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tw1st
Posts: 6112
Location: New Jersey
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Posted: Tue, 5th Mar 2013 14:34 Post subject: 120hz Monitors? |
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So whats the big deal with these now-a-days?
I've been using a 21inch monitor for a few years, it's at 60hz, and it works just fine for me. Some people have mentioned that 120hz monitors offer smoother game-play, and slightly better visuals. Is this really the case? If so, I might be inclined to purchase one in the future.
Also, I'm not one to use vsync...ever. Tearing never bothered me, maybe cause I don't pay close enough attention to it. For someone who never uses vsync, would 120hz even be worthy a purchase? They have some decent deals on newegg.
| BenQ XL2420T 24" 120Hz | Ducky Shine III 9008 White LED - Brown MX | Logitech G9x |
| Corsair Carbide 400R | Asus Sabertooth z77 | i7 3770K @ 4.3Ghz - 1.200v | CM Hyper 212 Evo - Push/Pull |
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Sin317
Banned
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Location: Geneva
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Posted: Tue, 5th Mar 2013 15:50 Post subject: |
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Ankh
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Posted: Tue, 5th Mar 2013 16:44 Post subject: |
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tw1st
Posts: 6112
Location: New Jersey
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Posted: Tue, 5th Mar 2013 18:35 Post subject: |
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Stige
Posts: 3544
Location: Finland
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Posted: Tue, 5th Mar 2013 18:52 Post subject: |
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Breezer_ wrote: | IF you want to benefit from 120Hz monitor, you need atleast 75fps+ all the time. You have probably seen that its impossible these days, unless you have some monster quad sli setup 120hz panels are also TN shit, just get IPS You can get OC´d 27" 120Hz IPS panels aswell. |
Not true at all, the biggest benefit is propably actually if your game runs in the 30-60 FPS range instead of constant 60+, it will make it insanely more smooth at sub-60 FPS.
Today I was wondering when I installed my 3570K and booted why the heck was my desktop so frickin choppy for some reason, turns out the monitor was running 60Hz instead of 120Hz for some reason, the difference is so clear when you have used 120Hz for yourself.
I can definitely recommend 120Hz, it is unbeliavably good!
BenQ XL2420T is what I got.
You also don't need to run it at 120FPS to get full benefits, it seriously makes everything a lot smoother regardless of your FPS.
Please try it out people before you say it offers no benefit...
Yes, TN panel has crappy viewing angles but the 120Hz more than makes up for that and I really couldn't care how it looks when viewing from the sides as I always it in front of it anyway.
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Werelds
Special Little Man
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Posted: Tue, 5th Mar 2013 19:21 Post subject: |
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Stige wrote: | Yes, TN panel has crappy viewing angles, terrible contrast and horrible colour reproduction so the 120Hz still doesn't make up for that. |
Fixed.
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tw1st
Posts: 6112
Location: New Jersey
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Posted: Tue, 5th Mar 2013 19:27 Post subject: |
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Lots of conflicted answers here...
I would be very interested for smoother gameplay for sub 60FPS. If this is in fact true, then this statement alone sold me on it.
@Spikez
damn dude, over $500 for a monitor, while I'm sure it's amazing I don't think I could justify spending that much on it. I'm pretty sure I couldn't even fit a 27" on my desk anyway, plus 1080p is all I'm really looking for.
Will add ya to mah steam when I get back home.
| BenQ XL2420T 24" 120Hz | Ducky Shine III 9008 White LED - Brown MX | Logitech G9x |
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Stige
Posts: 3544
Location: Finland
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Posted: Tue, 5th Mar 2013 19:31 Post subject: |
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tw1st wrote: | Lots of conflicted answers here...
I would be very interested for smoother gameplay for sub 60FPS. If this is in fact true, then this statement alone sold me on it. |
It seriously is a huge increase, it makes it as if 45 FPS was 60 FPS basicly, it seriously makes it so smooth at lower FPS.
People tend to overexaggrate the color issues a lot and especially those who have never even touched a 120Hz, I can relate because I was one of those people when a friend bought a 120Hz I just lol'd at him why did he buy that shit
But after seeing and trying them out, I can say hand on heart the smoothness is unbeliavable compared to 60Hz regardless of what you do, desktop alone is SO MUCH smoother compared to 60Hz.
Just don't get fooled by the IPS panels that can be overclocked, very few of them even manage to break 100Hz mark and overclocking propably, like overclocking anything, doesn't exactly increase the lifetime of the monitor.
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Werelds
Special Little Man
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Posted: Tue, 5th Mar 2013 19:36 Post subject: |
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It will make things appear somewhat smoother, but it still won't make irregular frametimes (microstuttering) feel any better. Wat stige says is horse shit, it won't make 45 FPS magically feel super smooth, especially not if frametimes are irregular. That and you still won't get the full benefit unless you actually run 120 FPS. Smoothness has much less to do with refresh rate or even FPS than it does with frametimes.
