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MAD_MAX333
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Location: Toronto, Canada...eh
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Posted: Mon, 18th Feb 2013 05:18 Post subject: drug or alcohol addiction |
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anyone ever dealt with it ? personally or family-wise? or even friends? how bad did it get? how did you cope with it.
my half brother is addicted to crystal meth... i havent seen him since i left back home... that was maybe 20 years ago... back home there are no jobs or hope or anything for many many people are addicted to something or other.... unfortunately my half brother is addicted to the worst of it.... he is back there with my dad... dad is a high up executive in nissan and himself a fully functioning opium addict... u wouldnt know he is an addict since he is always wearing the latest suits and colognes... but regardless he is penniless cause of his addiction and now has to deal with my brother... he also has had two strokes in last year so isnt even well to deal with any of this....
brother called my mom to ask for an iphone recently... i thought nothing of it and bought one and sent it even though i dont talk to them ever... now i hear it was to sell it for drugs... and he is out of funds again so he is constantly calling my mom here for more money or something... im scared of asking her really... i hate all this and wanna bury my head in the sand and pretend none of it is happening... i dont care enough to keep in touch with my dad although he does try to contact me (more so since the strokes) but still feel bad that he is all alone there dealing with all this.
brother will probably die or go to jail inevitably cause of his addiction... I see it here 10 times a day so must be even worse there... I dont even know why Im typing this here,guess its cause i dont wanna talk to my mom about it and learn even more and think about it even more.
so anyone ever deal with anything similar?
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sausje
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Posted: Mon, 18th Feb 2013 05:56 Post subject: |
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Well first of all they have to make up their mind to quit doing such things and get their addiciton under control.
Without their will to do it, you won't be getting anywhere.
Sure you can force it on them, but it won't help, maybe even work the opposite from what you want.
So unless your brother really wants to quit, i suggest to best ignore it and change number.
Because if you don't, i can see you getting dragged into this till the point of no return..
I know it's harsh to leave family like that, but it seems to me that he made up his mind already.
Fair enough that i'm talking about experience with drugs that you can quit quite easy from if your mind is strong enough.
But addiction is addiction, even when it's with harddrugs like that, there is always the mental side that has to get rid of the addiction aswell.
Anyway, gl with it.
Proud member of Frustrated Association of International Losers Failing Against the Gifted and Superior (F.A.I.L.F.A.G.S)

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MAD_MAX333
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Posted: Mon, 18th Feb 2013 06:01 Post subject: |
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he had to hit rock bottom... but thats with coke and heroin and stuff... meth from what i have seen is a completely different animal... and it changes u and kills QUICK.... not sure they have the resources available to help him even if they wanted to. but yah i might try to get my mom to stop taking the calls.
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no9999
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Posted: Mon, 18th Feb 2013 07:55 Post subject: |
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Well I've only seen my middle school 'friends' become drug addicts. They started with pot, and ended up on cocaine and LSD and shit like that.
I say 'friends' because we never hung out together, especially in the latter days of the middle school, with them experimenting with new drugs, I really wasn't into that shit.
Well most of them barely finished some kind of trade high school (three years hs, to become sth like a plumber, or a builders), and I remember seeing one guy from my class, some years ago, on the street, he was walking with blank stare, and when I said hi, he just stared with this creepy blank look on his face :\
Oh and when I worked at some job over the summer, the boss was high functioning alcoholic. That is, he and his friend would finish a bottle of the cheapest brandy before 10 a.m., he had the typical look of an alcoholic, and everything around him reaked of that cheap brandy (he was literally sweating that shit).
But luckily I don't have any family related issues with that.
I really wish you good luck with that, it really sounds sad, to see the ppl you are related slowly killing themselves...
"Quantum mechanics is actually, contrary to it's reputation, unbeliveably simple, once you take the physics out."
