Weed vs Alcohol.. What is worse?
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sausje
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PostPosted: Tue, 12th Feb 2013 16:56    Post subject: Weed vs Alcohol.. What is worse?
Well i have been wanting such a topic for a long time now, so here it is.

What do you, personally, think is worse? Weed or Alcohol? And why do you think that? And what do you think should be done against it?


I personally find alcohol worse, pure due to the fact how people behave when they drink too much.
So far, i have never seen a single stoned person causing issues and problems that drunk people do tend to cause. And i'm talking about PURE stoned or PURE drunk, no combination of other shit included.

Plus the fact that alcohol can damage your body severely if used too much, with weed this isn't the case.

IMO, if they allow alcohol, they should make weed legal aswell and visa versa...


Now don't get me wrong, weed has downsides too. Because it is still illegal in many countries, the method behind getting it, is way more grim then with alcohol.
Plus mentally weak people can actually suffer from the effects aswell if not being carefull.


So again, what do you people think and why?


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Sin317
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PostPosted: Tue, 12th Feb 2013 17:12    Post subject:
i prefer alcohol. And don't mind those who smoke weed. We're all fine and dandy together.
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Aeon




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PostPosted: Tue, 12th Feb 2013 17:15    Post subject:
In short: both is bad imo. But it also have positive effects of course.


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fisk




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PostPosted: Tue, 12th Feb 2013 17:18    Post subject:
Weed fucks up your lungs.
alcohol fucks up your liver.

Weed mellows you out.
Alcohol makes you obnoxious and dumb (well most people).

People on weed act like they're slow and retarded.
People on alcohol act like they're dumb and retarded.

People who have smoked weed over long periods of time act as if they're slow, lazy and dumb.
People who have been drinking alcohol over long periods of time act normal (unless they become alcoholics).

Both can be addictive, and both may cause weak-minded fools to fuck up their lives.



Seems to me that this is a false dilemma, avoid both like the plague.


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ixigia
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PostPosted: Tue, 12th Feb 2013 17:21    Post subject:
As long as you ' consume' them very responsibly, they're both good Razz

But yeah, if you really have to exaggerate, alcohol is the one that has the worse collateral effects (both for the body and -especially- for the people around you)



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DXWarlock
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PostPosted: Tue, 12th Feb 2013 17:29    Post subject:
Id say im biased as both are bad in the wrong hands, legal or illegal.
Not on any moral standing I have for each, to each their own if you enjoy either.

I've never did either much at all, weed a few times when younger by 'eh..lets see what all the fuss is about', or drinking a few times a year if I go out...but neither is really my 'thing' I look to do.

But from a purely personal outlook, My wife was a major pothead when we got together, and a major drinker when she was a stripper (and coke head..but that's a whole other nightmare to explain Razz)
But both are things I much prefer her not on. Pot made her absent minded, a bit spacey, 'too' mellow and forgetful of important shit, a bit defensive of how 'not baked' she was.. etc etc. Not to mention the usual types it drew to our house. Not stereotyping pot smokers..But strippers seem to meet the worst types of people, add to that the worst type of people that ALSO do drugs...and well, they wasn't exactly people Id list as a reference on anything..lol

And well for the drinking... I'm sure we've all dealt with 2am smashed drunk women who think they aren't drunk, their shit don't stink, and your the asshole for pointing it out to them that they aren't 'fine' to drive home..lol

But like I said, my opinion is a bit skewed, shes got an addictive personality, and 'in moderation' isn't a concept she understands when it comes to things of that nature. its all or nothing.

So on the whole trying not to be biased, I say either is fine in moderation within responsible limits.
But the whole idea that to allow it for the responsible ones, also means the irresponsible ones get the rights also bothers me Razz


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farne




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PostPosted: Tue, 12th Feb 2013 17:33    Post subject:
There are plenty of illegal drugs out there that could be made legal if there was proper control on the consumption on each and every individual. Some of them even have medical benefits, like LSD cures cluster headaches, THC has proven to be effective against forms of cancer, some drugs may be applied to "scale down" an addiction to a stronger drug that is debilitating the body. Also, with legalized drugs criminal enterprises will have lost one way to accumulate quite a substantial amount of wealth.

