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 Posted: Mon, 13th Jun 2011 18:34 Post subject: |
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Doesn't bother me that much. They stopped making games I want to play a decade ago.
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| Posted: Mon, 13th Jun 2011 18:37 Post subject: |
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| pillermann wrote: | | Doesn't bother me that much. They stopped making games I want to play a decade ago. |
They'd still be making those games if the publishers weren't so greedy (huge dev. costs these days for big titles aren't exactly helping either, of course).
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| Posted: Mon, 13th Jun 2011 18:38 Post subject: |
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Since i don't buy games i couldn't care less, but good article.
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BLaM!
VIP Member
Posts: 13818
Location: Germany
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| Posted: Mon, 13th Jun 2011 18:44 Post subject: |
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good read..where's gonna end , or will they keep on going like this..
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| Posted: Mon, 13th Jun 2011 19:01 Post subject: |
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Such a great article.
But if we are to talk about how many games try to copy CoD let's not forget how many "Doom clones" tried to copy Doom. There were hundreds of them released...
TWIN PEAKS is "something of a miracle."
"...like nothing else on television."
"a phenomenon."
"A tangled tale of sex, violence, power, junk food..."
"Like Nothing On Earth"
~ WHAT THEY'RE TRYING TO SAY CAN ONLY BE SEEN ~
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CHTUOgYNRzY
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ixigia
[Moderator] Consigliere
Posts: 64926
Location: Italy
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| Posted: Mon, 13th Jun 2011 19:06 Post subject: |
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I even watched some of the conferences this year in order to have an overall view of what's really happening, and the results are indeed disconcerting. I'm discovering hot water saying that gaming is mainstream business now, and obviously nobody cares about the quality of their
products as long as releasing the same old crap keeps selling like hotcakes. The next generation of consoles will probably put the final nail in the coffin of Gaming.
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| Posted: Mon, 13th Jun 2011 19:14 Post subject: |
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| ixigia wrote: | | I even watched some of the conferences this year in order to have an overall view of what's really happening, and the results are indeed disconcerting. I'm discovering hot water saying that gaming is mainstream business now, and obviously nobody cares about the quality of their products as long as releasing the same old crap keeps selling like hotcakes. The next generation of consoles will probably put the final nail in the coffin of Gaming. |
Sorry, but that's... rather unlikely. Whilst you can argue that Gaming as we know it might end soon, you could also argue that is already has. Other than the new Deus Ex, what mature games are there coming out? No, Gaming won't end with the new consoles, but it will become a lot more like the film industry, and a lot less like the books industry. Up until fairly recently, there's been a decent proportion of games that cover a wide variety of genres and play-styles. That'll change, so that Deus EX:HR (for example) will be the exception, not the rule. But Gaming won't die out. It'll just be different. And it might not be bad, it just won't be like the old days.
Pixieking
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ASUS P8P67 Evo - Intel i7 3770k - 2X4GB GSkill RipJaws X DDR3 1600 - HIS 7950 IceQ - Creative XtremeMusic Soundcard - NZXT Phantom 530 - Thermaltake Toughpower XT 675 - Win7 x64
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ixigia
[Moderator] Consigliere
Posts: 64926
Location: Italy
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| Posted: Mon, 13th Jun 2011 19:25 Post subject: |
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| Pixieking wrote: | | ixigia wrote: | | I even watched some of the conferences this year in order to have an overall view of what's really happening, and the results are indeed disconcerting. I'm discovering hot water saying that gaming is mainstream business now, and obviously nobody cares about the quality of their products as long as releasing the same old crap keeps selling like hotcakes. The next generation of consoles will probably put the final nail in the coffin of Gaming. |
Sorry, but that's... rather unlikely. Whilst you can argue that Gaming as we know it might end soon, you could also argue that is already has. Other than the new Deus Ex, what mature games are there coming out? No, Gaming won't end with the new consoles, but it will become a lot more like the film industry, and a lot less like the books industry. Up until fairly recently, there's been a decent proportion of games that cover a wide variety of genres and play-styles. That'll change, so that Deus EX:HR (for example) will be the exception, not the rule. But Gaming won't die out. It'll just be different. And it might not be bad, it just won't be like the old days. |
I meant Gaming "as we know (and love) it" of course  (and I completely agree with you about the strong similarity between the movie industry and this "pseudo-gaming"  ) |
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| Posted: Mon, 13th Jun 2011 20:13 Post subject: |
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There needs to be more middleground between cheap indies that look like ass and take 5 hours to complete and 50mil dollar AAA titles (that look like ass and take 5 hours to complete).
