Since this community has people all over the globe I really want to hear the honest opinion of those with universal health care and to answer a few questions.
Is care rationed?
Are their long waiting times to be treated?
Are elderly really rejected from getting treatment?
Are you happy or at least content with the system? If not why?
no care is not rationed, drugs or ones in testing phases have a bad wrap of being lottery given when there are thousands that need it..
There are waiting times for all health care unless your private with say bupa etc, this is down to the sheer numbers of people needing aid and yet not enough surgeons etc to carry out the numbers needed to drop the waiting lists.
Elderly are not rejected perse' no. You turn up say in trouble out the blue you get dealt with from start to finish and normaly after care if needed.
Im happy here in the UK with the way things are, but again anything can be improved on.
"Finland has the highest number of people satisfied with their hospital care system in the EU: 88% of Finnish respondents were satisfied compared with the EU average of 41.3%. Finnish health care expenditures are below the European average."
NuclearShadow wrote:
Are you happy or at least content with the system? If not why?
But no I'm not happy with it. Why? Because I'm a cheap bastard, and a healthy cheap bastard at that - I never need the services and yet I have to pay for them via taxes. Meh, I say!
Are elderly really rejected from getting treatment?
Are you happy or at least content with the system? If not why?
no
In Canada our biggest issue is human resource shortages, so it depends -- wait times for elective procedures (things like knee or hip replacement which have increased about 2-2.5X in the last 10 years) have increased, although this has been a priority area in the last few years. But take sometime that is urgent -- say angioplasty after a heart attack or hip surgery after a fracture, well ofc you dont wait for that. I think that is the important distinction -- urgent vs. elective care. I would also imagine that here the idea of 'watchful waiting' is taken more seriously (rather than always rushing immediately to surgical solutions).
never. people would fucking shit bricks. elderly are rejected far more often by private insurance companies in the US than here. case in point -- I read that most HMOs will not cover a joint replacement unless projected life expectancy is something like 4.5 years after the surgery. That is not a discussion you hear in this country.
there is always room for improvement. but how we pay for it is not one of them
it is a good system. The only downside is that it is a system that stimulates both parties to profit from it and steal from the society. Doctors can prescribe expensive medication and people can get expensive medication cheap. Doctor is happy because he gets a holiday paid by some pharma company and the patient is happy. The only one not happy is the government.
As long as these problems are kept within an acceptable size (which is becoming a problem in Belgium) it is an ok system.
I dunno what people can have against it. You feel sick, go to doctor, pay your 14 euro and get them back 2 weeks later. In my eyes it is cheaper society wise than someone who does not go to doctor because it costs money, becomes more ill and needs a surgery or infects another 100 people.
No care is not rationed, the lists are mid - long, it really depends if you have connections then there is no waiting, but if you are having an emergency there is no waiting, normally.
Before last year we had total free health care, only little participation, but as of last year you have to pay for this little orange card - extra health care. If you have this card you don't need to pay for stay in hospital or some meds...
Croatia's population consists like of 60% of elderly (they even have their own party) so they aren't denied the health care, as they are the primary 'users' of it.
I was happier before when absolutely all was free, but I'm pretty happy as it is now. The main drawback here is that we don't have that much of advanced technology. For instance, my dad has to wait until mid September to get to PET scan, because the hospitals under social care don't have any so they have to send patients to private practice who has the machine...
And like pension it's automatically cut off from your salary so you don't have to worry about it
"Quantum mechanics is actually, contrary to it's reputation, unbeliveably simple, once you take the physics out."
Scott Aaronson
chiv wrote:
thats true you know. newton didnt discover gravity. the apple told him about it, and then he killed it. the core was never found.
Is care rationed? Are elderly really rejected from getting treatment?
hate to be a bit of a broken record, but I find it sadly amusing that this type of question dominates the healthcare debate in the US when in fact the only people despicable enough to do this are for-profit companies (and to some degree even non-profit HMOs) in America.
Is care rationed? Are elderly really rejected from getting treatment?
hate to be a bit of a broken record, but I find it sadly amusing that this type of question dominates the healthcare debate in the US when in fact the only people despicable enough to do this are for-profit companies (and to some degree even non-profit HMOs) in America.
It's funny that private companies are already doing all that and people just take it but the moment the government wants to change that status quo people reach for their pitch-forks. I guess the republican party finally got its act together because the only words standing out in this debate in the US are 'rationing', 'death panels' and 'granny'.
But I don't think that coming up with a third player in the market to widen the healthcare net is a good idea. They will end up replicating that which private and medicare are already doing and that's not a good start to cut costs.
