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 Posted: Tue, 8th Jun 2010 21:50 Post subject: |
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| sabin1981 wrote: | Paying for education or healthcare is a preposterous idea. There is nothing any single person on this site can say, whatsoever, that will make me change my mind on that. America is the only country in the world that will kick you out of hospital, kick you right to the kerb, if you haven't got insurance or money to pay for healthcare. That's the "American Dream" is it? Well you can all fucking keep it 
I'll keep my free education, my free healthcare, my well... pretty much anything the UK or Norway does is better than what America offers, so yeah; I'll just keep being non-American  |
that's a kinda childish way to look at things. health care and education aren't free, someone has to pay for them.
in the US, you may have to pay extra for a health care plan - but then again, in other countries that provide "free" health care, that amount is simply taken from your income before it hits your bank account (like the income tax). and if you don't have a job or work freelance, you pay extra just like in the US. besides, the "free" healthcare doesn't always cover the best treatments available and especially if you're in serious shit in terms of health, you'd want the best one there is. which means getting extra (private) insurance.
and concerning education: i'd rather save up/take a loan before going to uni and get a fucking decent education where i'm a human and not one of a few thousand numbers, where there is top notch equipment instead of 70s shit, where there aren't only 50 seats in most courses and 200 students fighting over them. and then there's the specific example of getting a MBA, where your income is (more often than not) determined by which uni you went to, so your uni "investment" pays off hugely. now one may argue that this hurts the poor but intelligent students, but there are scholarships for those cases.
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| Posted: Tue, 8th Jun 2010 22:12 Post subject: |
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| bushwacka wrote: |
that's a kinda childish way to look at things. health care and education aren't free, someone has to pay for them.
in the US, you may have to pay extra for a health care plan - but then again, in other countries that provide "free" health care, that amount is simply taken from your income before it hits your bank account (like the income tax). and if you don't have a job or work freelance, you pay extra just like in the US. besides, the "free" healthcare doesn't always cover the best treatments available and especially if you're in serious shit in terms of health, you'd want the best one there is. which means getting extra (private) insurance.
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Childish to expect our governments to actually DO something with the BILLIONS in taxes that we pay each year? Childish to expect decent healthcare and education? Nonsense. We pay with our taxes, simple as that. You may not accept it, and don't worry; a lot of Americans don't either, but "free" healthcare WORKS. It always has. The amount you pay in taxes does not, in any way, equate to the ludicrous cost of health insurance in America .. and worse; the absolutely horrifying amount of money healthcare costs you without insurance. You can claim that our NHS costs us more in taxes than America's "insurance" policies do, but you'd be wrong. Dead wrong.
As for paying "extra" if you're unemployed or self-employed? Buzzz. Incorrect. If you're unemployed then it's FREE.. lovely word that, isn't it? FREE. You don't pay a penny for anything. Period. If you're working, then you just pay for prescription costs - a set fee of £6.20 for ANYTHING, whether that's methadone, asthma medication, or even some new cancer drug trial. Everyone pays that, no matter how much money you earn, and it's free to the unemployed or those claiming some kind of benefit. Medical care? diagnosis? treatment? operations? FREE. Getting the best care is impossible on "free" healthcare systems? Complete and utter BULLSHIT. Five years ago I was diagnosed with cancer.. I saw my doctor on a Wednesday, he sent me for a scan the very same week. They found a tumour. Two weeks later I was in a hospital bed getting ready for my operation. The next morning I had my op and they successfully removed the tumour -- and I went for scans and check-ups every six months for the next two years. Now my scans are every five years, just to make sure the cancer has gone. You know what that cost me? NOTHING. ZERO. ZIP. NADDA. Completely FREE on the NHS. Diagnosed, treated, cured within a fucking MONTH.
Completely free.
Ahhh, lovely word that. FREE. This is what Obama is trying to give you peons but nooooo... you'd rather you kept paying tens of thousands in hospital bills JUST to spite those on low income. America, land of the free and land of the tolerate my fucking arse.
As for Norwegian healthcare? Pretty much the same as England, except we pay a consultation fee to see a doctor - and that's it. Everything else, barring prescriptions (same price as UK; £6-odd) is complete and utterly free. Lovely word that. FREE.
| Quote: |
and concerning education: i'd rather save up/take a loan before going to uni and get a fucking decent education where i'm a human and not one of a few thousand numbers, where there is top notch equipment instead of 70s shit, where there aren't only 50 seats in most courses and 200 students fighting over them. and then there's the specific example of getting a MBA, where your income is (more often than not) determined by which uni you went to, so your uni "investment" pays off hugely. now one may argue that this hurts the poor but intelligent students, but there are scholarships for those cases. |
Education is, again, free to most people. If you're working, then you have zero, or low, interest student loans to pay back - and in stark contrast to Uhhhmerica; you don't spend the rest of your life up to your eyes in debt because of it. 70s equipment? What third-world country have you been visiting? UK and Norway have the very latest equipment for whatever course you require.
