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 Posted: Sat, 1st Aug 2009 19:51 Post subject: Valve: Fight used sales by making good, supported games |
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While visiting Valve this past week to pop zombie heads in Left 4 Dead 2, we took the time to sit down with marketing VP Doug Lombardi to chat about two subjects very close to my heart -- used games and piracy. While Valve has used Steam as a great way of dealing with such issues, we wondered whether the studio's retail games suffered at all, and what they made of the whole used game debate. Lobardi's answer was quite refreshing.
"We always see these overall numbers, like how much money GameStop's making per year off of used game sales," he says, "but we really don't have a breakdown of details for those. I don't personally know, after being at Valve since Half-Life 1, how many copies of our games per year are sold used, and on the PC versus the 360, so I think there's a certain amount of information that's missing, sort of like piracy. I think a lot of folks cry piracy when a game fails to hit their forecast and it may or may not be part of the problem, and it may or may not be all of the problem, but I think to throw any one reason at any problem is probably a mistake, considering the lack of information on both fronts.
"Having said all that, though, I think that it's probably true to say that gamers tend to have affinity for the games that they like, so if you're doing your job and making a good game, and providing a high level of service for that game at the time of release and post-release, I'm guessing you're probably less of a victim of piracy and trade, because people want to have the full copy, the legal copy, and have all the updates.
"I think there are ways of curbing both piracy and used game sales by providing a higher level of service at the time of launch and post-launch. And I think what we're seeing, as platforms become more and more connected, that this problem will become less and less an issue as the idea of offering a service post-launch becomes more and more en vogue."
It's always good to see a developer that doesn't stomp its feet and have a trantrum because GameStop's exploiting the same free market that they exploit. I'm totally with Doug on this one -- people keep games that they like, and that they feel they can get their money's worth from. If your game wasn't made to be worth keeping, you shouldn't whine and moan when it's sitting on a GameStop shelf a week later.
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http://www.destructoid.com/valve-fight-used-sales-by-making-good-supported-games-142089.phtml
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| Posted: Sat, 1st Aug 2009 20:44 Post subject: |
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| Glottis wrote: | How many of these threads do we really need? Maybe there should be one centralized "piracy debate" thread, because right now we have threads like this one every few days.  |
+10
Plus we don't really care about piracy on this forum  yaaaarh |
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| Posted: Sat, 1st Aug 2009 21:05 Post subject: |
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| Posted: Sat, 1st Aug 2009 22:18 Post subject: |
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| Posted: Sat, 1st Aug 2009 22:52 Post subject: |
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| Perdurab00 wrote: | | quit the spam, thanks |
Spamming is writing something that it's not relating to the pc gaming. I for one care very much about what's happening right now to the pc games. I see a trend that is use more and more. And that is games released only on console and not to the pc. And many argue that the reason they don't bother with making a pc game is because of piracy.
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ixigia
[Moderator] Consigliere
Posts: 65049
Location: Italy
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| Posted: Sun, 2nd Aug 2009 02:01 Post subject: |
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| Posted: Sun, 2nd Aug 2009 06:13 Post subject: |
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Gabe's said almost the exact same thing before. It is good to see a big games corporation taking a sensible stance however and looking at it in realistic terms.
Valve make great games. Valve distribute for others through an easy to use medium at reasonable value.
As a side effect of this they don't believe piracy is as bad an effect as some developers would have you believe. Says it all really.
I've only starting handing over real money since discovering steam sales. They even found a way to milk an extra bit of cash for old titles out of hardcore pirates who stole the game previously.
They're PC gaming gods.
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Epsilon
Dr. Strangelove
Posts: 9240
Location: War Room
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| Posted: Sun, 2nd Aug 2009 06:23 Post subject: |
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| EwarWoo1 wrote: |
Valve make great games. Valve distribute for others through an easy to use medium at reasonable value.
They're PC gaming gods. |
Too bad they fail at math;
Example
A game costs 50$ USD with VAT and whatnot.
At the current exchange rates, said game would equal 35.37€ EURO but lets make it an even 36€ to be generous.
But Steam charges 50€ for the same game, 50€ at the current exchange rates equals
70.69$ USD but lets make it an even 70$ to be very generous.
Thats still 20$ USD more for the same game, when you're in europe buying on the same service.
