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 Posted: Sat, 9th Apr 2011 15:53 Post subject: nvidia finally adds full DX11 multithreading support |
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I've talked about it before: http://www.nfohump.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1437005#1437005
- September 2010: Capcom's Takeuchi said they didn't use DX11 multithreading for their Lost Planet 2 PC port because "the current GPU drivers (Nvidia, AMD) don't support deferred contexts, we have had to give up on the idea of multithreading."
- September 2010: Firaxis' Baker said: "Civilization V, as far as we know, is the first fully threaded DX11 game. Unfortunately, because no other games have used this feature yet, neither Nvidia nor AMD have publically released threaded drivers, so users may not experience all the benefits just yet. We decided to keep threading enabled for Civilization V, however, because we are continuing to work closely with Nvidia and AMD on their support for multi-threading. We expect publically available threaded drivers shortly. Once Nvidia and AMD release threading enabled drivers, we expect the threading to be the biggest single benefit."
- GDC 2011: DICE's Andersson complained about the same thing:
http://www.abload.de/img/dice1v7p5.jpg
http://www.abload.de/img/dice2s7pl.jpg
But a few days ago that changed because nvidia released their 270.51 drivers that now fully support DX11 multithreading. AMD still doesn't offer full support with their drivers.
AnandTech's GPU Editor Ryan Smith has written a post explaining what does full DX11 multithreading support mean after he spoke with nvidia and he was given the ok to explain what their secret that made Civ V to see a big performance boost recently was: http://forums.anandtech.com/showpost.php?p=31520674&postcount=28
| Quote: | With the Release 265 series drivers, NVIDIA enabled partial support for DX11's multi-threaded rendering features. At the time this support was limited to just Civ V, and while it was beyond the experimental stage it was clearly limited to Civ V as that allowed NVIDIA to deploy it against a single known program while they collected feedback and finished the other aspects of multi-threaded rendering.
With NVIDIA's drivers now allowing Civ V to use multiple deferred contexts, Civ V's performance shot way up. With high-end GPUs performance damn near doubled at lower resolutions. Civ V was in fact CPU limited - it was CPU limited because it was only able to use a single thread to assemble its contexts, and that thread was maxing out the single GPU core it could use. This is why drivers played such a big part in Civ V's performance, because how drivers handled D3D11 contexts was the key to unlocking Civ V's performance. |
| Quote: | | In any case, full support for multi-threaded rendering was finally enabled in NVIDIA's Release 270 drivers, which were released last week. At this point any game or application can take advantage of the feature, and not just Civ V. This is also why NVIDIA has finally allowed me to write about what they're previously told me, as they no longer consider it a secret. Finally, on a side note the fact that Civ V had this feature enabled in NVIDIA's drivers early is why performance does not appear to have changed between Release 265 and Release 270. |
| Quote: | So in conclusion, the reason NVIDIA beats AMD in Civ V is that NVIDIA currently offers full support for multi-threaded rendering/deferred contexts/command lists, while AMD does not. Civ V uses massive amounts of objects and complex terrain, and because it's multi-threaded rendering capable the introduction of multi-threaded rendering support in NVIDIA's drivers means that NVIDIA's GPUs can now rip through the game.
This is the true power of DX11. When properly implemented in both drivers and games, DX11's multi-threaded rendering capabilities are going to allow developers to push a lot more stuff out to the GPU without immediately bottlenecking the CPU. |
TWIN PEAKS is "something of a miracle."
"...like nothing else on television."
"a phenomenon."
"A tangled tale of sex, violence, power, junk food..."
"Like Nothing On Earth"
~ WHAT THEY'RE TRYING TO SAY CAN ONLY BE SEEN ~
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CHTUOgYNRzY
Last edited by consolitis on Fri, 23rd Nov 2012 00:00; edited 2 times in total
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| Posted: Sat, 9th Apr 2011 15:55 Post subject: |
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Some numbers from a Civ V benchmark that demonstrate what impact full DX11 multithreading support has: http://forums.nvidia.com/index.php?showtopic=186320&view=findpost&p=1211343
| Quote: |
Final render scores on Civ5 DX11 seem to be getting better with each driver:
262.99:
No Render - 2930
Full Render - 829
266.58:
No Render - 5086
Full Render - 2340
270.32:
No Render - 5356
Full Render - 3670
Spec: Dual Xeon L5335 (8 Cores), GTX465 |
TWIN PEAKS is "something of a miracle."
"...like nothing else on television."
"a phenomenon."
"A tangled tale of sex, violence, power, junk food..."
