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 Posted: Tue, 5th Nov 2013 13:40 Post subject: Multi layer marketing, anyone ? |
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does anyone here have any experience with MLM ?
My brother had his brain washed completely and I don't know what to think about it.
He had two GREAT job opportunities and he turned both of them down because he said he wants to do mlm.
There's no way he'll listen to anyone. But I'm curious if you've had any experience.
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Saner
Posts: 6877
Location: Uk
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| Posted: Tue, 5th Nov 2013 13:43 Post subject: |
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tell your brother if he can get ten of his friends to send me £500 each he can have a free Xbox One and PS4, and if they can get ten of there friends to send me another £500 each they can have one too.
I presume its this ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pyramid_selling#Connection_to_multi-level_marketing ) that you are talking about.
btw my scheme is legit, saner (at) gmx . com is my paypal.
| ragnarus wrote: |
I saw things like that in here and in other "woman problems" topics so...... Am I the only one that thinks some authorities needs to be alerted about Saner and him possibly being a rapist and/or kidnapper ? |
Saner is not being serious. Unless its the subject of Santa!
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Morphineus
VIP Member
Posts: 24883
Location: Sweden
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| Posted: Tue, 5th Nov 2013 14:02 Post subject: |
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Tell him he's an idiot and that he'd better start studying economics because he doesn't have a clue 
And if it's not obvious... He'll have even less security/benefits than a normal job and people already bitch about the lack of security there.
Last edited by Morphineus on Tue, 5th Nov 2013 14:27; edited 1 time in total
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RatKing
Posts: 1212
Location: Nondescript cave in the land of the polar bears, Finland
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| Posted: Tue, 5th Nov 2013 14:18 Post subject: |
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My brother is friends with the prince of Nigeria. 
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zmed
Posts: 9234
Location: Orbanistan
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| Posted: Tue, 5th Nov 2013 14:22 Post subject: |
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Ask him if he'd provide some figures on his earnings. I can 90% guarantee that he's either losing money or at best barely making anything.
Why 90%? That's the basic threshold where people lose money in an average MLM scam. The 10% is where the money is made, but barely, with a fraction of a percent that actually has a good living off it.
So again, ask him about his yearly income and if HIS OWN numbers are not convincing, he'll be a hard nut to crack.
There's been a recent study how ideology will distort even the understanding of completely cold-hard-fact figures. If he's so deep into it that these simple to understand things aren't convincing, there's nothing you can do other than subtly steering him towards more critical thinking.
Don't go against his cherished sacred cow outright, don't send him anti-MLM articles or such. Try to steer him towards making the discovery himself. People are much more inclined to give up false ideas if they themselves come to the realization instead of being told that they are wrong.
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| Posted: Tue, 5th Nov 2013 14:30 Post subject: |
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| zmed wrote: | Ask him if he'd provide some figures on his earnings. I can 90% guarantee that he's either losing money or at best barely making anything.
Why 90%? That's the basic threshold where people lose money in an average MLM scam. The 10% is where the money is made, but barely, with a fraction of a percent that actually has a good living off it.
So again, ask him about his yearly income and if HIS OWN numbers are not convincing, he'll be a hard nut to crack.
There's been a recent study how ideology will distort even the understanding of completely cold-hard-fact figures. If he's so deep into it that these simple to understand things aren't convincing, there's nothing you can do other than subtly steering him towards more critical thinking.
Don't go against his cherished sacred cow outright. Try to steer him towards making the discovery himself. People are much more inclined to give up false ideas if they themselves come to the realization instead of being told that they are wrong. |
wow, that's good advice  Thanks.
But he won't listen. When he has doubts he calls his "leader" who earns 15 000 zl a month and drives a mercedes, and they mock us people that "work full time jobs like sheep". The first thing after having a fight with his girlfriend(about MLM being a scam) he called his "leader" to tell him what she said and you know... have fun.
When I told him that he may be recruited by the firm to lie he laughed at my face because he's his mentor and a friend.
He's been "working" for 2 months now and he "earned" 300 zł which is like 100$ in October. And he probably "invested" something over 150 zł counting : bus tickets, telephone calls, products he bought (we're using them at home), gas etc.
