| Page 68 of 201 |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
|
|
 Posted: Sun, 27th Feb 2011 13:03 Post subject: |
|
|
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
| Posted: Sun, 27th Feb 2011 13:05 Post subject: |
|
|
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
| Posted: Sun, 27th Feb 2011 13:45 Post subject: |
|
|
| peter980 wrote: | | Kem0sabe wrote: | | What was the last AAA hardcore rpg anyone here has played? Which had truly hard and strategic combat? |
Drakensang and its prequel?
And by hardcore I mean complex RPG rule system. |
Tried playing both, drakensang 1 and river of time, although the game had a nice rpg system and graphics, the inability of having your npc companions use their skills without you having to select them and the poor story/dialog/voice acting turned me off... never finished either.
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
| Posted: Sun, 27th Feb 2011 15:51 Post subject: |
|
|
| Kem0sabe wrote: | What was the last AAA hardcore rpg anyone here has played? Which had truly hard and strategic combat?
Baldurs gate 2?
Deus Ex?
Pool of Radiance? (Best turned based combat you can find on an RPG)
System Shock 2?
Almost every AAA RPG that has come out these last 10 years has been steering ever towards a a simplification of the RPG elements, especially the combat.
Gothic, The Witcher, Dragon Age, Knights of the Old Republic...
Let´s face it... we lap this up and buy these games even when they keep getting less complex, it's our fault. If we said (with our wallets) "We want more dice rolls" then they would make those types of games. |
The last truly good game like that, which I played was Nwn2 MotB ... try it on hardest difficulty (you know, friendly fire and all that jazz) - go to the Shadow Mulsantir, the docks, and kill the assassins there. Tell me if you did it in first try.
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
| Posted: Sun, 27th Feb 2011 16:03 Post subject: |
|
|
| sabin1981 wrote: | | Pixieking wrote: | (THAC0? Who on God's green Earth thought THAC0 was a good idea?  )
|
BITE YOUR TONGUE, YOU UNWASHED HEATHEN!  THAC0 rules. I miss THAC0... instead we get this streamlined bullshit for the masses  |
Yes THAC0 is better than this streamlined shit, but to be honest, in retrospect, it did not make that much sense on a video game. On PnP it makes a lot of sense, because it's set up in a way to make calculations as fast as possible, but for a game, where the PC is the dungeon master, 3rd edition rules are easier to understand.
Oh, and I have played DnD 2nd,3rd, 3.5 and 4th edition rules, and by fucking far 3.5 beats any alternative. It's the most complex, has the most rules, has the most flexible multiclassing system ... it's a brilliant, brilliant system, with very many things you have to pay attention to. 2nd edition was simple in comparison to 3.5, and about the same depth as 4th - and the 4th is a clear derpification of 3.5, although they did make a FEW good changes ... but only a few.
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ixigia
[Moderator] Consigliere
Posts: 65078
Location: Italy
|
| Posted: Sun, 27th Feb 2011 17:49 Post subject: |
|
|
| m3th0d2008 wrote: | | ffy wrote: | | Quote: | | - Main Quest takes 12-15 hours, you can double that number "if you take your time and explore everything the game has to offer". |
 |
Oh come one.. seriously, what did you expect? It's an Dragon Age sequel made for the masses and therefore affected by the mass effect.
Do you really think everyone who's saying something negative here is just talking smack?
Some here have developed experience with games and how they work (technically).
No fucking way this derpified piece of wank "could ever live up to the original". Some people played DA:O for about nearly 80 hours in one playthrough. I bet that even those people only need 40 (if not less) for the sequel with having everything accomplished.
Game will surely be somewhat fun. But as fun as DA:O? Could have, if they didn't streamline it and had smoothed the edges of the original's concept.
But about 80% of the fans of the original aren't the targeted audience anymore. The aimed for audience... oh my god, they'll gonna have so much fun with it and are going to shove so much money into Bioware/EA's rectums. That's already written in stone. Boobs and blood are making sure of that.
