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Ronhrin
Banned
Posts: 6428
Location: Paradigms are changeable, reality is absolute.
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 Posted: Fri, 18th Dec 2009 22:51 Post subject: The climate change summit is a joke! |
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What I am going to argue here can be very well traced back to me watching the documentary Collapse a few days ago, but the thing is, I never, ever, take what is said in a documentary for granted, and while personally I think Michael Ruppert has all it's facts right, he is definitely narrow minded in some aspects and not good enough informed in other topics.
With this in mind, I admit that his words drove me to do some research and I came to learn some things that I was completely oblivious to.
I came to learn for instance that it is common knowledge as well as scientific fact that the planet is due to run out of oil until 2057, more than 50% of all the global known oil reserves have been completely emptied while we keep consuming it at a faster rate, (mainly due to increase in population as well as standard of living).
I will not paraphrase Ruppert's conclusions, if you want you can watch the documentary.
My point here is this, while some still argue if global warming is caused by man or not, there is one point that everyone agrees upon, if global warming is indeed caused by man, then it is without a shadow of a doubt because of all the CO2 emissions resultant of burning oil and all it's derivatives.
This is not an idea or a theory, this is a fact, so one question comes to mind, if everyone (in power) knows that we are due to run out of oil within the next 40-50 years, then what is the point in this summits trying to reduce 15% - 20% the global CO2 emissions until 2020?
In my opinion this is nothing more than some purposely created illusion to make the population believe that there is something being done while hiding the fact that the true reason for this theatrical display is that no government wants to admit that the days of oil are counted and no one seems to have a solution on what to do next, when oil ends.
So I come to realize that this is all an illusion for the people, to keep us all in denial as if the action being made by the worlds governments meant anything at all.
What are your thoughts on this?
He who sacrifices freedom for security deserves neither
- Benjamin Franklin - 1759
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| Posted: Fri, 18th Dec 2009 23:07 Post subject: |
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why do people drive hybrids? because they think it's better for the planet blabla (or is at least advertised as such). same shit with recycling. as you've already said, it all creates a illusion. as the old saying goes, "it's the thought that counts"- the problem is just that it's being applied in a cynical manner here.
and as long as oil companies throw a spanner in the works, nothing will change as long as the oil reserves don't run dry.
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nouseforaname
Über-VIP Member
Posts: 21306
Location: Toronto, Canada
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| Posted: Sat, 19th Dec 2009 00:56 Post subject: |
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| bushwacka wrote: | | same shit with recycling. as you've already said, it all creates a illusion. |
no it diverts solid waste from our landfills.
for example 42% of the waste in Toronto doesn't go to landfills anymore...
http://www.toronto.ca/garbage/facts.htm
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| Posted: Sat, 19th Dec 2009 01:41 Post subject: |
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| nouseforaname wrote: | | bushwacka wrote: | | same shit with recycling. as you've already said, it all creates a illusion. |
no it diverts solid waste from our landfills.
for example 42% of the waste in Toronto doesn't go to landfills anymore...
http://www.toronto.ca/garbage/facts.htm |
...which is good, but toronto is only one of the few prime examples. and even there, the stuff that can't be recycled in an effective way just goes somewhere else instead of landfills.
the problem with recycling is simply that our every day things, especially packaging, isn't made with recycling in mind, except:
aluminium - but then again, it's a pretty stupid idea to use it for cans anyway
biological waste. just dump it in a hole ant put some plants on top of it
now some may say, but what about paper? fuck paper, fuck the trees. cut em down and then plant new ones - because a young, growing tree snorts the co2 faster out of the air than paris hilton could ever do a line of coke 
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nouseforaname
Über-VIP Member
Posts: 21306
Location: Toronto, Canada
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| Posted: Sat, 19th Dec 2009 01:46 Post subject: |
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| bushwacka wrote: | | nouseforaname wrote: | | bushwacka wrote: | | same shit with recycling. as you've already said, it all creates a illusion. |
no it diverts solid waste from our landfills.
for example 42% of the waste in Toronto doesn't go to landfills anymore...
http://www.toronto.ca/garbage/facts.htm |
...which is good, but toronto is only one of the few prime examples. and even there, the stuff that can't be recycled in an effective way just goes somewhere else instead of landfills.
the problem with recycling is simply that our every day things, especially packaging, isn't made with recycling in mind, except:
aluminium - but then again, it's a pretty stupid idea to use it for cans anyway
biological waste. just dump it in a hole ant put some plants on top of it
now some may say, but what about paper? fuck paper, fuck the trees. cut em down and then plant new ones - because a young, growing tree snorts the co2 faster out of the air than paris hilton could ever do a line of coke |
maybe they just don't recycle as much in fritzl land? here everything that is packaging (besides shrink wrap) is recyclable. and you can't find a public garbage can without a recycling bin beside it.
if it can't be used fpr recycling it goes nowhere but a landfill. we bury our trash here in N.America and hope it doesn't poison the Earth (although it says the new dump has "the latest technology including onsite treatment of leachate and a methane gas collection and flaring systems.") I think they incinerate a fair bit of garbage in EU instead though...
