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 Posted: Sat, 4th Nov 2006 23:34 Post subject: |
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| pistolshrimp wrote: | | All 3 major religions(christian being Roman Catholic) do not recognise birth control. |
It's ok in Islam actually  |
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| Posted: Sun, 5th Nov 2006 00:28 Post subject: |
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| pistolshrimp wrote: | | compubrain3000 wrote: | | pistolshrimp wrote: | | All 3 major religions(christian being Roman Catholic) do not recognise birth control. |
It's ok in Islam actually |
I remember reading about birthcontrol being not allowed and punishable in Sharia law countries. Why this stands out to me is because a Western women had an IUD and she pulled it out by hand in case someone found out? My muslim friends all use it tho but they are very very moderate.
Do you have a link for this? |
| Quote: | Almost all forms of birth control are thought to be permissible in Islam. Those that are not accepted include surgical sterilization (unless it is medically necessary), as it is viewed as a form of castration as well as alters the body without need, and the withdrawal method, because it interrupts a woman’s pleasure and prevents a woman from conceiving if that is what she wants. However, the withdrawal method may be used if the woman agrees to it.
Birth control use may be allowed for various women. Instances when Islam permits the use of contraception include:
* Allowing a woman to rest between pregnancies
* Preventing the transmission of infectious disease, such as an STD
* A women’s health requires the use of birth control
* A husband cannot financially support more children |
http://www.epigee.org/guide/islamic.html |
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| Posted: Sun, 5th Nov 2006 02:32 Post subject: |
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Thanks for the link. Your version sounds so common sence which isn't something you usually see with ultra religious organizations.
| Quote: |
5. Birth Control (frequent pregnancy)
• That the Muslim world has been experiencing a population explosion is not an understatement. Several Muslim-majority countries, including Bangladesh and Pakistan, are among the countries with rather large population and poverty. These Muslim-majority countries are breeding further poverty. For the vast majority of people, the quality of life is either stagnant at a miserably low level or, with exploding population growth, deteriorating. The religious establishment generally has been against any kind of birth control policy or program. Any such policy or program is considered inconsistent with Islam, believing that life and death are determined by Allah, and human beings should not try to interfere or influence the reproductive chain.
• As much as the rhetoric of justice and humanitarianism (insaniyat) is invoked, the reality is that the permissibility or prohibitive aspects of Islamic laws are determined by whether it is supported or corroborated by Islamic textual sources, not by taking human factors into consideration. There is rarely any effort on the part of Muslim jurists, generally an exclusive male circle, to understand what a woman goes through during each pregnancy or how much overbearing it is for women to have a child almost every year or every other year for so many times during the years of active reproductivity.
• Some of the results or effects are all too well known by the world. So many pregnancies take a heavy toll on the health of women as well as the children, because mothers can't physically and emotionally attend to a bunch of children, especially in an environment where child-bearing and child-rearing are left almost exclusively with the women. Many families can't come out of poverty because of large families. In many cases, infant mortality rate is high because quality of life can't be meaningful with too many children, where even basic needs can't be adequately met.
• It should be pointed out that in Islamic jurisprudence there are certain principles that allow adjustments even to pronouncements in sacred textual sources: maslahat (public interest), istihsan (juristic preference), darurah (necessity), etc.25 Each of these secondary methodologies have provided some dynamism to the process of ijtihad. Yet, even with these additional tools, the Islamic law and jurisprudence remained essentially “micro-juristic”. Moreover, for a way of life that is considered comprehensive, the toolkit to deal with all the problems and challenges of life effectively and dynamically remains too narrow.
• AbuSulayman, in his book Crisis of the Muslim Mind aptly points out:
• “Since the methodology of Islamic thought is distinguished by the comprehensiveness of its scope of application, it needs also to be distinguished by the comprehensiveness of its means. Life, in all its aspects, is the field of application for Muslims. In it they are obliged to understand, to seek knowledge, and to strive with every means at their disposal to direct the affairs of their lives toward their goals. Among the sound means of acquiring knowledge and understanding there are none that Muslims are to ignore, whether these be material, semantic, artistic, scientific, empirical, rational, quantitative, qualitative, theoretical, or analytical.26
• Unfortunately, not mandated by divine guidance, but by choice of its human practitioners, Islamic law and jurisprudence is boxed in its toolbox that is too narrow and non-comprehensive to deal with life in its comprehensiveness. Indeed, most of the methods mentioned above by AbuSulyaman is not even part of the fiqh’s vocabulary.