Urgh. Forget it, this isn't worth my time. Go back to your "wonderful" expensive healthcare and education systems 
Last edited by sabin1981 on Tue, 8th Jun 2010 22:19; edited 1 time in total
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LeoNatan
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| Posted: Tue, 8th Jun 2010 22:17 Post subject: |
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Sabin, it's all about the rich protecting their wealth and the interest of the rich.
"We can afford much better than the default health-care, so poor who can't afford any shouldn't have any at all."
"I can take a loan that will put me in a very good education facility, so poor who cannot afford to take such loan should have no education at all - better have them in jails on in the eye-rack."
Who's the childish again?
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DXWarlock
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| Posted: Tue, 8th Jun 2010 22:51 Post subject: |
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| sabin1981 wrote: | I know Leo .. it's absolutely disgusting. These people call themselves human beings? It's so very droll to quote myself but;
| sabin1981 wrote: | | This is what Obama is trying to give you peons but nooooo... you'd rather you kept paying tens of thousands in hospital bills JUST to spite those on low income. America, land of the free and land of the tolerate my fucking arse. |
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I agree, but you make it sound as if everyone there is cheery and happy, and have rainbows in their pockets.
there is as many problems there as here..perhaps different, but still problems.
Just because you don't have our set of problems doesn't mean they are worse or better off for it.
I can bet for every dumb American fighting for no health care, there is one over there fighting dumbly against some other menial issue you guys have politically.
I'm not defending america, we DO have idiotic over religious idiots running our country.
but you make it sound like free health care and school make everyone there happy. and solves all the social problems.
there is just as many miserable, unhappy bitching people there, just not about the same subjects.
every country has its idiots, and they seem to want to be the loudest.
when uneducated on a political topic, every country has its people that think "scream louder and with more passion it makes you sound more correct and right".
-We don't control what happens to us in life, but we control how we respond to what happens in life.
-Hard times create strong men, strong men create good times, good times create weak men, and weak men create hard times. -G. Michael Hopf
Disclaimer: Post made by me are of my own creation. A delusional mind relayed in text form.
Last edited by DXWarlock on Tue, 8th Jun 2010 22:52; edited 1 time in total
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| Posted: Tue, 8th Jun 2010 22:52 Post subject: |
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True, that may well be the case .. but the difference is; we don't have this shit on the media, jammed down our throats by the "vocal minority"
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| Posted: Tue, 8th Jun 2010 22:54 Post subject: |
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oh yeah i'm so fucking rich. that is, if you consider being rich/upper class = working my ass off for ~800€/month while doing my uni studies. and cause it's freelance, i don't simply get free health insurance but have to pay. thankfully it's a low amount cause i'm a student, but that doesn't change the situation for those who aren't. and i've never set foot into a private clinic (except for job purposes).
besides: UK/norway != rest of the world
@education topic: just my own personal opinion, which i'm hopefully entitled to.
and while it's true that the US health system is below suboptimal, those few bucks for insurance won't hurt any working individual (since they aren't paying that amount in taxes). the problem is the missing focus on supporting the poor ones.
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DXWarlock
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| Posted: Tue, 8th Jun 2010 22:56 Post subject: |
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| sabin1981 wrote: | | True, that may well be the case .. but the difference is; we don't have this shit on the media, jammed down our throats by the "vocal minority" |
again its the freedom of press, and freedom of speech that causes that.
anyone with money here can put their thoughts on the air..which causes the less intelligent to see it as "hmm its on TV, on a real TV station, so it must be the majority of opinion"
just because your broadcast over the airwaves with corporate sponsors..doesnt automatically make your opinion any more valuable.
take glen beck for example..its the age old issue that every major civilization has had.
that it only takes someone slightly smarter than the idiots and a position to preach, to seem like a genius to them, and they accept what he says as revolutionary.
and sadly most people all over the world want someone smarter than them to explain things to them...and those explaining spreads their opinions as facts.
-We don't control what happens to us in life, but we control how we respond to what happens in life.
-Hard times create strong men, strong men create good times, good times create weak men, and weak men create hard times. -G. Michael Hopf
Disclaimer: Post made by me are of my own creation. A delusional mind relayed in text form.
