The big hardware post!
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Werelds
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PostPosted: Wed, 4th Aug 2010 14:03    Post subject: The big hardware post!
Since there's so many "WHAT DO I BUY PLZ HALP" threads, I figured it might be handy to keep a list for recommended hardware, at least for the core components. Also saves some of us the effort of constantly typing out the same shit, over and over

I've used the same post on two private forums where we've got similar discussions to here, so this is mostly a copy/paste from there Very Happy

I'll try to keep this list updated as new stuff comes out, but I won't be just looking at performance. Those who have seen my posts in this particular section of da hump know I'm a big supporter of efficiency over raw power. That goes for CPUs, GPUs and PSUs in particular. It also very much depends on what your goals are, and when it comes to gaming, what resolution you will be using, etcetera.

If you've got any suggestions, just post them here or PM me! I'll try to include as many links as I can to back some of my statements up, because I know some people here are not going to agree Wink


CPU
 Spoiler:
 


PSU
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GPU
 Spoiler:
 


Gaming recommendations, by resolution (read the above first!)
 Spoiler:
 



Changelog
[2010-08-06] Added reading material for CPU and PSU, reworded a few bits here and there as well
[2010-08-16] Added formatting, some more links, reworded a few bits
[2010-08-18] Added another link under PSU and GPU, and an example under PSU
[2010-09-10] Rewrote the PSU section to give some actual numbers and examples for anyone still not convinced about 80+ ratings and required wattage.
[2010-12-18] Long time no update, 'tis a big'un!
- Changed CPU section slightly to reflect the 920's EOL status, didn't change anything else as the 1100T still doesn't match Intel.
- Rewrote most of the GPU section, shit is weird right now Very Happy
[2012-05-12] Again long time no update, 'tis a big'un! Very Happy
- CPU, GPU and recommendations updated - PSU section is unaltered.


Last edited by Werelds on Sat, 12th May 2012 17:53; edited 15 times in total
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Werelds
Special Little Man



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PostPosted: Wed, 4th Aug 2010 14:04    Post subject:
Soundcard
 Spoiler:
 



Motherboard
 Spoiler:
 



RAM
 Spoiler:
 



Hard Disk Drives (HDD) / Solid State Drives (SSD)
 Spoiler:
 



Cases and Cooling
 Spoiler:
 



Changelog
[2010-08-06] Added reading material for mobo and RAM, reworded a few bits and bobs, and added a small note about the 'sweet spot' for RAM.
[2010-08-16] Added formatting, some more links, reworded a few bits
[2010-08-23] Second [H] PCI-E scaling link added at the motherboard section
[2010-12-18] Added a little bit about SSD's
[2012-05-12] SSD section updated slightly

Suggestions are welcome!


Last edited by Werelds on Sat, 12th May 2012 17:57; edited 13 times in total
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sabin1981
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PostPosted: Wed, 4th Aug 2010 14:07    Post subject:
I vote for sticky! And more contributions!
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ixigia
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PostPosted: Wed, 4th Aug 2010 14:11    Post subject:
sabin1981 wrote:
I vote for sticky! And more contributions!

This!
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PumpAction
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PostPosted: Wed, 4th Aug 2010 14:39    Post subject:
RAM recommendations?
Hard drive?
You are talking about cases. Which ones would you say are good, what do you need to look at specifically?

Besides that: Nice post! Keep extending it Smile


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Werelds
Special Little Man



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PostPosted: Wed, 4th Aug 2010 15:09    Post subject:
Yeah I'm working on those sections slowly, trying to find some of the good articles I've read over the years to back some of my statements up

Think I'll use my reply to do those pieces of hardware, as those are fairly straight forward and easy Smile

Thanks for the support btw guise <3
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dingo_d
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PostPosted: Wed, 4th Aug 2010 15:33    Post subject:
Wow... great job ^^


"Quantum mechanics is actually, contrary to it's reputation, unbeliveably simple, once you take the physics out."
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thats true you know. newton didnt discover gravity. the apple told him about it, and then he killed it. the core was never found.

