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Baleur
Posts: 2343
Location: South Sweden
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Posted: Fri, 4th Mar 2005 02:23 Post subject: The good old RTS days must come back. |
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I for one am waiting hard for Act of War, because it remings me of the good oldC&C days, pump out infantry and vehicles, go after max 2 resources, build towers that are expensive and actually can do their job of defending the base.
Thats what i liked about RTS games and thats what i still like.
I remember back in C&C where the most dangerous thing was the missile towers or the obelisks. There was no going back. Attack with too small a force, the towers ate you up. Same with bunkers, rush with infantry, they died faster than u can count your asses.
Thats how a good rts is in my opinion, i'm SOO sick of these newbie friendly sissygames that have come out lately, including the great Empires: Dawn of the modern world and even warcraft 3 and any other u can mention...
They make the games sooo forgiving, attack with too small a force? no worry just retreat and build up again, there are no such thing as dangerous defensive structures in modern RTS, no, never ever. Even a friggen fortress cant kill more than 1 infantry unit at a time at best, not to mention tanks, a tank that needs 5 hits to go down from the most expensive defensive structure in a game? Fuck that.
Yeah im ranting, i'll actually make this into a new thread (originally in the "anyone excited for ....?" thread.
There must be someone that agrees with me..?
Dont get me wrong alot of new RTS games are really good, but they always get that danger level wrong..
Remember in Red Alert? Where a handful of v2 launchers would completely devastate a base if left unprotected, see some coming? Take em out NOW before they get a shot off!
Or where the bazookamen were lifethreatening to aircraft, a group of antiair infantry on that side of the base? Forget it!! Find another way.
Not todays common sissycrap with the airplanes just getting damaged a little bit..
Remember also in red alert, the only game so far that have suceeded in one point when it comes to fitting in with the game. Special powers....
The Chronosphere, sure time teleportation is a bit off, but so was the story of red alert, the Iron Curtain, a clean, slow loading, low duration, extremely efficent invurnerability effect.
Todays games have so forgiving gameplay, and in a desperate attempt to be "innovative" they keep on adding special shit that doesnt fit in at all..
1. Empire: dawn of the modern world's special shit you get from the university, complete bullshit.
2. Empire Earth 2's research system, "wohoo research 1 out of 5 military research options and get +10% more dmg on that", no fun at all. Not to mention the automatic unit upgrades when the correct epoch appears. Joy of research element = gone.
So what IS good according to me (my opinion, dont flame or respond if u dont agree)....
To me, the perfect RTS would have all of these Critical points..
1. Walls, walls walls walls, a base not walled in is a bad base.
2. Strong defensive structures, if a anti-vehicle tower is worse than an actual vehicle, something is wrong. Towers are stationary, hence the only benefit they have is their firepower and damage resistance, if those 2 things are gone, they become useless.
3. High/no pop limit, no bullshit like "cant build more houses", if i have the space in my base to build 50 houses, let me build 50 houses.
4. Every unit has its role, every unit CAN be used solo.
If i want to build 300 marines and attack, i should be able to do so.
If i want to build 30 tanks and attack, i should be able to do so.
In most games today the only way is to build a fair mix of ALL units, look at Armies of Exigo for example, only if you are very skilled can you win with only 1-2 types of units.
Why accept that games restrict you? If i am facing a very good player that knows every units role of course he would beat me, but my 30 tank attack should STILL do a hell of alot of damage, without the invisible damage bonus in some games (trust me, getting shot by a tank shell hurts just as much as getting shot by a machine gun, little soldier there..)..
Ok, i think my rant is over, a rant a month keeps the doctor away.
If anyone would actually agree with me, perhaps the doctor will keep away for more than a month this time??
Amen and sleep tight.
CPU: Intel Core 2 Duo E6600 RAM: 4gb Kingmax DDR2 800mhz Video: Asus GeForce 250GTS 1gb Sound: Asus Xonar.
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-=Cartoon=-
VIP Member
Posts: 8823
Location: South Pacific Ocean
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Posted: Fri, 4th Mar 2005 02:32 Post subject: |
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i like
- Walls
- Large Unit Numbers
- Base Building
- Resource gathering
Eg
Empire Earth
Age Of Empires
etc etc etc etc.
Those type of games make the BEST lan games
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-=Cartoon=-
VIP Member
Posts: 8823
Location: South Pacific Ocean
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Posted: Fri, 4th Mar 2005 02:35 Post subject: |
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and i dont agree with your poll.. they are not all trying to be RPGs...
i dont see anything to wrong with current RTS.. especially with aow/empre earth 2/age of empires 3 coming up soon
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Posted: Fri, 4th Mar 2005 03:02 Post subject: |
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Completley agree Baleur.