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Frant
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Posted: Mon, 18th Feb 2013 08:48 Post subject: |
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I've seen old friends become alcoholics and drug addicts, some of them dead. Then I have had/still have certain family members with abuse of prescription meds that got started by stupid doctors totally oblivious to the dependence issues and failing to tell these persons about it when they got started and got huge prescriptions. They've been trying to get off it for 13+ years, one has managed twice but fallen back again. So it's a warning example for me. My dad was an alcoholic from before I was born to he was killed (manslaugther) when I was 7. Lots of domestic abuse witnessed during my first 7 years of life.
The closest I've been was cannabis in the late 80'es/early 90'ies and amphetamines (some inner voice told me it was wrong and I argued this the last couple of times with the mate that had brought me into it. Finally I had a serious panic attack and went to my mum and told her everything and slept on the floor since I suffered from severe de-realisation) during the early 90'ies. I have no attraction to alcohol itself. I like to drink beer or fine single malt scotch a few times a year, but I have no need or urge, and I don't like being drunk.
Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn!
"The sky was the color of a TV tuned to a dead station" - Neuromancer
Last edited by Frant on Tue, 19th Feb 2013 07:35; edited 1 time in total
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Posted: Mon, 18th Feb 2013 09:26 Post subject: |
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MAD_MAX333 wrote: | he had to hit rock bottom... but thats with coke and heroin and stuff... meth from what i have seen is a completely different animal... and it changes u and kills QUICK.... not sure they have the resources available to help him even if they wanted to. but yah i might try to get my mom to stop taking the calls. |
I am really sorry. Addiction and alcoholism is a family disease, it hits everyone hard. You have as much control over addicted family members as they do with their drug when in active addiction. There is hope with Meth too, I've seen it. when they detox and get some clean time...and get some help dealing with the raw emotional early sobriety shit.
I hope you feel a bit lighter after putting that all into words.
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Posted: Mon, 18th Feb 2013 09:44 Post subject: |
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My dad had bad %%% addiction. He stopped drinking 10years ago.
I remember that he was out of home for 2-3 days when he was drinking. It was heavy. He was aggressife and we had no money because of him. He even got himself jailtime for causing trouble after drinking.
But he took a teraphy 10 years ago and never drinked since. He is other man now and even got drivers license 3 years ago.
The addicted person must have a need to snap out of it. Otherwise it wont work.
The other person is father of my gf. He still drinks on daily basis. Not much hope for him tho. I need to move my gf out of there and we need to start living on our own so she can finally have a good life.
We also happened to bump on my uncle lying on a sidewalk from time to time couple of years ago. He was terrible.... Now he also dont drink. Have nice audi a6 and is a decent man
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VonMisk
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Posted: Mon, 18th Feb 2013 09:52 Post subject: |
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The key word here is that he has to want it. To get over the addiction and get sober again. Without that goal it would be futile fight for you, which will consume your time, money and finally your own health. Detox and therapy is a parial solution here but without your support and more important his own will, he is probably going to run away, steal some money and get some meth.
I wish I could be more optimistic here but you said yourself that he hit rock bottom. And to get out from there it's just hard, hard ungrateful work.
sar·casm | \ ˈsär-ˌka-zəm \
1: a sharp and often satirical or ironic utterance designed to cut or give pain
2a: a mode of satirical wit depending for its effect on bitter, caustic, and often ironic language that is usually directed against an individual
b: the use or language of sarcasm
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spankie
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Posted: Mon, 18th Feb 2013 13:52 Post subject: |
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In my opinion, many people have bad habits and become addicted because other people allow them to. For example, people drink a lot, but still have no major abusive behavior. For many people, the fact that they have to go to work or have to earn money, keeps their behavior in control. It's only when other people start 'helping' with the behavior, start giving money etc. people become really fucked up.