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Breezer_




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PostPosted: Wed, 4th Aug 2010 15:35    Post subject:
Great post pwerelds! Smile
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LeoNatan
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PostPosted: Wed, 4th Aug 2010 15:38    Post subject:
Fantastic post! Very Happy
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Paintface




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PostPosted: Wed, 4th Aug 2010 15:48    Post subject:
considering memory for AMD cpus its all about the lower latency compared to the higher mhz , for example cas 7 1333 ram outperformans cas 8 1600, read a good article about it.... trying to find it for you.
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PumpAction
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PostPosted: Wed, 4th Aug 2010 15:58    Post subject:
BTW I would ditch this part:
- Up to 1680x1050: Get a dual-core CPU ...
- 1920x1080/1920x1200: Get a quad core

As you stated in your CPU post:
A dual core (above 2x3GHz) is sufficient for >80% of the games. Some times you might get higher performance with a triple core and in <5% you'll experience a gain with a quad core CPU.

For gaming, surfing / entertainment just go with a fast (overclocked)triple core AMD or a Core2Duo.


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PumpAction
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PostPosted: Wed, 4th Aug 2010 15:59    Post subject:
Paintface wrote:
considering memory for AMD cpus its all about the lower latency compared to the higher mhz , for example cas 7 1333 ram outperformans cas 8 1600, read a good article about it.... trying to find it for you.


Sounds interesting but why is that AMD specific? And what if you are planning on overclocking, isn't that the whole reason why 1600+ RAM modules exist?


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tonizito




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PostPosted: Wed, 4th Aug 2010 16:13    Post subject:
www.gpureview.com has a pretty good review database and comparison tool. Wink


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i guess thouth if without a legit key the installation was rolling back we are all fucking then
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Werelds
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PostPosted: Wed, 4th Aug 2010 16:18    Post subject:
PumpAction wrote:
BTW I would ditch this part:
- Up to 1680x1050: Get a dual-core CPU ...
- 1920x1080/1920x1200: Get a quad core

As you stated in your CPU post:
A dual core (above 2x3GHz) is sufficient for >80% of the games. Some times you might get higher performance with a triple core and in <5% you'll experience a gain with a quad core CPU.

It really depends on the engine. The console ports which are based off old UE3 builds don't care, but Dunia/Source/CryEngine 2 make better use of these by spreading the load a bit more. Also a game like SC2 likes more cores, so going for a quadcore ensures you'll be fine for the coming 2 years without problems. The added cost is relatively low Smile

I'll make a note though, because a dualcore is indeed still fine, especially when overclocked to near 4GHz Smile

@ Paintface: I'm writing a bit about memory right now, but in essence it really doesn't matter jackshit. Timings are hardly noticeable, I've read several articles over the years. The only one I could quickly find was this one, but there was another one with both Intel and AMD CPUs compared late last year. I'll be damned if I could remember where I read it though :/
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LeoNatan
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PostPosted: Wed, 4th Aug 2010 16:19    Post subject:
PumpAction wrote:
BTW I would ditch this part:
- Up to 1680x1050: Get a dual-core CPU ...
- 1920x1080/1920x1200: Get a quad core

As you stated in your CPU post:
A dual core (above 2x3GHz) is sufficient for >80% of the games. Some times you might get higher performance with a triple core and in <5% you'll experience a gain with a quad core CPU.

For gaming, surfing / entertainment just go with a fast (overclocked)triple core AMD or a Core2Duo.

Well, having recently upgraded my CPU from a Core 2 Duo E6600 (OC to 3.3GHz) to an i7 930 (stock, 2.8GHz, for now), from my experience I have to disagree completely with the quoted statement. I'd go as far as say even for a 1680x1050 resolution this is not the case that a C2D is enough. I upgraded my card before upgrading my CPU, so I had a chance to experience the benefits of the CPU upgrade first hand, and I felt improvements in most tests - Dawn of War 2, SHIFT, Crysis, GTA4 (this is expected), Bad Company 2, Metro 2033, Cryostasis, etc. In most cases, the jump in performance was so significant, it was like I have replaced my GPU once again when replacing the CPU!
I addition to the extra cores, which are not always used properly in games, PCIe performance itself is improved, as well as other factors, which in turn allow the GPU to breathe a lot more. C2D is just too much of a bottleneck, especially with the new nVidia/AMD cards.