And what does alcohol do? If you take too much of it, you're prone to act violent, you may not think twice on what you're saying. You'll feel like shit the morning after, there's those lovely memory gaps, and on top of that, you've most likely wasted a lot of money!
Just like drugs, alcohol is medicine when consumed, but poison when you've had far too much of it

I think the main issue at hand is that alcohol has become a far too innate part in our society, it dates back several millennia back. While drugs have been around for quite some time as well, they haven't had a foothold ( as in being easily available , such as in the Americas) in the cradle of western civilzation, Europe. I don't think companies that sell alcohol aren't too keen of having a more open mind about drugs, either. We should all be well aware of corporate lobbyism now. Smile
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tonizito
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PostPosted: Tue, 12th Feb 2013 17:34    Post subject:
Alcohol without a doubt, especially since it's an "allowed" drug.


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Ankh




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PostPosted: Tue, 12th Feb 2013 17:36    Post subject:
Both.


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WaldoJ
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PostPosted: Tue, 12th Feb 2013 17:43    Post subject:
It all depends on the company you consume both with.
It's a lot easier to peer pressure anyone who's under the influence of each.
You can have a bad bad bad bad bad high when you're all by your lonesome and you're depressed. You can also have a good high cause you can at times stop worrying about bull shit.

There are responsible pot smokers all over the place. and there are also asshole pot smokers all over the place.

Alcohol loosens your inhibitions more... but it can be both a good thing (going out and partying and having a good time when you're an introvert) and it can be a bad thing when someone says something rude to you and you find yourself in a bare knuckle punching contest where the use of bottles, shoes, belts is permitted.

If you're responsbile and have good friends both are good. if you're a dick... both are bad.

health wise... weed causes less awful shit on your lungs than cigarettes.
alcohol can and will fuck up your liver if you're irresponsible and an alcoholic.

Both can fuck up your life / reputation.
But one can kill you if you're an animal and don't know when to stop / don't want to stop.


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chiv




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PostPosted: Tue, 12th Feb 2013 17:46    Post subject:
both as bad as each other... though i will say this:

someone smokes IN MODERATION, they still effect everyone else around them, even if they want no part of it, they're still inhaling it.

someone drinks IN MODERATION, no one else is effected by it if they dont want to be..

so while in extremes theyre both as bad as each other, in a perfect environment where everyone behaved reasonably and responsibly with their intake, weed is worse because you're inflicting that shit on others.

but i guess thats more an observation of smokers themselves rather than the product...


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Guy_Incognito




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PostPosted: Tue, 12th Feb 2013 17:53    Post subject:
I hate the smell of weed, as well as smoke in general.
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fisk




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PostPosted: Tue, 12th Feb 2013 17:54    Post subject:
chiv wrote:
both as bad as each other... though i will say this:

someone smokes IN MODERATION, they still effect everyone else around them, even if they want no part of it, they're still inhaling it.

someone drinks IN MODERATION, no one else is effected by it if they dont want to be..


Well, physically you don't get affected by the drinkers.

But spending time with people who drink... I'd rather go to the dentist, srsly.


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chiv




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PostPosted: Tue, 12th Feb 2013 17:55    Post subject:
Guy_Incognito wrote:
I hate the smell of weed, as well as smoke in general.


so do i... thats one of the reasons i hate the idea of legalisation of weed... having to smell that shit every time youre walking through town or some shit... smokers generally tend to be pretty self centered when it comes to their smoking and dont give a fuck that others have to smell that shit...


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Frant
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PostPosted: Tue, 12th Feb 2013 17:57    Post subject:
Weed is much more cancerous than filtered cigarettes. The incineration without using filters cause a lot more crap down your lungs, often very hot smoke as well causing small blisters in the broncs. Vaporizer would be the safest way, a bong often only cools down the smoke, it doesn't filter it from pollutants. Classic pipes and hookahs just fill your lungs with 1000's of cancerous substances.

Long term use can have permanent effects on your short term memory and usually cause a dry mouth which will give you cavities. Can also cause paranoia if you go outside

Cannabis is known for it's anxiety-triggering effects, esp. the sativa strains. It's not the THC but the other substances in cannabis that is behind he anxiety triggering effects.

In rare cases, if you have latent psychosis/schizophrenia that may never have developed by themselves may be triggered and cause permanent mental illness. But that's rare.

