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headshot
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Posts: 35906
Location: UK
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 Posted: Sat, 27th Oct 2007 15:49 Post subject: Missing Operating System! |
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This might be a hardware issue. Im not sure. The error is related to Windows so this is where I am posting.
Basically I work for a small company who build custom machines as per customer requirements. I have been here over 4 years now and I have never had an issue quite like the one I currently have.
The machine specification is as follows.
Aspire X-Plorer Black/Silver Neon Midi Tower w/o PSU
550W EZcool Silent pPFC Power Supply AMD & P4 Ready 12cm Silent Fan 24Pin 6xPCI SATA
AMD AM2 Athlon 64 4600 + Windsor Core, Dual Core 2.4GHz, 2x 512KB Cache, Energy
Gigabyte GA-M52S-S3P (rev 1.0), NF6100, S AM2, PCI-E (x16), DDR2 667/800, SATA II, SATA RAID, ATX
2Gb (2X1Gb) Corsair Value Select, DDR2 PC4300 (533)
512MB XFX 8500GT PCI-E(x16) 533MHz GDDR2, 450MHz 16 Streams D-Sub/DVI/ HDTV
160 Gb Maxtor STM3160211AS DiamondMax 20, SATA300, 7200 rpm, 2MB Cache, 9 ms
Samsung SH-W163B/BEBP Black, 48x CD-ROM 16x DVD-ROM, SATA, OEM
Samsung SH-S203/BEBN 20x DVD±R, 16x DVD±DL, DVD + RW x8/-RW x6, SATA, Black, OEM
Microsoft Windows Vista Home Premium 32Bit 1Pk OEM (DVD)
There is an increasingly apparent and rather temperemental but very serious issue with this machine whichwas built within the last month. So a month ago, it was built and despatched to our customer who had it for approximately one week before bringing it back to us with said problem. He said it would POST but just before the splash screen for Vista appeared, he would get a "missing operating system" error and Windows would not boot. Safe mode and any other options resulted in the same error.
Initially we assumed this to be a one time Windows glitch as we were able to run the Vista repair which fixed the problem. And then the machine was up and running and we had the customer collect his pc. However, a couple of days later, he brings it in again with exactly the same problem. We run hard drive and memory diagnostic checks with no problems. We then decide to format the hard drive and do a clean install of Windows Vista. He has another week out of it and it occurs a third time! By now he is quite annoyed and frustrated as you can imagine!
I have done some research into the problem and those who have the problem seem to have been unable to find a cause or resolution! I think it could be a Vista specific issue but right now I can't be sure. Is there some application I can use to first of all check ALL the hardware is Vista compatible?
I am at a bit of a loss with this one and if anyone has any ideas or suggestions I would be most grateful because should this happen a fourth time, I have a feeling my customer will not only be asking for a full refund but demanding one! I offer my appreciation in advance for any help with the matter.
May the NFOrce be with you always.
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Lutzifer
Modzilla
Posts: 12740
Location: ____________________ **** vegan zombie **** GRRAAIIINNSS _______
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| Posted: Sat, 27th Oct 2007 16:11 Post subject: |
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i got similar problems with xp and overclocking, that overstressed the pci-bus and fucked up the sata-drives rendering the OS unbootable.
So i d first look into sata-related issues and overheating. Change the sata-driver. Check the voltages from the PSU to see if the drives get enough watts. Inconsistent voltage often fucks up drives. Check the temperatures and if the cpu gets enough voltage. Burn-test the cpu from within windows (most memory and hdd tests run without windows) to check if the fan-cpu cooler is sufficient enough. Ask the guy where he has put his pc (some people put them in closed spaces and effectively kill the cooling that way and overheat it as a result. As a precaution you could install a case-fan)
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Nakitu
Posts: 1144
Location: Croatia
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| Posted: Sat, 27th Oct 2007 18:58 Post subject: Re: Missing Operating System! |
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| headshot wrote: | This might be a hardware issue. Im not sure. The error is related to Windows so this is where I am posting.