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| Posted: Mon, 13th Jun 2011 20:28 Post subject: |
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| pillermann wrote: | | There needs to be more middleground between cheap indies that look like ass and take 5 hours to complete and 50mil dollar AAA titles (that look like ass and take 5 hours to complete). |
There are games like Zeno Clash and Trine, that fit nicely in-between (maybe not in terms of duration, but their visuals are great).
But there aren't that many of those (yet), I agree.
TWIN PEAKS is "something of a miracle."
"...like nothing else on television."
"a phenomenon."
"A tangled tale of sex, violence, power, junk food..."
"Like Nothing On Earth"
~ WHAT THEY'RE TRYING TO SAY CAN ONLY BE SEEN ~
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CHTUOgYNRzY |
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| Posted: Mon, 13th Jun 2011 20:34 Post subject: |
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Trine had potential, just needed more content. Should be feasible to make proper, full-length games out of these with a little more budget. Gfx were certainly fine.
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Pixies
Posts: 382
Location: Deep in the Caribbean
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| Posted: Mon, 13th Jun 2011 21:01 Post subject: |
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Very good read. In all likelihood though, the only people to read all of it will be the ones already of a similar opinion.
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.
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| Posted: Mon, 13th Jun 2011 21:06 Post subject: |
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When people will stop watching E3 and looking past all those tripple A titles, they'll find plenty of awesome games elsewhere.
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| Posted: Tue, 14th Jun 2011 00:33 Post subject: |
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Fuck no, you can't lay the blame on capitalism. Capitalism is a framework, within that, you can do whatever you wish, it doesn't force you or anything (unlike communism).
Also, when did Valve become the evil empire? I fucking love them mostly, bought all their games almost. l4d1 neing the odd one out.
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| Posted: Tue, 14th Jun 2011 00:47 Post subject: |
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| Radicalus wrote: | Fuck no, you can't lay the blame on capitalism. Capitalism is a framework, within that, you can do whatever you wish, it doesn't force you or anything (unlike communism).
Also, when did Valve become the evil empire? I fucking love them mostly, bought all their games almost. l4d1 neing the odd one out. |
I knew I should have edited my post I don't hate Valve, in fact I'm pretty happy with them, and I don't hate Capitalism, but...
Valve is now the evil empire if they choose to be, luckily they haven't done so yet, but from an Econ's point of view, they should be acting like Activision and still rake in the dough.
Capitalism is the best system so far Imo, but it certainly has it's flaws like everything else.
Capitalism works best when several parties compete in whatever field they may be in, but the irony of it all, is that by playing this "game" of capitalism, these parties are actually trying to reach a position that will allow them to wipe out the competition and when that happens they are potentially the "Evil Empire" because now they can fuck over the costumer since the company have too much power, and that will undermine the healthy competition that keeps the developers on their toes and the costumers happy.
I don't have a better solution, but this is certainly a problem in Capitalism.
"Sometimes when you do things right, people are not sure you've done anything at all." -- God (Futurama)
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| Posted: Tue, 14th Jun 2011 00:58 Post subject: |
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Well, Capitalism comes with anti-monopoly and anti-cartel legislation. In most industries, when competing producers of a certain product band together, and refuse to lower prices to compete (ie make a cartel deal) then the law takes over, as it should. In the games industry, such laws don't exist, this cartel is called instead a standard. And if you take a good look, they are raisin the price on games, gauging how far we will go, which leads me to my main point:
Capitalism is such a framework, where everything values as much as someone is willing to pay for it (total freedom) - and if you have millions of idiots willing to pay 60 euros for shit, you can't blame the system, because idiots were idiots.
Culture and information is the perfect counterbalance to companies trying to exploit capitalism, gaming derps have no culture, and even less information. We should educate them instead of blaming the system.
The system is fine, just that people are idiots. Derps are the reason for all the problems - of course, companies like Acti also do their part in conditioning these derps in a positive feedback loop, where derps will become even more derp, demand derp, then they get fed some derp, so they demand more derp.
Know what I mean? 