Personally I don't like cannabis. When I was younger I ordered AAA quality stuff from canada coming in double vacuum bags in an envelope, tried a lot of various kinds, both indica and sativa, oils and some green pressed powder that had a kick to it. But all it did was make me very heavy and slow witted, as if I had a fever and wasn't particularly impressed by any of it even though they had somewhat different effects. Not my thing.


The risks of Alcohol basically depends on the amounts and how often you drink. Liver damage, physical damage to braincells, it can easily cause accidents, create aggressiveness, affect your liver to the point of life threatening , esp. if you use painkillers with paracetamol. If you hurt yourself you will bleed twice as much since the blood is much thinner. You can become intoxicated enough to stop breathing, or fall asleep and inhale your own puke (bon scott, jimi hendrix etc.).

Risk for addiction is high if you use it to self-medicate from anxiety or empty life. Also if you have the alcohol gene inherited from one of your parents or grandparents.

So be careful and don't overdo it, ie. be responsible for your own well being and never push anyone else to try/use more than he want to.

I drink 4-5 times a year when I feel for some beer or fine single malt whisky (talisker is a fave of mine). I usually sip the stuff. I don't do drinks.


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DXWarlock
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PostPosted: Tue, 12th Feb 2013 18:01    Post subject:
chiv wrote:
so do i... thats one of the reasons i hate the idea of legalisation of weed... having to smell that shit every time youre walking through town or some shit... smokers generally tend to be pretty self centered when it comes to their smoking and dont give a fuck that others have to smell that shit...


Yea thats one of my concerns too. I can only imagine the first few days its legalized. Not so much I care if people are doing it...more the asshats that will be out everywhere smoking it so people can see them, just for the fact they can. Since weed is one of the few 'drugs' people like bragging about doing to strangers.
For every one person at home enjoying a big joint, there will be one trying to find the best spot to stand outside the mall so other can see how 'cool' he is for being one of the ones that are exercising his new right Razz
Its like some pot heads are like 18 year olds when they first get cigarettes, but are like that their whole life..they like to make sure to be seen/known as smoking it, as much as they enjoy doing it.


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fisk




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PostPosted: Tue, 12th Feb 2013 18:01    Post subject:
chiv wrote:
so do i... thats one of the reasons i hate the idea of legalisation of weed... having to smell that shit every time youre walking through town or some shit... smokers generally tend to be pretty self centered when it comes to their smoking and dont give a fuck that others have to smell that shit...


The same thing goes for people who smoke tobacco, their sense of smell get totally fucked so bad they don't know how bad they smell.

My mother was a chain smoker for 30 years and then quit. Once she started getting her sense of smell back she was apalled with how bad the apt./her clothes/books/etc. smelt. I shit you not she spent a month cleaning up, buckets after buckets of yellow nicotine toxins from walls, paintings, etc - then she apologized to me and her spouse about how badly we must have been affected.

Doctor's say her lungs are debilitated but mostly OK, mine are fine though in spite of passive smoking since I was born. Guess I should consider myself lucky.


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DXWarlock
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PostPosted: Tue, 12th Feb 2013 18:04    Post subject:
Frant wrote:

Personally I don't like cannabis. When I was younger I ordered AAA quality stuff from canada coming in double vacuum bags in an envelope, tried a lot of various kinds, both indica and sativa, oils and some green pressed powder that had a kick to it. But all it did was make me very heavy and slow witted, as if I had a fever and wasn't particularly impressed by any of it even though they had somewhat different effects. Not my thing.

About the same here, the few times I tried it..it just made it hard to think or concentrate which annoyed the hell out of me, made me sleepy, and really hungry feeling for no reason.
I could stay up 3 days straight and not eat..and get the same exact feeling for free. Laughing


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Frant
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PostPosted: Tue, 12th Feb 2013 18:04    Post subject:
Passive smoking in bars is more dangerous than for the smokers themselves due to them getting the worst crap stuck in the filter while the rest inhale pure unfiltered cancerous particles. Thankfully it's forbidden to smoke in most bars and restaurants in Sweden afaik.