Basically I work for a small company who build custom machines as per customer requirements. I have been here over 4 years now and I have never had an issue quite like the one I currently have.
The machine specification is as follows.
Aspire X-Plorer Black/Silver Neon Midi Tower w/o PSU
550W EZcool Silent pPFC Power Supply AMD & P4 Ready 12cm Silent Fan 24Pin 6xPCI SATA
AMD AM2 Athlon 64 4600 + Windsor Core, Dual Core 2.4GHz, 2x 512KB Cache, Energy
Gigabyte GA-M52S-S3P (rev 1.0), NF6100, S AM2, PCI-E (x16), DDR2 667/800, SATA II, SATA RAID, ATX
2Gb (2X1Gb) Corsair Value Select, DDR2 PC4300 (533)
512MB XFX 8500GT PCI-E(x16) 533MHz GDDR2, 450MHz 16 Streams D-Sub/DVI/ HDTV
160 Gb Maxtor STM3160211AS DiamondMax 20, SATA300, 7200 rpm, 2MB Cache, 9 ms
Samsung SH-W163B/BEBP Black, 48x CD-ROM 16x DVD-ROM, SATA, OEM
Samsung SH-S203/BEBN 20x DVD±R, 16x DVD±DL, DVD + RW x8/-RW x6, SATA, Black, OEM
Microsoft Windows Vista Home Premium 32Bit 1Pk OEM (DVD)
There is an increasingly apparent and rather temperemental but very serious issue with this machine whichwas built within the last month. So a month ago, it was built and despatched to our customer who had it for approximately one week before bringing it back to us with said problem. He said it would POST but just before the splash screen for Vista appeared, he would get a "missing operating system" error and Windows would not boot. Safe mode and any other options resulted in the same error.
Initially we assumed this to be a one time Windows glitch as we were able to run the Vista repair which fixed the problem. And then the machine was up and running and we had the customer collect his pc. However, a couple of days later, he brings it in again with exactly the same problem. We run hard drive and memory diagnostic checks with no problems. We then decide to format the hard drive and do a clean install of Windows Vista. He has another week out of it and it occurs a third time! By now he is quite annoyed and frustrated as you can imagine!
I have done some research into the problem and those who have the problem seem to have been unable to find a cause or resolution! I think it could be a Vista specific issue but right now I can't be sure. Is there some application I can use to first of all check ALL the hardware is Vista compatible?
I am at a bit of a loss with this one and if anyone has any ideas or suggestions I would be most grateful because should this happen a fourth time, I have a feeling my customer will not only be asking for a full refund but demanding one! I offer my appreciation in advance for any help with the matter. |
There are 2 things that can be. One is that HDD is damaged and thats unlikely and second one is human error. Did he pay with cash or with credit card? I met few people that payed with credit card and needed cash so they sabotaged their pc to get cash back. Or he is idiot and is turning PC off with power off button. If he was clocking you would lower the speeds and OS would boot normal.
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| Posted: Sat, 27th Oct 2007 20:14 Post subject: |
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or it could be a bios error , had this same error over and over again and the only thing that i did to fix this was to de-active M.I.T (I have ga-m55s-s3 rev 2.0) hated this intelligent overclocking function ,
anyway check the hole bios with Ctrl+F1 (it adds new menus) if this crapy MIT didn't tweak the PC to much
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Lutzifer
Modzilla
Posts: 12740
Location: ____________________ **** vegan zombie **** GRRAAIIINNSS _______
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| Posted: Sat, 27th Oct 2007 20:26 Post subject: |
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you re right nakitu, i hadnt thought about user-fault, but i would suspect other reasons first.
@ BlueSkyz: as i said, for me it sounds also like it could be oc'ing related. I dont know the mainboard so i dont know if it has an auto-oc featuer, but alot of newer ones have.
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| Posted: Sun, 28th Oct 2007 01:06 Post subject: |
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Lutzifer this MIT system from Gigabyte controls all things even changes the voltages to most vital parts to make your comp run faster and it the end it makes a sepuku by doing it .
