The arpg- or hack 'n slash called by others are by far my most beloved game genre . For me those are a triumph of the gameplay over the story in a game
Is there something more rewarding than to see a unique peace of armor drop after long and bloody battle with a huge and hard hitting boss creature ?
Or to manage to escape from dozen bloodthirsty demons chasing your fragile mage across half the area map when your mana potions are gone
Unfortunately the developers just don't make this kind of games anymore... There are roughly 1-2 such games in an year. Compared to the daily dev spam of various first person shooters and strategy games (half of which are WW2 themed but that's another story) ,the annual editions of sports/racing games and pretty much everything else... it's just sad.
In the last 5 years there are only a handful of arpgs..
the good Dungeon Siege 2 & exp. in 2005/2006 ,
the great Titan Quest and his exp in 2006/2007,
the boring Loki in 2007
the ok but lacking Sacred 2 in 2008..
well also Mage knight apocalypse ( terrible) Legend Hand of God (love that fairy cursor) and.. Hellgate London - but they got flagshipe.. um, failed..
The only game that will be out in the next years is Diablo III... and nothing else on the horizon.... isn't that depressing...
So i'm forced to play all the crappy korean grindfests because there is nothing else.. and i've already played and seen everything the above games have to offer.
The ARPG genre is one of my all-time favourites.. and you're right, they're so lacking lately. D3 won't be with us until 2010 at the earliest and there's nothing else I can think of that's due out. I've resorted to going back in time and playing the spectacular TQ and DS titles.
:'(
I wish the PS2 emulator would hurry the fuck up, as the Snowblind titles are excellent hack'n'slashers (like Baldurs Gate, Fallout, Champions) - but they don't run properly on the emulator yet. *sigh*
I think you forgot the Elder Scrolls series (Oblivion and its expansion), Fallout 3, Two Worlds, the Gothic series, etc. Or did you mean only the top-down ARPGs specifically?
But in any case, the complexity of these games has to be considered before ranting they come so seldom. Creating a rich world, from conception to execution, is a hugely time consuming process. This process has grown ten folds in the last few years, where graphics are a huge factor in a game's success. Even less successful games in genre take great amounts of time because of the aforementioned creation process. It used to be "create a few tiles, piece them together like a puzzle, write some dialog, enjoy." Now it's much more complicated.
Can't speak for Hellgate London, I was underwhelmed by how awful it was, but Oblivion and Fallout 3 for example, for me, had a great story, and aren't what I'd consider non-action RPG. Wikipedia's definition to ARPG:
Quote:
An action role-playing game is a video game based on role-playing combat systems, and typified by a heavy emphasis on real-time combat against large numbers of enemies. Games in the genre often simplify or remove non-combat attributes associated with more traditional role-playing games, such as charisma (the ability to manipulate enemies socially in lieu of fighting them).
I personally define an ARPG as one that solely revolves around combat and the development of your characters stats/skills/gear rather than heavy story elements or worthless numbers that dictate how well you persuade NPC's in branching text.
These are the games that you sit down and kill, kill, kill for loot and/or XP to progress your characters strength.
Oblivion and Fallout 3 are pathetic attempts at being RPG's. Given the story had a linear path the RPG elements all together could have been removed (Levels/XP) Instead they could have made both Action Adventure games (Which is what I think they are, nothing else)
The illusion of a open world is what sways people to believe both those games are RPGs. I won't even get into why I think both are just mediocre games made by mediocre dev's.
Given the story had a linear path the RPG elements all together could have been removed (Levels/XP) Instead they could have made both Action Adventure games (Which is what I think they are, nothing else)
I wish the PS2 emulator would hurry the fuck up, as the Snowblind titles are excellent hack'n'slashers (like Baldurs Gate, Fallout, Champions) - but they don't run properly on the emulator yet. *sigh*
I'm sorry I just couldn't let this part of your comment hang in the air. Baldurs Gate and Fallout are by no means 'hack'n'slashers'. They are pure RPG's. I don't know what is your definition of an Hack 'n' Slash game, but mine is a game that it's main gameplay focus is on fast paced combat. Fallout is anything but fast paced. Saying that Fallout is a Hack 'n' slasher is like saying that Planescape was a hack 'n' slash.
P.S. I wasn't talking about Fallout 3. It's not part of the Fallout series as far as I'm concerned.
Last edited by ToastMan on Sat, 4th Apr 2009 13:32; edited 1 time in total
Give Chronicles of Spellborn a try. Excellent combat system, best ever in a mmorpg. Its very hard in some later stages. Feels a bit like Gothic. Theres F2P with a levelcap of 8. Dont listen to bad reviews from WoW nerds, they fixed a lot of issues and added content since release anyway.
Client DL is some 4 Gigs but be aware there are two different clients for EU and US.