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deelix
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PostPosted: Tue, 12th Feb 2013 18:10    Post subject:
To be perfectly honest I don't like getting drunk anymore... I just take 2-3 beers. Its enough to have a decent time, and not get a hangover Smile

I do agree its kinda hard to stop at 3 beers, but the morning after is SO much better and worth it. Thats what I tell myself when I stop Very Happy. Iv only once this year gotten really drunk, and thats just because it was free lqr and 25 people there Very Happy
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chiv




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PostPosted: Tue, 12th Feb 2013 18:11    Post subject:
i dont actually care what effects weed or alcohol or smoking have on the individual.. if people want to fuck up their health, thats their business. i only care about what effects their choice has on others, whether its getting shit-drunk and then driving or attacking others, or if its spreading their shit through second hand smoke.

And only one of these happens at times when people are being irresponsible idiots, while the others happens every time.




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zipfero




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_SiN_
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PostPosted: Tue, 12th Feb 2013 19:15    Post subject:
Well, since you can't really die from cannabis itself, and dying from alcohol consumption isn't even hard, I consider weed to be the "safer" option in that regard.

And I would rather live in a neighborhood with 10 weed smokers, than in one with one real alcoholic.

And just like most people, I've seen all kinds of people drunk. I've been drunk many times myself. So it's safe to say, being almost 30 years old, one can say they know somewhat how people are when they are drunk - and I would also rather spend time with people being high on weed, than I would with a bunch of drunks.

Not to say you can't have a good time while drunk, you sure can, and most of the many times I've been, have been good. But then there's blackouts (in extreme cases, very rare), memory loss, hangovers, illness, saying/doing things you wouldn't do while sober etc. I can go on.
But I've never seen anyone or experienced the same thing with marijuana. Now, I'm extremely inexperienced with it, and don't use it regularly - actually, I've been high less than 10 times in my life - so compared to alcohol, I haven't seen nearly as much.

But I also more or less never drink nowadays, since like 4-5 years back. Not that I ever had any problem with it, it just wasn't fun anymore, absolutely hated being hung over, and hangovers got worse in the end before I stopped too. So I just said fuck it, why even bother. I still drink a little, 2-3 times a year, max, and I have fun and never overdo it, and I'm perfectly fine with that.

Also, there's no being hung over after weed, and you never stop being "you", as you can be with alcohol - meaning that many people really turn into someone else when they're drunk, either it's something small like talk a whole lot more, or just louder, or whatever, to being overly aggressive, or very emotional. With weed, Ive experienced that people are still themselves, though many laugh more than usual - which to me, is a very good thing Smile But no matter how much they smoke, they can still talk perfectly normal, walk and use all bodily functions or whatever. Also, I have always had problems with falling asleep, still do, but when high, I'm out like a light and sleep like a baby, which makes me a lot more energetic and well-rested the day after.

And I gotta say I prefer eating it, I don't like smoking at all and have only tried the odd ciggarette when younger, but I really don't like it. And eating it removes everything that has to do with smoking, makes the high come on much slower, but also lasts quite a bit longer, and it feels very good. And then it evens out as slowly as it comes on.

But anyway, this is now pretty damn offtopic, so I'll stop myself here, sorry


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Sin317
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PostPosted: Tue, 12th Feb 2013 19:19    Post subject:
there is a big difference between someone drinking alcohol among friends during the weekend somewhere or an alcoholic. Any dependency is bad, no matter the substance or habit.
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dingo_d
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PostPosted: Tue, 12th Feb 2013 19:31    Post subject:
sausje wrote:

Plus the fact that alcohol can damage your body severely if used too much, with weed this isn't the case.



And this is where you're wrong Wink

Sure, alcohol can damage your liver etc. But weed, especially if you smoke it since you were little (not you you, but you as in a person), can cause psychosis, and can severely affect your mental capabilities in the long run.

Sure stoners are 'cool' and 'mellow', but those who have been smoking for a long time, are like that because their brain is affected...

In the end, everything in excess is bad. Eating, drinking... If you drink in moderation, it can be beneficial to your health (red vine, even vodka like a shot a day's amount iirc). THC by itself has some good properties.
Plus it has been shown that weed can help you relieve pain if you have cancer for example.

I prefer alcohol to weed, but only because I hate the taste of smoke in my mouth. That aftertaste is what is not appealing for me.

All you need is moderation...


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thats true you know. newton didnt discover gravity. the apple told him about it, and then he killed it. the core was never found.

