HOLY FUCK. I can now preoder PS4 from a site in Norway for 805€
Fuck this shit, they can keep it.
None of the retailer's know the final cost's of the console, they just throwing price's out there as they have the right to change them at a later date.
well, i most certainly hope it won't reach even close to that price. It's no secret that Norway has fucking ridiculous prices, but a price that high would be suicide.
Pretty great, Physx is awesome but Nvidia's idiotic firm grasp on it has prevented widespread use.. Maybe we'll finally see it in more games in the future.
What's so awesome about PhysX? It's not as if Nvidia's ever going to rewrite it for OpenCL and Havok already has been. Havok does everything PhysX does (and then some) but is not limited to just a few gimmicky things on the GPU (most of PhysX can only run on the CPU). Heck, even Bullet runs via OpenCL and does *actual* physics.
Maybe Havok is better and more adaptable than Physx in theory and some demos but so far from what I've seen during actual gameplay Physx has amazed me more. It certainly created some nice memories, and its hard to find any games without physx that have such nice cloth physics and high amount of small debris. Next, I want to see soft body physics especially for car destruction, no matter what physics engine. Very exciting.
Huh, didn't they display the Havok as physics demo for the PS4?
Or do they just mean that a game can either use Havok or PhysX now on PS4, while before it would had only been Havok?
Plus havok can do nice clothing aswell
Proud member of Frustrated Association of International Losers Failing Against the Gifted and Superior (F.A.I.L.F.A.G.S)
Maybe Havok is better and more adaptable than Physx in theory and some demos but so far from what I've seen during actual gameplay Physx has amazed me more. It certainly created some nice memories, and its hard to find any games without physx that have such nice cloth physics and high amount of small debris. Next, I want to see soft body physics especially for car destruction, no matter what physics engine. Very exciting.
What nice memories? You only remember it because whenever PhysX is used, Nvidia require advertising it like hell and a big-ass banner. I think you really underestimate just how widely used Havok is, much more so than PhysX. The parts of PhysX that you remember are exactly the parts that have got fuckall to do with physics. All the games that actually have good and realistic physics use Havok.
The extravagant, ridiculous particles as seen in Alice or Mafia 2 - which fit in Alice, but made Mafia 2 look like a fucking cartoon game, nothing realistic about it so I don't know why you like it. Cloth simulation, which looks good but has never been used to an extent where it would "create memories" (try playing with and without in M2, you'll only notice it if you look for it). Fluid simulation, which has only ever been used properly once, in Cryostasis.
Those are pretty much the only parts of it that run on the GPU as well, everything else runs on the CPU - and badly as well before PhysX 3.0 (which still has not been used in any game AFAIK) because Nvidia spent about 5 minutes working on PhysX since acquiring Ageia. Batman's use of PhysX is mostly CPU based, such as the volumetric fog.
And worst of it all? It locks out AMD users in a lot of cases or it fucks up performance for them, even though Havok is capable of doing all of the above more efficiently. Red Faction: Guerrilla still has much more interesting and impressive physics than any PhysX piece of shit. Now take a guess what that runs on?
The only good thing that can come from this is that Nvidia finally actively work on PhysX, but for PC gamers it still is not a good thing, because CUDA isn't going anywhere.
Disclaimer: I currently have Nvidia, have had twice as many Nvidia as AMD cards in the past 15 years, had a top of the line Nvidia GPU when PhysX first came to us and I still think it's a fucking piece of shit that needs to die ASAP to make room for better alternatives.
I don't get it, games rarely use more then 2 cores these days, why not use that extra core that ain't being used for physics calculations, SHOULD be easy doable right?
Proud member of Frustrated Association of International Losers Failing Against the Gifted and Superior (F.A.I.L.F.A.G.S)
Maybe Havok is better and more adaptable than Physx in theory and some demos but so far from what I've seen during actual gameplay Physx has amazed me more. It certainly created some nice memories, and its hard to find any games without physx that have such nice cloth physics and high amount of small debris. Next, I want to see soft body physics especially for car destruction, no matter what physics engine. Very exciting.
What nice memories? You only remember it because whenever PhysX is used, Nvidia require advertising it like hell and a big-ass banner. I think you really underestimate just how widely used Havok is, much more so than PhysX. The parts of PhysX that you remember are exactly the parts that have got fuckall to do with physics. All the games that actually have good and realistic physics use Havok.
The extravagant, ridiculous particles as seen in Alice or Mafia 2 - which fit in Alice, but made Mafia 2 look like a fucking cartoon game, nothing realistic about it so I don't know why you like it. Cloth simulation, which looks good but has never been used to an extent where it would "create memories" (try playing with and without in M2, you'll only notice it if you look for it). Fluid simulation, which has only ever been used properly once, in Cryostasis.
Those are pretty much the only parts of it that run on the GPU as well, everything else runs on the CPU - and badly as well before PhysX 3.0 (which still has not been used in any game AFAIK) because Nvidia spent about 5 minutes working on PhysX since acquiring Ageia. Batman's use of PhysX is mostly CPU based, such as the volumetric fog.
And worst of it all? It locks out AMD users in a lot of cases or it fucks up performance for them, even though Havok is capable of doing all of the above more efficiently. Red Faction: Guerrilla still has much more interesting and impressive physics than any PhysX piece of shit. Now take a guess what that runs on?
