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 Posted: Sun, 3rd Aug 2008 04:20 Post subject: you cant die in OUR game :) |
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what is this new fucking trend of not being able to die? seriously how fucking retarded is that.
FUCK YOU DEVS WHO THINK THAT'S A GOOD IDEA, FUCK YOU AND FUCK YOUR MOM 8D
really dont lock this thread plz im just a poor prince of persia fan who likes dying over and over because of the shitty camera angles
cockcockcockcockcockcockcockcockcockcockcockcock
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| Posted: Sun, 3rd Aug 2008 04:30 Post subject: |
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so console kiddies don't get mad and 3 years old also can play the game 8D
or I guess everyone is looking desperately for an "idea" to make their game "original"
thing is most of those idea suck, and people forgot that they're supposed to be games
and in a game you either win or lose
Last edited by FireMaster on Sun, 3rd Aug 2008 04:34; edited 1 time in total
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| Posted: Sun, 3rd Aug 2008 04:34 Post subject: |
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you can say the same about the "health bar" , now all main heroes must have SUPER REGENERATION POWERS
Last edited by Spiderman on Sun, 3rd Aug 2008 04:34; edited 1 time in total
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-=Cartoon=-
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Posts: 8823
Location: South Pacific Ocean
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| Posted: Sun, 3rd Aug 2008 04:34 Post subject: |
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was thinking bout this the other day actually .. its just.. strange :S
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| Posted: Sun, 3rd Aug 2008 05:45 Post subject: |
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People enjoy winning while believing they are being challenged. If you were to fix a gambling game in the players favor so they would always win they would have more fun than if they actually lost once in a while. They may question why they keep winning but they will always place it on something such as skill, luck, or divine intervention which all three would be clearly wrong.
People love the illusion of winning and doing something great... its the reason why video games exist in the first place. We saved the princess after a long hard journey and now we pat ourselves on the back and brag to others as if we are real life heroes.
The developers know this and they know that losing causes frustration so now they make their games insanely easy so almost everybody ends the game with a smile on their face. Which helps sell sequels. Those of us who want a challenge however are left to die of boredom and a single self inflected gunshot wound. Lets see us respawn from that motherfuckers!
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| Posted: Sun, 3rd Aug 2008 05:59 Post subject: |
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yes I figured as much , especially for consoles they completely dumb down games
I feel bored if I don't find a challenge in a game , it's like I'm using cheats, takes away all what makes a game
as much as I lose and re try a section of a game over and over again I'm enjoying it at the same time.
but meh the next pop is just a squeazing of the saga to get more money off of it the story line is the most unoriginal I've ever seen, for me it ended at the sands of time series.
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| Posted: Sun, 3rd Aug 2008 06:05 Post subject: |
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I don't see the point.
In fact it's a long time you've been able to die in any game, the only thing that changes is how you deal with it.
Savegames are great examples of never being able to die.
So they cut out the middleman, so what?
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vurt
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Location: Sweden
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$en$i
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| Posted: Sun, 3rd Aug 2008 09:59 Post subject: |
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| Quote: | EDIT: worst game ever when it comes to dying is BIOSHOCK though.. if the player dies he ressurects nearby and is recharged with new ammo, power etc. You're being rewarded - for being killed Crying or Very sad
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Even worse is Prey, where you get recharged and everything when you die, but you aren't even put at a nearby "checkpoint " like in bioshock, you just respawn where you left off.
This really kills gameplay tactics..... I mean, what's the point of hiding behind an object waiting for a good head-shot occasion when you can simply dash into the room "rambo style" and press the fire button randomly until everyone is dead. It really kills the gameplay.
The best save system on recent games was in Far Cry if you ask me, well placed checkpoints, just before the difficult sections of a level, and when you died, reloading was the only choice.
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| Posted: Sun, 3rd Aug 2008 10:46 Post subject: |
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Yeah dying in a game is great because it's not something you can do in real life, more than once anyway, they really screwed the new POP where you can't even fall of a ledge really kills the whole platform jumping thing as well.
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Parallax_
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Location: Norway
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| Posted: Sun, 3rd Aug 2008 11:08 Post subject: |
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| vurt wrote: | | EDIT: worst game ever when it comes to dying is BIOSHOCK though.. if the player dies he ressurects nearby and is recharged |
You can turn that off in your options now though, it was added in a patch.
