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| Page 34 of 63 |
fisk
Posts: 9145
Location: Von Oben
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 Posted: Wed, 8th Dec 2010 18:41 Post subject: |
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| mag2005 wrote: | | What you're saying is a guy who's stronger and bigger is a better fighter? Serra is the smaller guy in the fight. Bigger and stronger guys can dictate the fight too, but it doesn't mean they're better. Most BJJ guys are not wrestler. GSP worked with world class wrestlers so his wrestling is obviously better. But taking guy down doesn't mean you are a better fighter either. GSP is a smart fighter and a superior wrestler than Serra. If it was K1 fight between Serra and GSP, I would bet on Serra. |
They weigh the same, GSP is a bit taller, but that's it. As for the better fighter argument, Matt Serra is not better than GSP at MMA. GSP is ranked among the pound for pound best fighters in MMA in the world, Matt Serra caught him that night - he had the puncher's chance and got it, you only need to hit someone once to knock him out - that's it. Every practicioner of MMA knows this, it's why you see one dimensional strikers have very mixed statistics for wins and losses, and usually they win when they face an equally one-dimensional opponent that fights them at their own game (ie. stands up to see if they "got it" (Damian Maia vs Nate Marquart is a great example of this).
Josh Koscheck versus Georges St. Pierre is a damn interesting match, especially since both are exceptional wrestlers, which SHOULD mean that they will nullify each other on the ground. Both of them have become extremely hard to keep down. If that means the fight turns into a standup war, then I believe Koscheck will win - especially if it takes place close quarters. Koscheck has one-punch knock-out power - GSP's standup is great, but I believe him to be more technical than landing match-stoppers.
Yes, yes I'm back.
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mag2005
Posts: 611
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| Posted: Thu, 9th Dec 2010 06:58 Post subject: |
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fisk, weighing the same at weigh-ins is not the same as on fight night. GSP is a natural middleweight and Serra can actually fight at lightweight. Yes, I agree GSP is a better fighter in MMA, but mainly due to his wrestling skills and strength. GSP is not a better striker though. At the end of the day, whoever win, moved up in rank. Whether it's by quick KO or not, if you beat the other guy, you are the better man.
BTW, GSP have been training more with Freddy Roach and spar with world champion boxers, so who know how much he improved on his striking. I don't see his fight with Koscheck end by KO or TKO, it'll be a 5 rounders or GSP get a sub.
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fisk
Posts: 9145
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| Posted: Thu, 9th Dec 2010 19:20 Post subject: |
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| mag2005 wrote: | | fisk, weighing the same at weigh-ins is not the same as on fight night. |
Serra has been fighting at around 170 for nearly his entire MMA-career.
| Quote: |
If you beat the other guy, you are the better man.
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Complete nonsense, if you dominate or show greater skills. Then yes. Everyone has a puncher's chance, and some punchers have even moreso. There are so many fights where a flash-KO ended the fight but proved absolutely nothing, just like there are several submission wins that did not prove who was the better fighter. Your reasoning is flawed for so many reasons it's stupid. For instance, MMA-fighters fight while injured all the time, it's a part of the game - Silva took a match with broken ribs, Ortiz has been fighting with spine injury for the past few years, Shogun has fought for years with impaired knees, and Parisyan lacks a hamstring in one of his legs. Not mentioning staph-infections, bad weigh-cuts, emotional stress, cage-fever (ie. new to the cage) et cetera. And these are just some criteria. You could say for instance that Rich Franklin is a better fighter than Chuck Liddell - but what Chuck and what Rich are you comparing? Are you saying that glass-jaw Chuck would be beat? Then yeah - I would've agreed with you, but age and will (ie. knowing he will never be the champ again) will play a big part in it.
There are fights where a fighter will slip, resulting in dropping his guard to keep his balance and getting caught, there are times where a completely inexperienced striker will land a strike on the button of an experienced striker. In those cases it does not reveal who the better fighter is, just who won the fight that night.
I suppose you think that the UFC-flunky who won agains Fedor is a better fighter than Fedor too?
Get the fuck out.
Yes, yes I'm back.
Somewhat.
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| Posted: Fri, 10th Dec 2010 01:52 Post subject: |
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He was better that day, that's for sure.