[/size]
Yeah true, because Physx is mainly a gimmick and about details while engines like Havok or Euphoria bring large scale physics that have a big impact on the gameplay. That doesnt mean physx is bad or unspectacular. It was my mistake making a sentence like that, because what I meant earlier were smaller scale massive amount of debris physics only. I spent a lot of time in Alice just vaporizing the chessboards and randomly hitting the ground, watching her hair, loved the "cartoony" destruction in Mafia 2, messing up rugs in Arkham City. Borderlands 2 massive particle explosions, all of Cryostasis (which I absolutely loved), Metro 2033 I could go on and on. Batman ran like shit on my old rig but still I cranked up Physx to the max and played that stutterfest anyways.
There is also an older puzzle game where you roll a ball through obsctable courses which has very good cloth physics. So much for memories.
The point I agree with is the discrimination of AMD users and with the current developments this may soon be a thing of the past.
Why am I even debating this? I'm completely neutral towards any physics engine, all I care about is getting better physics for everyone, no matter which engine is used.
Why am I even debating this? I'm completely neutral towards any physics engine, all I care about is getting better physics for everyone, no matter which engine is used.
Which is exactly my point. And better physics are not possible with PhysX, because it quite simply lacks a lot of things Havok and even Bullet do have for real physics -note, particle spam is not realistic, I'm talking soft body physics and such-.
Literally every single thing you just mentioned can be done in Havok and/or Bullet just fine (Bullet is not that far yet on some fronts). The difference is that when PhysX is used, Nvidia throw money at the developers to put those stupid effects in, whereas when developers choose for themselves, they put in the stuff they want to have in. Something like the particles in Mafia 2 just do not fit the game in any way and for me it takes away from the experience because there's nothing realistic about a 9mm making a concrete pillar explode into 7 million bits and pieces.
I'm all for more physics in game, but not for more PhysX - I want actual, realistic things happening. I want Havok to become the primary physics engine used, because their OpenCL implementation will work across all platforms, regardless of what brand GPU or console (next-gen anyway) you have. And while the GPU accelerated bits most likely won't be as fast as some parts of PhysX (because CUDA is a proprietary standard and as such can do some things which aren't possible via OpenCL), all the other bits will be faster.
Take AMD's TressFX for example, or FXAA/MLAA/SMAA. Those are the technologies I give a shit about (well, not so much the vaseline filters, but you get the idea ), because they're good for all of us. PhysX can go die a quick death because it is utterly useless to gamers in general, it only caters to the Nvidia GPU users. Even if it comes to the PS4, it still won't force Nvidia to improve their CPU side further or to make it run equally well for everyone.
Then I hope in the future we will see more universal physics based on an open engine that incorporates everything from large structure integrities, ragdoll, soft body, car physics and down to smaller scales, particles and debris etc.
I know of no other games that use the kinds of physics that physx has used and so its impossible to relate to any other engine. Now TressFX is the first time I've seen hair physics outside of physx so it may be a step in the right direction.
Then I hope in the future we will see more universal physics based on an open engine that incorporates everything from large structure integrities, ragdoll, soft body, car physics and down to smaller scales, particles and debris etc.
I know of no other games that use the kinds of physics that physx has used and so its impossible to relate to any other engine. Now TressFX is the first time I've seen hair physics outside of physx so it may be a step in the right direction.
Totally agree, it would be friggn amazing. I have my doubts we will see something like that very soon tho :/
I know of no other games that use the kinds of physics that physx has used and so its impossible to relate to any other engine.
Uh...what?
Seriously, are you just not reading what I wrote or what's going on here?
The only thing PhysX does that you have not seen in other engines/games are probably the fluid simulations. Cloth has been done with Havok plenty of times (MK + HR to name two console games). Ragdolls were around long before PhysX and I don't think any serious big title uses PhysX for them, all Havok. A LOT of games use Havok for their ragdolls and just animations in general; Alan Wake for example is almost all Havok. Particles have also been done before, volumetric fog for in PhysX doesn't work for shit anyway
Meanwhile, Havok has been used for things which PhysX is too slow for. Source engine? All Havok. Frostbite (2.0 as well)? Havok. Red Faction: Guerrilla? Skyrim? Darksiders? Bioshock? Timeshift? All three Uncharted games? All Havok, including ragdolls and such where applicable.
Again, just because you don't get a big Havok logo thrown in your face doesn't mean it isn't there :/
Shocktrooper wrote:
Now TressFX is the first time I've seen hair physics outside of physx so it may be a step in the right direction.
You have not seen hair physics before, period. Nvidia had a hair demo, but it has never been used.
I was ONLY talking about fluids, the mass debris you hate so much, dynamic paper and leaves and tearable cloth which I havent seen before since I do not have a console. Nobody said anything about ragdoll, that was there back in Hitman 1. And yes the physx fog is very boring.
It seems you were right about the hair, I thought Alice uses physx for hair but this seems to be in-engine.
What dynamic paper and leaves? The shit in Batman?
That's hardly PhysX, that's just a dumb fucking animation. It may only be enabled when PhysX is, but it is not calculated in any way - you can walk really slowly next to a pile and it will explode just the same into the exact same pattern of paper falling down
And I don't hate particles or "debris" as you call it. I hate particles when they're applied wrong - and again, Havok can and has done them. Maybe you've never noticed them because they're usually not as exaggerated, but they're there nonetheless. The way they were done in Mafia 2 is just plain retarded and there's nothing nice about it. In a game that aims to do everything so realistically, a 9mm making a concrete pillar explode like they do with PhysX turned on is just stupid.
how on earth did you beat it? lol. the game struggled sooo much in the water level...
was good and nice and the gameplay was OK... but the game was all sorts of broken.
Signature/Avatar nuking: none (can be changed in your profile)
You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum
I love that game..