Doesn't outweight actual image quality, not for me anyway. TN is just so unbelievably bad on all fronts, viewing angles are hardly the real problem with TN panels. Colour issues are not exaggerated at all, now THAT really is an argument thrown by people who want to justify whatever TN monitor they have. I've had some of the best and I didn't think twice before throwing the last of them out when I got my second IPS monitor.
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tw1st
Posts: 6112
Location: New Jersey
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Posted: Tue, 5th Mar 2013 19:38 Post subject: |
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So I need to be educated a bit more, excuse my silly questions.
There are two types of 120Hz monitors, IPS and TN? I'm assuming one might be superior to the other, and most likely a lot more expensive. Did you say overclocking an IPS? wait... so you can now overclock a monitor....wow lol.
Also, like I mentioned earlier, I never ever ever use v-sync, so would I still benefit with a 120Hz monitor if my games are running sub 60FPS?
| BenQ XL2420T 24" 120Hz | Ducky Shine III 9008 White LED - Brown MX | Logitech G9x |
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tw1st
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Werelds
Special Little Man
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Posted: Tue, 5th Mar 2013 19:42 Post subject: |
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No, IPS and TN are panel types. You know how you've got a "TFT" or "LCD" monitor? IPS and TN are the second layer, the one responsible for actually showing an image.
TN is what you get in digital watches, alarm clocks and 90% of all monitors out there. It looks fine, until you see the image on an IPS monitor.
The overclocking part refers to cheap Korean IPS monitors that have come out recently, they allow themselves to be overclocked somewhat -run at a higher-than-60-Hz refresh rate-.
If <60 FPS feels unsmooth in a game, 120 Hz is not going to change that, because that means the game has very irregular frametimes (meaning that one frame takes much longer than another). Regardless of how many times your monitor refreshes, if it has no new frame to display and the frames come at irregular intervals, your eyes will notice it and it will look like utter crap.
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tw1st
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Stige
Posts: 3544
Location: Finland
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Posted: Tue, 5th Mar 2013 19:53 Post subject: |
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tw1st wrote: | So I need to be educated a bit more, excuse my silly questions.
There are two types of 120Hz monitors, IPS and TN? I'm assuming one might be superior to the other, and most likely a lot more expensive. Did you say overclocking an IPS? wait... so you can now overclock a monitor....wow lol.
Also, like I mentioned earlier, I never ever ever use v-sync, so would I still benefit with a 120Hz monitor if my games are running sub 60FPS? |
IPS = Image quality (more vivid colors and better viewing angles)
TN = 120Hz
If you don't do photoediting and stuff on daily basis, IPS is not needed IMO, 120Hz will offer you a lot more than IPS would, especially if you play games a lot, especially FPS games.
But I'm out of this thread now, there is no point in arguing with the people who have never used 120Hz monitors and think they know everything.
It is upto you what you buy, but 120Hz is way superior compared to 60Hz, even if they are stuck with "crappy" TN panels, they still aren't awful and are much better for gaming than IPS.
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Werelds
Special Little Man
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Posted: Tue, 5th Mar 2013 19:57 Post subject: |
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@ Tw1st: You're welcome
Honestly though, don't take my or Stige's word for it, just see if you can check things out yourself. All I can tell you for certain is that a game with crappy frametimes will still look like crap, even if you were to run it on a 1000 Hz monitor. That is just not technically possible and I've seen this myself as well.
Everything else, as to whether it's worth it for for games that have steady frametimes versus having proper colours and contrast is a highly subjective matter. I very much prefer the latter.
Stige wrote: | But I'm out of this thread now, there is no point in arguing with the people who have never used 120Hz monitors and think they know everything.
It is upto you what you buy, but 120Hz is way superior compared to 60Hz, even if they are stuck with "crappy" TN panels, they still aren't awful and are much better for gaming than IPS. |
Like arguing with people think they know what the fuck I have or haven't used? I have used 120 Hz monitors, and I'm pretty sure I've used more of them than you have since your experience seems to be based on exactly 2 of them..and how many IPS monitors have you used?
The only TN panels that get anywhere near even a "cheap" IPS panel such as in LG's IPS 226V are the ones that cost over half a grand. And then you still don't get 120 Hz.
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LeoNatan
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Posted: Tue, 5th Mar 2013 20:00 Post subject: |
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With sufficiently large TN panel (24" is sufficiently large), even if you sit in the middle, the sides of the screen shift color. 
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Stige
Posts: 3544
Location: Finland
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Posted: Tue, 5th Mar 2013 20:06 Post subject: |
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Werelds wrote: | @ Tw1st: You're welcome
Honestly though, don't take my or Stige's word for it, just see if you can check things out yourself. All I can tell you for certain is that a game with crappy frametimes will still look like crap, even if you were to run it on a 1000 Hz monitor. That is just not technically possible and I've seen this myself as well.
Everything else, as to whether it's worth it for for games that have steady frametimes versus having proper colours and contrast is a highly subjective matter. I very much prefer the latter.
Stige wrote: | But I'm out of this thread now, there is no point in arguing with the people who have never used 120Hz monitors and think they know everything.