I think it's a fine line between fun- and frustration-factor. Because to me, the old games when you died and you had to restart entire levels instead of just checkpoints, was just plain annoying when I look back. And this whole reload-just-where-you-died or in-the-same-rooms-where-you-died is just too much of an immersion breaker.
I think a checkpoint and the save game system gives the best option for the player. With checkpoints you don't have to replay entire levels, and in most cases it doesn't became an annoyance factor. With save games (I also prefer the option of using quick saving  ) you can save whenever you want to, if you so please.
I can't live without either checkpoints or save games, because I need games to be fun, not frustrating, or having to replay the same place more than twice. It's not about skill for me anymore, that's just people still living in a "hardcore" world to me. Anyone can gain skill by playing x amounts of hours anyway, it's just a matter of how much time you have to waste in that regard. |
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| Posted: Sun, 3rd Aug 2008 11:17 Post subject: |
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| The_Leaf wrote: | This really kills gameplay tactics..... I mean, what's the point of hiding behind an object waiting for a good head-shot occasion when you can simply dash into the room "rambo style" and press the fire button randomly until everyone is dead. It really kills the gameplay.
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hm, some like stealth gameplay, some don't. Now you can choose for yourself and that's a good thing. That itself doesn't kill gameplay imho. However, if you are a goal-oriented person like I am, then you will choose the easier/fastest way to get there, which would probably be rambo style. So I get what you meant but can't agree to 100%.
| madmax17 wrote: | | Yeah dying in a game is great because it's not something you can do in real life, more than once anyway, they really screwed the new POP where you can't even fall of a ledge really kills the whole platform jumping thing as well. |
geez what's so different about not dying and getting transported to the last save platform and die, reload and be at that same platform(checkpoint)?
Am I the only one who hates to redo things I already have done? I play games to entertain myself not to brag about how leet my skillz are because I roxxor this super hard game. So if a game is too easy that sucks, since there is no challenge. If it is too hard it's frustrating. Let's take a game like Sim City you can't really die in there but does it suck just because of that? no!
I also don't want to waste my time on a mediocre game just to be perfect at it, so I can play it. (when I was a kid and had only access to very few games I had the time and patience to do this constantly playing Mega Man 2 and SMB1-3 on NES).
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| Posted: Sun, 3rd Aug 2008 11:34 Post subject: |
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Yes it's only you.
Yes it's very different because it gives you incentive to make that jump perfect so you don't fall and die, if you can't die you lose that incentive and get bored easily, when you can it creates a certain tension and nobody wants to die all the time and start over so you try harder, simple gameplay mechanics.
Yes Sim City is such a piss-poor example  that's not a platformer or a fps it's building management, how do fuck can you kill something that doesn't exist there is no hero protagonist only an urban city planer in that game.
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Ankh
Posts: 23296
Location: Trelleborg
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| Posted: Sun, 3rd Aug 2008 11:38 Post subject: |
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The Bitching Session?
shitloads of new stuff in my pc. Cant keep track of it all.
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| Posted: Sun, 3rd Aug 2008 12:00 Post subject: |
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I'm there !
Anyway, I really don't care. It all depends on the game actually, and the target group. There are more and more players every day so things are (have to be) different than 10-20 years ago.
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| Posted: Sun, 3rd Aug 2008 15:01 Post subject: |
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| Anthirs wrote: | | The Bitching Session? |
no that section is for awful people like watergem so he can bawwwww about selling his clothes on ebay
cockcockcockcockcockcockcockcockcockcockcockcock
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| Posted: Sun, 3rd Aug 2008 23:35 Post subject: |
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| Bitching wrote: | I'm there !
Anyway, I really don't care. It all depends on the game actually, and the target group. There are more and more players every day so things are (have to be) different than 10-20 years ago. |
This would not warrant the change of difficulty in games today. Yes games have to evolve and change but if gaming started off as a challenged and grew into a colossal business then they were certainly doing that part right all along. The ONLY thing more gamers today than the past means is that the developers now get even more sales of their game which means even more $ and in turn should mean HIGHER quality games. Instead most said fuck quality lets just pump this shit out until we bleed dry. And dry it may someday be.
Even the biggest of easily entertained idiots will eventually get bored of the same easy shit repeated in every god damn game.