Who the hell dives inside a jiujitsu master's guard ?
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| Posted: Fri, 10th Dec 2010 01:53 Post subject: |
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| VGAdeadcafe wrote: | He was better that day, that's for sure.
Who the hell dives inside a jiujitsu master's guard ? |
You mean like Fedor did multiple times against Nog?
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mag2005
Posts: 611
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| Posted: Fri, 10th Dec 2010 02:18 Post subject: |
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fisk, why are you angry at me? Opinions are to be taken lightly and they are subjective.
Several of Serra early UFC fights and fights before he came to UFC are at light weight. He lost to BJ for the vacant UFC lightweight belt.
MMA is not just about skills, but taken advantages of mistakes. Why do you think a lot of guys stall? They wait for mistake and opening. A quick KO or sub is a result of that. It doesn't make sense to say a guy that beat the other guy is not the better fighter.
Sure GSP might be the better fighter now, but Serra made GSP look silly in the first fight. GSP falling back covering and not liking getting hit. GSP improved since the first fight, hence he is the better man. On the night of his defeat, I bet you GSP would even admit that Serra is the better fighter. I am not saying Serra is always the better fighter than GSP. Just don't tell me that Serra or anyone else can never be a better fighter than GSP. Fighters are constantly improving if they are dedicated.
Fedor, GSP, Shogun, and Hendo are some of my favorite fighters, but even I can tell you if they get quick KO or sub, that the other fighter is better, even if it seem flunky. That's subjective of course. In sports, results are the only thing that matter. Yes, I believe Werdum is better than Fedor right now that is until Fedor can beat Werdum. Do I think that Fedor can beat Werdum, hell yes. Fedor is not a man to make the same mistake twice, but what make MMA exciting is that you never know 100% sure who's going to win.
If a person who's new to MMA and never follow GSP or Fedor and saw their quick losses, even they will think that Serra and Werdum are the better fighters.
It's hard to not be bias in MMA same with your favorite teams/fighters.
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fisk
Posts: 9145
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| Posted: Fri, 10th Dec 2010 07:41 Post subject: |
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It is one thing when it is a matter of opinion, it is quite another when it is a matter of fact. A fighter like Fedor that has completely dominated MMA to the point where he is considered among the top three pound for pound best fighters in the world simply is a better fighter than Fabricio Werdum. If they fought 10 fights, Fedor would very likely win 8 simply because he is more versatile, more experienced and well-rounded.
The same thing with GSP and Serra, except GSP would win 8 out of 10. The thing about striking is that it's one aspect, we are talking about MMA here, you need to be good at everything - wrestling, boxing, jiu-jitsu, muay-thai, et cetera. If you fight Anderson in the Clinch you will lose, if you fight Anderson while standing, you will lose, hell if you fight Anderson on the ground - you will lose. This is why he is the better fighter, not because he manages to catch you once while you were going for the takedown.
Yes, yes I'm back.
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ChinUp
Posts: 5503
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| Posted: Sat, 11th Dec 2010 11:05 Post subject: |
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link < K1 stream
"Most of the change we think we see in life is due to truths being in & out of favor." ~ Frost
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mag2005
Posts: 611
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| Posted: Sun, 12th Dec 2010 06:57 Post subject: |
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fisk, you're mixing the term "better fighter" with "great/best fighter". Fedor/GSP are some of the best fighter but even the best fighter lose to some good fighter. A "better fighter mean that the other fighter beat the other fighter. A better team is a winning team, it doesn't mean they are the best. Hallman submitted Hughes twice in under 20 seconds, but by your logic Hallman is not a better fighter than Hughes? Hallman is not a great fighter like Hughes or accomplish anything like Hughes, but he sure can beat Hughes therefore is he a better fighter than Hughes not necessary that Hallman is the best fighter. I think objectively.
Anyway, UFC 124, best fight I would say goes to Alves/Howard. Howard has one tough chin. Highlight reel goes to Danzig/Stevenson fight. Best sub goes to Bocek/Hazelett fight. Funny fight to watch, Pierson/Riddle fight. Riddle goes wild with punches while eating jab after jab and saying "bring it" or close to it. The main event was ok. GSP dominated a one-eye Koscheck for 4 and a half round with jabs.