We have to deal with that. Buying, not buying and the one I prefer, the buccaneer way  |
Exactly, Dragon Age 2 will very probably sell much better than the first one (which was quite successful in terms of sales to be honest); putting the word end to the original form of RPGs that every fan loved. I can't completely blame Bioware though, since as a company, they're going after the biggest revenue possible, without caring where it comes from. They neither have "morals" to follow nor debts of gratitude to owe unfortunately.  |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ixigia
[Moderator] Consigliere
Posts: 65078
Location: Italy
|
| Posted: Sun, 27th Feb 2011 18:40 Post subject: |
|
|
| human_steel wrote: | It's pure business. What morals are you seeking there?  |
It's what I said, they don't have to care about anything different from money, unfortunately for the old fans ( ). |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
| Posted: Sun, 27th Feb 2011 18:45 Post subject: |
|
|
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
| Posted: Sun, 27th Feb 2011 18:45 Post subject: |
|
|
| ixigia wrote: | | human_steel wrote: | | It's pure business. What morals are you seeking there? |
It's what I said, they don't have to care about anything different from money, unfortunately for the old fans ( ). |
They don't have to, yet very many businesses do care about many things other than money. Truth be told, I have very many friends running small businesses and a few of the running medium sized businesses (~120 employees) - and they have very strict policies, stemming from moral decisions.
People tend to vilify business owners, and capitalism as a whole, but it's not capitalism that makes people care about money, and nothing else, it's the lack of morals and culture, that makes people think like that.
If BioWare wanted, they could make a fucking decent living (I mean being rich and all) and still make games more hardcore than they make now. Would they be as rich as now? No. Would they still be rich? Yes. It's a moral choice.
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
| Posted: Sun, 27th Feb 2011 20:14 Post subject: |
|
|
Why would DA2 sell better? if hardcore rpg fans avoid it. Why would derps be interested at all? Didn't we just go down this road with Gothic 4 and its lackluster sales.
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Epsilon
Dr. Strangelove
Posts: 9240
Location: War Room
|
| Posted: Sun, 27th Feb 2011 20:35 Post subject: |
|
|
| sabin1981 wrote: | I've not put on my robe and wizard hat since Wizards bought out D&D3.5 They just ruined it for me with all the changes... and the same goes for the new Shadowrun. Even PnP games aren't immune to derphood. Some of the changes in Shadowrun are absolutely insulting.
..... I already miss my Fairlight Excalibur |
Can't you just appreciate it for what it is?  |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
| Posted: Sun, 27th Feb 2011 20:35 Post subject: |
|
|
Hell no.
 Spoiler: |
I see what you're doing there, sir
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Epsilon
Dr. Strangelove
Posts: 9240
Location: War Room
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Gvaz
Posts: 345
Location: USA
|
| Posted: Sun, 27th Feb 2011 21:21 Post subject: |
|
|
| Shazzel wrote: | | Why would DA2 sell better? if hardcore rpg fans avoid it. Why would derps be interested at all? Didn't we just go down this road with Gothic 4 and its lackluster sales. |
People will buy it because ~bioware can do no wrong~ that people keep thinking
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
LeoNatan
☢ NFOHump Despot ☢
Posts: 73196
Location: Ramat Gan, Israel 🇮🇱
|
| Posted: Sun, 27th Feb 2011 21:46 Post subject: |
|
|
| human_steel wrote: |  |
What game is that from? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
D34Dite
Posts: 1726
Location: Norn Iron, UK
|
| Posted: Sun, 27th Feb 2011 21:50 Post subject: |
|
|
dead rising 2
when there is no more room in hell, the D34D will walk the earth
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Epsilon
Dr. Strangelove
Posts: 9240
Location: War Room
|
| Posted: Sun, 27th Feb 2011 23:18 Post subject: |
|
|
| sabin1981 wrote: | | Epsilon wrote: |
It is what you told me when I was raging about Fallout 3 |
I guess your sarcasm meter is broken then, because I have NEVER defended Fallout 3 against you. When I said "it's good at what it is" - I was JOKING. I was taking the piss out of the idiots who keep defending games that are dumbed down. Fallout 3 was enjoyable, but it wasn't Fallout. |
My sarcasm meter is good for what it is.. ok I apologize |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
| Posted: Sun, 27th Feb 2011 23:24 Post subject: |
|
|
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Epsilon
Dr. Strangelove
Posts: 9240
Location: War Room
|
| Posted: Sun, 27th Feb 2011 23:59 Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: | So Peter Molyneux got up on stage at GDC last year and said, "Our mandate for Fable III is to sell five million copies this time, and that's why we are making specific streamlining decisions." Have you had any mandate? "We want a bump. We want to reach out to more people. We want more people to like Dragon Age II than Dragon Age Origins."
ML: Huh! Okay. So I think that's a goal, but when you say "mandate," it becomes a much harsher thing. Mandate is a "you must," and the decisions will be made due to focus groups or something.
