I fail to see where women are excluded from gaming, so that's a bit moot point, but as far as the 'trolling' goes, well it was actually an all open attack on her, I think that is awful.
But am I surprised? Sadly no. We've all seen the 'dark side of the internet', we all know what happens when sad and weak individuals hide behind the anonymity of the internet.
It's shameful, but it's life :\
"Quantum mechanics is actually, contrary to it's reputation, unbeliveably simple, once you take the physics out."
Scott Aaronson
chiv wrote:
thats true you know. newton didnt discover gravity. the apple told him about it, and then he killed it. the core was never found.
Because it's needed since there's a ridiculous amount of cowardly teens and young adults hiding behind anonymity spreading misogyny and hatred towards girls and women on the net. You don't need to be a feminist to realise misogyny is something that must be dealt with.
If you're actually referring to the actual title TEDxWomen it's to put the spotlight on that it's about women.
She still doesn't seem to realize the fact that the reason most games are designed towards males in general is because of the simple fact that the huge majority of gamers (And designers) are males. That is where the money and market is. Female gamers are an incredibly small part of that. To also suggest that companies/developers go out of their way with some sort of campaign to put down females is just inept.
The best part is that she doesn't 'get' why people attacked her, and I doubt she ever will. She's been made a martyr now though, and will continue giving speeches like this to continue to push her campaign of 'fair' treatment. By 'fair' I mean equal-opportunity style treatment which just continues the culture of discrimination.
Last edited by Mchart on Wed, 23rd Jan 2013 10:05; edited 1 time in total
No, I am, through the replies to the original post and the subject in general. It's easy to see what people think about misogyny and anonymous attacks against women. You claim she's an idiot, I think 95% of what she says is spot on and what happened to her is a dire sign of how many cowardly lowlifes filled with hatred against women there are on the internet. The shield of anonymity remove any filters for these people and they can spew their sick crap.
So all in all she makes a very interesting case of that. That the gaming industry is sexist is nothing new, the target group is after all teens with rushing hormones, and characters with oversized boobs on the cover obviously sell well. But that's not really the main point in her presentation.
Isn't the attack on her based on the fact that she pulled off a scam on kickstarter?
And not the fact that she was going to made a series of YT videos. (Which she didn't made (except probably one) and by doing so she didn't fulfil her KS obligation?)
Her main point was to show how hostile the predominantly male gamer population is towards women, and it is. But it's a very small but vocal minority that actually oposses women in gaming.
My problem is that she's taking the assault on her as evidence that the entire gaming community wants to scare and intimidate women out of gaming. Which is ridiculous.
The personal attacks against her were viscious and unjustified, there's no excuse for them.
But it's my understanding that most of the comments revolved around her not meeting her kickstarter goals,and not communicating with her supporters.
Edit: ninjad by VonMisk, stupid phone
1. The supposed "attack" was because ALL OF HER VIDEOS had comments disabled and she left the one video open to comments which was almost immediately spammed by 4chan.
How can you be mad or offended that there's no proper discussion under your videos if you DON'T ALLOW IT.
2. She lost all her credibility with this video, which was removed from her channel because it was massively voted down, it's clear that she never played the game she's talking about.
3. Her kickstarter project is a fraud, and it was proven over and over again.
4. Even if her KS project turns out NOT to be a fraud and she will finally release a video after more than 7+ months of delay, there are ALREADY people who did those kind of videos better and FOR FREE. AND THEY ARE MADE BY A MAN. Like this:
5. The sexism in videogames and industry is a moot point and a cop out.
Inb4 I'm called a misogynist, these are not my words.
The "attack" on her has nothing to do with her being a woman as well.
Imagine if AVGN, Noah Antwiler or the Nostalgia Critic went out and did a Kickstarter so that they can do reviews on games... They would be called cash-grabbing faggots within a nanosecond, and not without reason.
It's easy to cry sexism, but the fact of the matter is, the comments like "go back to the kitchen" or "gimme a sandwich" are harmless and worthless.
The rape threats are there because she's a woman, with that I agree, but that comes with the anonymity of the Internet. Hell, Robert Bowling (ex-PR for Activision and its Modern Warfare 2) was constantly dealing with DEATH THREATS, people found out his address and were harassing him constantly. And for some reason he didn't need to make a Kickstarter.