Australia is half 'n' half. You go to the doctor (wait times depend on his personal schedule), he gives you a bill, you take that to either Medicare[Government] or your Private Insurance and they lop off a large amount of the bill and you pay the gap. Generic cheaper drugs are encouraged were possible.
I don't know how it works for surgery/serious stuff cause I'm young and healthy. All I know is the US sounds like hell from the Colbert Report and US documentaries.
Nobody is declined treatment. Waiting lines can be quite annoying but they can be shortened with more doctors & money available. Elderly are treated the same as anyone else. I'm content with the system, it could be better but I don't see any other system that could provide healthcare for everyone with better results. In the end it all comes down to amount of money that is available & number of doctors.
Nobody is declined treatment. Waiting lines can be quite annoying but they can be shortened with more doctors & money available.
Thats the same everywhere though, including the NHS, but you cant just expect governments to keep throwing money at the health service, they have to strike a balance.
it is stupid to link waiting lines with universal healthcare.
I am quite liberal in most sectors of the economy (Maybe a little too liberal sometimes) but I really do NOT understand this debate in the USA or other countries without universal healhcare. Waiting lines are caused by people going to doctors that previously did not go to a doctor. That is beneficial for everyone, because sick people are being healed.
And if you are too liberal to accept that you pay fo a poor guy's doctor, look at it this way. Your chance of being ill is considerably lowered because poor people, who get ill more easily to start with, are cured faster and better and thus lower the chance of infecting you (or causing trouble by for example dieing in front of your house when making a walk...).
I can be quite an asshole sometimes when I am discussing with people about unemployment money etc but paying a doctor for someone who cannot afford one, djeez, that can't be that hard?
I have no moral problems with CEOs earning 500 million in a bonus because they did a good job on their 80h/week job. I do have some, although only minor, problems with poor people that are not helped in a modern society. Especially if you see how easily they can be helped...
I never regretted the system here in Belgium. A lof of students here in Ghent need a doctor when they become ill, andthey have to pay 20 euro for a doctor. Mostly people survive with 50-60 euro/week they get from their parents (yeah that is the belgian system). What would happen if their was no public healthcare? People would wait until the weekend when they go to visit their parents and go to the doctor then because they cannot afford it. No you just go to the doctor, pay the 20 euro and 1 week later you get them back.
Of course you need to monitor things, because some people go to the emergency service for a cut in their finger...
But I don't think that coming up with a third player in the market to widen the healthcare net is a good idea. They will end up replicating that which private and medicare are already doing and that's not a good start to cut costs.
The problem is that there will never be any impetus to improve Medicare. They are poor and/or old, so fuck 'em if the system doesn't work. If you start adding middle class people just looking for affordable (and honest) coverage for medical care to a public system, then at least these people may have more influence to push for improvement.
^^ actually puts us to shame, we're pretty far behind the UK when it comes to quality and service improvement (that are doing far more than just throwing money at the problem).
I think it is far better to have National Insurance deducted from your wages when you're working (here in the UK) and to have virtually no limits on health care, and no worrying if you lose your job and become ill, than to have to set something up with a private company.
I see a doctor regularly, once a month and I never have any problem with waiting times or getting an appointment.
Treatment at hospitals can vary though and sometimes you can have to wait a few months for non-urgent operations.
NuclearShadow, not sure what you mean by, elderly being rejected treatment. If an elderly person was in bad health already and needed a kidney transplant or something, that could be refused and that person certainly wouldn't be a high priority.
I think it is far better to have National Insurance deducted from your wages when you're working (here in the UK) and to have virtually no limits on health care, and no worrying if you lose your job and become ill, than to have to set something up with a private company.
I see a doctor regularly, once a month and I never have any problem with waiting times or getting an appointment.
Treatment at hospitals can vary though and sometimes you can have to wait a few months for non-urgent operations.
NuclearShadow, not sure what you mean by, elderly being rejected treatment. If an elderly person was in bad health already and needed a kidney transplant or something, that could be refused and that person certainly wouldn't be a high priority.
God bless maggie thatcher
Same system as in Belgium it appears.
Yeah and no livers for drunks and drug addicts... Which is quite logical to be honest...
2) Depends. I had dislocated my shoulder two times; had to go to hospital in both cases to get it popped back in. In one hospital, I was waiting for like 5-6 hours; and it is pretty painful too. But the other time (another hospital), I was out in 2 hours. My final point is that if its busy and you're not going to die anytime soon, don't expect to get treated anytime soon. Don't know how this would compare to the US though.