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| Posted: Tue, 14th Jun 2011 01:13 Post subject: |
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| Radicalus wrote: | Well, Capitalism comes with anti-monopoly and anti-cartel legislation. In most industries, when competing producers of a certain product band together, and refuse to lower prices to compete (ie make a cartel deal) then the law takes over, as it should. In the games industry, such laws don't exist, this cartel is called instead a standard. And if you take a good look, they are raisin the price on games, gauging how far we will go, which leads me to my main point:
Capitalism is such a framework, where everything values as much as someone is willing to pay for it (total freedom) - and if you have millions of idiots willing to pay 60 euros for shit, you can't blame the system, because idiots were idiots.
Culture and information is the perfect counterbalance to companies trying to exploit capitalism, gaming derps have no culture, and even less information. We should educate them instead of blaming the system.
The system is fine, just that people are idiots. Derps are the reason for all the problems - of course, companies like Acti also do their part in conditioning these derps in a positive feedback loop, where derps will become even more derp, demand derp, then they get fed some derp, so they demand more derp.
Know what I mean? |
Your reasoning is sound
Btw. You should consider writing a book on the Subject "Derp" Call it "I derp"
"Sometimes when you do things right, people are not sure you've done anything at all." -- God (Futurama)
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| Posted: Tue, 14th Jun 2011 01:17 Post subject: |
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| maul_inc wrote: | | Radicalus wrote: | Well, Capitalism comes with anti-monopoly and anti-cartel legislation. In most industries, when competing producers of a certain product band together, and refuse to lower prices to compete (ie make a cartel deal) then the law takes over, as it should. In the games industry, such laws don't exist, this cartel is called instead a standard. And if you take a good look, they are raisin the price on games, gauging how far we will go, which leads me to my main point:
Capitalism is such a framework, where everything values as much as someone is willing to pay for it (total freedom) - and if you have millions of idiots willing to pay 60 euros for shit, you can't blame the system, because idiots were idiots.
Culture and information is the perfect counterbalance to companies trying to exploit capitalism, gaming derps have no culture, and even less information. We should educate them instead of blaming the system.
The system is fine, just that people are idiots. Derps are the reason for all the problems - of course, companies like Acti also do their part in conditioning these derps in a positive feedback loop, where derps will become even more derp, demand derp, then they get fed some derp, so they demand more derp.
Know what I mean? |
Your reasoning is sound
Btw. You should consider writing a book on the Subject "Derp" Call it "I derp" |
I actually have articles already published in books, but it's not gaming related, I do have a life other than games, but this is my passion for fucks sake! Gaming was by smart people for smart people, and I can't let the past go! So frustrating, fuck it!
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| Posted: Tue, 14th Jun 2011 01:23 Post subject: |
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| Radicalus wrote: | | maul_inc wrote: | | Radicalus wrote: | Well, Capitalism comes with anti-monopoly and anti-cartel legislation. In most industries, when competing producers of a certain product band together, and refuse to lower prices to compete (ie make a cartel deal) then the law takes over, as it should. In the games industry, such laws don't exist, this cartel is called instead a standard. And if you take a good look, they are raisin the price on games, gauging how far we will go, which leads me to my main point:
Capitalism is such a framework, where everything values as much as someone is willing to pay for it (total freedom) - and if you have millions of idiots willing to pay 60 euros for shit, you can't blame the system, because idiots were idiots.
Culture and information is the perfect counterbalance to companies trying to exploit capitalism, gaming derps have no culture, and even less information. We should educate them instead of blaming the system.
The system is fine, just that people are idiots. Derps are the reason for all the problems - of course, companies like Acti also do their part in conditioning these derps in a positive feedback loop, where derps will become even more derp, demand derp, then they get fed some derp, so they demand more derp.
Know what I mean? |
Your reasoning is sound
Btw. You should consider writing a book on the Subject "Derp" Call it "I derp" |
I actually have articles already published in books, but it's not gaming related, I do have a life other than games, but this is my passion for fucks sake! Gaming was by smart people for smart people, and I can't let the past go! So frustrating, fuck it! |
It truly is a dark time for us gaming geeks. I wish gaming was like in the 90's. Lot's of creative game makers for me to enjoy, the non geeks in school that sometime teased me for having an uncool hobby I could deal with.
Today it seems that those jerks have taken up gaming and of course they are a majority 
"Sometimes when you do things right, people are not sure you've done anything at all." -- God (Futurama)
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| Posted: Tue, 14th Jun 2011 01:27 Post subject: |
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| Posted: Tue, 14th Jun 2011 01:29 Post subject: |
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| Posted: Tue, 14th Jun 2011 02:03 Post subject: |
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Welp. Seems it's finally time to get back into pen and paper games.
