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Nui
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LeoNatan
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 Posted: Sun, 4th Jul 2010 15:23 Post subject: |
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OnLive is using their own encoding algorithm, far less advanced than H264, and are encoding blocks of information in dedicated hardware chips, not software, like x264. There is still some lag, but nothing like 10ms. 
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crossmr
Posts: 2966
Location: United Kingdom
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| Posted: Sun, 4th Jul 2010 15:26 Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Right now the video quality is pretty terrible (looks like youtube on the lowest setting, but higher resolution) |
That's impossible, smith01 was just regaling us with tales of how crisp and amazing it is..
intel ultra 7 265k, 64gb ram, 3070
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| Posted: Sun, 4th Jul 2010 15:55 Post subject: |
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| Nui wrote: | | Diary Of An x264 Developer wrote: | | x264 can achieve end-to-end latency (not including transport) of under 10 milliseconds for an 800×600 video stream. |
So onlive would still have an Input Lag of 10ms + 2 x Ping ? As I've never had a ping below 30ms that would total to at least 70ms.
And 800x600 itself is...  |
That 30ms is actually "Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds", so realistically we could see around 40ms using such a solution with local servers which is pretty good. The 800x600 was just the example given in that article, you could do higher resolutions too.
| iNatan wrote: | | OnLive is using their own encoding algorithm, far less advanced than H264, and are encoding blocks of information in dedicated hardware chips, not software, like x264. There is still some lag, but nothing like 10ms. |
Yeah, I know, I'm just saying that even using free public tools its not an impossibility for such a service to be useful.
When I was trying out my friends onlive account I actually logged the IP it was streaming from with wireshark, but it doesn't respond to pings so I can't know for sure how bad the actual latency is to their server from here.
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Nui
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LeoNatan
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| Posted: Sun, 4th Jul 2010 16:08 Post subject: |
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Onlive does not encode in the method x264 encodes. Each rendered frame is split into blocks (I think it's 16x16) and they are encoded separately on dedicated hardware. You are looking at 2ms at most for encoding and final image composition.
Of course, this method is in no way optimal for quality, so image of course suffers considerably.
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| Posted: Sun, 4th Jul 2010 16:11 Post subject: |
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A service such as this will never be possible (unless we find a way to make FTL broadbands, lawl).
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| Posted: Sun, 4th Jul 2010 16:15 Post subject: |
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Yeah, I still wouldn't want to play a full game with 40ms input lag but I think it could have merit as a way of trying demos without having to wait for the increasingly large chunk (what is the average now, 5gb?) of content data to download.
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| Posted: Sun, 4th Jul 2010 20:26 Post subject: |
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| apeape wrote: | | Yeah, I still wouldn't want to play a full game with 40ms input lag but I think it could have merit as a way of trying demos without having to wait for the increasingly large chunk (what is the average now, 5gb?) of content data to download. |
It is increasingly faster to download any game. Plus it's a one time thing. Steam does pretty good, with all those users downloading stuff all the time.
Speed is improved all the time. Latency ... not so much.
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| Posted: Sun, 4th Jul 2010 21:34 Post subject: |
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I like the idea that i dont need to update my computer anymore. I hope they get it work if price it 5e month and i get all new games with multiplayer option they will get my money.
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| Posted: Sun, 4th Jul 2010 23:11 Post subject: |
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Lol, the generic internet user has spoken.
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-=Cartoon=-
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Location: South Pacific Ocean
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| Posted: Tue, 6th Jul 2010 20:08 Post subject: |
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i got invited to the founding members free first year offer too. i was interested in seeing how it worked but i didn't know you'd be limited to your computer. i don't buy into steam or streaming shit for games at all myself. give me my physical copy or fuck off but i did want to see how well this worked. oh well maybe they'll get that little micro console gizmo going soon and i'll check it out then.
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LeoNatan
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| Posted: Wed, 7th Jul 2010 23:02 Post subject: |
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Nui
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LeoNatan
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| Posted: Sat, 10th Jul 2010 15:36 Post subject: |
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| Posted: Sat, 10th Jul 2010 15:52 Post subject: |
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It just needs major fine tuning this service and it will be on par with consoles/pc's easily imo.
Don't forget it's not even out yet.
It will take fix after fix to fine tune.
But i won't be buying it either way.
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LeoNatan
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| Posted: Sat, 10th Jul 2010 15:58 Post subject: |
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Frant
King's Bounty
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| Posted: Sat, 10th Jul 2010 16:03 Post subject: |
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| Posted: Sat, 10th Jul 2010 16:03 Post subject: |
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| Posted: Sat, 10th Jul 2010 22:52 Post subject: |
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| Theescapist wrote: | It just needs major fine tuning this service and it will be on par with consoles/pc's easily imo.
Don't forget it's not even out yet.
It will take fix after fix to fine tune.
But i won't be buying it either way. |
You can't "fix" mathematics, video encoding has limitations and at the speed they need and the bandwidth limitations you will never get good picture quality.
The article also discusses latency, even in the best cases it still doesn't feel fluid. And the framerate regularly drops below 30fps in games that run at steady 30fps on X360.
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| Posted: Sat, 10th Jul 2010 23:54 Post subject: |
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This "technology" will be a step behind for computer hardware development.
More than ever, we live in a world, where the only thing that matters is the instant revenue.
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Freudian
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| Posted: Sun, 11th Jul 2010 08:22 Post subject: |
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| Posted: Sun, 11th Jul 2010 09:07 Post subject: |
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LeoNatan
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| Posted: Sun, 11th Jul 2010 09:15 Post subject: |
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That low quality almost has a hand-drawn quality to it.  In some ways, this is also art. 
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Ankh
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Surray
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| Posted: Sun, 11th Jul 2010 09:26 Post subject: |
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hmm
the quality does look horrible there.
I've seen videos where it looks much better. I wonder if the quality varies somehow?
-edit-
k looking at the screens it's kinda obvious it uses a variable bitrate and the quality drops when there's lots of movement. too bad because it looks reasonable otherwise.
Likot Mosuskekim, Woodcutter cancels Sleep: Interrupted by Elephant.
Last edited by Surray on Sun, 11th Jul 2010 09:29; edited 1 time in total
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| Posted: Sun, 11th Jul 2010 09:27 Post subject: |
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Still, idea is interesting (like terminals in 70-80s).
And, if eventually cost of high bandwidth needed to have such service properly (not as it is, in current state), exceeds cost of home computer, it will be success. Otherwise...
Last edited by peter980 on Sun, 11th Jul 2010 09:30; edited 1 time in total
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