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 Posted: Thu, 18th Oct 2007 21:45 Post subject: The End Of Usenet ? |
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Parallax_
VIP Member
Posts: 6422
Location: Norway
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| Posted: Thu, 18th Oct 2007 21:55 Post subject: |
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Use existing Usenet topics.
And no, it ain't the end of usenet, mainly because it is decentralized in design.
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Jenni
Banned
Posts: 9526
Location: England.
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| Posted: Thu, 18th Oct 2007 22:22 Post subject: |
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Doesn't the usenet just hold text files anyway?
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Lutzifer
Modzilla
Posts: 12740
Location: ____________________ **** vegan zombie **** GRRAAIIINNSS _______
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| Posted: Thu, 18th Oct 2007 22:55 Post subject: |
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the problem is, that any newsgroup provider with a customer base has billing records that makes it easy to track down all of the illegal downloaders. In germany some pay-for-warez ftp-site-service fucked over alot of customers that way also when they were busted. So if the RIAA gets to take a peak into those customer records alot of people might get fucked over also...
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Jenni
Banned
Posts: 9526
Location: England.
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| Posted: Thu, 18th Oct 2007 23:33 Post subject: |
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Glad to say that in the UK that using Usenet it totally legal. Giganews has my payment details. I'm paying for access nothing more. If I come across civil illegal stuf, thats not my fault or that of my provider. Its the dickhead that upped it.
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Lutzifer
Modzilla
Posts: 12740
Location: ____________________ **** vegan zombie **** GRRAAIIINNSS _______
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| Posted: Thu, 18th Oct 2007 23:58 Post subject: |
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sure, it s still the same with newsgroups in germany afaik. But considering the long arm of the media-mafia and its anti-piracy legislature lapdog politicians in the u.s. and europe i could imagine that that is also susceptible to change...
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Parallax_
VIP Member
Posts: 6422
Location: Norway
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| Posted: Fri, 19th Oct 2007 07:22 Post subject: |
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| Lutzifer wrote: | | the problem is, that any newsgroup provider with a customer base has billing records that makes it easy to track down all of the illegal downloaders |
Depends entirely on the Usenet provider afaik. Giganews does NOT track what you download, only the volume of it. They don't monitor or record your activities, which newsgroup you post to or download from or what you put in the articles you post. They do not release a customer's personal information or usage information to investigators, attourneys or agencies unless they are directed to do so by a coutr of law.
Saying this is the end of Usenet is a bunch of bullshit. Didn't they say the same when RIAA/MPAA started suing p2p networks? There's just no way one of the oldest technologies of the web is going down at all. As usual, RIAA/MPAA are running scare tactics which in effect will get them nowhere. |
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sTo0z
[Moderator] Babysitter
Posts: 7449
Location: USA
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| Posted: Fri, 19th Oct 2007 07:51 Post subject: |
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| Jenni wrote: | | Glad to say that in the UK that using Usenet it totally legal. Giganews has my payment details. I'm paying for access nothing more. If I come across civil illegal stuf, thats not my fault or that of my provider. Its the dickhead that upped it. |
Heh, when are people going to stop denying they are stealing... it makes me laugh everytime.
People go on and on about privacy and who's fault it is and shit, when really they just don't want to be caught, so they will say anything to pass the blame. |
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| Posted: Fri, 19th Oct 2007 08:00 Post subject: |
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I'm just borrowing, I always give it back 
tho I do agree with ya sto0z, I think the funniest case was the xbox 360 banning, god that had me rolling in tears, people threatening lawsuits lmao
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Jenni
Banned
Posts: 9526
Location: England.
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| Posted: Fri, 19th Oct 2007 08:10 Post subject: |
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| sTo0z wrote: |
Heh, when are people going to stop denying they are stealing... it makes me laugh everytime.
People go on and on about privacy and who's fault it is and shit, when really they just don't want to be caught, so they will say anything to pass the blame. |
theft /θɛft/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[theft] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation,
–noun
1. the act of stealing; the wrongful taking and carrying away of the personal goods or property of another; larceny.
Strange I didn't realise I was taking away someone elses property or goods. Wait a minute I haven't. |
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_SiN_
Megatron
Posts: 12108
Location: Cybertron
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| Posted: Fri, 19th Oct 2007 08:12 Post subject: |
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Exactly, downloading is NOT stealing! Theres a big difference..
And im not trying to justify what im doing.
Watercooled 5950X | AORUS Master X570 | Asus RTX 3090 TUF Gaming OC | 64Gb RAM | 1Tb 970 Evo Plus + 2Tb 660p | etc etc
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Parallax_
VIP Member
Posts: 6422
Location: Norway
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| Posted: Fri, 19th Oct 2007 08:14 Post subject: |
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| Jenni wrote: | theft /θɛft/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[theft] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation,
–noun
1. the act of stealing; the wrongful taking and carrying away of the personal goods or property of another; larceny.