A uni friend of mine used to go out with me and my buddies. We all knew he had some issues and was the one who drank the most always and everywhere. But he had his behavior somewhat under control. In the end, he still had to go to class now and then. Ok, let's fast-forward 3-4 years. We all graduated, he did not. I occasionally have to pass through the street where all the student bars are when I have to teach class at 8.30AM or 9AM. I once saw him zigzagging in the street with a bottle of rum in his hand, he obviously just closed a bar and just bought some extra booze from the liquor store. I stopped my car next to him and he told me 'to come party along with him'. I told him it was 9AM, i was going to work, and he had to go to bed and try to attend a class in the afternoon.
So obviously, his behavior was out of control. Over the past 4-5 years he got convicted numerous times for DUI, causing accidents whilst DUI, aggression and all sorts of booze related crap. All minor offences, no jail time, but nevertheless, not a nice resume. And along the way his mama bought him 2 cars, which he crashed DUI.
So last year, me and some friends went on a hiking/camping trip. We booked a flight to some remote location in the Scotland and hiked around for a week. I drove to the airport with my friends. Mr drinker was dropped off by his parents. Guess what, they gave him some money to buy some whiskey... I mean, if you know your kid has problems, don't treat him like a super star, and don't give him money to buy booze... Anywayz, we were able to keep him of the excessive boozing during the holiday, because we all know, booze in the guy = aggression and troubles. The guy was fairly enjoyable, we tried to convince him that he was much more fun when he was not drinking etc.
Past summer, we were doing a road trip in the USA. I thought, well last year mr boozer was ok, i'll invite him along. It will do him well, being around normal people, he just has to follow us on the trip, has no planning to do, he can hike a lot, sport a lot, sightsee a lot. An environment where you cannot booze all day. There are no clubs in the Grand Canyon... Guess what his mama gave him for the trip? A booze budget and a gambling budget The guy is 26 years, has no income, is still studying and boozing a lot. And what is mama doing? Enabling him to booze a lot and gamble a lot. Very smart for a guy sensitive to addictions. So in Vegas, he was not boozing that much, but we had to keep him away from the roulette table...
The rest of the trip, we constantly had to 'fight' to keep him away from the bars, prevent him from buying bottles of wine for a barbeque in some national park, keep him away from the strip bars in Vegas etc. But it was so tiring, he was constantly planning his next binge, buying 'spare wine' 'just in case'. Half of the time he was pissed because we were getting up early (9 or 10AM) to do some 'retarded sightseeing in some stupid national park'. But in the end he started to realize that he was the one with a problem, not we, he even started to consider 'maybe i should get some help when i get back to belgium. You guys are having fun all day without drinking, i am always planning to get booze'.
And what happens when we finally get back to Belgium? Mommy is there to pick him up from the airport at 6PM and treats him like a super star again.
I know it is hard, but you cannot enforce addictions. I mean, the guy was with us on a trip for 3 weeks and realized he had problems. But once he was back, mommmy 'took care' of him. Meaning: he does not have to do an effort for anything. When I wake up hangover in the morning, i am hungry. There is no food? I have to go get it. I think 'fuck this, next time, think twice'. But if you can get hungover, just roll over, wait, shove some food in your mouth, that's quite handy. If you can dial around for money rather than work for it, it's easy.
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Roach_666
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Saner
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Posted: Mon, 18th Feb 2013 15:15 Post subject: |
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Good luck with dealing with it, you are in a situation I hope I never find myself in.
With addiction of any kind, the addict has to want to quit at the end of the day, if they have no interest in quitting then you may as well bang your head up against a brick wall for all the good it would do.
I agree with the others though, you should maybe make the effort with your father, even if its just crap once a year birthday cards (or similar) as someone who had an estranged family member die recently after years of not talking to them I wish I had done a few things differently.
Good luck.
S.
ragnarus wrote: |
I saw things like that in here and in other "woman problems" topics so...... Am I the only one that thinks some authorities needs to be alerted about Saner and him possibly being a rapist and/or kidnapper ? |
Saner is not being serious. Unless its the subject of Santa!
