I'd be far more interested in Bioware taking lessons from R* than the other way around.
R* is more about the player himself creating, and immersing himeself in adventures of his own in a open world (yes, it's good if the player has some ideas/imagination). While Bioware is more about the devs holding the hand of their ADHD gamers throughout the whole experience, entertaining them by handing things to them directly all the time, instead of letting the player explore the world by his own, which is far more interesting gameplay-wise.
I agree that Rockstar does the open-world part well, but this is in the end just an illusion of choice. The problem is that no matter how lovingly crafted their worlds are; once you have done all the quests there's invariably very little left to do other than riding/driving around and killing people. The world then ends up feeling empty and pointless, much like the situation would be if you could keep playing a BioWare game after the main story ended. Even worlds as detailed as the R* ones only feel relevant when you have a purpose in them.
When it comes to character development though, it's completely the other way around in my opinion. You can't do much in the way of immersing yourself character-wise in a typical Rockstar game, since aside from taking quests you can't really interact with people in any way other than killing them. And in what little (and always quest-related) dialogue there is, the personality of your character is all hammered out already, you don't get any kind of influence as a player. I guess it can be argued that R* do sandbox games and not RPGs, but as they go to such lengths to put you in the shoes of a particular character, it just gets annoying how much you are at the mercy of how their writers think you should respond to a given situation.
BioWare of course may most of the time leave you with choices that essentially boil down to nice, neutral or mean, but at least you get to choose.
i get way more 'in to' bioware games than i do R* ones. R* games are all about the fucking around... you go into a R* game and just dick around till you get bored then play something else. bioware atleast makes characters i care about and weave interesting stories and draw me in to the game.
if i had to pick between an immersive fun game and a dicking around simulator, give me biowares immersive games any day.
People playing R* or Bethesda's games mostly doing stupid shit (killing everyone in sight, running everyone over with the car or whatever) just dont get it, it'll get stupid and dull as fuck in no time.. and yes, they probably need a Bioware story to stick to instead to get some controll over their ADHD-like behavior that seems run amok with free roaming games.
Bioware writes decent stories, they have decent characters, but only compared to games, read a book and you quickly realize exactly how shitty it is. I personally prefer to read a good sci-fi or fantasy book over playing any Bioware game..
Last edited by vurt on Sun, 29th Aug 2010 03:14; edited 1 time in total
...what you dont understand is that people DO that shit because the other stuff in the game just arent any good. we dick around because thats ALL there is to r* games. theyre too unfocused and theres just not enough charm in their games to make you want to follow its progression.
and as for your response... 'need a bioware story to stick to instead' so we dont get bored... im confused by that, honestly... why WOULDNT i want a game with a story and decent characters.. why SHOULDNT i want more than an empty shell of a game that consists of nothing BUT fucking around...
Last edited by chiv on Sun, 29th Aug 2010 03:16; edited 1 time in total
it's because you have no imagination.. i can roleplay The Sims and have a blast, same with Bethesda's games or R*.. It does require imagination, and it does require you to not run amok just because you can. Nothing to do? i think there's pleny of side quests and exploring to do (far more than any new Bioware game anyways), or i just set up my own goals.
what does imagination have to do with lack of endearing characters or story? all the imagination in the world wont keep me playing a game or going through a story campaign if everything is disinteresting.... ill find other things to occupy my time, sure, but i WONT be following the core story the game is built around...
so really all im doing is extending my dicking around period...but it wont make the core of the game... the characters or the story progression, any more enjoyable or enticing...
there is a lot to be said for a focused gameplay experience. and if you ARENT going to have one, and opt for a HUGE expansive sandbox environment instead, then youd better be damn good at making characters and story interesting enough to make the player WANT to guide THEMSELVES and immerse themselves in the game.
R* just cant do that. They succeed in creating huge worlds, thats fine, but they fail at everything else... and if all you want is a sandbox with nothing in it and only your 'imagination' to drive the game for you, then thats fine too i guess.... but just realise that 'imagination' is YOUR work, and YOUR 'talent'... not R* showing their brilliance
I don't think Bioware have that much better characters than R* to be honest, but they're much better than Bethesda, which sucks at both story and characters (they're still my favorite game dev though, which i guess says a lot of what i prefer in games).
I don't play games for story or characters. I dont think games is a good enough medium for that, at least it hasnt really proven itself to be yet. There are a few games where you can begin to see the potential of it though (Planescape has an almost book quality like story, for example, though the rest of the game is very mediocre.) For me games are about the stuff that movies and books can't give me, such as exploring or collecting.
Those playing Bioware games seems to be people really wanting books but instead they play games because they don't know any better (or can't read books because they never developed an own imagination). A good sci-fi or fantasy book would probably blow their mind, if they ever read one.
I don't think I've ever completely played a Rockstar game to the end. I like their games well enough, and hope RDR does come to PC... but I never feel the need to finish them and most of the time the stories aren't really worth it. Running over hookers or jumping off buildings stops being fun after a week or two. It's not really about imagination or lack there of, it's just a limit of an open world format. There's really not that much to do in it that doesn't become repeatative after a while.