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DXWarlock
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| Posted: Tue, 8th Jun 2010 23:01 Post subject: |
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totally off topic..but its like the 'gun' issue US has..of gun control.
I agree anyone should be able to own a gun, but lets follow the WHOLE situation that caused the amendment to be added. "right to bear arms" was for that anyone was allowed to have a gun for right to protect the country during the revolutionary war. so that we couldnt be overrun without protection because of lack of ability for people to arm themselves.
so lets keep that, you can own a gun..you can own 50 guns. but purchasing a private gun does just what it says its for.
you own a gun..your able to be recruited into the military at anytime for use of it in time of need.
but Americans don't want that..as it makes them liable for owning a gun. gives them a 'negative' aspect of the choice to get one.
they scream "its our constitutional RIGHT to have a gun!!" yea it is..its also in there that owning one means you willing to use it to defend the land that lets you have it....they ignore that part when screaming it.
-We don't control what happens to us in life, but we control how we respond to what happens in life.
-Hard times create strong men, strong men create good times, good times create weak men, and weak men create hard times. -G. Michael Hopf
Disclaimer: Post made by me are of my own creation. A delusional mind relayed in text form.
Last edited by DXWarlock on Tue, 8th Jun 2010 23:02; edited 1 time in total
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DXWarlock
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| Posted: Tue, 8th Jun 2010 23:08 Post subject: |
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| sabin1981 wrote: | | bushwacka wrote: |
besides: UK/norway != rest of the world
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No, but at least we're trying to set the bar for what a decent civilised country should be like. Punishing the tax-payers is never a smart idea  |
maybe..but your missing the point of to have a perfect country with no issues, you first have to take mankind out of the country.
mankind has always had the "i want more than the other people, in the other cave have!" since we started being self aware.
no country will outgrow that mentality as long as people are running it. some are just better at appeasing the people while the rich get what they want, and leave the rest to the lower classes. for every man alive, the only thing that separates a rich man from a poor man, is the poor man didn't figure out a way to work the system like the rich man.
and in the process the poor man wants what the rich guy has, and the rich guy refuses to give it to him, because that's what separates him from the poor is his possessions.
how can one label themselves as better, if they dont have anything tangible to use as evidence for it?
not saying its right, or just..but it IS the way mankind is, and always will be.
-We don't control what happens to us in life, but we control how we respond to what happens in life.
-Hard times create strong men, strong men create good times, good times create weak men, and weak men create hard times. -G. Michael Hopf
Disclaimer: Post made by me are of my own creation. A delusional mind relayed in text form.
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| Posted: Tue, 8th Jun 2010 23:11 Post subject: |
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| |DXWarlock wrote: |
maybe..but your missing the point of to have a perfect country with no issues, you first have to take mankind out of the country.
mankind has always had the "i want more than the other people, in the other cave have!" since we started being self aware.
no country will outgrow that mentality as long as people are running it. some are just better at appeasing the people while the rich get what they want, and leave the rest to the lower classes. |
I don't doubt that whatsoever. No country is perfect (except Norway <3) I know that, there's no such thing as a utopian society, and as long as greed exists - then there will always be the "I want more" mentality. All I'm saying is that there are a number of countries that are living proof of a centralised healthcare and education system.. and they work. There is honestly no logical reason why a supposedly civilised WORLD POWER can't give its citizens free (or heavily subsidised) health and education.
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DXWarlock
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| Posted: Tue, 8th Jun 2010 23:18 Post subject: |
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| sabin1981 wrote: |
I don't doubt that whatsoever. No country is perfect (except Norway <3) I know that, there's no such thing as a utopian society, and as long as greed exists - then there will always be the "I want more" mentality. All I'm saying is that there are a number of countries that are living proof of a centralised healthcare and education system.. and they work. There is honestly no logical reason why a supposedly civilised WORLD POWER can't give its citizens free (or heavily subsidised) health and education. |
oh I agree, but its the american view breed over the last 50 years of the "american dream" actually causing this mentality now.
they tried to give everyone the american dream after ww2, a car in every garage, cheap everything, no one should be poor, the skys the limit on what you can have...and caused us to be selfish in the process.
and everyone slowly saw it as "its all about me, and what I want..that's the American dream, getting everything I wanted with a little effort as possible to live happy"
now that the classes are getting more separated from the poor and the spoiled..the spoiled is going:
"no no remember? its about individual rights, and whats mine is mine. the capitalist dream! I own my own things outright..no one can take it...now your wanting to take some of it to help the others to make us closer to equal? sounds like COMMUNISM!!!"
sad as it is...the American dream is what ruined America. creating greedy, self serving capitalist.
edit: even being an american..it sickens me how "patriotic" most people are
wave an American flag at them, they will kill thier moms if they are told its the American thing to do.
every side of every political party uses it with their opinions to rally against the other side doing the same thing.
only thing that makes me an 'american' is what piece of land sticking out of the ocean I just happen to plop out onto, out of my mom.
