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 Posted: Sat, 29th Jun 2013 03:19 Post subject: Finally... getting a car? |
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After various times where I thought about buying one, I actually applied for a small loan to actually get one  My mother in law will visit us for 3 months and I want to be able to drive around and show them some stuff instead of waiting for public transportation 
Nothing big, but it should also be able to get me to work and back and not cost too much...
So I compared some stuff, initially wanted to go for a 2007-2008 Astra GTC but I discovered that they use a fiat engine so I took a view at fiat and well.. the Bravo looks great
150PS - 2007 - ~100.000KM - ~6L/100KM for about 6000€
Do you guys think I should go for it? I don't want to have anything less than 120PS but it must be Diesel! Anything else just costs too much...
And here a picture of it from the net so that you don't have to google:
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zipfero
Posts: 8938
Location: White Shaft
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| Posted: Sat, 29th Jun 2013 03:28 Post subject: |
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I'd go for a similarly priced Skoda, Seat or Kia tbh. Better build quality.
Source: family driving Fiat for 25 years.
Also if you have a diesel, its never gonna be fast and you dont need more than 90 PS, tbh.
8 out of 10 dentists prefer zipfero to competing brands(fraich3 and Mutantius)!
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| Posted: Sat, 29th Jun 2013 03:30 Post subject: |
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Yeah, I also had my doubts regarding Fiat, but it seems as if they've drastically improved their build quality. In the biggest german car test magazine they tested the bravo for 3 years and not a single problem. I got the highest grade in build quality for that :O
And Seat, Skoda and Kia from that time look outright hideous  (Got to keep the budget in mind  )
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tonizito
VIP Member
Posts: 51316
Location: Portugal, the shithole of Europe.
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| Posted: Sat, 29th Jun 2013 03:32 Post subject: |
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Uh-oh, you should have chosen the Panda instead.
According to ixigario it's the "least bad" among them.
Mine still works perfectly after 3 years, although I can never get an accurate oil reading (either that or the oil level was ALWAYS above the maximum level from the beginning and is still there  ).
BTW... why does it have to be >=120 PS? 
| boundle (thoughts on cracking AITD) wrote: | | i guess thouth if without a legit key the installation was rolling back we are all fucking then |
Last edited by tonizito on Sat, 29th Jun 2013 03:33; edited 1 time in total
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zipfero
Posts: 8938
Location: White Shaft
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| Posted: Sat, 29th Jun 2013 03:32 Post subject: |
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| Posted: Sat, 29th Jun 2013 03:38 Post subject: |
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Thanks
@Toni: Well I'm fed up with driving 70-80PS cars where you can't overtake anything and that go through waaaay too much gasoline if you try to push them beyond 120 -_-'
The 16V Fiat engines seem to be quite good in that regard + they have a 6th gear, so if I drive chilly, they'll just drink around 5 litre of diesel, which is also quite cheaper than gasoline!
Actually I'd prefer the 120PS 1.6 16V because it's even better in that regard but that is only in the 2008+ models and those cost 1000+ extra and I don't have that money right now
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ixigia
[Moderator] Consigliere
Posts: 65037
Location: Italy
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| Posted: Sat, 29th Jun 2013 03:59 Post subject: |
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With all the great German cars that you have there you went for a FIAT, Pumpy wtf
Just kidding, the engine is indeed pretty great, same for handling and the design (surprisingly modern for a Fiat xD). The comfort and quality of accessories/materials might be less amazing and kinda cheap-ish, but for that price it's definitely not a bad deal .
Reliability isn't Fiat's strongest point, but that varies from car to car so I wouldn't worry too much. They have improved with these relatively new models with new investments *knocks on wood*. I say go for it (and congrats of course!)
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zipfero
Posts: 8938
Location: White Shaft
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| Posted: Sat, 29th Jun 2013 04:14 Post subject: |
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ixigia
[Moderator] Consigliere
Posts: 65037
Location: Italy
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| Posted: Sat, 29th Jun 2013 04:38 Post subject: |
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| zipfero wrote: | | ixigia wrote: | With all the great German cars that you have there you went for a FIAT, Pumpy wtf
Just kidding, the engine is indeed pretty great, same for handling and the design (surprisingly modern for a Fiat xD). The comfort and quality of accessories/materials might be less amazing and kinda cheap-ish, but for that price it's definitely not a bad deal .