That is why I think Steam is bad and Gabe Newell should get his school money back for math lessons failed. |
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LeoNatan
☢ NFOHump Despot ☢
Posts: 73194
Location: Ramat Gan, Israel 🇮🇱
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| Posted: Sun, 2nd Aug 2009 06:24 Post subject: |
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I want to see Gabe's response when L4D2 doesn't sell all that well. Let's see who he blames then.
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crossmr
Posts: 2965
Location: South Korea
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| Posted: Sun, 2nd Aug 2009 06:34 Post subject: |
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how did they support L4D1? fans don't seem to be feeling supported on that..
Intel i5 6500 3.2Ghz, Geforce 970GTX 2GB, 16 GB Ram, Windows 7
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| Posted: Sun, 2nd Aug 2009 06:36 Post subject: |
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| Epsilon wrote: | | EwarWoo1 wrote: |
Valve make great games. Valve distribute for others through an easy to use medium at reasonable value.
They're PC gaming gods. |
Too bad they fail at math;
Example
A game costs 50$ USD with VAT and whatnot.
At the current exchange rates, said game would equal 35.37€ EURO but lets make it an even 36€ to be generous.
But Steam charges 50€ for the same game, 50€ at the current exchange rates equals
70.69$ USD but lets make it an even 70$ to be very generous.
Thats still 20$ USD more for the same game, when you're in europe buying on the same service.
That is why I think Steam is bad and Gabe Newell should get his school money back for math lessons failed. |
You've forgot to add in the taxes they'd have to pay to the government of the region they're distributing to. It's not that straight forward an equation. Maybe they passed maths but you just missed the lesson about taking other variables into account?
Not to mention they're as business. I'm sure you can get games even cheaper in Thailand. They charge at what the market rate is, not at what the lowest common denominator is. It's called maximising profits and I think you'd struggle to find many successful companies who don't so it.
What cause's that market price is the question, is if softco's ripping off Europeans or is it high taxes on games in the local region?
Whichever way, a bit harsh picking on just Valve for doing what the entire industry does, just because they're more transparent about it.
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| Posted: Sun, 2nd Aug 2009 06:40 Post subject: |
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| crossmr wrote: | | how did they support L4D1? fans don't seem to be feeling supported on that.. |
Geez, 5 updates in 2 months, which include enhancements as well as bug fixes, I should think they are feeling neglected.
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Epsilon
Dr. Strangelove
Posts: 9240
Location: War Room
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| Posted: Sun, 2nd Aug 2009 06:44 Post subject: |
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| EwarWoo1 wrote: | | Epsilon wrote: | | EwarWoo1 wrote: |
Valve make great games. Valve distribute for others through an easy to use medium at reasonable value.
They're PC gaming gods. |
Too bad they fail at math;
Example
A game costs 50$ USD with VAT and whatnot.
At the current exchange rates, said game would equal 35.37€ EURO but lets make it an even 36€ to be generous.
But Steam charges 50€ for the same game, 50€ at the current exchange rates equals
70.69$ USD but lets make it an even 70$ to be very generous.
Thats still 20$ USD more for the same game, when you're in europe buying on the same service.
That is why I think Steam is bad and Gabe Newell should get his school money back for math lessons failed. |
You've forgot to add in the taxes they'd have to pay to the government of the region they're distributing to. It's not that straight forward an equation. Maybe they passed maths but you just missed the lesson about taking other variables into account?
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No the prices are including VAT according to Steam's so called 'transparent' information.
I do not believe it 'harsh' to critisize them, just because "other companies do the same thing" that really doesn't matter all that much to me as a consumer.
Furthermore if you upon the simultaneous release of a game on steam and retail, go to store and buy the game, you pay around or maybe less than the 50$ USD.
And here the expenses are argueably higher for the publisher as they have to pay for boxes, casing, printing, layout and design.
Whereas Steam only have to pay for the data transfer, which won't amount to nearly as much. |
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| Posted: Sun, 2nd Aug 2009 06:51 Post subject: |
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| crossmr wrote: | | how did they support L4D1? fans don't seem to be feeling supported on that.. |
I don't wanna turn this thread into a L4D2 hating one but the L4D2 announcement was quite a slap in the face for me.
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| Posted: Sun, 2nd Aug 2009 07:16 Post subject: |
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| FireMaster wrote: | | I don't wanna turn this thread into a L4D2 hating one but the L4D2 announcement was quite a slap in the face for me. |
"I don't wanna turn this thread into a L4D2 hating one, but I'm going to practically try to do exactly that!"