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TSR69
Banned
Posts: 14962
Location: Republic of the Seven United Provinces
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| Posted: Sat, 19th Dec 2009 08:40 Post subject: |
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well we gonna run out of oil sooner or later - according to the Shell top manager from 2015 and onwards delivering enough oil will already be problematic - but there is still enough coal left
that might prolong our fossil fuel based economy and causing an even worse climate change in the end
so we should change to a renewable energy sources ASAP
many challenges ahead also think about our groceries, everything is wrapped in plastic or foam these days, all oil derivatives
it will costs us but it will also create hundred thousands of jobs
Formerly known as iconized
Last edited by TSR69 on Sat, 19th Dec 2009 11:23; edited 1 time in total
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| Posted: Sat, 19th Dec 2009 11:18 Post subject: |
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The people with the power are stupid. Why you ask? Because they have so much power so they don't have to think. Instead they pay people to think for them, and present them with the answers that satisfy them.
And why is that bad? Well they are happy with the things as they are today - oil produces money, so as long as they have money to control other people they are happy.
The problem is that the transference to new technology require money, and while the development of new tech is beneficial in many ways, it costs money and only produces it in the loong term, not immediately.
And that's where the problem is: money and greed...
And unless we develop the way to live on Mars, and allow only smart people (by smart I mean the ones who are capable of thinking on their own) to go there we are pretty much fu*ked...
I still wait a giant meteor to struck Earth 
"Quantum mechanics is actually, contrary to it's reputation, unbeliveably simple, once you take the physics out."
Scott Aaronson | chiv wrote: | | thats true you know. newton didnt discover gravity. the apple told him about it, and then he killed it. the core was never found. |
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twobells
Banned
Posts: 2878
Location: England
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| Posted: Sun, 20th Dec 2009 13:06 Post subject: |
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It'll be business as usual, what makes me laugh is all the people who voted for Obama thinking thing's will change, what a bunch of maroons! The core structures will always remain the same driven by big business for big business.
Fact: The amount of hot air generated by the Copenhagen Conference On Climate Change as well as the emission costs from their private jets and cars has directly increased global warming, the vast majority of business could have been dealt with in video conference.
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| Posted: Wed, 23rd Dec 2009 19:11 Post subject: |
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http://www.informationisbeautiful.net/visualizations/climate-change-deniers-vs-the-consensus/
Nice summary  (White background version down below)
White background version:
 Spoiler: | |
| Quote: | Some Notes
I researched this subject in a very particular way. I deliberately chose not speak directly to any climate experts or leading scientists in the field. I used only publicly available web sources.
Why? Because I wanted to simulate what it’s like for people trying to learn about climate change online.
My conclusion is “what a nightmare”. I was generally shocked and appalled by how difficult it was to source counter arguments. The data was often tucked away on extremely ancient or byzantine websites. The key counter arguments I often found, 16 scrolls down, on comment 342 on a far flung realclimate.org post from three years ago. And even when I found an answer, the answers were excessively jargonized or technical.
Most of the info for this image is sourced from Realclimate.org. It’s an amazing blog staffed tirelessly by some of the world’s leading climatologists.
Unfortunately, the majority of the writing on there is so scientific and so technical, it makes the website nigh on useless to the casual, curious reader.
Runaway Feedback
This image was a mammoth undertaking, especially for someone like me, unschooled in climate science. So I appreciate your understanding if any errors have crept into the process. If you spot any, please get in touch and I’ll will correct them on the double.
In every case, wherever possible, I went back the original data. (I’ve included a ZIP of all the data I’ve collected plus a spreadsheet of all the sources). And all the graphs in the image are generated from the original temperature records and other data sources. Feel free to rifle through and check everything.
RealClimate.org are (now) keeping an archive of all the data – if you want even more!
http://www.realclimate.org/index.php/data-sources/
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ixigia
[Moderator] Consigliere
Posts: 65081
Location: Italy
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| Posted: Mon, 28th Dec 2009 02:20 Post subject: |
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Rofl_Mao
Posts: 3187
Location: Nederland
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| Posted: Mon, 28th Dec 2009 17:05 Post subject: |
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Of course Copenhagen is a joke. People want to earn as much money as quickly as possible, and things get too difficult when you have to think of the environment and climate as well.
In the long run climate change will cost much more if no action is taken, but most people lack the education and intellectual qualities to be concerned about long term effects. So they simply vote for leaders that pretend to be doing something, to silence our collective conscience.
I'd keep an eye on Holland, as we may very well become the first developed Western nation that will officially reject the idea of man made global warming. The ultra right wing freedom party PVV is poised to win the coming elections, and one of their main ideas is that global warming is a hoax from the left wing multicultural elite. A victory for the retarded, and a dubious honour indeed.
| Lopin18 wrote: | I think you played too much Fallout 3, Pedo Perk acquired.  |
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