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RatKing
Posts: 1212
Location: Nondescript cave in the land of the polar bears, Finland
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| Posted: Tue, 5th Nov 2013 14:35 Post subject: |
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| bloodian wrote: | | When he has doubts he calls his "leader" who earns 15 000 zl a month and drives a mercedes, and they mock us people that "work full time jobs like sheep". The first thing after having a fight with his girlfriend(about MLM being a scam) he called his "leader" to tell him what she said and you know... have fun. |
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zmed
Posts: 9234
Location: Orbanistan
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| Posted: Tue, 5th Nov 2013 14:43 Post subject: |
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Yeah, it's common to use religious cult tactics in these schemes. Don't listen to detractors, don't watch the news, don't read anti-MLM material, sever connections with people if they criticize the scheme, rely on the authority figure for everything, etc. Quite insidious.
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| Posted: Tue, 5th Nov 2013 17:45 Post subject: |
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what a coincidence. Went to visit one of my friends Sunday afternoon, and he told me he had been recruited for this crap. He explained, or at least tried too, but it just sounded like something way too good to be true. He was losing money, and have no clue when he will earn anything. But what made me flip was that he's basically quit his job for this. Shouted and talked seriously to him, but he wouldn't listen to anything. He was seeing money with his eyes.
"Collgate was actually interested in how to make something something that out toothpaste product has" Bullshit corporation lie to heighten morale, but these idiots gobble down every cock they get.
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fisk
Posts: 9145
Location: Von Oben
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| Posted: Tue, 5th Nov 2013 18:17 Post subject: |
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Buzzwords
aka
Bullfuckingshit
Yes, yes I'm back.
Somewhat.
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DXWarlock
VIP Member
Posts: 11549
Location: Florida, USA
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| Posted: Tue, 5th Nov 2013 18:43 Post subject: |
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How do people get sucked into these?
I mean I can understand the 'it takes money to make money" ideal of starting a business and investing in start up. But they aren't starting a business. They are working for someone else. I mean any job that requires you to spend money, on crap they themselves sell to you, to get started..is fishy. Day one and your out money, and they gained it..from you.
How do you get so tricked, that you goto a job, and come out with less than before you did work, and WANT to stay?
How do you work a month, lose money working for someone else, while they make money..and go "yea this looks promising..let me stick with it". How can they not see the ones encouraging them to 'stay with it' are only doing so because they NEED them losing money to make theirs.
I cant see it, someone offer me a job, showing how much they make, but I spend more than I make first paycheck? nope. sorry I'm out good luck on your own, I work to make money..not 'hopefully one day make money'.
-We don't control what happens to us in life, but we control how we respond to what happens in life.
-Hard times create strong men, strong men create good times, good times create weak men, and weak men create hard times. -G. Michael Hopf
Disclaimer: Post made by me are of my own creation. A delusional mind relayed in text form.
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Morphineus
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Posts: 24883
Location: Sweden
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| Posted: Tue, 5th Nov 2013 18:54 Post subject: |
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A dealer or a prostitute gets more return from being exploited
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RatKing
Posts: 1212
Location: Nondescript cave in the land of the polar bears, Finland
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| Posted: Tue, 5th Nov 2013 19:15 Post subject: |
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The stupidity makes my thinky-box hurty.
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| Posted: Tue, 5th Nov 2013 19:41 Post subject: |
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| DXWarlock wrote: | How do people get sucked into these?
I mean I can understand the 'it takes money to make money" ideal of starting a business and investing in start up. But they aren't starting a business. They are working for someone else. I mean any job that requires you to spend money, on crap they themselves sell to you, to get started..is fishy. Day one and your out money, and they gained it..from you.
How do you get so tricked, that you goto a job, and come out with less than before you did work, and WANT to stay?
How do you work a month, lose money working for someone else, while they make money..and go "yea this looks promising..let me stick with it". How can they not see the ones encouraging them to 'stay with it' are only doing so because they NEED them losing money to make theirs.
I cant see it, someone offer me a job, showing how much they make, but I spend more than I make first paycheck? nope. sorry I'm out good luck on your own, I work to make money..not 'hopefully one day make money'. |
They reprogrammed my brother that he believes many things:
- It's 99% sure he'll make serious money, he just needs to invest time.
- Hey ! It's like he's studying ! He's always using this argument: "How long did it take you to study to find a job" ( i study IT). He's learning a lot and he told me that they've shown him "statistics" that show that people who do MLM are highly demanded on the market !