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MAD_MAX333
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Posts: 7020
Location: Toronto, Canada...eh
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Posted: Mon, 18th Feb 2013 18:16 Post subject: |
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sigh its horrible... the longer i go without talking to him the more shy i get cause it gets harder and harder to say anything... "hey sorry i basically ignored u for better part of a decade... but sup?" sigh he msges me on fb but i pretended i didn't see it... so he msged my mom and said its ok if he doesn't wanna talk to me i understand... which is bad cause although technically his addiction was the leading cause of me and my mom leaving the country (life style continually downgrading and creditors calling and stuff) but he personally was never a bad father, never hit me or yell at me or was bad... went to work everyday and was there... we just alienated now...
my brother keeps asking to come here... and my mom was contemplating it to "save him from that environment"... which has a valid point since when everyone around u is on drugs or does that for fun and no jobs, then chances of relapse are much higher... meth is bad enough but that environment makes it near impossible to kick it.
anyway i told my mom not to even entertain the thought... absolutely not... he hasn't even finished high-school.... much less learn English.. and not like he has any trade skills... and not like he cant find meth if he looked here... and no more phones... or money... or anything... there is no solution here for him... its one of those shitty situations and that's about it in the simplest terms. he had every opportunity as a kid, to finish school, he had tutors, signed up for every extra circular sport... he didn't finish any.... he didn't even finish his army years we had to buy it out...
maybe i'll type an email for my dad
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Posted: Mon, 18th Feb 2013 18:52 Post subject: |
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If how to apologize is whats keeping you from contacting your father, i would just stuff the apology. Your father knows why you left, and he misses his son dearly from the looks of it. He will not care for an apology, just hear his sons voice and hope you can try to be familiar to each other again. This is what i think anyway, chances are he will start apologizing for his addiction and driving you two off first anyway, and then it will be easier for you to apologize for whatever you think you should apologize for.
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Posted: Mon, 18th Feb 2013 20:42 Post subject: |
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Totally relevant to this topic:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=189383205_k
Anyway, as for actual advice. You have a chance to save your brother from what you know is certain death and rekindle some form of connection with your father.
My father died when i was 11, he was an alcoholic. I became one myself when i was 17. Do i hate the guy? I did. Do i wish i could've seen him one more time? I do.
You already know what the right thing is. The only question is do you bury your head in the sand like the rest of the pussy human race/society, or do you get off your ass and do something about it?
Clown Fiesta
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MAD_MAX333
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Posted: Mon, 18th Feb 2013 22:23 Post subject: |
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what would that something be?
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Posted: Mon, 18th Feb 2013 22:28 Post subject: |
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Put him in rehab/counseling/whatever he needs to stay off the meth, he'll thank you in a couple of years. And even if he doesn't at least you did something.
As for your old man, get over it, you're a grown ass man now, it's time you let the past go and make due with what time you have left.
Clown Fiesta
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Posted: Tue, 19th Feb 2013 03:40 Post subject: |
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Unfortunately the success rate isn't as high for rehab as you might think. I think it is only 7% that stay sober the first year. And in the recovery rooms for every person that comes in it is 3% that make it the first year. Those are Canadian BC stats.... Recovery stats are kinda ...Mehhhh.
But even if don't make it the first year, the seeds are planted.
The are AA and NA meetings all over the world. Including middle eastern countries. They are just more underground but they do exist. Can't be too hard to find. I know a few canadians who were able to find them. You will learn all the tools for sobriety in those rooms - same as rehab. But the rooms are free. And people aren't paid to help you. They do it to keep sober themselves.
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spankie
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Posted: Tue, 19th Feb 2013 09:52 Post subject: |
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There's a new series on discovery channel 'drugged'. This week it was about an alcoholic who literally died in rehab because he had fucked up his body so hard. Anyone who drinks a lot should watch it. Just made me sick and sad and i am not easily emotionally moved...
