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Mantis2K9
Posts: 676
Location: London,England
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 Posted: Sun, 27th Jun 2010 21:11 Post subject: |
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I think whats also interesting about games consoles is in the next generation, who is going to release their console first ( my money is on Microsoft again ) and what functions are the next-gen consoles going to serve, I think the case is now, it's not just how good the graphics are but how user-friendly, interactive and what applications you can run on them.
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| Posted: Sun, 27th Jun 2010 21:20 Post subject: |
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Yes, too true. You don't make money with good consoles anymore, you need shitty peripherals that ruin a working control scheme in order to have the WOW-factor.
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LeoNatan
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| Posted: Sun, 27th Jun 2010 21:25 Post subject: |
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@Mantis2K9
I think what the 360 vs. PS3 fasco showed this generation that ease of development won. No matter if the machine is more powerful, if the development tools are awful and there is a steep learning curve, a lot of developers will stay away or develop an inferior version.
To be honest, until recently, the Core CPU was not used in any special way in the gaming market, so using it was probably a mistake for Sony. And still, sure, morphological antialiasing and rendering offloading to CPU is nice use of the Cell CPU, but still, it is more because of technical limitations of other hardware than real innovation. And MS went with RISC-based CPU, as opposed to x86 based one, because of price and to counter the criticism people had against the original Xbox, which basically had a +/- Pentium 3 CPU. I doubt MS would go that way the next round, but who knows. And not like the move from x86 to RISC (and the opposite) is anything serious, especially when most software is C++ and DirectX is the API. It is unlikely that Sony will make a similar mistake again. This also answers your previous post, I think. 
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| Posted: Mon, 28th Jun 2010 18:55 Post subject: |
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Well for me it's very sad that they are planning to hold on to this generation for 5 more years.
I play console games, only those that don't come out for PC, like the recent RDR and it already looks very dated. Sure the game is fun, and in the end that matters the most, but if they had a better platform the game would be fun and good looking. Where are 1080p, high resolution textures, advanced physics and the promised 60fps?
The truth is, this generation is becoming outdated fast. Sure it still works for the derps out there (hell they still sell the ps2), but for those that want more it just doesn't cut it anymore, and i can't imagine it still working 5 years from now.
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| Posted: Mon, 28th Jun 2010 20:23 Post subject: |
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RDR looks fantastic, But it uses GTAIV engine so i guess it would run very similar to gtaiv on pc,which is awfull.
But I agree. framerate could be at least 30fps stable not lowering to like 20 sometimes(rare though)
3080 | ps5 pro
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| Posted: Wed, 30th Jun 2010 00:12 Post subject: |
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Believe it or not, the PS3 is finally making money for Sony.
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LeoNatan
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| Posted: Wed, 30th Jun 2010 00:14 Post subject: |
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Heh, so Microsoft is the only one left who actually still loses money on the 360.  Is it a surprise then that they are setting the grounds for five more years?
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LeoNatan
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| Posted: Wed, 30th Jun 2010 00:20 Post subject: |
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Sabin, Microsoft has been losing money, and still is, on every system sold. That is, it costs more to make one than it costs to buy one.
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| Posted: Wed, 30th Jun 2010 00:23 Post subject: |
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I just don't buy it mate, I really don't.
"Our machine costs £500 to make, but we're selling it to you at the low low price of only £150!!1 Plus, if you act now, we'll even throw in a FREE three year warranty! Absolutely free!"
Sorry, I just don't buy it.. it would be absolutely INSANE business sense.
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LeoNatan
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| Posted: Wed, 30th Jun 2010 00:47 Post subject: |
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You can "not buy it" as you like, but this has been true on any major console release for generations. The only difference has been so far, that with revisions and hardware cost going down, more efficient manufacturing lines, etc., eventually tides turn and they start making money on it. This was true for PlayStation, PlayStation 2 and obviously PlayStation 3.
It has been true for Nintendo as well, except with the Wii, because it is using such an outdated hardware.
With Microsoft, this is even more funny, because instead of promoting the PC market as their main gaming market, a market they make the most revenues out of, and have major interest in, they lose crazy amounts of money just to be the most adopted console. And as much as they try to hide it with fancy words, numbers don't lie, Microsoft is losing crazy amounts of money on the whole Xbox program. Rumors now are that even the Kinect will be losing them a lot of money. What with the RROD replacements, the Xbox 360 should be a black stop in Microsoft's financial history. 
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| Posted: Wed, 30th Jun 2010 00:52 Post subject: |
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Sega lost crazy amounts of money on the DC and subsequently pulled out of the hardware market, so MS/Sony/whomever losing money on their machines... yet constantly pumping out newer versions and STILL losing money? It's not logical man. It makes absolutely ZERO business sense and there's no way a board of directors, or the stock holders, would allow it :\
Meh. Maybe I'm just missing some huge, critical, business strategy where it actually makes sense to sell something for less than it cost to make. I dunno. *shrugs*
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LeoNatan
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| Posted: Wed, 30th Jun 2010 00:56 Post subject: |
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Well, both companies have a huge back bone. Sony has been hit quite a lot harder than Microsoft, obviously, because the last few years have seen hardware sales go down somewhat, so every department had less revenues, but still enough to carry the sinking ship.