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ChinUp
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| Posted: Sun, 12th Dec 2010 14:12 Post subject: |
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Glad Kos got an egg on his face & the fans got a fight rather than a blanket party. The Miller brothers were on form, Thiago looked very solid with improved TDD he will be very hard to stop.
"Most of the change we think we see in life is due to truths being in & out of favor." ~ Frost
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fisk
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| Posted: Sun, 12th Dec 2010 14:56 Post subject: |
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| mag2005 wrote: | | fisk, you're mixing the term "better fighter" with "great/best fighter". Fedor/GSP are some of the best fighter but even the best fighter lose to some good fighter. |
You are mixing up who won that night with who is/was the better fighter. Anyone can catch anyone it doesn't make them a/the better fighter.
| Quote: |
A "better fighter mean that the other fighter beat the other fighter.
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No, a better fighter means that you are a better fighter. This argument of yours has slid into a ditch, just drop it.
| Quote: |
Hallman submitted Hughes twice in under 20 seconds, but by your logic Hallman is not a better fighter than Hughes? Hallman is not a great fighter like Hughes or accomplish anything like Hughes, but he sure can beat Hughes therefore is he a better fighter than Hughes not necessary that Hallman is the best fighter. I think objectively. |
You seem to have a difficulty reading, check a couple of posts back. What Hughes are you comparing Hallman with? Hughes eleven years ago, or Hughes in his prime that beat B.J and St. Pierre (3-4 years ago). Back in 2000, Hallman probably was the better fighter of the two. But Hughes got more experience, evolved in all areas while Hallman faded after the fights in 2000. Being the better fighter is not a constant, you need to be in good shape, you need to keep training and stay focused. It is several aspects that make you a better fighter, but you are always risking getting caught, no matter who you are.
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As for UFC124, I think this once again cements UFC as the world's best fighting organization in MMA. Great event that overshadows the flash-KO-clinic that was the last SF. GSP making Koscheck look bad was awesome, and I did not predict that fight to be so one-sided. Koscheck's takedown defense was impeccable, but wow did GSP prove again why he is among the pound for pound best fighters in the world. Simply astonishing. I'm glad Koscheck didn't get lucky with winging one of those haymakers, because I'm not sure about GSP's chin.
Yes, yes I'm back.
Somewhat.
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mag2005
Posts: 611
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| Posted: Sun, 12th Dec 2010 18:54 Post subject: |
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I will drop it because you obviously have a different definition of "better fighter". So does every quick KO or sub mean that a person got caught now?
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fisk
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| Posted: Sun, 12th Dec 2010 20:06 Post subject: |
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| mag2005 wrote: | | So does every quick KO or sub mean that a person got caught now? |
You keep missing my point, so do I have to spell it out or are you deliberately trying to ignore what I write?
Yes, yes I'm back.
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| Posted: Sun, 12th Dec 2010 22:42 Post subject: |
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| djaoni wrote: | I check sherdog after every UFC event to see why I left that forum and it never disappoints.
"GSP can't finish fights" threads x 42304. 
Complete one-sided domination, but it still wasn't enough for the tools over there. It shows why jabs need to be trained more in MMA. It disrupts your opponent so much when they get a jab in the face constantly.
Good event overall. Joe Stevenson needs to go back to wrestling. |
I agree with those people to some extent. How can he not finish fighters that are clearly fighting a far, FAR superior fighter. Fitch, Hardy, Kos, Alves had absolutely nothing to offer, yet GSP still had to take them to a decision. Heck, Hardy looked like he just woke up after the fight.
Take a look at SF fight card. Fights were mismatches, no horrible mismatches, but still, and it showed with the lesser fighter getting KO'ed.
Or take a look at Silva's fights, before he became the dancing ballerina. He was a better fighter and he let his opponents know to the point where Cote was running away the whole fight.
It is just Ive never seen, or remember, fighter being so much better than his competition and yet, he cannot finish anyone. Maybe Fedor vs Nog, but then Nog did have an iron chin and was legendary for taking heaps of punishment.
And the decisions can be exiting like Fedor/CC, Chuck/Wandy, and many more, it is the problem with the way GSP is getting there.