Video shows gameplay from the beginning:
Combat System:
Last edited by FastMemFirst on Sat, 4th Apr 2009 13:41; edited 1 time in total
I personally define an ARPG as one that solely revolves around combat and the development of your characters stats/skills/gear rather than heavy story elements or worthless numbers that dictate how well you persuade NPC's in branching text.
You DO realize that that's only YOUR preference, do you? For others, an RPG (even defined with the ACTION term in front of it's name) without a strong story is a boring-repetitive and shallow experience.
KrAzY-KaMeL wrote:
Oblivion and Fallout 3 are pathetic attempts at being RPG's. Given the story had a linear path the RPG elements all together could have been removed (Levels/XP) Instead they could have made both Action Adventure games (Which is what I think they are, nothing else)
Here, you are, IMHO, quite right. Neither F3 nor Oblivion aren't reaching a very deep level of immersion through story or character evolution. Still, they do a great job in immersing the player into a pretty rich and vast universe. And yes, they are more Action RPG's than pure role-playing experiences. Even if they don't classify as your favorite isometric (top-down) view.
KrAzY-KaMeL wrote:
The illusion of a open world is what sways people to believe both those games are RPGs. I won't even get into why I think both are just mediocre games made by mediocre dev's.
Well, either we want it or not, the open-ended universe/world-space is on it's way to become a trend and perhaps, soon, it will be a must for a satisfying gaming experience. No matter if we speak of RPG's or shooters. And btw, nowadays it seems that even a shooter seems empty without some RPG elements. Heck, even Dead Space is gorgeous due to the small but quite effective RPG elements.
And, finally, I can't agree with your last statement. Bethesda may have created a heartless game with Oblivion (speaking from a generic and exemplificative pov of a hardcore RPG lover, that picks story over everything and will die still saying that the only true RPG's are Planescape Torment and Baldur's Gate II) and quite a letting-down game for old fans with Fallout 3. But still, they created some of the best RPG's out there. In terms of identity and also in terms of innovation: The Elder Scrolls.
Oh, and not that it would matter: I personally don't like aRPGs. ^.^
For me, any game that defines itself as a role-playing experience should allow me to play a ROLE in a certain story/universe, by allowing me to making choices and evolve my avatar. Slashing like a madman, like there's no tomorrow, just for leveling up a character is deffo NOT my style.
Well, either we want it or not, the open-ended universe/world-space is on it's way to become a trend and perhaps, soon, it will be a must for a satisfying gaming experience. No matter if we speak of RPG's or shooters. And btw, nowadays it seems that even a shooter seems empty without some RPG elements. Heck, even Dead Space is gorgeous due to the small but quite effective RPG elements.
Agreed 100%
I've definitely been spoiled now with RPG elements, so much so that I honestly feel bored and cut-off from a game if it doesn't have some kind of customisation or progression system. It sucks because not every game will have those kinds of features (hell, I'd even play HALO if it had RPG elements to it ) and that usually ends up with me feeling let down.
Well, genre blurring has been going on for long time. There just aren't enough buyers to target with strict genre rules, so games are made "streamlined" and more "accessible" by mixing genres to appeal to wider audience. "Oh, you don't want to devote time to level a character? OK, spam with the button, that will be enough."
Give Chronicles of Spellborn a try. Excellent combat system, best ever in a mmorpg. Its very hard in some later stages. Feels a bit like Gothic. Theres F2P with a levelcap of 8. Dont listen to bad reviews from WoW nerds, they fixed a lot of issues and added content since release anyway.
Client DL is some 4 Gigs but be aware there are two different clients for EU and US.
Video shows gameplay from the beginning:
Already did that.
Yes, the combat system is, IMO also, better than WoW's. But again, so is the one from Age of Conan. I am playing both atm. Trial ofc.
But, sadly, that's not enough. And speaking of Spellborn, limit to level 8 is pure crap. One can reach that level in one day. Especially if you know the mechanics of an MMO and want to find out more of it by pushing it forward. Thus you can't really figure out what the hell the game is all about.
Age of Conan has one of the best gameplay fighting system i've ever seen in a game. It's a combo of skill (decision of spell/ability used), reaction (dodge/parry is possible by double-tapping a movement key - this leading to small bonuses in char stats) and role-playing elements (spell/skill system). I tell ya'... it's absof**kinlutely great. Too bad it's instanced, breaks my PC in half and it's content is not elevated enough (in terms of quantity and quality) to deserve a monthly fee.
Age of Conan would have made an extraordinary SINGLE PLAYER RPG. Heck, even an ARPG.
Goddamn Blizz. Even their TRIAL offer for WoW is more practical, informative, longer, immersive and addictive (for newcomers) than other trials for other MMO's.