-We don't control what happens to us in life, but we control how we respond to what happens in life.
-Hard times create strong men, strong men create good times, good times create weak men, and weak men create hard times. -G. Michael Hopf
Disclaimer: Post made by me are of my own creation. A delusional mind relayed in text form.
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| Posted: Tue, 8th Jun 2010 23:29 Post subject: |
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| |DXWarlock wrote: | | sabin1981 wrote: |
I don't doubt that whatsoever. No country is perfect (except Norway <3) I know that, there's no such thing as a utopian society, and as long as greed exists - then there will always be the "I want more" mentality. All I'm saying is that there are a number of countries that are living proof of a centralised healthcare and education system.. and they work. There is honestly no logical reason why a supposedly civilised WORLD POWER can't give its citizens free (or heavily subsidised) health and education. |
oh I agree, but its the american view breed over the last 50 years of the "american dream" actually causing this mentality now.
they tried to give everyone the american dream after ww2, a car in every garage, cheap everything, no one should be poor, the skys the limit on what you can have...and caused us to be selfish in the process.
and everyone slowly saw it as "its all about me, and what I want..that's the American dream, getting everything I wanted with a little effort as possible to live happy"
now that the classes are getting more separated from the poor and the spoiled..the spoiled is going:
"no no remember? its about individual rights, and whats mine is mine. the capitalist dream! I own my own things outright..no one can take it...now your wanting to take some of it to help the others to make us closer to equal? sounds like COMMUNISM!!!"
sad as it is...the American dream is what ruined America. creating greedy, self serving capitalist.
edit: even being an american..it sickens me how "patriotic" most people are
wave an American flag at them, they will kill thier moms if they are told its the American thing to do.
every side of every political party uses it with their opinions to rally against the other side doing the same thing.
only thing that makes me an 'american' is what piece of land sticking out of the ocean I just happen to plop out onto, out of my mom. |
wow <3 Never heard the american dream described like that, awesome  |
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LeoNatan
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| Posted: Tue, 8th Jun 2010 23:29 Post subject: |
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OK seriously
http://www.youtube.com/watch#!v=H3kHnQie66U
I honestly don't think there is anyone here or in Europe at her age, that would ask something like "But... I thought America [or Africa] was a country..." I mean, seriously! 
Watch this, and then tell me with a straight face that the education there isn't in need of a total revolution. 
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DXWarlock
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| Posted: Tue, 8th Jun 2010 23:33 Post subject: |
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| iNatan wrote: | OK seriously
http://www.youtube.com/watch#!v=H3kHnQie66U
I honestly don't think there is anyone here or in Europe at her age, that would ask something like "But... I thought America [or Africa] was a country..." I mean, seriously! |
dunno when I was over there in Israel for training at my companies HQ, one of the engineers thought that Florida and the Florida keys (thought Florida,USA in the address gave it away myself) was part of cuba's land, because of all the Hispanic references/influences hes seen about it.
stupid people are just stupid..no amount of teaching will stop them from being that way..
i mean if you watch a TV show called "smarter than a 5th grader" dont expect the contestants to be jeopardy material..lol
ahd to edit..had the story wrong..had to correct it.
-We don't control what happens to us in life, but we control how we respond to what happens in life.
-Hard times create strong men, strong men create good times, good times create weak men, and weak men create hard times. -G. Michael Hopf
Disclaimer: Post made by me are of my own creation. A delusional mind relayed in text form.
Last edited by DXWarlock on Tue, 8th Jun 2010 23:41; edited 2 times in total
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deelix
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LeoNatan
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| Posted: Tue, 8th Jun 2010 23:37 Post subject: |
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It popped up on the side on my Teabonics video.
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deelix
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LeoNatan
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| Posted: Tue, 8th Jun 2010 23:41 Post subject: |
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Why, when they make such a great comic material?
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| Posted: Tue, 8th Jun 2010 23:44 Post subject: |
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@Leo, mate in here this kind of stupidty shows are scripted. There were twin girls, really really stupid girls, which shocked the whole nation here. A year after they did an interview with one of the people I know who works at a tv company and they were really intellectual girls. They even did mention Lacan, which I had no idea of then learned after that. In here it's Borat type trolling I don't know how it's in America but I don't want to believe a person can get THAT ignorant. Perhaps it's different there.