The very first death threat I got was when we decided not to support dedicated servers in Modern Warfare 2
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"What I had to learn very early, is: ‘Alright, don't take this stuff personally," Bowling said. "They're clearly someone who is passionate. They are just very poor at expressing that passion. And if you look past that, you don't take it too seriously."
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"We received at least three death threats to producers saying things like ‘you don't deserve to live after this mess' and ‘we know your home address is XXX'," Paradox CDEO Fred Wester told me. "We chose not to report any of these to the police, but it sure is unpleasant."
Oh gee, poor Anita, she was ordered to make a sandwich! Surely this is ten times worse because she's a woman, the death threats are nothing compared to that!
No, but I happen to agree that there's so much sexism but more importantly pure misogyny around the internet from people hiding behind anonymity. When I posted that video it wasn't because of females not getting into gaming, it was because of the pure hatred against her and many other women that even bring up the point to discussion, and it seems many many males become defensive which is a sign of guilt when the issue is brought up.
A hate campaign like that against a single person that started a kickstarter project to spend time and effort on her work (which if totally optional, nobody is putting a gun to your head to support her kickstarter project). Thing is, I see this in a lot of places online, even here @ the hump. People do and say stuff they would never do in real life (there are exceptions to that though) and I think that as time passes it will break down barriers IRL for these people as well.
I'm not sure I can call myself a feminist since that expression has been watered down so much, encompassing bra-burning extreme anti-masculine femism (note the difference in spelling) to equal-rights groups. I guess I'm a supporter of the non-extremist feminism where work is being made against misogyny, unequality between the sexes and strong sexism.
I take it you think it's all a bunch of nonsense and over-exaggerated?
Personally I see no difference in spreading hate towards male or female. It's just as bad.
I don't see much of hate towards males in the same way. Sure, we have a small group that push suicidal/depressed people to kill themselves on webcam, we have haters and trolls around but it's not about gender, it's something else.
Anita was viciously attacked/bullied brutally because she raised the subject of misogyny and sexism in whatever form. That's the entire point, and that's why she was invited to TED to do a presentation.
This thread was specifically started to raise the issues of misogyny and extreme sexism. Downplaying the existence of those issues is a symptom of the very existence of it in our culture and society, sometimes unnoticeable. In Sweden there's still no equality between male and female salaries even though they do the same job, and we're supposed to be one of the most equal countries in the world.
I have no sympathy for man-hating bra-burners, they're the female version of the worst misogynists.
Personally I see no difference in spreading hate towards male or female. It's just as bad.
I don't see much of hate towards males in the same way. Sure, we have a small group that push suicidal/depressed people to kill themselves on webcam, we have haters and trolls around but it's not about gender, it's something else.
Anita was viciously attacked/bullied brutally because she raised the subject of misogyny and sexism in whatever form. That's the entire point, and that's why she was invited to TED to do a presentation.
...but that's just it - the same goes for anyone who says anything on the net. Male or female.
Hell, you don't even have to say something like that to get attacked. It's enough to post something you've done to get attacked. (singing, drawing, opinions etc etc). She's not that special in any other way apart from being a kickstart fraud. Had it not been for Kickstart many people would not have known about her.
shitloads of new stuff in my pc. Cant keep track of it all.
Anita was viciously attacked/bullied brutally because she raised the subject of misogyny and sexism in whatever form.
No. She was attacked because she decided to do a cash-grab and cry sexism and pity. That's why she was attacked. It had no connection with her research, as there are videos that do the same stuff for free.
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That's the entire point, and that's why she was invited to TED to do a presentation.
Don't mistake TED with TEDx. You are not invited to TEDx, you can go there yourself, the entry factors are pretty nonexistent.
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I have no sympathy for man-hating bra-burners, they're the female version of the worst misogynists.
And this is what Anita Sarkeesan is. See the quote from EA executive that I posted above you.
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A hate campaign like that against a single person that started a kickstarter project to spend time and effort on her work (which if totally optional, nobody is putting a gun to your head to support her kickstarter project).
The work that has been done previously, BETTER, and for free. That is the only reason for hate. It doesn't matter if there was a woman, man, or a transgender person behind it.