Screw all this gears of brown and medal of duty: modern battlefield.
Screw Legend of Mario Kart Kirby 25th anniversary edition.
I wholeheartedly agree with the article but haven't we been seeing this trend for years now?
Most of us already felt that the industry was entering a sort of stupour.
The same after the same after the same ad infitum.
I buy less and less games each year and those I do buy are by now either indie titles or old games I liked a lot back in the days.
I believe the last three big titles I bought were Mass Effect 2 (once I played ME and read the first book they had me. I love the stories and I love the setting),
Heavy Rain - which I found was a very well executed "game". The story was intriguing the characters (mostly) believable
and L.A. Noir which I had been waiting for for years. And even if the gameplay was a bit lacking in certain parts it too was an engaging experience.
So basically two of my three latest AAA buys were sort of interactive movies.
For me storytelling has always been the most important.
I don't care how good your game looks if the story it tells (if it tells one at all) isn't interesting I'll probably won't finish it.
I wish I could come up with THE solution for the industries problem but I can't. And I feel right now nobody can.
Publisher's hoard their money like Scrooge McDuck and are only going to invest into something if it promises profit.
We reached a point at which game graphics are nearly life like so it's time to look into stories, the telling of those and gameplay, isn't it?
But what kind of game hasn't been done to death? What story hasn't been told numerous times in changing tones and qualities?
And honestly I think that's where Sony, MS and Nintendo go wrong.
They still try to sell you new hardware. Now it's motion controls and 3D. What crap will they come up with once those are established or fail horribly? (I'm sitll hoping for them to fail)
Oh god look at me, going on a raint like I'm grandpa who tells you that back in the days everything was better.
Anyway what I'm trying to say is... I have no clue.
I don't know. It sometimes feels like people who love and play games have outgrown the industry.
We're becoming more mature much faster than the industry and therefore we (generalizations, not a good thing, I'll do it anyway) demand more from games. I'd love a game that gets me emotionally invested. Heavy Rain managed to do that - to a certain degree.
I want games where my decisions matter, I want to feel bad if a character gets killed off - and yes I wouldn't like it but I would accept if if characters got killed off. And I mean real fleshed out characters not like Mass Effect's "who's gonna die? Kaiden or Ashley?" which I couldn't have cared less about.
It's been a while so I can't fully remember but I think I felt a wee bit bad when my dog got killed in Fable 2.
If I care more about a dog than any other character in a game, I'm pretty sure there's something wrong and not necessarily with me.
tl;dr? Lemme summarize a bit:
Gaming is going to hell but this one's a hell of stale repetition.
Publisher's are stingy with their money because they want to maximize their profit.
This inhibts gaming as a whole.
Meanwhile console manufacterer's are still trying to sell you new tech that you neither want nor need (motion controls & 3D).
The industry needs to realize we want more than sequels.
And then there's a bit about what I think games should aim for. Read the last paragraph if you care.
/rant.
That felt suprisingly good although there's nothing in here that wasn't said before at some point in time.
| sabin1981 wrote: | Now you're just arguing semantics. Getting fucked in the ass with a broom stale is an "improvement" over getting stabbed in the eye with a fork  |
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W123
Posts: 2422
Location: USA
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| Posted: Tue, 14th Jun 2011 03:59 Post subject: |
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He lost me at Wii bowling
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| Posted: Tue, 14th Jun 2011 04:17 Post subject: |
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George Broussard comments:
| Quote: | | I think that most people agree that shooters have stagnated, though. I'm still annoyed Bulletstorm didn't get the love it deserved. |
| Quote: | | But yes, the reality is that what sells, sells, and the Cracked article is a little idealistic. But well written |
| Quote: | | They are fundamentally right in terms of motion control/Kinect. And shooter generic-ness. Also not a fan of service gaming. |
TWIN PEAKS is "something of a miracle."
"...like nothing else on television."
"a phenomenon."
"A tangled tale of sex, violence, power, junk food..."
"Like Nothing On Earth"
~ WHAT THEY'RE TRYING TO SAY CAN ONLY BE SEEN ~
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CHTUOgYNRzY
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| Posted: Tue, 14th Jun 2011 04:20 Post subject: |
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Last edited by Interinactive on Tue, 5th Oct 2021 04:58; edited 1 time in total
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