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ChinUp
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Big_Gun
Posts: 3017
Location: My mother's womb originally. . .
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| Posted: Sat, 18th Dec 2010 05:20 Post subject: |
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Best KO ever in MMA? It has to be right up there.
1 stripe purple belt in JiuJitsu (good grief this takes FOREVER hahah)
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| Posted: Sat, 18th Dec 2010 16:16 Post subject: |
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It wasn't a KO.
He only hit with the very end of his foot/toes. Had he hit with his shin it would've been a KO.
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| Posted: Sat, 18th Dec 2010 18:52 Post subject: |
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Why the heck did Ben have to screw that KO up by not getting ktfo ? Haha ! The guy is tough, but his striking is lacking.
He shouldn't have lost that RNC opportunity. It looked deep for a while, but I'm not an expert.
That wallwalking ninja kick had Ben dazed till the end of the fight.
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fisk
Posts: 9145
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| Posted: Sun, 19th Dec 2010 14:37 Post subject: |
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WOW! I'm so excited for the LW-merger.
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fisk
Posts: 9145
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| Posted: Sun, 2nd Jan 2011 18:05 Post subject: |
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Maynard vs. Edgar was a lackluster as expected. Meh.
UFC 125 was pretty bad.
Yes, yes I'm back.
Somewhat.
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| Posted: Sun, 2nd Jan 2011 21:21 Post subject: |
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I am glad Edgard kept the belt, and even though Mannyard showed better striker, it still doesnt erase his boring ass style that he used so effectively, I really do not want to see him as a champ.
Seen Leben KO'd was funny, and I dont understand his style. He just rushes head on, without any kind of defense in hopes of KOing his opponent faster than the opponent can. And when he faces a decent striker, he gets KO'd. Reminds me of Home Simpson's run as a boxer.
Silva completely humiliated Vera, I was really shocked at how easy it was for him since Vera looked like he had a good ground game.
Dong seems to be another Mannyard, perfectly content on just holding his opponents down. Nate should've went berserk earlier, and not just in the last round.
Watching Guida's bobbing and whipping his hair back and forth was just painful, that is just such an unpleasant style to watch, for me at least, I was just hopping Gomi would land something.
Sig too big. -Nothing is too big for Fedor. Expect a nasty armbar.
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fisk
Posts: 9145
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| Posted: Mon, 3rd Jan 2011 18:34 Post subject: |
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My early predictions for UFC 126:
Anderson Silva v. Vitor Belfort
Vitor is a great striker, but he is facing a striker that is like from outer space, another planet, et cetera. The only way to even attempt to defeat Silva is by having perfect takedowns and great ground game. Belfort's not bad, but he simply does not have that. Anderson will win this fight decisively. Crisp clean knees, elbows and punches. K.O. late in the second round.
Forrest Griffin v. Rich Franklin
Rich Franklin will take this one especially if the fight stays on its feet, which I believe it will. If Forrest manages to take the fight to the ground though (which I doubt he will) he stands a chance. Forrest's striking is subpar to Franklin's, especially when he loses control (which he always does). Franklin by UD or TKO.
Jon Jones v. Ryan Bader
Jon Jones will surprise Bader with unconventional striking, and Bader will find his match in the extremely talented Jones. I think this will go to the ground though for some reason, I'm guessing Jones via submission.
Other fights:
Jake "made a hamburger out of Ellen" Ellenberger v. Carlos Eduardo Rocha
Rocha wins.
Miguel Torres v. Antonio Banuelos
Torres wins.
Other winners:
Sam Stout (TKO)
Michihiro Omigawa (Submission)
Gabe Ruediger ( Submission (guessing Guilloutine choke)
Demetrius Johnson (UD)
Kyle Kingsbury (SD)
Kenny Robertson (KO)
Yes, yes I'm back.
Somewhat.
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| Posted: Tue, 4th Jan 2011 01:16 Post subject: |
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It looks like a solid card. If Silva doesnt dance around like a fool, it could be an awesome night of fights.
Think Forrest will give Rich more trouble than you think. You are right, Rich does have better striking but Forrest never gives up, so it should be an interesting fight.