- Everyone is bad, pesimistic, non-believer.
- people who agree to work full-time do it because the government says it's standard. They're sheep and doing what they're told. In MLM you have "passive income" and you can drive around the world and fuck bitches in your leased mercedes.
In arguments he ALWAYS uses the same arguments hey taught him.
fucked up. I think that it is possible to make SOME money with it, not huge money but leaving jobs, and mocking family - that's just brainwashing.
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DXWarlock
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Posts: 11549
Location: Florida, USA
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| Posted: Tue, 5th Nov 2013 20:04 Post subject: |
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Just ask him about the statistics, are they provided by the same people trying to hire him? If anything him realizing the only statistics hes been shown, are the ones made by the people wanting it to look good. might give him a light bulb over his head.
Ask him if he wants unbiased statistics, find some outside of the ones that was handpicked to show him by the very same company hiring him. like:
http://ftc.gov/os/comments/bizoppstaffreport/00008-57281.pdf
quotes about that very thing from it:
Caution: Don't accept an MLM’s statistic for the total number of "active" distributors or participants as the base used for calculating what percentage of participants succeeded in rising to the various levels. Again, if the "successful" participants who have been with the MLM for ten years are counted, then every person who signed on with the program during that same ten-year time period. should be counted in calculating success rates - whether they are active, inactive, or terminated.
If someone tries to recruit you into an MLM, you can save yourself the trouble of researching the MLM and doing all this debugging and calculating by asking the person who is recruiting you to show you his tax returns for the past year. Then ask that others he has recruited in the past couple of years show their tax returns – or some proof that they have earned the promised rewards (less expenses). Be prepared for some blank stares and evasive answers.
Or the average cumulative total of people that lose money over a wide range of MLM combined:
Approx. % of all partic’s who lost money: 99.6% average (of everyone of the charts for 30 MLM businesses studied).
And making a living wage off of it, its 99.97% that didn't..so 0.03% of people doing it make living income wages.
And sure he may be "but Im going to work my way up!" line of thought..but so was the other 99.97% of people. he has technically the same chance of working far enough up to make a living wage, as he does of winning the whole pot on a 4 digit lottery ticket.
And ask him 'how is studying in a field that covers an entire range of generally respected knowledge that provides job opportunities at countless companies(learning IT) the same as learning skills that only work for the single company teaching them to you".
Paying for an education, and paying a company to show you how to do the work they want of you, isn't the same thing.
He's basically paying them, to learn how to make money for THEM.
-We don't control what happens to us in life, but we control how we respond to what happens in life.
-Hard times create strong men, strong men create good times, good times create weak men, and weak men create hard times. -G. Michael Hopf
Disclaimer: Post made by me are of my own creation. A delusional mind relayed in text form.
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| Posted: Tue, 5th Nov 2013 20:27 Post subject: |
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Tell him he can make a fortune selling kirby vaccum cleaners instead.
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| Posted: Tue, 5th Nov 2013 22:54 Post subject: |
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Your brother needs severe intervention. I'd invite him over, as well as the entire family and GF and everyone he still has any emotional attachment to.
The problem is twofold:
Your brother is a lazy cunt, who wants to get rich fast.
Your brother is easily manipulated.
I'll tell you upfront, no arguments will work. Arguments can't work, that's why cults are so prevalent. You have to put serious emotional pressure on him. When you do this intervention, do not let him call his boss. Be very determined. Make your mother and his GF cry. You will not convince him with arguments, I'd bet a lot of cash on that.
Either this, or let him try it, and bum out, but then you'll have to deal with his depression.
Ask only emotional questions, like: who do you think cares about you in reality? Us, your family, who love you no matter what, or his boss, who only cares if you make a good investment. Etc ...
------
Other thing:
I was once invited to one of these meetings by my friend. I didn't want to go, but my friend would have gone either way (we were fresh off from college). So we went. The guy starts the usual bullshit routine. There was us and a couple there. So, I see my friend acting all interested, and I got really pissed, so I started arguing with the guy, calling out his bullshit, calling him a liar, and he couldn't back up his statements (they never can). So he called security, two puffed up guys appeared from the adjacent room, threw me out (they didn't beat me). All other participants left willingly. Two or three years later the guy lands in jail btw - unrelated case: tax cheating. Guess it wasn't profitable afterall )
Anyway - this is their true face. Thought I would share. Of course this was Romania.
