shame it's 10 months later. They certainly took their time getting round to it, but Nvidia/AMD-ATI must have been burning many a midnight candle to achieve this feat when you consider the underlying changes in Vista. Course, Microsoft have been busy releasing patches to aid that improvement along.
Perhaps with more benchmarking results appearing or, that, plus the fabled but no doubt disappointment-for-many Vista SP1, folk may be inclined to give Vista a try for themselves... or not as the case may be.
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LeoNatan
☢ NFOHump Despot ☢
Posts: 73196
Location: Ramat Gan, Israel 🇮🇱
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| Posted: Sat, 6th Oct 2007 17:24 Post subject: |
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So, apparently, if you point out that someone's wrong, and what he says is not true is now considered fanboism.
Aight.
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