"Like Nothing On Earth"
~ WHAT THEY'RE TRYING TO SAY CAN ONLY BE SEEN ~
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CHTUOgYNRzY
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xDBS
Posts: 1937
Location: USA / Japan
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| Posted: Sat, 9th Apr 2011 16:01 Post subject: |
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Thanks for the post. Very interesting read.
I'm actually curious to how AMDs Technology would preform
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LeoNatan
Banned
Posts: 73193
Location: Ramat Gan, Israel 🇮🇱
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| Posted: Sat, 9th Apr 2011 16:04 Post subject: |
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Could it be Crytek delayed dx11 because of this?
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garus
VIP Member
Posts: 34200
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| Posted: Sat, 9th Apr 2011 16:05 Post subject: |
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snip
Last edited by garus on Tue, 27th Aug 2024 21:48; edited 1 time in total
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| Posted: Sat, 9th Apr 2011 16:13 Post subject: |
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| iNatan wrote: | | Could it be Crytek delayed dx11 because of this? |
Interesting thought. It didn't cross my mind.. Hm..
It's funny because AMD complained about the same thing and they said DX11 somewhat helps but not that much, but they still have to offer full support: http://www.nfohump.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1446429#1446429
| Quote: | On consoles, you can draw maybe 10,000 or 20,000 chunks of geometry in a frame, and you can do that at 30-60fps. On a PC, you can't typically draw more than 2-3,000 without getting into trouble with performance, and that's quite surprising - the PC can actually show you only a tenth of the performance if you need a separate batch for each draw call.
Now the PC software architecture – DirectX – has been kind of bent into shape to try to accommodate more and more of the batch calls in a sneaky kind of way. There are the multi-threaded display lists, which come up in DirectX 11 – that helps, but unsurprisingly it only gives you a factor of two at the very best, from what we've seen. And we also support instancing, which means that if you're going to draw a crate, you can actually draw ten crates just as fast as far as DirectX is concerned.
But it's still very hard to throw tremendous variety into a PC game. If you want each of your draw calls to be a bit different, then you can't get over about 2-3,000 draw calls typically - and certainly a maximum amount of 5,000. Games developers definitely have a need for that. Console games often use 10-20,000 draw calls per frame, and that's an easier way to let the artist's vision shine through.' |
TWIN PEAKS is "something of a miracle."
"...like nothing else on television."
"a phenomenon."
"A tangled tale of sex, violence, power, junk food..."
"Like Nothing On Earth"
~ WHAT THEY'RE TRYING TO SAY CAN ONLY BE SEEN ~
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CHTUOgYNRzY |
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chiv
Posts: 27530
Location: Behind You...
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| Posted: Sat, 9th Apr 2011 16:23 Post subject: |
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why would crytek weather the shitstorm that they did if they could help it?
they could have just said 'we arent releasing till nvidia fixes its drivers'... ANYTHING to shift the blame.
the fact they just ignored it and said we arent doing dx11 till later - its not a focus for is, leads me to believe completely that this has nothing to do with crysis 2 not having dx11.
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tonizito
Posts: 51172
Location: Portugal, the shithole of Europe.
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| Posted: Sat, 9th Apr 2011 16:27 Post subject: |
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| iNatan wrote: | | Could it be Crytek delayed dx11 because of this? |
Come on AMD, now move your asses and implement this shit too!
| boundle (thoughts on cracking AITD) wrote: | | i guess thouth if without a legit key the installation was rolling back we are all fucking then |
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LeoNatan
Banned
Posts: 73193
Location: Ramat Gan, Israel 🇮🇱
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| Posted: Sat, 9th Apr 2011 16:29 Post subject: |
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| tonizito wrote: | | Come on AMD, now move your asses and implement this shit too! |
What? This is a totally useless feature; a gimmick for nVidia - just like SM3.0 and DX9!  |
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JBeckman
VIP Member
Posts: 34608
Location: Sweden
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| Posted: Sat, 9th Apr 2011 17:24 Post subject: |
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Shogun 2 would be a good point for AMD to introduce support then once that DX11 patch is released, Battlefield 3 afterwards as Dice points out in the above images and from how they've set up Frostbite 3.0 supposedly.
(And hopefully without brand specific tweaks and hacks to have it more universally adapted though as it's DirectX already it'll probably be fine.)
Crysis 2 might see it just because but I don't see the game as being that multi-core problematic or limited so gains would be minor probably aside from a little marketing if AMD keeps lagging behind, 11.4 seems unlikely to have these so a preview and then 11.5 at the earliest I guess, now that both companies are stepping things up a bit again.
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