As for Microsoft, they are a software company primarily, and that is where they make their big bucks. Corporate software. They make so much money, in fact, that the crazy little experiment called "Xbox" they made to see if they could pull it off is at its second generation. It's losing money, sure, but the brand and "Microsoft" itself is now known everywhere. I guess that is why they are willing to lose money.
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LeoNatan
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| Posted: Wed, 30th Jun 2010 00:59 Post subject: |
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Yes, but the Xbox department losses include all the revenues from loyalties and testing. That is the funny part. Even with Xbox Live, crazy charges they want for game releases, DLC, MSP, all that shit, and they still lose money. 
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| Posted: Wed, 30th Jun 2010 00:59 Post subject: |
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Yeah, but that's like EA putting out a new shooter that cost $100m to make, selling it for $1, and then saying "it's ok, we make enough money on The Sims anyway, we don't care about losing money on this new game"
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LeoNatan
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| Posted: Wed, 30th Jun 2010 01:03 Post subject: |
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@sabin1981
Yes, but you are looking at things a little out of perspective. Say EA sells that game for 10$ because they make their money elsewhere. Now, imagine that they will be selling it for the next 5 years at least, at a steady rate, without any major updates or expansions. And later you can introduce a cheaper for you disk to manufacture and call it "Slim" or "Special" and charge 10$ again, which is a lot higher than the original after inflation. You can see why a company could go this route. Sony, Sega, Nintendo, they all went this road, and the successful ones still with us, while the unfortunate are puny publishers now. 
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| Posted: Wed, 30th Jun 2010 01:04 Post subject: |
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They just want to be involved into everything concerning software. Take a look at Apple. They were really big in the computer business once but they "closed" themselves to competitors and possible partners. Eventually the market moved in a different direction and today, I consider macs obsolete (they cost more but they can't do more).
Now Microsoft sees this big console thing and they think "IF this turns out to be big and takes over PC gaming, we want to be part of it". They need to establish a brand that allows them to shape the market.
Take XBL as an example: before XBL online gaming was free and MS was considered nuts by many people because they charged for it, but nowdays nobody complains about it anymore. It is considered a service that is worth paying for.
Another example is DLC. With the Xbox1, they practically established console DLC from the ground up and today it allows them to make easy money with map packs and new costumes.
Last edited by me7 on Wed, 30th Jun 2010 01:12; edited 1 time in total
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LeoNatan
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Location: Ramat HaSharon, Israel 🇮🇱
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| Posted: Wed, 30th Jun 2010 01:09 Post subject: |
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@me7
About Apple, absolutely. Is Apple still a personal computer company? I don't know. To me it looks like its primary output these days is consumer electronics.
But as much as Microsoft wants to enter that market, lets admit it, their hardware is hardly successful, at least financially so. Zune is nowhere near they wanted it to be. Prognosis for Windows Phone 7 looks dire (why, no shit, they abandoned the market that gave them power in order to create an OS X knock off, which rivals it in how much locked down it is). Xbox is losing them big money. Anyone even remember Windows Media Center PCs?
Their primary source of cash is still operating systems, Office, server suites and developer tools.
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| Posted: Wed, 30th Jun 2010 01:22 Post subject: |
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PC software still is their main product but this success is one of the reasons why they can finance experiments in the first place. Why not look what is going on on other markets? Maybe they can change the way the console market evolves into something that suits them best?
As I mentioned in my previous edit, selling services as XBL or software upgrades like DLC was something that Sony or Nintendo didn't consider but it worked. MS pushed consoles into a territory where they feel at home.
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LeoNatan
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Posts: 73314
Location: Ramat HaSharon, Israel 🇮🇱
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| Posted: Wed, 30th Jun 2010 01:26 Post subject: |
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Yes, the territory of milking the cow and cash whoring.
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| Posted: Wed, 30th Jun 2010 01:39 Post subject: |
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| Posted: Wed, 30th Jun 2010 01:46 Post subject: |
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LeoNatan
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Posts: 73314
Location: Ramat HaSharon, Israel 🇮🇱
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| Posted: Wed, 30th Jun 2010 01:49 Post subject: |
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Well, actually I wouldn't, because I am an idealist, so first and foremost principles, or don't do at all if not possible. Then again, maybe that is why I am not running a multi-billion dollar company.
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| Posted: Wed, 30th Jun 2010 01:57 Post subject: |
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@Spiderman
Thanks, that's actually a pretty indepth article. I'm going to check it out later <3
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LeoNatan
☢ NFOHump Despot ☢
Posts: 73314
Location: Ramat HaSharon, Israel 🇮🇱
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| Posted: Wed, 30th Jun 2010 02:04 Post subject: |
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@Damonika ( )
Yep, and they did with PS "One", PS2 Slim, and they will keep doing it. MS would be foolish not to do it. Creating a new SKU means first, the price/cost ratio is a lot larger now and two, have a huge marketing campaign how they make it smaller and cheaper, so everyone runs to buy it again.
Edit: Eh, better delete this or I'll be called a troll. 
| me7 wrote: | Is that why you pirate all your software?  |
I do? 
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