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Baleur
Posts: 2343
Location: South Sweden
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 Posted: Sun, 10th Jul 2005 03:56 Post subject: Baleur's toughs, issue #2 - The zerg resource syndrome |
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I like to write down my pointless toughts, my self-contained arguements i have with myself to proove myself right or wrong  
And i like to do it in this forum because this is the best gaming forum in my opinion.
Anyways last time i wrote a whole essay on why RTS were better before.
And since its about to become dated and useless with the arrival of Earth 2160 (omfg), Supreme Commander (omfg x3) and Rise of Legends etc, here is another one also on the RTS genre.. 
So whats on my odd mind tonight?? um well... resources!
Its another thing that makes or breaks a game, i mean.. come on, look at (i know alot of you will disagree) warcraft or starcraft, amazing games, BuT, twice the resource ammount would make it even better.
But thats just because i like huge long never ending wars, kinda like in Dawn Of War, thats why i like that so much, infinite resources.
Just when you have built up your Zerg base or whatever, you have everything going so friggen good, solid defences nothing can get past, and stuff are being researched, you decide on who to attack first, and you start to plan and build your army.
But then! When you have only half the force you were hoping for, you hear a funny happy thing. VESPENE GAS DEPLETED!!1
omg.... i hate it. So then you have to use that half force you just built, with not nearly all the researches you wanted, and you gotta spread em out to discover a resource spot with stuff still left and take it over, ending with half of that half force being left.
Not to mention that every single defensive structure that you have built in your main base is completely useless now, 100% waste of those precious resources since you will now be focusing on the frontline, not the old main base with no resources.
Get my point? You spend so much trouble on finding resources, and when they are all gone, the money you spent defending them are thrown away.
Lol, no there is no real point to this post, its just a tought ;D  
And wait! Just look at Total Annihilation, oh my god. What would that game be with finite resources? Nothing i tell you!!!! nothing!!!!!oneeleven11
Why?? because then the entire game would just be YET ANOTHER race to the resources. NOT the action game it is today, where when you have a frontline, and a rock solid defence wall of towers and shit carefully placed out, the enemy HAS to find a way trough it, instead of just waiting for you to run out of resources.
Thats what i love about TA, no matter what, you always have a chanse.
Its not like starcraft (but its amazing dont get me wrong), where if you were pinned into a corner of the map, the resources would deplete and then there would be absolutely no way for you to turn the tide, never ever!
Infinite = Great
CPU: Intel Core 2 Duo E6600 RAM: 4gb Kingmax DDR2 800mhz Video: Asus GeForce 250GTS 1gb Sound: Asus Xonar.
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Lutzifer
Modzilla
Posts: 12740
Location: ____________________ **** vegan zombie **** GRRAAIIINNSS _______
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| Posted: Sun, 10th Jul 2005 04:37 Post subject: |
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i feel with you. Its the same thing that haunts me when i play rts games and has made me go back to more and more fps gaming or rpgs...
infinite resoucres = great indeed !!!!!!!!oneoneeleven11
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javlar
Posts: 1921
Location: Kalmar, Sweden
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| Posted: Sun, 10th Jul 2005 08:58 Post subject: |
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It's all about preferences i guess, some people like the faster paced finite-game-type while some like the slower build-up-infinite-type. 
I am, as yourself, the second type.
Gaming - Intel Quad Q9450 @ 3.2GHZ | Radeon HD 4870 X2 2GB | SB X-Fi | PC6400 8GB | 300GB Velociraptor
HTPC - Antec Fusion Remote | AMD Athlon 7850 X2 | PC6400 2GB | 74GB Raptor
Server - Athlon 64 X2 4200+ | Radeon HD 3450 | SB X-Fi | PC5300 2GB | 4TB+ total space
XBOX360 Gamertag: javlarmate
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Phluxed
VIP Member
Posts: 4911
Location: Oakville, Ontario, Canada
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| Posted: Sun, 10th Jul 2005 09:00 Post subject: |
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Resource management is an important aspect of the RTS genre. A well balanced game played by an intelligent person should always be low on resources, because they should always have things on the go, IE Warcraft. The best players I've ever seen in replays never go above 300 gold.