I think Jones will kill Bader judging on their past performances. Bader looked like crap vs Nog, who wasnt exactly showcasing his best abilities. IMO it will be one sided affair.
Sig too big. -Nothing is too big for Fedor. Expect a nasty armbar.
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fisk
Posts: 9145
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| Posted: Wed, 5th Jan 2011 16:22 Post subject: |
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| Krest wrote: | It looks like a solid card. If Silva doesnt dance around like a fool, it could be an awesome night of fights.
Think Forrest will give Rich more trouble than you think. You are right, Rich does have better striking but Forrest never gives up, so it should be an interesting fight.
I think Jones will kill Bader judging on their past performances. Bader looked like crap vs Nog, who wasnt exactly showcasing his best abilities. IMO it will be one sided affair. |
I'm a big Forrest fan but I've come to accept that the guy will never be champion material ever again. He has the discipline to train hard, but not to learn from his mistakes. He keeps blocking punches with his face, he keeps going back to brawling when his heart wains, which it will unless he faces someone like Hector Ramirez, a washed up injured Tito or a slouchy unmotivated Rampage.
Yes, yes I'm back.
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fisk
Posts: 9145
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| Posted: Sat, 5th Feb 2011 13:18 Post subject: |
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Holy shit! That staredown between Belfort and Silva sure is something!
Yes, yes I'm back.
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SycoShaman
VIP Master Jedi
Posts: 24468
Location: Toronto, Canada
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| Posted: Sat, 5th Feb 2011 18:25 Post subject: |
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hey fisk, be sure to look for a tatted up 5'9 less than brown guy at April's UFC event in Toronto 
Hoping to get on TV.
The guy I am teaching and who is teaching me got me, him and 2 other guys pre-ordered tickets....all the big names from Ontario MA will be at the event you know.
Now that FC is legal in ontario and I dont have to go to NY to compete I might get back into Full Contact or as they call it now, MMA 
Made a thread about in VIP because of the trolls on the forum (not in here but else where)
Big commitment to go pro but I have a coach and sparring partners...I just need to do the circuit for a year or 2 (and win of course) and that requires money...whether its sponsorship or your own, u need money to compete in the 'minor leagues' and in the qualifying events....
Too bad the UFC went commmercial. All it used to take to enter the once a year tourney was 25g's and basically, all the master's from all the styles and the crazies would show up...that was when there were pressure locks/joint locks and strikes etc The good ol days man 
Now with the rules....why I am learning BJJ/GJJ from a 5th dan (master) and I am teaching him Combat Hapkido and my own system of stand up fighting. He's teaching me to ground fight without killing the person (thats the ground game in hapkido...maim or kill the person) lol
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| Posted: Sat, 5th Feb 2011 19:39 Post subject: |
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| Posted: Sun, 6th Feb 2011 02:18 Post subject: |
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Very nice Syco, and good luck with that. Who knows, we might see in the UFC one day.
I am so exited about this UFC. It is one of the most stacked up cards in quite a while, and every single fight has a potential to be a FOTN.
What is more intriguing, I have no idea who is going to win. There are favorites of course, like Silva, but I think Belfort has a solid chance.
Forrest vs Rich is just a toss up. Forrest is weird but has heart, and Rich only lost to champions or former champs, so no shame in that.
Only fight I think has a clear winner is JJ vs Bader. Bader looked like crap against Nog, and JJ always looks good and keeps improving. But, this is MMA and you never know what is going to happen.
Edit: well the first 2 fights are certainly not living up to my hype.
Wow, really Silva, REALLY? He KO's people by dancing around. If he did it every time, no one ever would talk crap about him.
Sig too big. -Nothing is too big for Fedor. Expect a nasty armbar.
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fisk
Posts: 9145
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| Posted: Sun, 6th Feb 2011 13:57 Post subject: |
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Heh, went pretty much as expected. I don't think Forrest looked really impressive, but Rich looked worse. I don't know what was up with him tonight. I think Rich lost the fight more than that Forrest won it.
Anderson Silva was a no-brainer. Anyone who thought Vitor had a chance were deluding themselves or were biased because of disliking Silva.
Jon Jones, as I predicted by submission.
Great UFC-event.
Yes, yes I'm back.
Somewhat.
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.. sick move.