Reliability isn't Fiat's strongest point, but that varies from car to car so I wouldn't worry too much. They have improved with these relatively new models with new investments *knocks on wood*. I say go for it (and congrats of course!) |
Forgot about the handling. Still some of the best cars I have driven. They are just great on the road. When they are working  |
Yup!
Quality assurance has never been their strongest point xD. Though usually even in the worst scenario the problems are never serious and can be easily fixed (still annoying). At least they're trying to improve design and performance wise, I mean it wasn't hard if you think at the multipla  |
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| Posted: Sat, 29th Jun 2013 04:49 Post subject: |
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Rergarding german cars:
The new opel astra for example looks great but I'd have to shell out 10.000 for it.
Or for a ~good~ 320d I'd also need to pay at least 13.000...
And Golfs are not an option, my wife finds them way too boring
Well, now I just need to wait for the result of my loan application and then I'll start to contact the sellers
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deelix
PDIP Member
Posts: 32062
Location: Norway
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couleur
[Moderator] Janitor
Posts: 14259
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| Posted: Sat, 29th Jun 2013 11:28 Post subject: |
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Edit: Oh forget my post. I see you only want to spend about 6.000€
edit 2: On more piece of advice: at about 100.000km, many diesels need a new "toothed belt", Zahnriemen. So always ask if the car has already had its replacement! The change can cost from 1000€ up, depending on the brand and the difficulty level. So always ask about that before buying.
"Enlightenment is man's emergence from his self-imposed nonage. Nonage is the inability to use one's own understanding without another's guidance. This nonage is self-imposed if its cause lies not in lack of understanding but in indecision and lack of courage to use one's own mind without another's guidance. Dare to know! (Sapere aude.) "Have the courage to use your own understanding," is therefore the motto of the enlightenment."
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| Posted: Sat, 29th Jun 2013 12:01 Post subject: |
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I love the interior of new astra My uncle has one, and it's on naturl gas, so it's cheaper.
"Quantum mechanics is actually, contrary to it's reputation, unbeliveably simple, once you take the physics out."
Scott Aaronson | chiv wrote: | | thats true you know. newton didnt discover gravity. the apple told him about it, and then he killed it. the core was never found. |
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Werelds
Special Little Man
Posts: 15098
Location: 0100111001001100
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| Posted: Sat, 29th Jun 2013 12:37 Post subject: |
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Bravo is still Fiat, so I wouldn't trust it for shit - I'm sorry, but every Fiat and Alfa any of my relatives or friends have bought have turned out crap. Some of the older models are good, but all the newer ones are terrible and only interesting if you can get them on a business lease w/ maintenance included
Cee'd isn't bad to look at either. It's a little boring, but solid. And you should be able to find one in your price range. It actually drives remarkably well, I didn't expect it to when I drove one. Much better than Hyundahahahahai's i-series cars at least, I've driven first-gen i20 + i30 + the new i30 and they all feel equally shit.
Sadly though Pumpy, the best diesel engines are still the VAG ones and, believe it or not, PSA's HDi for like a decade or so now. Stay away from Ford, their diesels were so bad that they now use PSA's; Volvo also uses them in most of theirs (and the Freelander has a PSA diesel in it as well). Particularly the 2.0 HDi is very common, in your case you'll want one of the 2.0 16V ones though. There's one with 100 KW and one with 120 KW (fuck PS/BHP etc, KW is the only one to easily convert to/from ).
VAG I don't think I need to explain. Sadly the best of them all is no longer made nor used anymore, think the most recent use of it was the Ibiza Mk3 and that went out of production in '09. VAG's 1.9 TDI, fucking indestructible
All that said, is the Bravo the size of car you're looking for? The price above seems a little high to me btw. I can find ones with less kilometers on the clock and in some cases even from 2008 for about 1000-1500 more here. Cars are a bit cheaper in Germany than they are here, so 6 grand seems a little high to me.
Edit: yes, 6 grand is too much for that it (by German standards anyway) seems. Quick search turned up with this: http://www.autoscout24.de/DetailsGTM.aspx?id=234166550&cd=635072258760000000&asrc=fa%7cfs - 60k, 2008, 6900 EUR. Same engine
Cars are an easy 25% cheaper in Germany than here btw. 40% of what we pay on a car goes to the government; wish it was easier to import from Germany, because I'd buy over there :/
What costs 30 grand here you can usually get for 22-23 in Germany (talking new cars now).