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d it seems many many males become defensive which is a sign of guilt when the issue is brought up.
The holocaust happened because of women.
Oh, women are getting defensive because of such a bullshit claim? Welp, surely it must be a sign of guilt and they're hiding something!
[...]I'm not sure I can call myself a feminist [...]
I dont think that just being respectful vis-à-vis of male and female equally does not imply beeing a feminist at all.
It should be the norm in a civilized society.
"Enlightenment is man's emergence from his self-imposed nonage. Nonage is the inability to use one's own understanding without another's guidance. This nonage is self-imposed if its cause lies not in lack of understanding but in indecision and lack of courage to use one's own mind without another's guidance. Dare to know! (Sapere aude.) "Have the courage to use your own understanding," is therefore the motto of the enlightenment."
On May 17, 2012, Sarkeesian began a Kickstarter campaign to fund a new series of short videos that would examine gender tropes in video games. The Kickstarter campaign was featured as a campaign of note on the official Kickstarter blog, and reached its funding goal of $6,000 within 24 hours, eventually raising $158,917 over the course of a month. In June 2012, prominent video game developer Bungie invited Sarkeesian to its offices to present on the creation of female characters in games.
The project resulted in a large number of negative comments, including threats of death and rape, racist abuse, and an extended attempt to have the campaign suspended; Slate characterised the response as an "absolute avalanche of misogynist abuse." Similar comments were left on Sarkeesian's YouTube account and her Wikipedia article was repeatedly vandalised, with racist abuse and images of sex acts. Sarkeesian has also reported attempts to bring down her website via a number of denial-of-service attacks and attempts to obtain and distribute her personal contact information. On July 7, 2012, a simple browser game titled Beat Up Anita Sarkeesian was uploaded to Newgrounds allowing users to click on a picture of Sarkeesian to simulating hitting her, causing the picture to become increasingly bruised; the game was taken down after a single day. Wired suggested that the level of support received by Sarkeesian's Kickstarter may have been increased by the backlash against it, and the coverage and attention which followed.
I don't care about the kickstarter project being "fraud" or not (although I do not see it as fraud, it's open to anyone to start a kickstarter campaign for whatever reason and up to people to decide if they think it's worth supporting). The amount of abuse and attacks on her and her online presence was overwhelming, vicious and illegal not to mention a major breach against freedom of speech (which does not include death threats, rape threats, defamation etc.) and human rights.
She could obviously handle it, being used to such things (although not on that level), but there are probably many that aren't as strong. And it's usually women that is attacked in that fashion, there's little to no sexism or misogyny against men.
Oh well, so far the thread has been quite interesting, even to the point of people doing everything they can to discredit the clip and esp. Anita Sarkeesian and even some punts in my direction.
I don't care about the kickstarter project being "fraud" or not (although I do not see it as fraud, it's open to anyone to start a kickstarter campaign for whatever reason and up to people to decide if they think it's worth supporting).
Sigh... You don't know anything, do you?
FYI, the first video was supposed to come out in August 2012, and the DVD with the full collection in December 2012.
Not a single video is out yet, she took the money and ran.
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The amount of abuse and attacks on her and her online presence was overwhelming, vicious and illegal not to mention a major breach against freedom of speech (which does not include death threats, rape threats, defamation etc.) and human rights.
Fair enough, but again, the abuse and attacks were NOT because of her research or gender, it was because she decided to do a quick cash grab for her videos which were previously FREE, and there still are better videos available for FREE.
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, there's little to no sexism or misogyny against men.
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAhaHAHHAHA. Ekhm.
I'm not sure if you're serious or not.
A few vids to clear up your mind.
First of all, if applied to men it's "misandry"
Second of all:
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=18c_1242448918 - A veteran Edmonton taxi driver is speaking publicly about a civil lawsuit he filed last year against four young women who falsely accused him of sexual assault after travelling in his car three years ago. Fortunely he had RECORDED THE VIDEO INSIDE HIS CAB, otherwise he would have been rotting in prison just because women claimed they were raped, without any proof whatsoever.
