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LeoNatan
Banned
Posts: 73193
Location: Ramat Gan, Israel 🇮🇱
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 Posted: Fri, 4th Jun 2010 01:20 Post subject: |
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@Yuuichi
This is an unfair comparison. And yet, if you look at games like Monkey Island, Another World, Prince of Persia, Doom, etc, all had very little development teams, art was nowhere as much as modern titles, and even so, they still allow, in most cases, to enjoy them more than the modern crap.
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Waargh
Posts: 6997
Location: hell on earth
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| Posted: Fri, 4th Jun 2010 01:41 Post subject: |
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$60 mil come from bureaucracy. There's 400 managers, lawyers and secretaries for every 50 programmers, artists. They want good payment and bonuses.
Just a little internal story for your consideration:
EA. NFS Shift. The marketing team in one of the EU countries says that it would be cool to add some specific decals on the cars in the localized version. Yeah, np say the devs. "That will cost you $10k." $10k for adding a slightly changed car's texture. The local marketing team is like wtf?! Even they understand that a 2 hrs photoshop job can't cost 10k. And then they get explained that the PS job will cost 500 and 9500 is for all the dozens of managers that will *handle* the request.
It's not a joke, it was a real situation.
So as long as there's an army of fucktards forwarding thousands of emails to each others daily handling evey goddamn brushstroke, the games will cost dozens of millions.
Today I didn't even need to use my AK. I gotta say it was a good day. (c) - Ice Cube
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| Posted: Fri, 4th Jun 2010 01:48 Post subject: |
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How is 150.000 a big budget? Especially if they consider one year of hard work.
No one would want to work for less than 50.000$ a year. So... JUST the man power will cost you 300.000$ for 6 persons. Add Hardware and software to it and you'll reach an even higher number.
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Waargh
Posts: 6997
Location: hell on earth
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| Posted: Fri, 4th Jun 2010 01:52 Post subject: |
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http://maxandthemagicmarker.com/about/
They wasted 167k euro on a fucking 2D scroller with physics.
That's how you spoil developers. That's why they think their next 3D Tetris project should cost at least 500k.
Today I didn't even need to use my AK. I gotta say it was a good day. (c) - Ice Cube
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| Posted: Fri, 4th Jun 2010 01:58 Post subject: |
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| PumpAction wrote: | How is 150.000 a big budget? Especially if they consider one year of hard work.
No one would want to work for less than 50.000$ a year. So... JUST the man power will cost you 300.000$ for 6 persons. Add Hardware and software to it and you'll reach an even higher number. |
I live in Romania, and I counted the average wage we all make. It's not as much as you put it. We are willing to work harder than normal, we all get a share of the profit, if there will ever be one.
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Waargh
Posts: 6997
Location: hell on earth
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| Posted: Fri, 4th Jun 2010 02:00 Post subject: |
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Ubisoft already realized that and they make their games in China.
Crytek have their largest sweatshop in Ukraine.
Even Gameloft (mobile games) established sweatshops in Ukraine.
Today I didn't even need to use my AK. I gotta say it was a good day. (c) - Ice Cube
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| Posted: Fri, 4th Jun 2010 02:46 Post subject: |
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| iNatan wrote: | @Yuuichi
This is an unfair comparison. And yet, if you look at games like Monkey Island, Another World, Prince of Persia, Doom, etc, all had very little development teams, art was nowhere as much as modern titles, and even so, they still allow, in most cases, to enjoy them more than the modern crap. |
Sorry, all of those games are over 9000 years old. You can't say "Doom cost nothing to make, therefore all good games can be made on no budget." Times have changed.
Not to mention that 90% of games in the early 90s sucked total ass just like they do today. In twenty years you'll sit back and start talking about the good days when Mass Effect and Dragon Age came out. It's easy to just see the diamonds from the past. You can't just look at Doom 1 and say that because it's better than Dark Sector that all modern games are crap. The "I am leh oldschool, modern games are shit" attitude is so trollish.
Finally, you know nothing about the development process behind some of those games. Prince of Persia was an artistic masterpiece -- the rotoscoping was phenomenal. Good art doesn't always have to be expensive, but generally artists want to be paid properly. The OP has already stated that the art will be fairly iffy, so it's clear that there won't be any underpaid Renoirs working on this game.
Someone who thinks he can spend a little over a year making a game in his spare time and take $40 from me has another thing coming.