[u] • For example, in regard to this issue of birth control, according to the traditional religious establishment, birth and sustenance belong to the domain of God. We as human beings should not interfere, and birth control or population policies are a form of unacceptable and irreligious intervention. [u]Without doing any real-life-oriented research, the legal rulings and prescriptions and proscriptions are deduced in a text-oriented manner, where the arguments become asynchronous not just with the realities of life, but also such arguments contradict some of the important teachings of the Qur'an.
• First, Allah doesn't want people to marry unless they can support a family. Such people are still commanded to remain chaste until Allah makes them financially capable. "Let those who find not the wherewithal for marriage keep themselves chaste..." [24/an-Noor/33] However, the traditional viewpoint against any plan or effort to keep the family size reasonable, in connection with the family's ability to provide, is tantamount to saying that Allah has placed no responsibility on our wisdom, common sense or conscience in regard to our unbridled reproduction. It is like saying that we have no responsibility whether we are able to provide even the basic minimum for our children.
• Secondly, the Qur'an sets the norm that mothers will nurse their babies for two full years. "The mothers shall give such to their offspring for two whole years, if the father desires to complete the term." [2/al-Baqarah/233] The physical and emotional benefit of such nursing for the baby is indisputable. However, if a mother is supposed to nurse a baby for two years, shouldn't pregnancies be at least two years apart?
• Of course, these are again text-oriented arguments and evidence and illustrative of the fact that even in being text-oriented, there are some serious lapses in certain aspects of traditional Islamic positions. Indeed, there seems to be fundamental confusion regarding the sources of Islamic knowledge and the pertinent research methods and tools.
• Historically, Muslims wasted a great deal of energy when they began to discuss matters of the unseen, theology, and philosophical sophistries having to do with issues like the divine predicates. ... It is important that, in this study of Islamic methodology, we should not confuse the sources of Islamic knowledge, which are wahy, reason, and the natural laws of the universe, with the means for conducting research and study. Every scientific field has its own means which are particularly suited to it. Clearly, the Islamic disciplines must be based on wahy, reason, and the laws and standards that Allah has imposed on creation. Thus grounded, the new Islamic disciplines will be distinguished by their comprehensiveness and openness to any means capable of producing knowledge beneficial to humankind.27
• Unfortunately, research, especially focused on learning about and understanding the social reality, is totally absent from the purview and interest of the Islamic jurists/scholars and the Islamic juristic discourse. That the population explosion is a macro problem for the entire society is hardly understood and recognized by Islamic law. Let alone understanding and acknowledging the macro-micro distinction, there is also no recognition of or sensitivity to the fact that pregnancy, though natural to women, takes a heavy toll on the women/mothers at the micro level. At one level, Muslim jurists need to be sensitive to women's health and other pertinent factors. At another level, they need to take into consideration the overall negative effects of explosive population growth on the economy and society, especially in a globally competitive or confrontational environment. |
http://72.14.253.104/search?q=cache:uY_g8-oCz30J:www.globalwebpost.com/farooqm/writings/islamic/fiqh_empirical.doc+sharia+law%2Bbirth+control&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=6&client=safari
Well, I still think it sounds like ultra religious muslims wouldn’t except birthcontrol. I was looking for something more concrete regarding Sharia. Also, how advailiable is it? Even if someone had money to buy it, could they get it easily in Sharia law countries?
Limited access to birthcontrol has been used to control women. I know Japan was one of the last countries to provide it. The women protested because Viagra came out and they still couldn’t get a perscription for the pill. If this goes on in Japan, I don’t think the middle east would be better concerning a womens right to birthcontrol.
(I wrote this fast, I gotta run)
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| Posted: Sun, 5th Nov 2006 07:34 Post subject: |
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| pistolshrimp wrote: | | Well, I still think it sounds like ultra religious muslims wouldn’t except birthcontrol. I was looking for something more concrete regarding Sharia. Also, how advailiable is it? Even if someone had money to buy it, could they get it easily in Sharia law countries? |
As far as i know, all major schools of Islam accept birth control, even the Wahabis.
You can easily get contraceptives in all arab counties, including Saudi Arabia. In Egypt, they give them out for free.
| Quote: | The Qur'an does not make any explicit statements about the morality of contraception, but contains statements encouraging procreation. Various interpretations have been set forth over time, and at the time of this writing, discussions on the web can be found easily that take various positions. Early Muslim literature discusses various contraceptive methods, and a study sponsored by the Egyptian government concluded that not only was azl (coitus interruptus) acceptable from a moral standpoint, but any similar method that did not produce sterility was also acceptable.