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| Posted: Sat, 29th Jun 2013 12:47 Post subject: |
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It's 1000 euro more expensive and it's not a german car (says it's from the EU). Sorry, but I don't want a fiat, that has been crashed in the czech, repaired in poland and sold here as "everything allright! really  " :/
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Werelds
Special Little Man
Posts: 15098
Location: 0100111001001100
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| Posted: Sat, 29th Jun 2013 12:58 Post subject: |
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Ah missed that
6 grand still seems a little high though, although I imagine you can still knock some off that
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Stige
Posts: 3544
Location: Finland
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| Posted: Sat, 29th Jun 2013 13:48 Post subject: |
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Mother of god this thread O_O
Must resist the urge...
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| Posted: Sat, 29th Jun 2013 14:39 Post subject: |
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I used to work as a mechanic for Fix It Again Tomorrow. I probably wouldn't buy one tbh.
Ryzen 5 5600, ASUS ROG STRIX B550-F GAMING WIFI II, Corsair Vengeance RGB RT 32GB 3600MHz C16, Zotac RTX 3060 Ti, Corsair RMx Series RM750x. AOC AGON AG324UX - 4K 144Hz 1ms GTG IPS FreeSync KVM
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Werelds
Special Little Man
Posts: 15098
Location: 0100111001001100
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| Posted: Sat, 29th Jun 2013 15:50 Post subject: |
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| Newty182 wrote: | | Fix It Again Tomorrow |
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| Posted: Sat, 29th Jun 2013 16:05 Post subject: |
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I'm driving a 2007 VW Polo 1.9 TDI 101HP
 Spoiler: | not mine
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Just got back from a trip to check out a motor bike - 450km, highway - 150 at times 180km/h - 5.9/100 by the on board computer, which is 1/2 of my tank - worth 35eur.
And this is stock. Talk about small cars not having power to overtake.. At full gas it will make 210km/h or 200 by GPS and the moment mileage will be 12/100.
In my countries a car under 74kW and with a katalyst gets -80% off it's tax, so my yearly tax in this car is a whooping 20eur.
Also by just chip tuning it will make 130HP.
I highly recommend this 1.9 TDI PD engine. You can find it 101HP or 130HP on Polo, Golf, Passat, Ibiza, Leon, e.t.c.
| Lutzifer wrote: | | and yes, mine is only average |
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| Posted: Sat, 29th Jun 2013 18:14 Post subject: |
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| Werelds wrote: | | Newty182 wrote: | | Fix It Again Tomorrow |
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Fehler in allen Teilen |
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LeoNatan
☢ NFOHump Despot ☢
Posts: 73194
Location: Ramat Gan, Israel 🇮🇱
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| Posted: Sat, 29th Jun 2013 18:38 Post subject: |
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Guys, enough with the cheap shits. Just get a Gallardo or 458 Italia. They are pretty cheap these days.
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Stige
Posts: 3544
Location: Finland
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| Posted: Sat, 29th Jun 2013 18:42 Post subject: |
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Why does everyone and their mom think a newer car is a better idea?
New cars:
- Break down often
- Expensive repairs / Can't repair them yourself without fully equipped garage, special tools and laptops
- Expensive, in every way here atleast, insurance, loans, etc
If you buy any car from -85 to -95 then you are pretty much quaranteed to 1. cheap parts 2. easy repairs which you can do yourself 3. much less break expensive breakdowns because back then cars were still manufactured properly, not like today when a car is not supposed to be around for more than 10 years...
Older cars also have cheaper insurance around here.
The less stuff there is electric in a car then less things there are that are prone to go wrong. And even if shit goes wrong, you can actually mend it yourself because everything isn't controlled by a computer.
A 500€ car in here won't cost me as much in 2 years as some 2005+ car you bought with a loan would, you would be paying more in a month on the loan alone than I would ever spend on that 500€ car on petrol.
TL;DR New cars are shit, buy old ones.
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| Posted: Sat, 29th Jun 2013 18:44 Post subject: |
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Yeah Pumpy! Get one of these bad boys
"Quantum mechanics is actually, contrary to it's reputation, unbeliveably simple, once you take the physics out."
Scott Aaronson | chiv wrote: | | thats true you know. newton didnt discover gravity. the apple told him about it, and then he killed it. the core was never found. |
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tonizito
VIP Member
Posts: 51316
Location: Portugal, the shithole of Europe.