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=182_1346689914- Without the video, he's in jail for 20 years, allegations of rape plus witnesses. Such is the power of the testimony of a woman in a rape case - no matter how neurotic she is. Thank God, or rather, thank technology, for video cameras.
http://www.redding.com/news/2012/jun/29/burney-woman-pleads-no-contest-in-teen-sex-case/ - A 24-year-old Burney woman pleaded no contest Thursday in Shasta County Superior Court to having sex with a 15-year-old boy. In exchange for her plea, Shell Amelia Harper agreed to a sentence of 180 days in jail and three years' probation. She won't be required to register as a sex offender, but will face four years in prison if she violates the terms of her probation, her defense attorney said Friday.
Now imagine what would happen if it was a 24-year-old guy with a 15 years old girl?
A group of 3 girls strip an 11-year-old boy on the street, laugh at him, post the video on the internet. The mother doesn't want to press charges, because it was "a prank".
The boy is crying and screaming during the whole thing, and during one moment his throat his held by a girl's knee to stop him from screaming.
Imagine an opposite situation.
Imagine an 11 year old girl striped naked in public by three boys, video posted online by one of the boys.
In what fantasy world would this be considered a prank? Who can even picture them not being charged with sexual assault, attempted rape, probably put down as pedophiles dealing in child pornography, etc.
When a boy is humiliated, sexually assaulted and traumatized it's bullying, when a girl has her feelings hurt it's a sign of the patriarchal system that all women have to live with each day.
Fuck. That.
Anyone who sees something like this and isn't furious should be shown for the horrid person they are. The girls should be tried with sexual assault (at least) the mother should be tried with neglect for not pressing charges after seeing this and the 1) boy 2) girls 3) mother should get some kind of help with their respective problems.
How is this not sexual assault? Their shouldn't be an option when it comes to pressing charges or not. A crime was committed and they need to see the consequences for their actions. I am so utterly disgusted and disappointed by the mother.
Imagine if "man" was replaced by "woman" on the cover.
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Oh well, so far the thread has been quite interesting, even to the point of people doing everything they can to discredit the clip and esp. Anita Sarkeesian and even some punts in my direction.
Oh well, so far you've been ignoring almost every point in my posts and not replying to them. Typical when discussion doesn't go your way.
I'm mainly ignoring your posts since they're very antagonistic in nature and extremely defensive (from a male perspective). You on the other hand have acknowledged very little about what I've said about the subject. Then you bring up "evidence" from people that were probably part of that mob, taken from /b/ or whatever where everything is based on assumptions and personal opinions, possibly part of the continuing anti-Anita campaign. Then you bring up a single case where a boy was mistreated by girls. Shall we bring up gender statistics on rape and domestic violence?
Besides, you've basically said that misogyny on the web (and IRL) isn't really a big issue, that it's exaggerated, that she's a fraud and was only out to make money.
Bringing up cases and events that has got very little to do with the actual topic is simply a way to steer the discussion away and make it seem as if males are equally oppressed on the internet and IRL by women, a ludicrous notion.
The topic of this thread is misogyny and sexism, especially on the internet and to some extent in the gaming communities.
We find through the above statistics that 1 003 464 males and 1 245 870 females were the victims of rape or attempted rape by the opposite sex over the 12-month period previous to this study. We can conclude that over 44% of the perpetrators of rape or attempted rape during the 12 month period previous to this study were FEMALE
And yet, more than 200 survey-based studies show that domestic violence is just as likely to strike men as women. In fact, the overwhelming mass of evidence indicates that half of all domestic violence cases involve an exchange of blows and the remaining 50% is evenly split between men and women who are brutalized by their partners.
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Besides, you've basically said that misogyny on the web (and IRL) isn't really a big issue,
I didn't say anything like that.
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that it's exaggerated,
And it is, proven by stats and opinions by women working in the industry.
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that she's a fraud and was only out to make money.
Because she is. The first video was supposed to come out in August 2012. There's not a single video yet. The Kickstarter page is completely silent.
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Bringing up cases and events that has got very little to do with the actual topic is simply a way to steer the discussion away and make it seem as if males are equally oppressed on the internet and IRL by women, a ludicrous notion.
You claimed there is no sexism or misandry against men, a ridiculous and stupid claim.
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And that book cover of yours is for a humorous book.
Try to make the exact same book, but switch the word "man" to "woman".
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