3) Elders do not get rejected from treatment (at least I have never heard of it)
4) Its an okay system; beats having to worry about paying for medical bills etc. But it can be improved as others have stated
2) Depends. I had dislocated my shoulder two times; had to go to hospital in both cases to get it popped back in. In one hospital, I was waiting for like 5-6 hours; and it is pretty painful too. But the other time (another hospital), I was out in 2 hours.
another important thing to consider is whether to visit an urgent care center vs. an emergency room (although I guess this only applies if you live in a bigger city). by that I mean something like this:
I think if you have a broken bone or a cut that needs stitching you are not going to wait until morning to get checked out. So this leaflet is a bit stupid to me.
I think if you have a broken bone or a cut that needs stitching you are not going to wait until morning to get checked out. So this leaflet is a bit stupid to me.
It means the urgent care clinic (less serious than emerg) is only open from 9am - 9pm ... you go to the ER if that clinic is not open... but you still will have to wait for those more serious cases.
oh, and as usual fake news is more informative than the real news ...
Quote:
Congress Deadlocked Over How To Not Provide Health Care
WASHINGTON—After months of committee meetings and hundreds of hours of heated debate, the United States Congress remained deadlocked this week over the best possible way to deny Americans health care.
"Both parties understand that the current system is broken," House Speaker Nancy Pelosi told reporters Monday. "But what we can't seem to agree upon is how to best keep it broken, while still ensuring that no elected official takes any political risk whatsoever. It’s a very complicated issue."
"Ultimately, though, it's our responsibility as lawmakers to put these differences aside and focus on refusing Americans the health care they deserve," Pelosi added.
The legislative stalemate largely stems from competing ideologies deeply rooted along party lines. Democrats want to create a government-run system for not providing health care, while Republicans say coverage is best denied by allowing private insurers to make it unaffordable for as many citizens as possible.
"We have over 40 million people without insurance in this country today, and that is unacceptable," Sen. Orrin Hatch (R-UT) said. "If we would just quit squabbling so much, we could get that number up to 50 or even 100 million. Why, there's no reason we can't work together to deny health care to everyone but the richest 1 percent of the population."
"That's what America is all about," he added.
House Minority Leader John Boehner (R-OH) said on Meet The Press that Republicans would never agree to a plan that doesn't allow citizens the choice to be denied medical care in the private sector.
"Americans don't need some government official telling them they don't have the proper coverage to receive treatment," Boehner said. "What they need is massive insurance companies to become even more rich and powerful by withholding from average citizens the care they so desperately require. We're talking about people's health and the obscene profits associated with that, after all."
Though there remain irreconcilable points, both parties have reached some common ground in recent weeks. Senate leaders Harry Reid (D-NV) and Mitch McConnell (R-KY) point to Congress' failure to pass legislation before a July 31 deadline as proof of just how serious lawmakers are about stringing along the American people and never actually reforming the health care industry in any meaningful way.
"People should know that every day we are working without their best interests in mind," Reid said. "But the goal here is not to push through some watered-down bill that only denies health care to a few Americans here and a few Americans there. The goal is to recognize that all Americans have a God-given right to proper medical attention and then make sure there's no chance in hell that ever happens."
"No matter what we come up with," Reid continued, "rest assured that millions of citizens will remain dangerously uninsured, and the inflated health care industry will continue to bankrupt the country for decades."
Other lawmakers stressed that, while there has been some progress, the window of cooperation was closing.
"When you get into the nuts and bolts of how best not to provide people with care essential to their survival, there are many things to take into consideration," Rep. Michele Bachmann (R-MN) said. "I believe we can create a plan for Americans that allows them to not be able to go to the hospital, not get the treatment they need, and ultimately whither away and die. But we've got to act fast."
For his part, President Barack Obama claimed to be optimistic, even saying he believes that a health care denial bill will pass in both houses of Congress by the end of the year.
"We have an opportunity to do something truly historic in 2009," Obama said to a mostly silent crowd during a town hall meeting in Virginia yesterday. "I promise I will only sign a clear and comprehensive health care bill that fully denies coverage to you, your sick mother, her husband, middle-class Americans, single-parent households, the unemployed, and most importantly, anyone in need of emergency medical attention."
"This administration is committed to not providing health care," Obama added. "Not just for this generation of Americans, but for many generations to come."
Since this community has people all over the globe I really want to hear the honest opinion of those with universal health care and to answer a few questions.
Is care rationed?
Are their long waiting times to be treated?
Are elderly really rejected from getting treatment?
Are you happy or at least content with the system? If not why?
no rationing here
not that bad, it depends on whats wrong with you. if youve got cancer or a heart problem or some other life threatening illness you get seen quick. our doctor has a drop in every morning so no problem seeing him if needed.
no not as far as i know, my mum and dad still get treatment (65+).
works well for me, i have no complaints.
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