There is the obvious difference between stories told through games and stories told through other mediums though, that in the game you can be a central part of the story and not just an observer. This in my opinion goes a long way towards making up eventual shortcomings of a story told through this format. Though like Cartoon said I think several games have told excellent stories, and I hope developers will keep trying to work great stories into games in the future too, as opposed to just focusing on multiplayer and open-world parts.
There might be something to be said for providing the player with the tools to create his/her own experience too, but this has to be done extremely rigorously (which the R* games often prove when you feel there's just no incentive to play the game other than to mess around a bit), or you end up with the Will Wright scenario.
I don't know why you keep comparing story-driven games to books, vurt. Those are two completely different things and experiences. I've read hundreds of fantasy or sci-fi books, and yes, some of them blow my mind, but I'll still play a good story-driven game and it'll quite probably blow my mind too. There are things books are better at, there are also some games are better at - comparing the two doesn't have much sense. Hell, I've played thousands of pnp RPG sessions, many of which had a story that could top both a game and a book, but still, that doesn't mean I won't play a good cRPG. Or read a good book. Or watch a good movie. Different mediums, different experiences. Are any of them better? Not really. Just different, and just as good, in their own way.
Also - the fact that some people don't like R* games doesn't neceserilly mean they've got no imagination. It just means they want something meaningfull to do in their games, and so far R* hasn't managed to provide that. I can imagine things all day, set up new goals and all, but for me, it doesn't change the fact that the game is hollow. I've got better ways to use my imagination (pnp RPG, writing).
There are some exceptions - Morrowind would be my first choice - and that's exactly because it has both: great story, great atmosphere AND a lot of great exploration and customization (though many of the characters and dialogues still sucked balls). Oblivion, on the other hand, had only one of those and it bored me a million times faster.
just to bring this up, i actually can enjoy games that have a shit core story and shitty dull characters, and crappy gameplay, as long as it has great atmosphere and a well realized world.
case and point, im STILL playing fallout 3 here... game sucks in every aspect apart from having some of the most immersive atmosphere ive come across in quite a while... but hey thats just me.
if r* could just get THIS much right, id be able to put up with all their other failings.
Played this on my friends xbox yesterday, I actually hope this does come to pc, it was refreshing being in a western themed game for once, wasn't too bad, though I felt like shit when I stabbed a horse in the butt with a huge knife
Played this on my friends xbox yesterday, I actually hope this does come to pc, it was refreshing being in a western themed game for once, wasn't too bad, though I felt like shit when I stabbed a horse in the butt with a huge knife
Hey SpykeZ, You sure that was just a knife?
Nui wrote:
Because digital shipping takes time. Think of all the digital boats and their digital captains.
Just bought the ps3 version, cool game even though the controls are overwhelming at times.
Been listening to some Ennio Morricone music lately and its a shame you cant add music to the game. Just imagine riding to some bandit hangout while Morricones Ecstasy of Gold is playing. Gives me goosebumps.
Dont mess with God, he can impregnate your girlfriend/wife without taking his pants off!
Just bought the ps3 version, cool game even though the controls are overwhelming at times.
Been listening to some Ennio Morricone music lately and its a shame you cant add music to the game. Just imagine riding to some bandit hangout while Morricones Ecstasy of Gold is playing. Gives me goosebumps.
I wondered why you posted this in the PC section. Then I realized why: no one in the console forum would understand that Ennio Morricone isn't another DLC.
Just bought the ps3 version, cool game even though the controls are overwhelming at times.
Been listening to some Ennio Morricone music lately and its a shame you cant add music to the game. Just imagine riding to some bandit hangout while Morricones Ecstasy of Gold is playing. Gives me goosebumps.
I wondered why you posted this in the PC section. Then I realized why: no one in the console forum would understand that Ennio Morricone isn't another DLC.
P.S.
Yea, I was mean, but couldn't help it.
Was hopeing maybe the pc version would have this...
Dont mess with God, he can impregnate your girlfriend/wife without taking his pants off!
7% of Take-Two's revenue was from PC
80% from PS360
In 2009:
14% was from PC
46% was from PS360 (PS3 alone was 13%, which means a bit less than on PC!)
Since they haven't released RDR to PC it's understandable that their PC sales are only 7% this year.
BTW I am 100% sure that RDR will appear on PC when the time is right (with the re-release of the Game of the Year edition to consoles or something like that )
edit the report confirms that we won't see a PC version in 2010 as it isn't listed in their schedule
BTW I am 100% sure that RDR will appear on PC when the time is right (with the re-release of the Game of the Year edition to consoles or something like that ) :
LOL yeah, they'll release a game two years after the console version, then cry piracy is killing PC gaming. I for one will enjoy pirating the hell out of it, no matter how good it is - fuck if I'll pay for some old game. Let the sell outs throw cash at these corporate sons of bitches, just like they did for AC2.
My sensation is that the game will come to PC once the rush of DLCs on consoles will stop. According to my hypotetical crystal ball we'll play the game on Q2 2011
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I for one will enjoy pirating the hell out of it, no matter how good it is - fuck if I'll pay for some old game. Let the sell outs throw cash at these corporate sons of bitches, just like they did for AC2. 