So TO ALL WHO HAVE GIGABYTES BOARDS DISABLE THIS FEATURE IN BIOS .
But maybe Nakitu is right , maybe
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headshot
VIP Member
Posts: 35906
Location: UK
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| Posted: Sun, 28th Oct 2007 02:26 Post subject: |
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Hmm thanks for the replies guys! Im not back at work until Tuesday now but Ill definitely check out that bios option suggestion! Im pretty sure its not something he is doing and that the issue has been present since day one. Ill keep you posted.
May the NFOrce be with you always.
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headshot
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Posts: 35906
Location: UK
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| Posted: Tue, 30th Oct 2007 11:18 Post subject: |
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I found the MIT but how on earth do you disable it? Its all set to default settings but there is no disable option.
May the NFOrce be with you always.
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headshot
VIP Member
Posts: 35906
Location: UK
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| Posted: Tue, 30th Oct 2007 13:53 Post subject: |
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Cool thanks for that dude! I really hope it works coz Im ready for ripping out my hair! The other problem I have is that how the hell do I know the issue is fixed?! I dont want to give it back to my customer if its not fixed!
May the NFOrce be with you always.
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headshot
VIP Member
Posts: 35906
Location: UK
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| Posted: Tue, 30th Oct 2007 19:06 Post subject: |
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The CPU fan - is the one on the CPU , System fan - is the one on the main board (they don't include it in the box you have to buy it , thats really cheap from gigabyte) .
Those warnings only take place when you have the Smart Fan option turned in bios , The cpu fan is OK but when the temp changes (cools down / heats up), fan voltage changes to make it spin faster and then its starts to beep - so this warning is false .
To disable Mit with this program set the manual mode (there should be two blue buttons in the middle - Manual ,Automatic)
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headshot
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Location: UK
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Nakitu
Posts: 1144
Location: Croatia
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headshot
VIP Member
Posts: 35906
Location: UK
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Nakitu
Posts: 1144
Location: Croatia
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| Posted: Tue, 30th Oct 2007 21:36 Post subject: |
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| headshot wrote: |
You suggested human error or a damaged hard drive. The cause of the problem is neither of those things.
Tell me what you think! |
How can you be certain thats not a human error? I would take that PC home and test it. Idk how much time you have before it needs "repaired" but if you can, do that. I know for a fact that BIOS or clocking doesnt damage OS. Only thing that can happpen is for OS to become unstable. Did you check HDD cables? Everytime i need to repair PC that has similiar problems its allways Hdd or Human. There cant be other explanation.Oh did you check disk with Seatools? There is one thing. But its so unlikely and happens almost never so i didnt mention it, but did you consider that PSU is faulty?
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| Posted: Tue, 30th Oct 2007 22:09 Post subject: |
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Just install BAPCo Sysmark 2007 and let it run in batch mode for a few days. If i remember correctly you can even reboot automatically after each run so you can easily monitor if the OS gets corrupted and refuses to boot.
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headshot
VIP Member
Posts: 35906
Location: UK
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| Posted: Tue, 30th Oct 2007 22:36 Post subject: |
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| Nakitu wrote: | | headshot wrote: |
You suggested human error or a damaged hard drive. The cause of the problem is neither of those things.