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LeoNatan
Banned
Posts: 73193
Location: Ramat Gan, Israel 🇮🇱
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| Posted: Fri, 4th Jun 2010 02:49 Post subject: |
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I'm just saying, if someone was to make similar games today, they'd still be worthy of purchase. Perhaps not full 60$ price, but certainly worth purchase. Neither am I saying that ALL modern games are bad. Nor was I speaking about the OP's project in particular, but rather in general.
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| Posted: Fri, 4th Jun 2010 02:56 Post subject: |
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| iNatan wrote: | | I'm just saying, if someone was to make similar games today, they'd still be worthy of purchase. Perhaps not full 60$ price, but certainly worth purchase. Neither am I saying that ALL modern games are bad. Nor was I speaking about the OP's project in particular, but rather in general. |
Oh I agree completely. I'd gladly pay $40 for a quality independent game with a SP campaign, regardless of the art. And I'd consider paying less for a really good MP game.
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Ashok0
Posts: 1733
Location: Ohio
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| Posted: Fri, 4th Jun 2010 03:15 Post subject: |
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| Yuuichi wrote: | | Not to mention that 90% of games in the early 90s sucked total ass just like they do today. |
That is actually true. Altho back in the 90s, it seemed like there were more varieties of AAA games. FPS (Wolfenstein, Doom, Quake), Space Sims (X-Wing, TIE Fighter, Wing Commander), Adventure (Monkey Island, Kings Quest, Gabriel Knight), Puzzle (The Incredible Machine, You Dont Know Jack), cRPG (Planescape Torment, Baldurs Gate), jRPG (Final Fantasy, Chrono Trigger), Strategy (XCom, Jagged Alliance, C&C, WarCraft).
Looking back over a decade later... what the heck happened?
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Jundy
Posts: 267
Location: 3rd Floor in a Room 6mx5m
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| Posted: Fri, 4th Jun 2010 11:10 Post subject: |
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I support Valve and Dice with their COOL titles,
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Santar
Posts: 71
Location: Norway
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| Posted: Fri, 4th Jun 2010 11:31 Post subject: |
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What's stopping me from buying quite a few pc games these days is DRM. There's quite a few titles I'd have gladly bought had it not been for the DRM they were saddled with.
Another thing I've realized lately is that I don't really know if I'll ever buy myself a new top of the line gaming pc. These days when basically all games comes to the consoles first anyways, it is starting to seem almost a bit unnessesary to buy a crazy expensive pc when you get a console for a small fraction of the price. Even if the console breaks, replacing it will only set you back the same as a medium range graphics card.
Last edited by Santar on Sat, 5th Jun 2010 14:23; edited 1 time in total
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SexyPig
Posts: 132
Location: The world
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| Posted: Fri, 4th Jun 2010 12:02 Post subject: |
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It should be free or cost 5-10$ like all small and simple games are costing.
stalin, hitler same shit different asshole, both was retarded gays.
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| Posted: Fri, 4th Jun 2010 12:43 Post subject: |
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| Santar wrote: | | Another thing I've realized lately is that I don't really know if I'll ever buy myself a new "gaming" pc. These days when basically all games comes to the consoles first anyways, it's starting to sound quite stupid to buy a crazy expensive pc when you get a console for a small fraction of the price. Even if the console breaks, replacing it will only set you back the same as a medium range graphics card. |
You are clearly not a pc-gamer by heart. Being a pc-gamer isn't about cost or release dates. It's about freedom, customizability, using proper controls, option to download mods/dlc's and having superior image quality. It's about mixing and tricksing hardware. It's about all those little third party programs. It's about multi-tasking and alt-tabing while playing games. One word sums it all up: Freedom.
Why is it that important that games are released onto the PC first? Why is it that important that the PC has exclusives? I don't get it. So what if you have to wait even a few months or if the other gaming platforms also can play Fallout 3? It's irrelevant. What's relevant is that your gaming experience is the best you can get.
Don't get me wrong if you're on a VERY tight budget a console might be better suited for many gamers, but to be perfectly honest a good pc doesn't cost much today. I would probably give up gaming before I converted to using one of those console-pads. I can't stand them. It's devolution.
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| Posted: Fri, 4th Jun 2010 12:47 Post subject: |
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Reading the arguments, I realized I forgot to mention something important, stupid me. From July, we will be working full time on it till october, and if the funding arrives, we will continue to work on it full time, as our main place of work.