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chiv
Posts: 27530
Location: Behind You...
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| Posted: Sun, 2nd Aug 2009 07:29 Post subject: Re: Valve: Fight used sales by making good, supported games |
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tad bit hypocritical given that valve fucking DUMPED l4d the second it came out, in favor of putting all their efforts and the 'intended' support, into a new full priced game, lol.
not only are they jackasses, they've now become HYPOCRITICAL jackasses. all in the space of only 1 year, lol
particularly nice that they were discussing the very game that is the ULTIMATE fucking example of a shitty company strategy DESIGNED make people dump games quickly. wooooooh valve ftw  i only wish i COULD on-sell my copy of l4d, lol.
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| Posted: Sun, 2nd Aug 2009 07:41 Post subject: |
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So, people are still convinced that there is any definitive sort of proof that no more updates for L4D are coming?
Retards. When you're talking about a company as quiet and secretive as Valve, absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.
Correcting people since 2007 even if they're not wrong.
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chiv
Posts: 27530
Location: Behind You...
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| Posted: Sun, 2nd Aug 2009 09:37 Post subject: |
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| Cedge wrote: | So, people are still convinced that there is any definitive sort of proof that no more updates for L4D are coming?
Retards. When you're talking about a company as quiet and secretive as Valve, absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. |
you honestly believe that valve will support an old dead-end game, when they have a nice new shiny one out? makes no sense to support two games that are essentially the same. any effort/support will only go into the new one, because there is no point supporting two seperate user bases for what is essentially ONE game.
if valve had any intent on supporting the original, the promised content would have been released... its not like they weren't working ON that content... its just that you have to pay to get it now.
try to be less of a retard if you can manage it. just because its valve does not mean they can do no wrong, no matter how hard you try to convince yourself of this. |
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| Posted: Sun, 2nd Aug 2009 10:19 Post subject: |
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| chiv wrote: | | if valve had any intent on supporting the original, the promised content would have been released... |
L4D is less than 10 months old. You just can't fucking say that they're done updating/supporting it. There is no way to disprove things that haven't happened yet, when it's still fairly early in the game's life. That's retarded.
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D34Dite
Posts: 1724
Location: Norn Iron, UK
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| Posted: Sun, 2nd Aug 2009 14:37 Post subject: |
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| FireMaster wrote: | | crossmr wrote: | | how did they support L4D1? fans don't seem to be feeling supported on that.. |
I don't wanna turn this thread into a L4D2 hating one but the L4D2 announcement was quite a slap in the face for me. |
not just you, mate... me and tens of thousands of other l4d owners
when there is no more room in hell, the D34D will walk the earth
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LeoNatan
☢ NFOHump Despot ☢
Posts: 73194
Location: Ramat Gan, Israel 🇮🇱
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| Posted: Sun, 2nd Aug 2009 14:39 Post subject: |
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| Spiderman wrote: | | NOW THATS RETARDED |
No, that's smart business, when they have retarded fanbois that will buy anything blindly. |
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| Posted: Sun, 2nd Aug 2009 16:13 Post subject: |
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| Spiderman wrote: | | Left4dead - don't think so |
I don't get how it's not supported "as shit" when they've released 5 updated over the last 2 months.
People keep saying it's not supported but that makes no sense to me :/
In fact the supported "as shit" TF2 you hark on as 1 update since June 25, 2009 when L4D was 5 updates ago.
It's just bollocks hysteria to promote a bollocks agenda.
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| Posted: Sun, 2nd Aug 2009 18:48 Post subject: |
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L4D2 boycotting is the most stupid thing I've ever heard of. You're complaining that the only new things in L4D2 are maps, weapons and gamemodes? Well guess fucking what, that's what 90% of all sequels are. I don't see anyone complaining about Modern Warfare 2, when that is EXACTLY the same thing.
Sorry for off-topic.
Ontopic: I agree with Chet completely. Make a great game, and people will buy it.
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| Posted: Sun, 2nd Aug 2009 20:02 Post subject: |
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| dezztroy wrote: | | L4D2 boycotting is the most stupid thing I've ever heard of. You're complaining that the only new things in L4D2 are maps, weapons and gamemodes? Well guess fucking what, that's what 90% of all sequels are. I don't see anyone complaining about Modern Warfare 2, when that is EXACTLY the same thing. |
NO
one is a SP story driven game with a MP
the other is a MP Co-op driven game like IN QUAKE3
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