Edit: In before you hit me in the head for using the America term instead of The USA : )
Last edited by Lord_IpwnU on Tue, 8th Jun 2010 23:45; edited 1 time in total
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deelix
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| Posted: Wed, 9th Jun 2010 01:31 Post subject: |
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Come to think of it now I wish that bitch would just fucking off her fucking self she's degenerate junky with REALLY horrible personality that is made of cowardice and blame, I fucking hate her and she hates me for fucking so many ladies but not her, well what that fuck am I supposed to do, she's ugly, has a quadro fat chin, has the worst friends I've ever seen (degenerate punks and shit) and basically lives OFF weed and pills, fucks herself up with xanax and other shit to pass out in parties and HOPE for someone to ceize the opportunity
she blames ME for fucking a totally physically mature 17yo Satanic girl, what she says? really guess what she says? that I'm fucking a 17yo BABY, HOLY FUCK I DIDN'T KNOW YOU COULD STILL BE A BABY AT 17, fuck her and fuck all her life and I hope she dies miserably and alone while i'm still enjoying my life to the fullest
pity & attention whoring cunt, can't believe I thought of fucking her one day, that shit would give me nightmares, and it's only pity sex mind you to help her off her loneliness and she only KIND OF seemed worthy of a fuck and some little compassion because I was wearing vodka goggles and my mind isn't right while on vodka
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DXWarlock
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| Posted: Wed, 9th Jun 2010 01:34 Post subject: |
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thats what we was all saying all along
bitch needs to realize shes an adult, get off her ass and quit doing the baby hand grab thing while going "GIMME!!!"
-We don't control what happens to us in life, but we control how we respond to what happens in life.
-Hard times create strong men, strong men create good times, good times create weak men, and weak men create hard times. -G. Michael Hopf
Disclaimer: Post made by me are of my own creation. A delusional mind relayed in text form.
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Sin317
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| Posted: Wed, 9th Jun 2010 02:00 Post subject: |
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Frant
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| Posted: Wed, 9th Jun 2010 03:38 Post subject: |
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| bushwacka wrote: | | sabin1981 wrote: | Paying for education or healthcare is a preposterous idea. There is nothing any single person on this site can say, whatsoever, that will make me change my mind on that. America is the only country in the world that will kick you out of hospital, kick you right to the kerb, if you haven't got insurance or money to pay for healthcare. That's the "American Dream" is it? Well you can all fucking keep it
I'll keep my free education, my free healthcare, my well... pretty much anything the UK or Norway does is better than what America offers, so yeah; I'll just keep being non-American |
that's a kinda childish way to look at things. health care and education aren't free, someone has to pay for them.
in the US, you may have to pay extra for a health care plan - but then again, in other countries that provide "free" health care, that amount is simply taken from your income before it hits your bank account (like the income tax). and if you don't have a job or work freelance, you pay extra just like in the US. besides, the "free" healthcare doesn't always cover the best treatments available and especially if you're in serious shit in terms of health, you'd want the best one there is. which means getting extra (private) insurance.
and concerning education: i'd rather save up/take a loan before going to uni and get a fucking decent education where i'm a human and not one of a few thousand numbers, where there is top notch equipment instead of 70s shit, where there aren't only 50 seats in most courses and 200 students fighting over them. and then there's the specific example of getting a MBA, where your income is (more often than not) determined by which uni you went to, so your uni "investment" pays off hugely. now one may argue that this hurts the poor but intelligent students, but there are scholarships for those cases. |
Come back when you've actually been in Scandinavia and tried our public health care/schooling systems. There is absolutely no comparison. If you're not wealthy in the US to the point where you can pay for top notch private health care and private schools you're getting the short end of the stick. The wealthiest 5-10% may have access to equal or in some cases better health care/education but the rest of the people aren't getting the care or education they deserve (and thus doesn't have the competitive edge that wealthier people automatically get).
Certain things, like health care and education, should not depend on income. That system breeds injustices, increased differences between wealthy and poor, more suffering and poorly educated people etc... It's a selfish system.
Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn!
"The sky was the color of a TV tuned to a dead station" - Neuromancer
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zipfero
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| Posted: Wed, 9th Jun 2010 13:08 Post subject: |
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Nah man, that's nonsense. Norway has a population of less than five MILLION... and that's enough taxes for the government to afford national health and education. Now imagine America; 200? 300 MILLION people? All paying taxes? That's 300m tax payers, which is a fuck load more than Norway or any other Scandinavian country. With that much money coming in, the government could well afford to do what other countries do.
It's all comparative mate. It scales with the population. It's harder to manage a small country, in some ways, because there is less income.
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Makes me fucking depressed