Tell me what you think! |
How can you be certain thats not a human error? I would take that PC home and test it. Idk how much time you have before it needs "repaired" but if you can, do that. I know for a fact that BIOS or clocking doesnt damage OS. Only thing that can happpen is for OS to become unstable. Did you check HDD cables? Everytime i need to repair PC that has similiar problems its allways Hdd or Human. There cant be other explanation.Oh did you check disk with Seatools? There is one thing. But its so unlikely and happens almost never so i didnt mention it, but did you consider that PSU is faulty? |
I didnt say clocking or the bios damaged the OS but Blueskyz said he had symptoms of the same problem and fixed it by disabling the MIT feature of the motherboard. I probably have until the end of the week really to get this sorted or have a damn good excuse for my customer. The HDD cable is SATA and I did check it. It looks fine and is connected both ends. I havent used Seatools. I tested two hard drives using the hard drive diagnostic feature of Easy Recovey Pro. It cant be a faulty drive because the issue is apparent on two brand new hard drives and the odds of them both being faulty are highly unlikely. I still stick by my original thoughts that its not something the customer is doing either unless he is pulling a fast one or lying but thats not something I can really assume. There was at one point earlier today when the system locked up but the start button menu and mouse pointer were still functioning. The screen went slightly white which I think is Vista's way of saying something isnt responding and the only way I could use it again was after having to press the reset button on the case. I did think about the PSU being at fault but I really didnt think it would be that. I guess I can test that. I do have a PSU tester at work or I can just change the PSU and see if it makes a difference.
| whoKnows wrote: | | Just install BAPCo Sysmark 2007 and let it run in batch mode for a few days. If i remember correctly you can even reboot automatically after each run so you can easily monitor if the OS gets corrupted and refuses to boot. |
If this is something I have to buy, Im not lol. I have looked on my Usenet sources but cannot find anything. I suppose there are optional stress test applications that might be just as good and easy to acquire! Thanks for the suggestion.
May the NFOrce be with you always.
Last edited by headshot on Tue, 30th Oct 2007 22:38; edited 1 time in total
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| Posted: Tue, 30th Oct 2007 22:37 Post subject: |
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| Nakitu wrote: | | headshot wrote: |
You suggested human error or a damaged hard drive. The cause of the problem is neither of those things.
Tell me what you think! |
How can you be certain thats not a human error? I would take that PC home and test it. Idk how much time you have before it needs "repaired" but if you can, do that. I know for a fact that BIOS or clocking doesnt damage OS. Only thing that can happpen is for OS to become unstable. Did you check HDD cables? Everytime i need to repair PC that has similiar problems its allways Hdd or Human. There cant be other explanation.Oh did you check disk with Seatools? There is one thing. But its so unlikely and happens almost never so i didnt mention it, but did you consider that PSU is faulty? |
Nakitu i know that faulty PSU , BIOS or clocking doesn't damage OS only makes it unstable in WINXP BUT we are talking about VISTA here that has 3 death (blue , black and red  ) screens !!!, only said what i did to fix the same error that i had,
So let think straight , Vista runs , plays , he turns off the machine and turns it again and he gets "missing operating system" , Well i can only think that there are 4 problem makers : Hdd is busted , maybe Ram has a defect , maybe he deleted some start files needed for the boot or tried to make a new partition ?
@headshot
yeah its Advanced mode , and you should really stress test it with BAPCo Sysmark 2007 like Whoknows said
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headshot
VIP Member
Posts: 35906
Location: UK
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| Posted: Tue, 30th Oct 2007 22:42 Post subject: |
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| BlueSkyz wrote: | | Nakitu wrote: | | headshot wrote: |
You suggested human error or a damaged hard drive. The cause of the problem is neither of those things.
Tell me what you think! |
How can you be certain thats not a human error? I would take that PC home and test it. Idk how much time you have before it needs "repaired" but if you can, do that. I know for a fact that BIOS or clocking doesnt damage OS. Only thing that can happpen is for OS to become unstable. Did you check HDD cables? Everytime i need to repair PC that has similiar problems its allways Hdd or Human. There cant be other explanation.Oh did you check disk with Seatools? There is one thing. But its so unlikely and happens almost never so i didnt mention it, but did you consider that PSU is faulty? |
Nakitu i know that faulty PSU , BIOS or clocking doesn't damage OS only makes it unstable in WINXP BUT we are talking about VISTA here that has 3 death (blue , black and red ) screens !!!, only said what i did to fix the same error that i had,
So let think straight , Vista runs , plays , he turns off the machine and turns it again and he gets "missing operating system" , Well i can only think that there are 4 problem makers : Hdd is busted , maybe Ram has a defect , maybe he deleted some start files needed for the boot or tried to make a new partition ?