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DXWarlock
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PostPosted: Tue, 12th Feb 2013 19:34    Post subject:
_SiN_ wrote:

Also, there's no being hung over after weed, and you never stop being "you", as you can be with alcohol - meaning that many people really turn into someone else when they're drunk, either it's something small like talk a whole lot more, or just louder, or whatever, to being overly aggressive, or very emotional. With weed, Ive experienced that people are still themselves, though many laugh more than usual - which to me, is a very good thing Smile But no matter how much they smoke, they can still talk perfectly normal, walk and use all bodily functions or whatever. Also, I have always had problems with falling asleep, still do, but when high, I'm out like a light and sleep like a baby, which makes me a lot more energetic and well-rested the day after.


Not to snip and a part and reply.But I think its dependent on the person. Cant say the people I know are the same' person.usually its a slow retarded, absent minded, kinda ditsy version of themselves.
Like if someone made a clone of them, and glitched it, and out came the -30 IQ, simple minded, version of them.

Most the people I know that smoke weed, I cant stand to be around them when they are high, its like hanging out with a 7 year old with ADD. They think the simplest stuff if amazing, or funny, or interesting and don't pay attention to conversations once they think of some other 'stoned epiphany'.

To me the only difference between stoned people and drunk people when I see them on how they act..is drunk ones slur when they talk, stoned ones pause a lot when they talk. But they both have that mindset of "It took a while for this thought to form so it must be some amazing revelation that I got to share with others!"


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sausje
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PostPosted: Tue, 12th Feb 2013 19:39    Post subject:
DXWarlock wrote:
Pot made her absent minded, a bit spacey, 'too' mellow and forgetful of important shit, a bit defensive of how 'not baked' she was.. etc etc.


Yeah those kinda things are abit of a downside on it, hence that when i smoke, i limit myself to only smoke AFTER 20:00, so it won't affect my daily time.

WaldoJ wrote:
It all depends on the company you consume both with.
It's a lot easier to peer pressure anyone who's under the influence of each.
You can have a bad bad bad bad bad high when you're all by your lonesome and you're depressed. You can also have a good high cause you can at times stop worrying about bull shit.

There are responsible pot smokers all over the place. and there are also asshole pot smokers all over the place.


Well that's why i only smoke when surrounded by friends, when i smoke alone, i start to think. And that usually results in bad thoughts that keep on going and going and going.
When it came to the point that i had nothing but those bad thoughts when i smoked, i quitted for almost a year, untill i was safe that i wouldn't get addicted and it wouldn't be the downfall of me, mentally.

But could you give me an example of asshole pot smokers? So far, i have yet to see someone who ONLY smoked weed, to cause issues as drunk people tend to do. Neutral


Frant wrote:
Weed is much more cancerous than filtered cigarettes. The incineration without using filters cause a lot more crap down your lungs, often very hot smoke as well causing small blisters in the broncs. Vaporizer would be the safest way, a bong often only cools down the smoke, it doesn't filter it from pollutants. Classic pipes and hookahs just fill your lungs with 1000's of cancerous substances.

Long term use can have permanent effects on your short term memory and usually cause a dry mouth which will give you cavities. Can also cause paranoia if you go outside

Cannabis is known for it's anxiety-triggering effects, esp. the sativa strains. It's not the THC but the other substances in cannabis that is behind he anxiety triggering effects.

In rare cases, if you have latent psychosis/schizophrenia that may never have developed by themselves may be triggered and cause permanent mental illness. But that's rare.


Well, concidering i smoke shag only, for me personally it wouldn't be much more worse then regular smoking.
The effect of bad short-term memory is defo something i have, and it gets worse by the year. But this is not only due to weed, i presume my hyperactivity in my brain has something to do with that aswell.

The paranoia on the other hand is something i don't have, when i smoke weed, i feel more relaxed and can finally put my mind at ease. With my hyperactive brain, i have NONSTOP thoughts going thru my mind. Sometimes up to 10-20 at the same time, causing me to not get tired and fall asleep. With weed, these thoughts are being put aside and i have finally a clear mind.
Because of this, i'm trying to get it via my doctor. But there hasn't been a single test with weed to see if it does indeed work for people that have ADHD... Costs too much €€ to do according to him..


dingo_d wrote:
sausje wrote:

Plus the fact that alcohol can damage your body severely if used too much, with weed this isn't the case.