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Santar
Posts: 71
Location: Norway
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| Posted: Fri, 4th Jun 2010 13:17 Post subject: |
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| Taffelost wrote: | | Santar wrote: | | Another thing I've realized lately is that I don't really know if I'll ever buy myself a new "gaming" pc. These days when basically all games comes to the consoles first anyways, it's starting to sound quite stupid to buy a crazy expensive pc when you get a console for a small fraction of the price. Even if the console breaks, replacing it will only set you back the same as a medium range graphics card. |
You are clearly not a pc-gamer by heart. Being a pc-gamer isn't about cost or release dates. It's about freedom, customizability, using proper controls, option to download mods/dlc's and having superior image quality. It's about mixing and tricksing hardware. It's about all those little third party programs. It's about multi-tasking and alt-tabing while playing games. One word sums it all up: Freedom.
Why is it that important that games are released onto the PC first? Why is it that important that the PC has exclusives? I don't get it. So what if you have to wait even a few months or if the other gaming platforms also can play Fallout 3? It's irrelevant. What's relevant is that your gaming experience is the best you can get.
Don't get me wrong if you're on a VERY tight budget a console might be better suited for many gamers, but to be perfectly honest a good pc doesn't cost much today. I would probably give up gaming before I converted to using one of those console-pads. I can't stand them. It's devolution. |
Actually you're right I'm not a pc gamer at heart, I'm a GAMER at heart.
I love gaming, weither it's on pc or console. And you rambling on about what it means to YOU to be a pc gamer doesn't change anything. You just sound like an angry forum dweller who can't stand others having a different opinion than you.
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| Posted: Fri, 4th Jun 2010 14:45 Post subject: |
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| Santar wrote: | | Taffelost wrote: | | Santar wrote: | | Another thing I've realized lately is that I don't really know if I'll ever buy myself a new "gaming" pc. These days when basically all games comes to the consoles first anyways, it's starting to sound quite stupid to buy a crazy expensive pc when you get a console for a small fraction of the price. Even if the console breaks, replacing it will only set you back the same as a medium range graphics card. |
You are clearly not a pc-gamer by heart. Being a pc-gamer isn't about cost or release dates. It's about freedom, customizability, using proper controls, option to download mods/dlc's and having superior image quality. It's about mixing and tricksing hardware. It's about all those little third party programs. It's about multi-tasking and alt-tabing while playing games. One word sums it all up: Freedom.
Why is it that important that games are released onto the PC first? Why is it that important that the PC has exclusives? I don't get it. So what if you have to wait even a few months or if the other gaming platforms also can play Fallout 3? It's irrelevant. What's relevant is that your gaming experience is the best you can get.
Don't get me wrong if you're on a VERY tight budget a console might be better suited for many gamers, but to be perfectly honest a good pc doesn't cost much today. I would probably give up gaming before I converted to using one of those console-pads. I can't stand them. It's devolution. |
Actually you're right I'm not a pc gamer at heart, I'm a GAMER at heart.
I love gaming, weither it's on pc or console. And you rambling on about what it means to YOU to be a pc gamer doesn't change anything. You just sound like an angry forum dweller who can't stand others having a different opinion than you. |
Am I rambling? I just described the difference between a console and a pc. How is that rambling in any way? There's a significant difference between a console- and a pc-gamer. In fact you sound like an angry forum dweller that can't stand others having a differing opinion. You're perfectly fine coming here to the pc games arena saying it's stupid buying a pc when you can get a console for the fraction of the price, but you shouldn't be surprised if people disagrees with you. At least not here.
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Santar
Posts: 71
Location: Norway
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| Posted: Fri, 4th Jun 2010 15:19 Post subject: |
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release it for free with time limitation "trial" and you will see
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| Posted: Fri, 4th Jun 2010 15:21 Post subject: |
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Last edited by Yondaime on Mon, 2nd Dec 2024 15:52; edited 1 time in total
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| Posted: Fri, 4th Jun 2010 18:29 Post subject: |
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| Ashok0 wrote: | | Leechorama wrote: | | Taffelost wrote: |
My thought precisely! The pc as a gaming platform is doing just fine. |
I would like to change that statement a little and say that the PC as a release/retail (not sure how to word it) platform is doing fine, but as a gaming platform it's doing horrible. How many good PC only games do you see today compared to ported console games? |
Fewer and fewer exclusives is an issue that is plaguing every platform. Sony only has a handful of upcoming AAA exclusives. Last Guardian. Agent. FFV13. Killzone 3. And Microsoft? Halo. Gears. That's about it. So no, cross platform porting is actually not a FOXDIE retrovirus custom engineered to kill the PC platform. |
True. But when we talk about PC games with a genuine PC-game feeling to them, it doesn't matter if the 360 and PS3 share titles. It's all about consoles vs. PC, and how many studios today create exclusive AAA-budgeted PC-titles?
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