Now, perhaps an "upgrade" to an i3 or an i5 dual core from an old C2D would show a similar performance enhancement, or at least in the same general direction of improvement, but in no way can a Core 2 Duo compete. This is from personal hands-on experience with my own hardware, not test figures from the internets.
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Breezer_




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PostPosted: Wed, 4th Aug 2010 16:26    Post subject:
There is no reason these days to get just dual core ._.
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Paintface




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PostPosted: Wed, 4th Aug 2010 16:31    Post subject:
PumpAction wrote:
Paintface wrote:
considering memory for AMD cpus its all about the lower latency compared to the higher mhz , for example cas 7 1333 ram outperformans cas 8 1600, read a good article about it.... trying to find it for you.


Sounds interesting but why is that AMD specific? And what if you are planning on overclocking, isn't that the whole reason why 1600+ RAM modules exist?


I got no experience with intel, but the top AMD models have unlocked multiplier so its all about the latency and being able to save money by buying the standard 1333 ram.
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sabin1981
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PostPosted: Wed, 4th Aug 2010 16:32    Post subject:
iNatan wrote:

Well, having recently upgraded my CPU from a Core 2 Duo E6600 (OC to 3.3GHz) to an i7 930 (stock, 2.8GHz, for now), from my experience I have to disagree completely with the quoted statement. I'd go as far as say even for a 1680x1050 resolution this is not the case that a C2D is enough.


Once again, I'm in complete agreement with Leo. Having used a, very highly clocked, dual-core for the last couple of years; I can safely say that even at 1680, a DC just isn't always enough. Not even when paired with a relatively "ok" card. Having had the joy of trying out games with a nice (3.4Ghz+) quad, I absolutely saw the performance increases. Of course it's pretty hard-stroke-unfair to compare a C2D to an i7, even at stock speeds, since the i7 does vastly more per cycle than any C2D.. regardless of clock frequencies.

My rig is suffering pretty badly lately with new games, even at 1680, and it's not really a slouch either. E7200@3.7Ghz paired with wicked fast OCZ DDR2 and an OCed 4870-1GB.

My next upgrade is *definitely* (and I've spent a lot of time lately, RE: our recent conversations in the upgrade threads, checking out alternatives with cost/performance ratios) going to be a Phenom II BE. I was always aiming for an i5, but the cost/performance just doesn't match up... because I'll be damned if I'm buying cheapo RAM or motherboard to pair it with. As long as I can hit 3.7 or 3.8 Ghz on the Phenom, I see no reason why a C2D would still be a viable choice, even paired with great GPUs.

iNatan wrote:

Now, perhaps an "upgrade" to an i3 or an i5 dual core from an old C2D would show a similar performance enhancement


Isn't the i3 just a rebranded C2D, anyhow? :\
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LeoNatan
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PostPosted: Wed, 4th Aug 2010 16:36    Post subject:
Not sure about the i3, but the dual core i5s are not merely a rebrand, and will probably offer a very nice performance increase when compare to C2D. C2D is just a very old architecture at this point, so this is to be expected. This is probably true about a C2 Quad as well, so the dual core is not to be blamed entirely. God knows (Laughing) that I love the C2D architecture, it was amazing back when it came out - hell it was the one that finally brought Intel back on the map after the P4/PD/Core fiascos - but it's time to move on. Smile
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sabin1981
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PostPosted: Wed, 4th Aug 2010 16:39    Post subject:
Aye, same. I've *loved* my trusty E7200. Kept me gaming happily for the last couple years, but yeah... tired architecture and it's time to move on. Just wish the price of an i5+MB+RAM matched the performance offered over AM3/Phenom II. I honestly would prefer an i5, but it's just too damned expensive for the triple-part kit. Hell I could probably save myself some cash and get an AM2+ board and use my current OCZ Platinum DDR2 with the Phenom! Sure as hell couldn't do that with i5 and, due to the silicon shortage, RAM is expensive these days Sad
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LeoNatan
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PostPosted: Wed, 4th Aug 2010 16:40    Post subject:
Yeah, after checking this:
http://techreport.com/articles.x/18216

It indeed seems the i3 is horrible while the i5 dual core comes well on the high end spectrum of performance (for a dual core).
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sabin1981
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PostPosted: Wed, 4th Aug 2010 16:41    Post subject:
Blegh.. thought so Sad

-edit-

Oooh, nice to see the i3 and i5-DC have 4 threads though, that's gonna be pretty good for MT apps.