Strange I didn't realise I was taking away someone elses property or goods. Wait a minute I haven't. |
steal (stēl)
v. stole (stōl), sto·len (stō'lən), steal·ing, steals
1. To take (the property of another) without right or permission.
2. To present or use (someone else's words or ideas) as one's own.
3. To get or take secretly or artfully... |
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sTo0z
[Moderator] Babysitter
Posts: 7449
Location: USA
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| Posted: Fri, 19th Oct 2007 08:18 Post subject: |
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| Jenni wrote: | | sTo0z wrote: |
Heh, when are people going to stop denying they are stealing... it makes me laugh everytime.
People go on and on about privacy and who's fault it is and shit, when really they just don't want to be caught, so they will say anything to pass the blame. |
theft /θɛft/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[theft] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation,
–noun
1. the act of stealing; the wrongful taking and carrying away of the personal goods or property of another; larceny.
Strange I didn't realise I was taking away someone elses property or goods. Wait a minute I haven't. |
Yah, this site is all about a gathering of saints.... You log into your newsgroup and snag a few cds, a few games, and a few movies, and you're going to sit there and tell me you're not stealing... right. Funny how you have to quote the simplest definition of the word theft to prove your point. You think if law enforcement seized your comp you could play off that bullshit in court? They'd never stop laughing at you.
EDIT: Thanks Parallax.  |
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_SiN_
Megatron
Posts: 12108
Location: Cybertron
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| Posted: Fri, 19th Oct 2007 08:21 Post subject: |
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Ofcourse you can´t play the "I havent STOLEN those!"-talk if the feds busted you, cause the fact still is that its illegal, calling it stealing, pirating or just plain downloading stuff doesnt really matter. It´s illegal and will probably stay that was for the rest of our lives.
It´s just that for me, stealing is when i take something AWAY from someone, so that they dont posses/have it anymore.
Watercooled 5950X | AORUS Master X570 | Asus RTX 3090 TUF Gaming OC | 64Gb RAM | 1Tb 970 Evo Plus + 2Tb 660p | etc etc
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sTo0z
[Moderator] Babysitter
Posts: 7449
Location: USA
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| Posted: Fri, 19th Oct 2007 08:26 Post subject: |
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And I didn't mean it is your fault Jenni (and _SiN_) if you are downloading headers and in doing so you have ACCESS to material that would be considered theft if you downloaded it, that is completely out of your control.
But when you hit that download button and send movie data to your personal computer, that is totally stealing (and rightfully so).
I just meant trying to pass the blame saying it's ok because it's someone elses fault they made it available to you, putting no blame on yourself, that's wrong.
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_SiN_
Megatron
Posts: 12108
Location: Cybertron
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| Posted: Fri, 19th Oct 2007 08:47 Post subject: |
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It's all your fault _SiN_ , ya bastard
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_SiN_
Megatron
Posts: 12108
Location: Cybertron
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Jenni
Banned
Posts: 9526
Location: England.
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| Posted: Fri, 19th Oct 2007 10:39 Post subject: |
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Incorrect Stooz. Downloading copyrighted material isn't illegal in the UK if it is hyperlinked. Theres not been one conviction for it. Uploading is, and when you use p2p software you are uploading. Thankfully, the usenet doesn't make you upload anything copyrighted.  . An easy defination to make is that if something is hyperlinked then its a grey area under UK law. As I use an indexing site with these hyperlinks, then I'm in a grey area of the law.
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Lutzifer
Modzilla
Posts: 12740
Location: ____________________ **** vegan zombie **** GRRAAIIINNSS _______
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| Posted: Fri, 19th Oct 2007 14:20 Post subject: |
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no, it is not stealing, but copyright infringement. Stealing means taking away something, so that one doesnt have it anymore. In the digital world or when xeroxing books, you dont steal, you copy. The copies often arent even the original anymore, because either of degradation of the copy (xeroxing errors, read&write crc-errors) or because somebody even added something to the "copy" (different dvd-layout (dvd9to5 conversion), cracks). So nothing gets stolen, it gets multiplied. Its as if you would say a money-forger was stealing something, while he only duplicates stuff.
So it s copyright infringement.
Copy-rights are some of the latest inventions of our society and where introduced in the 18th century in England by a big publishing lobby and not because the people demanded it. As a matter of fact, in all the western societies the pirates are the democratic majority if you believe the oft non-sensical studies and statistics of the media-industry.
There is a culture of piracy, that fills a need, that seems to be there. Information wants to be free and most likely needs to be free in our modern society. And the publishing houses often take too much money already. When it comes to programs and games it s hard to argue that we are only dealing with information here. It s complex binary code and information resources that when combined with hardware it s a means to an end, not just pure information. Still nobody gets robbed, nothing gets stolen in the act of pirating a game or a program. Often it even facilitates the selling of the products (windows wouldnt be the number on OS anymore if it wasnt for easy piracy and microsofts more than competitive nature, forcing pc-manufacturers to bundle their crap or dont get the software at all / at ridiculous prices...).