Really shocking to see that guy down half a bottle of vodka in 1 minute because he hadnt had a drink in 8(!) hours and was shaking like hell. He took the bottle and almost wet his pants i think. He then was shaking of joy, almost could not drink the bottle. Finally downed it and then puked because he drank too fast. boy o boy.
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Posted: Tue, 19th Feb 2013 11:18 Post subject: |
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Are all the rehabs centred around god and accepting that you can get over your addiction by praying and so on or have I really got the wrong impression of it all?
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Frant
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Posted: Tue, 19th Feb 2013 11:22 Post subject: |
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kazemaky wrote: | Are all the rehabs centred around god and accepting that you can get over your addiction by praying and so on or have I really got the wrong impression of it all? |
I don't know about all rehab centers.. You don't have to believe in a god though, the point is to believe in "something" whatever that is, form a connection to something that psychologically makes you more prone to succeed in rehabilitating yourself.
I guess there are certain religious rehab centers as well as non-religious/independent ones.
My brother in law was a grave alcoholic and almost ruined his life (he had 2 kids at the time but he was out drinking and fighting, self-medication of a childhood of abuse). Then he hit rock bottom, signed in to a 12-step rehab center, came out and have been sober since then.. 14 years so far. He still says he's an alcoholic. Once or twice a year he gets urges but he knows how to manage them. Now he can sit with work mates and watch sports and drink soda while the others drink beer without it bothering him. But then he's a strong willed and intelligent guy.
Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn!
"The sky was the color of a TV tuned to a dead station" - Neuromancer
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deelix
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Posted: Tue, 19th Feb 2013 11:57 Post subject: |
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I know some people have a real problem with moderation but going cold turkey must be so boring...
And im so tired of hearing about these people who think EVERYTHING is so much better after they quit drinking/drugs. I simply don't believe in getting high on life... such spiritual people are delusional. But I guess if they are able to trick themselves on some level it actually helps them :/
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Frant
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Posted: Tue, 19th Feb 2013 11:58 Post subject: |
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deelix wrote: | I know some people have a real problem with moderation but going cold turkey must be so boring...
And im so tired of hearing about these people who think EVERYTHING is so much better after they quit drinking/drugs. I simply don't believe in getting high on life... such spiritual people are delusional. But I guess if they are able to trick themselves on some level it actually helps them :/ |
This thread is about abuse, addiction and severe illnesses. Not about you taking a toke every weekend or drinking a 6-pack etc. on your holiday. For those people there's no such thing as trying to get back to moderation, they have a psychological (and according to neuropsychiatric research) & physical illness. People can die doing cold turkeys, get delirium tremens, kill their liver etc. and yet they can't stop because parts of their brain and the biological system in the body has adapted and changed to the intake of alcohol/heavy drugs.
Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn!
"The sky was the color of a TV tuned to a dead station" - Neuromancer
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deelix
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Posted: Tue, 19th Feb 2013 12:23 Post subject: |
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yeah, iv heard about people who die from going cold turkey, but what if they (under supervision ofc) was given smaller and smaller amounts of alcohol over a long period of time. Decreasing the intake over time. At one point they must be able to live without alcohol ("live" is a relativ term tho :/ )... im sure there are studies about this? You're a smart guy who probably have lots of insight on this subject
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Frant
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Posted: Tue, 19th Feb 2013 14:59 Post subject: |
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deelix wrote: | yeah, iv heard about people who die from going cold turkey, but what if they (under supervision ofc) was given smaller and smaller amounts of alcohol over a long period of time. Decreasing the intake over time. At one point they must be able to live without alcohol ("live" is a relativ term tho :/ )... im sure there are studies about this? You're a smart guy who probably have lots of insight on this subject |
All I know is that they're forever addicts and weaning off alcohol/whatever like that isn't afaik very effective, their desire and urge to get drunk have deep psychological and physiological reasons after many years of abuse. But I have no statistics or even knowledge of such treatment.
Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn!
"The sky was the color of a TV tuned to a dead station" - Neuromancer
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Posted: Tue, 19th Feb 2013 23:14 Post subject: |
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Forever an alcoholic or addict for sure. Once a pickle you can never go back to being a cucumber.
If is damn near impossible to taper off of alcohol. They give you ativan or Valium for the seizures and you are medically supervised.
The treatment centers that have the 'best' recovery rate of long term sobriety are 12 step. There is a 'god' factor but it is whatever you want it to be. A tree, a rock, even The Force from Starwars. I prefer to think of it as a "higher Truth" and the prayer as positive reinforcement against a life time of negitive thinking. I think of 12 step as process that helps you become more self realized. You end up being less angry, less resentful and get more insight to you own bullshit that is forever backfiring. You become less controlling.
@deelix
When you have a serious problem and your life gets to a point where the only solution you can see in front of you is jumping off a bridge..... and something happens that changes that... Everything really is all that much better because you just got a get outta jail card from Hell.
But then there are always people that say life is so much better because they are full of Shit. Then they go out. And blame everyone cuz their feeling got hurt. When all they wanted to do was drink the whole time.
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Posted: Wed, 20th Feb 2013 04:13 Post subject: |
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Everyone here pretty much is calling this right.
Including the stats about rehab. Only around 5% of individuals who get involved with 12 step programs NA AA n all the rest stay clean long term, that is for 5 years or more. Many of those have had lotsa cracks at staying clean and sober until they finally got there.
This is what makes me wary of this type of rehab. While it is true that time spent in rehab can help a person who picks up again by giving them a few skills which will keep them safer and more healthy than they were before, it is worth remembering that former 12 step attendees, both graduates & drop outs have most likely been convinced into believing they have an incurable disease.
This can make the addicts who 'relapse' even more obsessive than before. Once they thought they could control their use, now they are convinced they cannot and believe they have bought a one way ticket on a ride to insanity & death.
The 12 steppers claim there is no such thing as controlled usage, but I beg to differ, people are unique individuals so while NA stats are very accurate at predicting how a group of people will likely behave, theycannot predict how one specific individual - in this case your brother - will behave.
Before you do anything to help your brother it is vital that you believe the truth; that his using is down to him alone. You or anyone else, including your parents, have no responsibility for the decisions he has made.
If you don't believe that in your heart it is prolly better if you stay away from him, as the addict part of him will play you like an old violin, all the while inside this your brother will be watching, appalled and ashamed at what he is doing. An interaction such as that will make your brother's recovery a lot more difficult for him to pull off.
If you do decide to confront your brother to help him, if you can take along at least one other person who also loves your brother.
Before you do make sure you and whoever else are 100% agreed on what it is you believe the outcome of the meeting should be, as well as the best way to achieve it.
Any cracks in the wall of loving support will be detected by bro and seen by him as some sort of nefarious plot going awry.
Finally don't do this unless you are 100% committed to see it thru, otherwise the odds are high you will make things worse.
Good luck if you do go ahead with this, if you commit to it there is every chance you will regain a brother, even if he doesn't turn out to be one of the 5%, getting a bro back for whatever length of time will be worth it for both of you.
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Posted: Thu, 21st Feb 2013 10:18 Post subject: |
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UreKismet wrote: |
The 12 steppers claim there is no such thing as controlled usage, but I beg to differ, people are unique individuals so while NA stats are very accurate at predicting how a group of people will likely behave, theycannot predict how one specific individual - in this case your brother - will behave.
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There is no claiming of any sort. Simply put - if you can control then do so. You DON'T need a 12 step program. If you try and try again to control and can not, and have tried everything else ...then maybe a 12 step program will work.
There is literature to back this up so get it straight.
Rehabs herd everyone the same way into the 12 steps whether they are a true candidate or not.
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