It is upto you what you buy, but 120Hz is way superior compared to 60Hz, even if they are stuck with "crappy" TN panels, they still aren't awful and are much better for gaming than IPS. |
Like arguing with people think they know what the fuck I have or haven't used? I have used 120 Hz monitors, and I'm pretty sure I've used more of them than you have since your experience seems to be based on exactly 2 of them..and how many IPS monitors have you used?
The only TN panels that get anywhere near even a "cheap" IPS panel such as in LG's IPS 226V are the ones that cost over half a grand. And then you still don't get 120 Hz. |
Well just proved my point really why I can't be arsed arguing over it. If you had used 120Hz you would easily notice the difference between 60Hz and 120Hz.
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Werelds
Special Little Man
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Posted: Tue, 5th Mar 2013 20:13 Post subject: |
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Stige wrote: | Well just proved my point really why I can't be arsed arguing over it. If you had used 120Hz you would easily notice the difference between 60Hz and 120Hz. |
Who the hell says I don't notice it? Because I do. I just don't think it's worth it over the IQ IPS has to offer, because that actually makes games look better as well (you'd be surprised at how much detail you miss because a TN panel can't deal with the contrast, gradients in particular).
But your statement that it will somehow magically fix 35 FPS to look like 60 is just horseshit. That's not an opinion, that is an actual fact because it is not technically possible. If a game has irregular frametimes, you will notice the microstuttering regardless of how many times per second your screen refreshes. And yes, most games that look like crap running at 30-40 FPS have microstuttering, that's why they look so crap. Consoles have shittons of microstuttering as well. Crysis (1) at 45 FPS looks fine, because CE2 -while taxing- generally generates surprisingly steady frametimes.
Again, the 120 Hz does look smoother if a game runs steady (a game that jumps between 20 and 80 FPS will also still look like crap) but as to whether that weighs up against the improved IQ from IPS is a highly subjective matter. For me it doesn't, clearly for you it does.
And next time, before you start throwing accusations around, you may actually want to see if you're right.
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tw1st
Posts: 6112
Location: New Jersey
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Posted: Tue, 5th Mar 2013 20:25 Post subject: |
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Either way, thanks for everyone's input here. Really I'm just trying to educate myself about these a bit more before spending any bigl cash.
Like werelds said, I think it will be best for me to just see both in person and in action, then I can make a decision based off of what works best for me and my budget. I guess it comes down to that everyone see's these things differently, and what looks good for one person might not necessarily look good to another.
I will try and check these out in my PC shop, hopefully they have some on display I can test out.
Thanks again everyone.
| BenQ XL2420T 24" 120Hz | Ducky Shine III 9008 White LED - Brown MX | Logitech G9x |
| Corsair Carbide 400R | Asus Sabertooth z77 | i7 3770K @ 4.3Ghz - 1.200v | CM Hyper 212 Evo - Push/Pull |
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tw1st
Posts: 6112
Location: New Jersey
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Posted: Thu, 14th Mar 2013 13:38 Post subject: |
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alright, I bit the bullet and went ahead and bought a 120Hz monitor.
I originally did not want to spend the cash on it, but I did want something larger & better than what I have now. After seeing one at the store, I was sold. Don't get me wrong IPS was gorgeous, but for my purposes a TN will do just fine.
Went with a BenQ XL2420T ( http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824014270 )
Coming today, can't wait to set this bad boy up! Will be a very nice upgrade from my cheapo LG LCD display that I've had for 4 years.
| BenQ XL2420T 24" 120Hz | Ducky Shine III 9008 White LED - Brown MX | Logitech G9x |
| Corsair Carbide 400R | Asus Sabertooth z77 | i7 3770K @ 4.3Ghz - 1.200v | CM Hyper 212 Evo - Push/Pull |
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Stige
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tw1st
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couleur
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Stige
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Location: Finland
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Posted: Thu, 14th Mar 2013 15:33 Post subject: |
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tw1st wrote: | Stige wrote: | tw1st wrote: | alright, I bit the bullet and went ahead and bought a 120Hz monitor.
I originally did not want to spend the cash on it, but I did want something larger & better than what I have now. After seeing one at the store, I was sold. Don't get me wrong IPS was gorgeous, but for my purposes a TN will do just fine.
Went with a BenQ XL2420T ( http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824014270 )
Coming today, can't wait to set this bad boy up! Will be a very nice upgrade from my cheapo LG LCD display that I've had for 4 years. |
Good choice, the one I made myself when I was looking to upgrade from my previous Samsung 226BW
Have not regretted the 120Hz the least bit since then. |
Cool, I'm sure I will be very pleased with it that.
Stige, can you recommend any calibration settings? As soon as I get it I'm going to check for dead pixels and try and get it calibrated nicely. |
http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/articles/icc_profiles.htm 2 ICC Profiles there and settings you should use with them.
I got the TFT Central one, haven't tried the "User" one though.
The stock brightness will blow your eyes out of your head lol.
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tw1st
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