Sacred 2 with the current patches has much improved, anyone who remotely likes ARPG's should give it a try. I consider it Diablo 2.5 at the moment, definitely one of the best ARPG's made. As for story, I don't remember a single thing about the story in D2, yet I still rate it as one of the best ARPG's ever made. It's all about slicin' and dicin'. As comparison, I remember every aspect of PS:T's story even though I've only played it twice in ten years.
Oblivion is a superior RPG experience with the mods. Bethesda is brilliant in creating interesting worlds with a technically great engine, but sadly their games lack soul/gameplay. But Oblivion with mods is truly a great RPG experience. Vanilla Oblivion bored me, but now I'm hooked on it. Setting up teh mods takes a couple of hours, but once it's done you're in for a great ride.
I personally don't like that every damn genre needs RPG elements and an open world. I miss the truly linear games like HL, games you play for the experience. I'm an RPG guy, but I do need some intense action from time to time. Gamers these days expect stats and the "do whatver the fuck you want to do" gameplay, so devs play into that. Most of the time though, it just feels wrong and forced :/
I wish the PS2 emulator would hurry the fuck up, as the Snowblind titles are excellent hack'n'slashers (like Baldurs Gate, Fallout, Champions) - but they don't run properly on the emulator yet. *sigh*
I'm sorry I just couldn't let this part of your comment hang in the air. Baldurs Gate and Fallout are by no means 'hack'n'slashers'. They are pure RPG's. I don't know what is your definition of an Hack 'n' Slash game, but mine is a game that it's main gameplay focus is on fast paced combat. Fallout is anything but fast paced. Saying that Fallout is a Hack 'n' slasher is like saying that Planescape was a hack 'n' slash.
P.S. I wasn't talking about Fallout 3. It's not part of the Fallout series as far as I'm concerned.
He's talking about the PS2 titles, not the PC ones
I wish the PS2 emulator would hurry the fuck up, as the Snowblind titles are excellent hack'n'slashers (like Baldurs Gate, Fallout, Champions) - but they don't run properly on the emulator yet. *sigh*
I'm sorry I just couldn't let this part of your comment hang in the air. Baldurs Gate and Fallout are by no means 'hack'n'slashers'. They are pure RPG's. I don't know what is your definition of an Hack 'n' Slash game, but mine is a game that it's main gameplay focus is on fast paced combat. Fallout is anything but fast paced. Saying that Fallout is a Hack 'n' slasher is like saying that Planescape was a hack 'n' slash.
P.S. I wasn't talking about Fallout 3. It's not part of the Fallout series as far as I'm concerned.
He's talking about the PS2 titles, not the PC ones
Ahhh... I wasn't aware that there was a Baldurs Gate PS2 title. Sorry for the mix up...
Yes, the combat system is, IMO also, better than WoW's. But again, so is the one from Age of Conan. I am playing both atm. Trial ofc.
Got the 3 Month Premium Edition of Spellborn for 11€ at Amazon and i can say it gets much better if you reach the other shards like Ringfell Hearth. Damn hard there but here you need to know how your skilldeck works and if you managed it it fucking rocks. Its really addicting. And its definitively an Action RPG.
I'm still sad that Mythos got brought down along with Flagship. Hellgate London, was crap, but Mythos, it had LOADS of potential, and it was very fun as you got to higher levels (I do admit that the earlier levels (1-15) were average at best, but it got better and better the higher you got).
I agree.
So with that, may I suggest the thread author try Fate and/or Fate Undiscovered Realms?
I have bought both. The same guy that was brought on by Flagship to work on Mythos, made Fate. And, anyone that played Mythos will quickly see some similarities.
Fate, IMHO, is one of the most under looked ARPG games out there. It is like Rogue but with pretty good graphics.
Give those a shot. Can't beat them really.
Ah yes, i've played the 2 Fates as i take every chance for such a game It's pretty cool & cute dungeon crawler but it's pretty much a budget title, a solid one, but not in the same league as the full budget products.
p.s. i tried dungeon runners but somehow was not impressed.
Runes of magic is the f2p mmo out there. Rich content and the biggest asortiment of different rated items and set items that i've ever seen in any (free) mmorpg
Hm, there were quite some comments above what defines an arpg.
Indeed for me the top down view is a classical case of arpg-ing, mostly because it give nice & informative view on the area- giving you a chance to view all the things crawling towards you from all directions. Tho the camera angle may be different as well..
But the main thing for me- is.. well.. the action. I pretty much don't consider Fallout & Oblivion & KOTORS and such as action- rpg- because of the dialogs, characters interactions and relationship that there are in ( not that this is a bad thing, it's good for the 'normal' rpgs. )
The main things i like, is to be able to just leave behind my char tons of slain enemies, while prowdly wearing the new rare items set - searching for more ways to become powerful
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