For me, I guess, fundamentally, there are more people who are ready to play RPGs than realize it. These are people who will play FarmVille. These are people who have shot enough people in the head that they've leveled up in Medal of Honor. They've gained XP and have received awards as a result. That's an RPG mechanic. They've played [Grand Theft Auto] San Andreas and they've run enough, and gotten buff enough, that their endurance is a higher. They've leveled. |
RPG = leveling up? what the hell. Someone put him out of his misery please. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
| Posted: Mon, 28th Feb 2011 00:06 Post subject: |
|
|
| Epsilon wrote: | | Quote: | So Peter Molyneux got up on stage at GDC last year and said, "Our mandate for Fable III is to sell five million copies this time, and that's why we are making specific streamlining decisions." Have you had any mandate? "We want a bump. We want to reach out to more people. We want more people to like Dragon Age II than Dragon Age Origins."
ML: Huh! Okay. So I think that's a goal, but when you say "mandate," it becomes a much harsher thing. Mandate is a "you must," and the decisions will be made due to focus groups or something.
For me, I guess, fundamentally, there are more people who are ready to play RPGs than realize it. These are people who will play FarmVille. These are people who have shot enough people in the head that they've leveled up in Medal of Honor. They've gained XP and have received awards as a result. That's an RPG mechanic. They've played [Grand Theft Auto] San Andreas and they've run enough, and gotten buff enough, that their endurance is a higher. They've leveled. |
RPG = leveling up? what the hell. Someone put him out of his misery please. |
To be fair, what he says is true. Leveling is an RPG mechanic. XP is an RPG mechanic. Whatever system you play, the 2 constants are leveling and XP (except for the more... storybased systems, but I don't think even many RPG fans here know of them).
I don't quite get why you're criticising this quote. Is it because he implies that all that is required from an RPG is XP? Because he doesn't explicitly say that; he simply says that people who know the XP/Leveling mechanic are ready to play RPGs.
Pixieking
----------
ASUS P8P67 Evo - Intel i7 3770k - 2X4GB GSkill RipJaws X DDR3 1600 - HIS 7950 IceQ - Creative XtremeMusic Soundcard - NZXT Phantom 530 - Thermaltake Toughpower XT 675 - Win7 x64
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
| Posted: Mon, 28th Feb 2011 00:39 Post subject: |
|
|
| Pixieking wrote: | | To be fair, what he says is true. Leveling is an RPG mechanic. XP is an RPG mechanic. Whatever system you play, the 2 constants are leveling and XP (except for the more... storybased systems, but I don't think even many RPG fans here know of them). |
He is right to criticize it. And that's because you are missing the point and the essence of what an RPG is.
The levelling up and getting XP parts are not what you seem to think they are, and by all means, they are NOT just a simple constant! Practically, they are the effects and consequences of your decisions that you are taking by playing your role as a specific character.
So they are only some kind of "reward", if you want, for your choices and/or actions, thus the whole process of obtaining those is a different matter and defines itself through much more complexity and scope than that moronic french half-bald dude implies.
So it's the WHOLE process that leads to obtaining XP and levels that makes the experience worth-while and defines your role, character and the experience with the game.
Tbh, I think the industry wants to change the definition of RPG nowadays and soon we'll see some NHL or NBA game named as another "role-playing experience". |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
| Posted: Mon, 28th Feb 2011 00:48 Post subject: |
|
|
| Pixieking wrote: | To be fair, what he says is true. Leveling is an RPG mechanic. XP is an RPG mechanic. Whatever system you play, the 2 constants are leveling and XP (except for the more... storybased systems, but I don't think even many RPG fans here know of them).
I don't quite get why you're criticising this quote. Is it because he implies that all that is required from an RPG is XP? Because he doesn't explicitly say that; he simply says that people who know the XP/Leveling mechanic are ready to play RPGs. |
I think it's 'cause he casually implies that leveling in Moh/GTA makes you ready to play DA2, and that's far from the truth. It's another example of catering to the wrong audience for an extra buck.
We knew this was coming. The former Lead Designer even left 'cause of it. He said that back in august, remember?:
"We were nearing the end of active work on design content for Dragon Age… there was still a lot more bug fixing/polishing/ and fill-content generation ahead but the core plot/writing and level design was finished. My work was rapidly shifting into that of reviewing what the team had put together.
Discussion on Dragon Age 2 began around this time and looking ahead I knew that I wasn’t going to be satisfied with what Dragon Age 2 would be. Party control/tactical combat are huge factors in my enjoyment of a role-playing game as is adopting the role of the hero (i.e., customizing my character). I was fairly certain Dragon Age would transition towards more of a Mass Effect experience, which while enjoyable is not the type of role-playing game I play. Could I be the lead designer on such a title? Certainly… though if I were going to work on a game adopting a set-in-stone protagonist I’d rather work on something lighter, like a shooter."- Brent Knowles
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
| Page 68 of 201 |
All times are GMT + 1 Hour |