Last edited by sabin1981 on Wed, 4th Aug 2010 16:42; edited 1 time in total
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PumpAction
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PostPosted: Wed, 4th Aug 2010 16:41    Post subject:
The performance loss from 1680x1080 to 1920x1200 will be the same on both, C2D and I5/I7, because it's the graphics card which handles that stuff. Except the game engine is adding more geometry detail because of the higher resolution...


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LeoNatan
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PostPosted: Wed, 4th Aug 2010 16:46    Post subject:
sabin1981 wrote:
Blegh.. thought so Sad

-edit-

Oooh, nice to see the i3 and i5-DC have 4 threads though, that's gonna be pretty good for MT apps.

Interestingly, the dual core i5 comes on top of the AMD CPUs and even the i7 920 in some cases... Laughing Just shows you how pathetic the multi-core optimization in gaming is.

So yeah, buying an i5 dual core is a good recommendation, but sticking with a C2D is just not recommended. Smile
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sabin1981
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PostPosted: Wed, 4th Aug 2010 16:48    Post subject:
Aye, that pretty much sums it up. It doesn't hurt to buy into the quad hype, which will help future-proof yourself and - in some cases - net a pretty tasty performance increase, whereas it doesn't help sticking with C2D. Looks like the i5-DC is just a stripped down i5-750 .. and we've already seen how ludicrously powerful that little thing is. I think Intel pretty much kicked themselves in the ass when they released the i5, because they cannibalised the shit out of their own i7 sales Laughing
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LeoNatan
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PostPosted: Wed, 4th Aug 2010 16:50    Post subject:
Well, they did the same with the 920/930 as well. I really don't know who in their right mind would buy one of the higher end models when you can get one of these and overclock to higher numbers than the more expensive models. Very Happy

But as for i5/i7, the i7s have hyperthreading which is a very nice performance increase in apps that are well written (like image processing, video encoding etc), so the strength of i7 comes mostly from there. Wink
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sabin1981
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PostPosted: Wed, 4th Aug 2010 16:52    Post subject:
Exactly! WTF? Stuff like that will forever be a source of perpetual confusion to me. The 920 and 930 are *identical* yet one is clocked 144Mhz higher by stock, yet costs what? £100++ more? Urgh, people are dumb.
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LeoNatan
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PostPosted: Wed, 4th Aug 2010 16:52    Post subject:
Hmm, 930 is the replacement of 920 and actually cost ~ the same... Confused I think you mixed up the models. Laughing I meant the higher models than 920/930.
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sabin1981
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PostPosted: Wed, 4th Aug 2010 16:56    Post subject:
Sad I've not checked the prices in a while, but when the i7-930 was first launched it was considerably more expensive than the 920 Scratch Head However! I did get your point and agree with it completely.

i7-930 - 2.8Ghz: £220.
i7-960 - 3.2Ghz: £452.

LOLWUT

---edit---

Argh. Ok, sod it. I may as well just stick with Intel. Just priced up a new set and it only came to 400kr more expensive than the AMD one.

Phenom II-945 + Asus M4N98TD-EVO + OCZ Platinum DDR3/1600 = 3600kr (£365)
Core i5-750 + Gigabyte GA-P55A-UD4 + Kingston HyperX DDR3/1600 (rated VERY highly, apparently) = 4000kr (£405)
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LeoNatan
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PostPosted: Wed, 4th Aug 2010 17:07    Post subject:
That's exactly what I mean! Laughing It's crazy! And most people who buy these kinds of processors know how to touch some values to get a proper OC ffs! Razz

Say Sabin, in light of the flattering dual core i5 results, why not just upgrade to that (with a new motherboard and RAM of course)? Then after a while you can replace the CPU when quad core does matter in more than a handful of games?
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