And this is where you're wrong Wink

Sure, alcohol can damage your liver etc. But weed, especially if you smoke it since you were little (not you you, but you as in a person), can cause psychosis, and can severely affect your mental capabilities in the long run.

Sure stoners are 'cool' and 'mellow', but those who have been smoking for a long time, are like that because their brain is affected...


Well that fully depends, i have yet to see a person die or go completely insane from just weed usage.
Plus the only real thing that gets "damaged" is the short-term memory, the other thing is just related to how strong minded you are.
I have smoked weed for almost 14 years now and the only side effect so far is my bad short-term memory...

As for drinking, i only drink once per 2 years or so, and even a little. 1 glass of beer can already make me drunk grinhurt




Anyway, the reason i made this topic was because i get constantly judged (not only here on the forums btw) for my (once a month a weekend) weed smoking, by people that consume atleast 5/6 beers every evening after work...
In my eyes, they are doing the same (if not worse, because it's more then i do) but since it's legal it's ok in their eyes...


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DXWarlock
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PostPosted: Tue, 12th Feb 2013 20:09    Post subject:
Its not the legality or illegality of it. Its the very fact that being judged people feel they need to defend it for some reason.

I smoke 2 packs a day. If someone judges me, so be it. I know its bad, I know what I choose to do..I have no urge or sense of needing to defend it as if its something I'm ashamed of. Someone points out how dumb smoking is, I will agree with them tell them they are totally right. And I have no reason to try to justify it to them.

But on the other hand, I don't go around dropping hint to people that I smoke 2 packs a day in an attempt to 'fit in' or give that 'I'm cool man..I'm down its ok" type of status gauge like some do with weed (Not you but I know a lot that do, its usually the vibe I get when someone mentions they smoke weed, and I say I could care less...its like I insulted them by not going "that is so kick ass dude! weed on my brother!").

I mean smoke all you want, hell bake yourself into a dazed stupor for 15 hours, that's your life Razz
But if you (as in them not you) come to me bragging about your weed schedule, hoping that I think your a cooler dude for it, then yes..expect me to point out how much of an idiot you are for doing it. If you wave your dirty laundry at me, don't get upset I point out the stains.
To me someone subtly dropping hints, or outright just talking about their weed consumption is no better than someone doing the same if it was meth, or cigarettes, or crack, or Drano, or 12 pack of beer a day..

I mean its a personal habit/addiction(mental not physical usually), why share it with others? No one brags about a crack habit, or a meth binge, Why would the fact you smoke weed even need to come up? Unless you are planning on sharing weed with them in the first place? Razz

I just feel even worse about them if they want to defend their choices they make.
You know that whole "I want you to condone it, not just accept it".
Like its a issue of them wanting to make sure everyone has a 'stamp of approval' that weed is kick ass to do..before they drop the subject.

So sausje, smoke all the weed you want and enjoy it. Someone being hypocritical about their drug of choice just because its legal shouldn't bother you. A hypocrite isn't someone you need to waste time justifying your own vice to anyway.


-We don't control what happens to us in life, but we control how we respond to what happens in life.
-Hard times create strong men, strong men create good times, good times create weak men, and weak men create hard times. -G. Michael Hopf

Disclaimer: Post made by me are of my own creation. A delusional mind relayed in text form.
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sausje
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Posts: 17716
Location: Limboland, Netherlands
PostPosted: Tue, 12th Feb 2013 20:31    Post subject:
Oh no, it's not about fitting it, it's my family who thinks that way.
I'm trying to explain to them, that because of my ADHD and autism, weed actually helps better then ANY other medicine..
Yet my stephdad judges me on it, while he drinks every day.
And my mom wants me to take Ritaline (wich contains Amphetamine, aka speed).
I have tried to explain her over and over how Ritaline causes me to not eat, sleep and sit there like a zombie. It does work with calming my mind tho.
But weed does exactly the same, except without those nasty side effects..

Plus the fact is that, due to my financial state, i can only smoke it on rare occasions...
So it's basically like someone that doesn't drink every time he/she gets home from work, but does go out once a month and drinks some beers with his/her friends...


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