"It is permissible to use condoms so long as this does not cause any harm and so long as both husband and wife consent to their use, because this is similar to ‘azl (coitus interruptus or “withdrawal”). But it reduces the sensation of pleasure, which is the right of both partners, and reduces the chance of conception, which is also the right of both partners. Neither one of them is allowed to deprive the other of these rights. And Allaah is the course of strength."
However, there are several schools of thought on this as well as other issues concerning Islamic morality. In Iran, an Islamic country, contraceptive methods are not only taught to married couples, but also encouraged to youngsters through posters and advertisements. |
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_views_on_birth_control#Islam
And here's the official Sharia view,
| Quote: | Viewed from this perspective, Islam does not look favorably at family planning if it is carried out for the simple reason of enjoyment and unwillingness to take on the responsibility of parenting.
Having said this, however, I must say the following. Since Islam considers quality more important than quantity, if the couple is resorting to contraception for any one of the following reasons, it may be considered permissible:
1. If both spouses are students whose academic performance would be adversely affected by taking on the added responsibility of parenting.
2. If they are too young to shoulder parental responsibilities.
3. If one or both of them are weak or sick and expect to take on the responsibility when the condition improves.
4. If they are burdened with responsibilities of taking care of their parents in advanced age, which drain them physically and emotionally.
5. If they are doing so only for a limited time (for instance the first one or two years) in order to be able to get to know each other, and thus prepare themselves better for shouldering such responsibilities.
6. If they are doing so in order to have gaps between pregnancies with a view to provide quality care and attention to the existing children.
7. If the wife cannot bear children because of medical reasons.
Now coming to the final point in your question, I must say:
Since the right to have children is shared equally between husband and wife, neither one of them should resort to contraception unilaterally. Rather, he or she is allowed to do so only through consensual agreement. The only exception to this rule is when the pregnancy is determined to be a risk to the wife’s life. In this case, she does not need permission of her husband to resort to contraception.” |
http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/Satellite?pagename=IslamOnline-English-Ask_Scholar/FatwaE/FatwaE&cid=1119503546604 |
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Serben
Banned
Posts: 1428
Location: Sweden
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| Posted: Sun, 5th Nov 2006 23:06 Post subject: |
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The withdrawal method fucking pwns. The man gets the orgasm, the woman gets jizz on her torso. Fucking WIN!
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| Posted: Mon, 6th Nov 2006 02:58 Post subject: |
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Vote for Bush a 3rd time around. He's the only one that can save us now!
Rewrite the constitution damnit! The fate of the world is at stake!
Sense Amid Madness, Wit Amidst Folly
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| Posted: Mon, 6th Nov 2006 03:16 Post subject: |
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| Serben wrote: | | The withdrawal method fucking pwns. The man gets the orgasm, the woman gets jizz on her torso. Fucking WIN! |
Ya and a orgasm falling short.
That method sucks for sex and even more for birthcontrol. I can't believe how many guys on here think that is an actual method.
That is like the birthcontrol of the stone ages. We are using computers now, learn the science.
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Cohen
Posts: 7155
Location: Rapture
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| Posted: Mon, 6th Nov 2006 13:48 Post subject: |
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no, you may want to look at it like this:
West has lots more money + nukez + technology + brains = islam get p00wned.
Islam has Annoying leaders who chat shit + lamer terrorist groups = the lose.
West ftw.
troll detected by SiN
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ChinUp
Posts: 5503
Location: 51.7° N ' 1.1° W
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| Posted: Mon, 6th Nov 2006 14:34 Post subject: |
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| Posted: Mon, 6th Nov 2006 20:23 Post subject: |
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@chin
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seems to me the ladies bitched because men were never home .. now you take the piss because they are always in .. |
Well I guess part of my problem is that I never and still don’t know my place as a women. I gotta work on that. I do go barefoot a lot of the time so I think there still is hope for me yet.
I never bitched when my guy wasn’t home, and I didn’t care what he did when he was at home. There are a few games he liked to play. He did sometimes 18 hr days on them. He got lunch and dinner delivered to him. With beer.
I wasn’t putting down guys that pick up women in bars. Rather questioning those that do and wonder why the girls they seem to meet are a bit money hungry and bitchy.