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Baleur
Posts: 2343
Location: South Sweden
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| Posted: Sun, 10th Jul 2005 13:54 Post subject: |
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Robots ROCK!!!!! are you telling me you dont like Total Annihilation? :O:O
CPU: Intel Core 2 Duo E6600 RAM: 4gb Kingmax DDR2 800mhz Video: Asus GeForce 250GTS 1gb Sound: Asus Xonar.
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drakgon
Posts: 1167
Location: England
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| Posted: Sun, 10th Jul 2005 14:44 Post subject: |
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yep i agree totally i love the long never ending masive battle wars.
i remember making maps in red alert where all non base building terain had crystals on it so money was close to infinate and you never needed more and i never had more fun in an rts. it was like streems of men and tanks against streams of men and tanks. litteraly a non stop battle it was the only time i enjoyed playing with computer ai on red alert.
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Baleur
Posts: 2343
Location: South Sweden
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| Posted: Sun, 10th Jul 2005 15:58 Post subject: |
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| CLDragon wrote: | usualy when u gas deplets in SC it means
1. you didn't plan ahead
2. your screwed if u dont find another oen
i actualy like having gas deplete because it makes the players have to fight over resource, and those new players who doesn't know about that (i.e. camp in a corner) will be at a huge disadvatage.
however if u want "unlimited recourse" in SC just play one of those "Fastest map EVER" maps lol, they are awsome, but takes away some strategy from the game. |
Well i agree, even tough it contradicts (wow i LOVE using smart words!!1) my own topic.
Some kind of lack of something, to force players out, is nessescary (so sue me).
For example in TA that is the simple fact that the more resource spots you control, the faster you get resources hence the more stuff you can pump out at once.
In SC its the simple fact that you dont want to run dry.
And in E2160 it is the almost just right way that the initial resources are very plentiful, but eventually runs out. (which i like alot, plenty of resources BUT they do end sometime)
CPU: Intel Core 2 Duo E6600 RAM: 4gb Kingmax DDR2 800mhz Video: Asus GeForce 250GTS 1gb Sound: Asus Xonar.
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| Posted: Sun, 10th Jul 2005 19:24 Post subject: |
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I hate it when players can turtle (i.e. build up a massive base in a corner and never come out) it's so boring and tedious. It's alot better when they will eventually run out of resources and the player who was smart and expanded can eventually defeat them because they have more resources.
"Techniclly speaking, Beta-Manboi didnt inject Burberry_Massi with Benz, he injected him with liquid that had air bubbles in it, which caused benz." - House M.D
"Faith without logic is the same as knowledge without understanding; meaningless"
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Lutzifer
Modzilla
Posts: 12740
Location: ____________________ **** vegan zombie **** GRRAAIIINNSS _______
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| Posted: Sun, 10th Jul 2005 19:37 Post subject: |
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| AnimalMother wrote: | | I hate it when players can turtle (i.e. build up a massive base in a corner and never come out) it's so boring and tedious. It's alot better when they will eventually run out of resources and the player who was smart and expanded can eventually defeat them because they have more resources. |
i rather like the approach of unlimited resources but with speed gains in resource-harvesting. Like in Z for example. Awesome game and the fastest rts to date |
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| Posted: Sun, 10th Jul 2005 19:44 Post subject: |
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yea, most RTS games like SC has one golden rule:
the player with the most factories wins.
factories meaning building that makes units. this is why in SC zergs can swarm enemies alot faster since they build all units 3 at a time from the hive, wasting no resource building more factories like toss and terran.
this rule is based on the fact that both players has access to all the resource they need. this is why most experience players would exband and aquire as much resource as they can.
if everyone had unlimited resource right in a corner of the map, then they would just all pump out unites like a machine, making the normal 12vs12 to 60vs60, most likely with the same outcome, just giving the player the illusion that they have a massive army. instead, now, the player with more resource access will win because they can build more factories/units.
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