Piracy of music is also very understandable as it is a direct reaction to the way the music industry works, as it has forced crap down our ears for ages by manipulating tv and radio and the charts itself just to place their cheapest attempts at music on the best spots making em sell more to make more money out of it, instead of finding and promoting good bands and songwriters.
Still all the copyright holders and intellectual property producers should have the right to give their stuff away in any way or form they want and try to get ahold of people breaking those agreements. But in the light of this culture of piracy alot of companies should rethink their marketing strategies and make good with it. Alot of them are already doing so and changing from per-program pricing to free software and selling the support, or giving stuff away for free and giving the customers the chance to pay as much as they want in return, depending on the appreciation of the ware they got (program, music etc.).
In that regard for me paying for newsgroups is still wrong - as i stated in other threads - because i feel that the money for things i might appreciate is better off going to buying the things directly. Two months of newsgroup-access could be a game-purchase... ...with torrents the money rather goes to my electricity company as the pc is running longer hours, so its kinda the same, but it makes me feel better and gives the industry less of a reason to point fingers at piracy, because they dont perceive higher electricity bills as much of a threat as a web-service that often openly advertises warez availability...
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sTo0z
[Moderator] Babysitter
Posts: 7449
Location: USA
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| Posted: Fri, 19th Oct 2007 19:17 Post subject: |
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Lutz, I really like you man so I'm really not trying to be a dick here, and I hate trying to sound like a broken record, but I would pay money to see you try that argument in court, you would leave with a brand new asshole...
You say information should be free, and should be able to be given away, unfortunately people who upload a CD they bought, or a game, do not have the right to give it away.
I think you really need to be on the other end of the spectrum to feel what you KNOW is right. If you sank THREE YEARS at 40 hours a WEEK into a product and the next day saw 20 kids running down the street with burned copies and you only have one rightful, honest purchase, you'd be singing a different tune.
You know it's wrong, you just don't want to admit it.
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nouseforaname
Über-VIP Member
Posts: 21306
Location: Toronto, Canada
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Jenni
Banned
Posts: 9526
Location: England.
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| Posted: Fri, 19th Oct 2007 21:50 Post subject: |
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| sTo0z wrote: | Lutz, I really like you man so I'm really not trying to be a dick here, and I hate trying to sound like a broken record, but I would pay money to see you try that argument in court, you would leave with a brand new asshole...
You say information should be free, and should be able to be given away, unfortunately people who upload a CD they bought, or a game, do not have the right to give it away.
I think you really need to be on the other end of the spectrum to feel what you KNOW is right. If you sank THREE YEARS at 40 hours a WEEK into a product and the next day saw 20 kids running down the street with burned copies and you only have one rightful, honest purchase, you'd be singing a different tune.
You know it's wrong, you just don't want to admit it. |
I tell you whats wrong Stooz. Is these gaming companies keeping prices artificially high. All of them do it. That is the real theft in my opinion.
You know it costs five ties the price to make a video cassette than to make a dvd film yet I can buy a film on Cassette for a fiver, yet it costs me 15 to 20 to buy the same film on dvd.
Gone are the days that in Victorian times they would put out a product that is the best that they could make at the cheapest price. Something that would last you a lifetime.
Now its how much they can get out of the consumer.
And I'm supposed to be made out like someone that would break in to a house or nick someones car stereo because I dont load that info that shouldnt be a premium price.
Fucking hell Stooz look at the forum you're moderating and say to the average person on here your cunts because you take food out of the mouths of kids whose parents work in that industry. Where in reality its the other way around.
Charge a fair price I say and I'll pay it.
Take the piss out of me and I don't give a shot whose sabre you'll rattle it won't changeme/
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sTo0z
[Moderator] Babysitter
Posts: 7449
Location: USA
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| Posted: Fri, 19th Oct 2007 23:13 Post subject: |
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Two wrongs don't make a right. 
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Jenni
Banned
Posts: 9526
Location: England.
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| Posted: Sat, 20th Oct 2007 01:45 Post subject: |
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I disagree. Your laws were founded on the DP. Germany bombed us we bombed them back. They charge us too much for software, we refuse to pay it.
All wrongs, all fair in my opinion.
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| Posted: Sat, 20th Oct 2007 03:04 Post subject: |
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hahaha thanks for the cheap laughs
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Jenni
Banned
Posts: 9526
Location: England.
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| Posted: Sat, 20th Oct 2007 04:44 Post subject: |
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Why? I see nothing funny from people overcharging for software, films or whatever so they can get rich. Why should I help pay for Britney Spears next coke hit or for some CEO to buy another private jet?
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| Posted: Sat, 20th Oct 2007 05:41 Post subject: |
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| Jenni wrote: | | Why? I see nothing funny from people overcharging for software, films or whatever so they can get rich. Why should I help pay for Britney Spears next coke hit or for some CEO to buy another private jet? |
There's this little thing called capitalism...
don't like it? Start your own revolution.
Otherwise, cough up some cash.
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thats just so funny