I am in the bathroom with them, I hear what they say and it is really sad, just Saturday, actually. Very upscale place. Not an intelligent thought in their head and they ARE MEAN. They were very beautiful tho. Not all of them are like this of course but a lot are. I bet they know their place as a women.
| Quote: | Pistol did you think about the fact that approaching a woman on the street is considered bad .. when you take the piss out of men who go to bars to meet women ? .. Damed if you do, damed if you don't .. how come women are like this .. i do not want to say .. wouldn't do any good ..
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Ya it probably isn’t a good idea to approach a women on the street but sometimes you can. Gotta be a bit smooth I guess.
When I took the bus I talked to people. Some were guys. When I worked downtown I talked to other people, some were guys I didn’t know while eating my lunch in a garden square. I saw a lot of the same guys all the time. I sat with a group of guys I didn’t know at a patio tapis bar because I was waiting for someone and they were really late. So they invited me over. Ohhh at Starbucks, I have had conversations with guys outside.
You are married are you not? (I think you have a nine yr old) I think you might be a bit out of touch on ‘The Approach’
| Quote: | | How come folks will stand & curse the rain rather than share an umbrella with a stranger |
Simple, because you can’t. Two people don’t fit under one umbrella without one getting poked in the eye. If it was doable, I would just bud my way under. Most people would be too shocked to kick you out you know.
But really I am from BC. It rains here all the time. I don’t care if I get wet.
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ChinUp
Posts: 5503
Location: 51.7° N ' 1.1° W
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| Posted: Tue, 7th Nov 2006 01:45 Post subject: |
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ChinUp
Posts: 5503
Location: 51.7° N ' 1.1° W
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| Posted: Tue, 7th Nov 2006 02:16 Post subject: |
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how come you don't keep on topic ? How come your getting so up tight about me observing you ripping on men .. do I get called a woman hater for pointing out women taking the piss out of men in general .. If you didn't understand why I felt you should not be mistreated by those fellows .. I said to you before .. i dint do it for your sake but for the sake of the forum being a place where women arnt treated like trash .. you are now getting all uppity about me doing the same thing in the other direction .. only difference is you slam all men .. those guys were just being crap to you ..
what you should know about me is I am a firm advocate of gender equality .. you can see the truth in this when I speak against not only women being treated unfairly because of there gender as will I speak against women treating men unfairly .. to me its just a realm one has to refrain from slipping into .. like a seesaw ,, once you feel comfortable to take advantage one way .. your asking for it to flip in the other too ..
I don't take the piss out of womens womanhood .. because I don't want my manhood being berated .. its a simple plan .. pity others arnt so inclined to pay attention to these things ..
now I will follow suit & ignore the topic .. sorry topic starter ..
"Most of the change we think we see in life is due to truths being in & out of favor." ~ Frost
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| Posted: Fri, 10th Nov 2006 11:43 Post subject: |
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reading each of chinups post is like reading a book
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deelix
PDIP Member
Posts: 32062
Location: Norway
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| Posted: Fri, 10th Nov 2006 12:08 Post subject: |
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No its not, books dosn't have those text .. text
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| Posted: Fri, 10th Nov 2006 15:58 Post subject: |
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i ment he writes too much for a normal person to bother reading
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anarxist
Banned
Posts: 4377
Location: Israel,born in the USSR
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| Posted: Sun, 12th Nov 2006 20:43 Post subject: |
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Young people.  People don't read books any longer.  I read my last one 3-4 years ago,I think.Bloody internet 
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SycoShaman
VIP Master Jedi
Posts: 24468
Location: Toronto, Canada
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| Posted: Sun, 12th Nov 2006 21:38 Post subject: |
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| anarxist wrote: | | Young people. People don't read books any longer. I read my last one 3-4 years ago,I think.Bloody internet |
Its a shame. Reading is way better than watching a movie or tv show.
Its more fun to visualize things for myself and make up my own visual story in my head than seeing someone else's take on things.
I like reading.
Tho, I havent read a book in a long fuckin time |
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| Posted: Mon, 13th Nov 2006 01:07 Post subject: |
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| Posted: Mon, 13th Nov 2006 01:40 Post subject: |
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I love books. I need a good one. I tried reading a book online, couldn't do it.
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-=Cartoon=-
VIP Member
Posts: 8823
Location: South Pacific Ocean
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| Posted: Mon, 13th Nov 2006 02:27 Post subject: |
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lol @ reading books online
ehehhe
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-=Cartoon=-
VIP Member
Posts: 8823
Location: South Pacific Ocean
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| Posted: Mon, 13th Nov 2006 02:27 Post subject: |
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