@headshot
yeah its Advanced mode , and you should really stess est it with BAPCo Sysmark 2007 like Whoknows said |
No. Vista runs. Freezes. Customer gets frustrated that its frozen and restarts the machine. Then he gets "missing operating system". The hard drive is not busted, the ram passed a 18 hour memtest86 test and as for deleting files, the hard drive has been formatted and Vista reinstalled since the first occurence of the problem.
Ugh! This damn thing is gonna give me nightmares tonight. I just know it lol.
May the NFOrce be with you always.
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| Posted: Tue, 30th Oct 2007 22:55 Post subject: |
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ok a wild guess here but maybe its a heat problem , did it overheated ?
or ahmmmmmmmmmmmm maybe there is a problem with the mainboard ... but you said the screen went slightly white i would say that this is a Graphic card error but still it don't explains the "missing operating system" error ...
or maybe its like this Vista runs , something goes wrong , GFx card takes more power then normal system goes unstable , hdds work less efficient of the power taken by the gfx and fail to write the data on the exit when this lock up occurs and when the system boots back it writes "missing operating system"
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Nakitu
Posts: 1144
Location: Croatia
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| Posted: Tue, 30th Oct 2007 23:32 Post subject: |
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| headshot wrote: | | There was at one point earlier today when the system locked up but the start button menu and mouse pointer were still functioning. The screen went slightly white which I think is Vista's way of saying something isnt responding and the only way I could use it again was after having to press the reset button on the case. |
Hdd or onboard sata controller. Check PSU to. If it were cpu or ram win would crash.
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headshot
VIP Member
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Location: UK
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| Posted: Wed, 31st Oct 2007 00:20 Post subject: |
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| BlueSkyz wrote: | ok a wild guess here but maybe its a heat problem , did it overheated ?
or ahmmmmmmmmmmmm maybe there is a problem with the mainboard ... but you said the screen went slightly white i would say that this is a Graphic card error but still it don't explains the "missing operating system" error ...
or maybe its like this Vista runs , something goes wrong , GFx card takes more power then normal system goes unstable , hdds work less efficient of the power taken by the gfx and fail to write the data on the exit when this lock up occurs and when the system boots back it writes "missing operating system" |
Nah Im pretty sure the white screen thing is nothing related to a video card problem even though it sounds like it! The screen doesnt go white white. It just hazes over with a bit of white. Im pretty sure that is normal and Vistas way of dealing with an application that has stopped responding. Unfortunately I cant use task manager to close whatever stops responding and depressing the reset switch on the case is the only option. I also checked the temperatures and they are not high at all so I can rule out overheating.
| Nakitu wrote: | | headshot wrote: | | There was at one point earlier today when the system locked up but the start button menu and mouse pointer were still functioning. The screen went slightly white which I think is Vista's way of saying something isnt responding and the only way I could use it again was after having to press the reset button on the case. |
Hdd or onboard sata controller. Check PSU to. If it were cpu or ram win would crash. |
Its not the hard drive. How can it be if I have tried two different hard drives? SATA controller is an interesting thought but I will check out the PSU tomorrow. Personally it would be so nice if it was fixed by just flashing to the latest BIOS update that I did earlier.
Update:
I decided to try an IDE hard drive or PATA as it is now known, in place of the SATA. Ok its not as fast but Im not sure my customer would be concerned. He seemed pretty clueless about anything IT related with the past conversations Ive had with him. Anyway Ive put in the new PATA hard drive, obviously had to reinstall Vista and the drivers but this was two days ago now. I have qcquired Passmark Burningtest and it is currently stress testing the system overnight. It hasnt locked up, crashed, frozen and nor have I seen the infamous "missing operating system" error! So perhaps there was an issue with the SATA controller or it is still yet to screw up and it just hasnt happened yet! Now I have requested the auto restart application in the software thread and hopefully I can set it up to restart continuously for a day or something since the "missing operating system" error only appears before the Vista splash screen. It looks promising but Im not out of the woods on this one yet.
May the NFOrce be with you always.
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