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| Posted: Sat, 29th Jun 2013 19:20 Post subject: |
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| dingo_d wrote: | Yeah Pumpy! Get one of these bad boys
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| boundle (thoughts on cracking AITD) wrote: | | i guess thouth if without a legit key the installation was rolling back we are all fucking then |
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Werelds
Special Little Man
Posts: 15098
Location: 0100111001001100
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| Posted: Sat, 29th Jun 2013 20:56 Post subject: |
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| PumpAction wrote: | | Werelds wrote: | | Newty182 wrote: | | Fix It Again Tomorrow |
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Fehler in allen Teilen |
That one's even better hahahaha
I'll be sure to tell my dad and little brother that one, they'll die laughing |
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| Posted: Sat, 29th Jun 2013 20:57 Post subject: |
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| Stige wrote: | Why does everyone and their mom think a newer car is a better idea?
New cars:
- Break down often
- Expensive repairs / Can't repair them yourself without fully equipped garage, special tools and laptops
- Expensive, in every way here atleast, insurance, loans, etc
If you buy any car from -85 to -95 then you are pretty much quaranteed to 1. cheap parts 2. easy repairs which you can do yourself 3. much less break expensive breakdowns because back then cars were still manufactured properly, not like today when a car is not supposed to be around for more than 10 years...
Older cars also have cheaper insurance around here.
The less stuff there is electric in a car then less things there are that are prone to go wrong. And even if shit goes wrong, you can actually mend it yourself because everything isn't controlled by a computer.
A 500€ car in here won't cost me as much in 2 years as some 2005+ car you bought with a loan would, you would be paying more in a month on the loan alone than I would ever spend on that 500€ car on petrol.
TL;DR New cars are shit, buy old ones. |
My 7 year old car, in it's whole history, my dad being the first owner, has the following parts changed out of guarantee:
front break pads
front suspension rear bushes
lights switch
alternator's regulator
headlight bulbs
wipers (on the 6-th year LOL, the old ones are still usable)
battery (after 6 years, sold it for 25eur to a friend of mine - his car is still using it for 1 year already)
Before that, I was driving a 1992 socialist mobile. Yes parts are cheap. Yes you mostly can fit them yourself, or fix using duct tape. BUT those parts are cheap knockoffs. They will stay on for 2-3 months mostly.
| Spoiler: | |
And that car was too bought as new from my dad - I would still drive it, but there were no more original parts - I had a part for the front suspension, where the lead on the groove was 1mm too short for the bolt to tighten securely, so I had to mill the part in order to be able to use it. And it was an expensive 40eur knockoff, not a cheap 20eur one.
And this goes on for all the parts that break.. 20eur here, 10 eur there, 40eur for that, 5eur for this.. at the end of the year you give 500eur in parts and repairs for a car that is worth 400eur.. and you're never really sure if it will start in the morning, or get you where you're going..
It's the same for all cars - buy cheap parts for 50eur 3 times a year, or 1 part for 150eur that lasts 3 years.
But since the car is old - there are no more original replacement parts being made from the manufacturer..
| Lutzifer wrote: | | and yes, mine is only average |
Last edited by StrEagle on Sat, 29th Jun 2013 21:27; edited 1 time in total |
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Werelds
Special Little Man
Posts: 15098
Location: 0100111001001100
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| Posted: Sat, 29th Jun 2013 21:06 Post subject: |
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True to some extent, but it depends on the make. Most Japanese cars, whether you like them or not, are still easy and cheap to fix. Something like VW is not particularly easy to fix, but shit rarely breaks with them.
If I look at Peugeot for example, my previous 206 had zero issues (one of the reasons it's so popular) - that was manufactured from '98 to '10 and was pretty much all-mechanical/-hydraulical throughout its lifespan. Parts for it are pretty cheap and that still holds true for their newer cars. That's because for a large part they rely on relatively standard stuff; exhausts for example are Bosch for most of their models and those are extremely easy to get. I had the entire exhaust system replaced on my 206 (previous owner did some questionable welding  ); could've done it myself if I had the space to jack the car up properly, but I didn't. Even with material and labour costs combined were still only 400 EUR; majority being labour costs.
Things like replacing the exhaust system you need to have the space for, regardless of how old or new your car is.
And not all older cars are easy to get parts for. Plus you do need to have the skills + interest to actually do the work to begin with, not everyone does
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