I remember the good ole C&C days where strategically building your base and walling it in was half the fun, defensive structures were actually useful and powerful, and mass assaults ruled the day. Your ranting brought a tear to my eye =) , you were dead on.
Is Act of War poised to deliver that same feel? I hope so, but not entirely too sure it will succeed. Westwood is long gone, and with its death, that perfect formula was lost, to be replaced by the crap we know of today.
As for the RTS / RPG mix? Get that fuckin shit out of RTS titles. If I want to level a character, I'll go play fuckin EQ2, World of Warcraft, or Morrowind. Let me focus on defensive/offensive setup, and leave the fuckin heroes at home.
I can never be free, because the shackles I wear can't be touched or be seen.
i9-9900k, MSI MPG-Z390 Gaming Pro Carbon, 32GB DDR4 @ 3000, eVGA GTX 1080 DT, Samsung 970 EVO Plus nVME 1TB
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Posted: Fri, 4th Mar 2005 07:19 Post subject: |
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I agree, I'm missing the good old gameplay from Red Alert, C&C. That's why i'm waiting for AOW. But: AOEIII must be very good too, and that's what i'm more waiting for.
But to say that the gamequality is worser, I don't know, it depends on yourself I think.
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MAD_MAX333
Moderator
Posts: 7020
Location: Toronto, Canada...eh
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Posted: Fri, 4th Mar 2005 09:35 Post subject: |
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i like no pop, no walls, huge base, ALOT and i mean ALOTTTTTTT of research options to reward me with a good army if i invest the time... resource gathering... basically RA2 with rise of nations research tree.... god how i miss a good old rts
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Nezul
Posts: 76
Location: Sweden
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swebarb
Posts: 2154
Location: Vikingland
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Posted: Fri, 4th Mar 2005 11:47 Post subject: |
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[sYn]
[Moderator] Elitist
Posts: 8374
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Posted: Fri, 4th Mar 2005 13:22 Post subject: |
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All I have to say is this:
The Obelisk of Light..
*agree's*
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Posted: Fri, 4th Mar 2005 13:39 Post subject: |
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Those good ole RTSs had a personality while todays titles like Armies of Exigo, Spellforce, etc have the personality of generic cardboard. Dune by Westwood set the ball rolling with great missions, innovative units & interesting base structures. Since then we've just about had an endless cash-in from faceless corporative scum. I'm not hopeful for the future of RTS until monopolising companies like EA are broken up & we have a lot more smaller developer studios churning out innovative & fresh titles (some hope!)
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Posted: Fri, 4th Mar 2005 13:55 Post subject: |
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Warcraft 3 has personality, if you like that type of rpg/rts hybrid.
"Techniclly speaking, Beta-Manboi didnt inject Burberry_Massi with Benz, he injected him with liquid that had air bubbles in it, which caused benz." - House M.D
"Faith without logic is the same as knowledge without understanding; meaningless"
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Posted: Fri, 4th Mar 2005 13:55 Post subject: |
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I like rts were i can command thoushands of units (like Rome total war), cause i like to conquer, but i also like to defend, so it needs to have walls and fortifications (something like AOE and Celtic Kings). For me this 2 are the best rts that exist (ok Rome is great too and for the fans LOTR:BTME it's not so bad either).
I don't like this rts whith remiscents of RPG.
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Baleur
Posts: 2343
Location: South Sweden
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Posted: Fri, 4th Mar 2005 14:01 Post subject: |
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[sYn] wrote: | All I have to say is this:
The Obelisk of Light..
*agree's* |
Omg and i agree with your agreement
The Obelisk Of Light was teh ownzorz!!!!!1one
And another thing, the level design, in most rts its just "nature" that makes up a level, but somehow i can remember every single C&C level, every single one. They rocked. I cant remember any spellforce level (except the huge stair level ^^), or any red alert 2 level (sry but they ment absolutely nothing to me).
And i'm one of the few who actually liked Tiberian Sun & especially the expansion, i dunno, it had the C&C feeling, it was updated and more modern in appearance, how could i not like it?
And another thing (yet again lolll), the Tiberian Sun expansion, how many games dare to add such an element to a game such as a new resource that will tear your units apart if traveled upon, PLUS that resource is growing/expanding over completely the entire map?
Even the original C&C had this, but a much more limited extent, but it was a "bold" thing (at least would be concidered bold for todays developers) that just made the game what it is.
And the cutscenes with the tiberium shots and shots of people dieing from intoxication, omg..... Those were the days for a sci-fi dood =))
CPU: Intel Core 2 Duo E6600 RAM: 4gb Kingmax DDR2 800mhz Video: Asus GeForce 250GTS 1gb Sound: Asus Xonar.
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