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Cohen
Posts: 7155
Location: Rapture
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| Posted: Tue, 5th Aug 2008 05:16 Post subject: |
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My take on this is kinda mixed:
Doing away with the fixed health-bar system was a good idea in my opinion. Regenerating health adds tons of fluidity to the game and removes the frustration of having to run around with 5% HP looking for a magical health pack. What the fuck is 5% HP anyway? You have a forefinger and a toe left attached but are bleeding profusely from other limbs? 
On the other hand, games that reward, or fail to punish, the player for dying, are completely pointless. There has to be an element of risk and danger in a game in order for success to have any meaning. The key is striking a balance between difficulty and reward - something at which most all games fail miserably at.
I think the best solution would be a game that has a low regeneration of health instead of a health bar, and limits saves based on difficulty level (ex. Hitman). Ultimately though, its up to the developers to ensure balanced levels and non-cheating AI. They usually don't bother though 
I can never be free, because the shackles I wear can't be touched or be seen.
i9-9900k, MSI MPG-Z390 Gaming Pro Carbon, 32GB DDR4 @ 3000, eVGA GTX 1080 DT, Samsung 970 EVO Plus nVME 1TB
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| Posted: Tue, 5th Aug 2008 12:51 Post subject: |
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| Immunity wrote: |
On the other hand, games that reward, or fail to punish, the player for dying, are completely pointless. There has to be an element of risk and danger in a game in order for success to have any meaning. The key is striking a balance between difficulty and reward - something at which most all games fail miserably at.
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That's a good point one game that does it really well is Gothic, you couldn't die in Gothic unless attacked by an enemy, if attacked by friend it was more of a brawl you could deliver the finishing blow if you wanted to but mostly you didn't, you just took all of his ore and weapons, that was a very good system even tough you couldn't die from friendlies it was even more punishing because losing your hard earned ore and weapons is waaaay worse than having to relode from last save, todays games are for pussies, experience from one Gothic player:
"This isn't just because the developers are sadists, though you might think that. Anyone who's played Gothic or Gothic II will tell you that there are two things, more than anything else that are great about the series: 1) the feeling that the world is real, alive, gritty, and dangerous and 2) the feeling of accomplishment when you've gotten your character to the point where they can survive in it. There is no better feeling than after having spent hours getting your ass handed to you by molerats and bloodflies than to be able to take on a character that could've killed you just by blinking at you hours ago and to come out bruised, bloody, and victorious. Quick example:
In the original Gothic, the guards for the New and Old camps would routinely beat the crap out of your character just because they could. You were constantly getting shaken down for money, protection, etc, and if you didn't give them what they wanted, you'd end up with your face in the dirt and them picking your hard-earned ore off your unconcious ass. I remember one of the guards in the New Camp gave me **** constantly and I was just too weak to do anything about it. So I trained, and I would avoid him when I could, but I was still just not quite good enough to beat him in a fight. Finally, I completed a quest where one of the peasants working in the rice fields, who used to be a blacksmith (or something like that), got tired of watching the guards pick on everyone and instructed me, boosting my strength +5. The next time that guard came after me, I fought him to a standstill, both of us really hurt and bleeding everywhere, until finally I countered and attack and slammed him in the face. Boom. Knocked his ass out. All the peasants are standing around cheering as I finally give this son of a ***** all the **** that he's been giving me right back and steal his weapon and his ore while he's laying in the mud. One of the best feelings I've ever gotten from playing a video game.
Long story short: keep playing. This game will make you work for your victories, and when you finally get to that level, you know you've earned them. And nothing feels better than that."
Of course this is a bad example because you would die normally when killed by an enemy and this game is not a platformer but I pointed out the 'not getting killed by friendlies' bit, if done properly not dying might work if you have a punish and reward system implemented smoothly and logically, of course this is not the case with Bioshock and new POP, they are just poorly designed.
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| Posted: Fri, 8th Aug 2008 22:40 Post subject: |
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Yeah, guess one of next gens feats are that we don´t die anymore.
On one hand we dont need to be hassled with loading, but on the other hand it gave the oportunity to rethink strategies and cry over lost lives.
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| Posted: Thu, 4th Sep 2008 21:51 Post subject: |
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| Posted: Fri, 5th Sep 2008 03:37 Post subject: |
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definitely check angry video game nerd's reviews for difficult games;)
yes
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