Last edited by Radicalus on Tue, 5th Nov 2013 22:55; edited 1 time in total
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| Posted: Tue, 5th Nov 2013 22:55 Post subject: |
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I actually know a person who earns a lot doing MLM, but he has literally thousands people working for that ( you know, recruit at least 3 people, groom them, let them recruit another 3 and so on, live off their profits ). Most people will never get to that point though. Starting your own business has a better chance of success.
It's not really a pyramid scheme, but it's close enough and definitely should be avoided.
@bloodian, who recruited him? FM Group? They do like to show off their Mercedes and have a fairly good strategy. The brainwashing one I mean Had a female colleague who no longer speaks to me, because I didn't want to sign up. Calls me an "empty ship" or somesuch.
Last edited by Bendi on Tue, 5th Nov 2013 22:56; edited 1 time in total
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| Posted: Tue, 5th Nov 2013 22:56 Post subject: |
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Bendi, by definition it is a pyramid scheme. Even in theory, not only in practice.
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spankie
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zmed
Posts: 9234
Location: Orbanistan
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| Posted: Tue, 5th Nov 2013 23:13 Post subject: |
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I once was also approached. Was looking for work and met an old high school friend, who said he has some opportunities I might be interested in. So I went, listened to the bullshit and left, never looking back. To make the whole thing even more insulting was that the "product" was a catalog filled with textbook examples of the biggest alternative-medicine bullshit you can think of. Homeopathic sugar pills, cure-all treatments, all topped off with the nauseating they-just-want-to-keep-everyone-sick line. I was surprised I didn't shout at the bitch who was doing the speech and left rather calmly, most likely because I liked my old friend and felt sorry for him. Good thing is that he only seem to have been doing it on the sides with having an actual job, so he wasn't in any immediate financial danger.
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| Posted: Tue, 5th Nov 2013 23:19 Post subject: |
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Yeah, it's FM Group.
Well, it's not FM Group directly. I don't know and don't give a shit how it works but there's this group called Lider Team and they always say "WE'RE NOT FMGROUP!" but... yeah.. they're fm group
I have to admit that their perfumes are pretty good + some of the cleaning products are awesome too. But I think it's logical it wouldn't last too long if it was complete shit.
| Radicalus wrote: | Your brother needs severe intervention. I'd invite him over, as well as the entire family and GF and everyone he still has any emotional attachment to.
The problem is twofold:
Your brother is a lazy cunt, who wants to get rich fast.
Your brother is easily manipulated.
I'll tell you upfront, no arguments will work. Arguments can't work, that's why cults are so prevalent. You have to put serious emotional pressure on him. When you do this intervention, do not let him call his boss. Be very determined. Make your mother and his GF cry. You will not convince him with arguments, I'd bet a lot of cash on that.
Either this, or let him try it, and bum out, but then you'll have to deal with his depression.
Ask only emotional questions, like: who do you think cares about you in reality? Us, your family, who love you no matter what, or his boss, who only cares if you make a good investment. Etc ...
------
Other thing:
I was once invited to one of these meetings by my friend. I didn't want to go, but my friend would have gone either way (we were fresh off from college). So we went. The guy starts the usual bullshit routine. There was us and a couple there. So, I see my friend acting all interested, and I got really pissed, so I started arguing with the guy, calling out his bullshit, calling him a liar, and he couldn't back up his statements (they never can). So he called security, two puffed up guys appeared from the adjacent room, threw me out (they didn't beat me). All other participants left willingly. Two or three years later the guy lands in jail btw - unrelated case: tax cheating. Guess it wasn't profitable afterall )
Anyway - this is their true face. Thought I would share. Of course this was Romania. |
He's fairly young (20 years old)
The problem is that:
- He doesn't really talk with our father anymore. He was always kind of an egoist.
Plus my dad told him that it's bullshit and he doesn't support that at all. So now, our dad, who was always a VERY big influence (still is, at least for me) is almost a no one to my brother.
- Mom just doesn't give a shit. She probably doesn't want to end up like dad so she's neutral. She pays for food etc. but doesn't give him any money. I've tried to change her mind by all the links + opinions (stated here and on internet), but she says he needs to find himself out that it wont lead him anywhere, like you said.
He has a health insurance because my mother works blabla i don't know how it works.
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