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 Posted: Fri, 8th Jul 2011 16:27 Post subject: |
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^ Too complex for today's audiences, let's stick to 2 guns.
TWIN PEAKS is "something of a miracle."
"...like nothing else on television."
"a phenomenon."
"A tangled tale of sex, violence, power, junk food..."
"Like Nothing On Earth"
~ WHAT THEY'RE TRYING TO SAY CAN ONLY BE SEEN ~
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CHTUOgYNRzY
Last edited by consolitis on Fri, 8th Jul 2011 20:00; edited 1 time in total |
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ixigia
[Moderator] Consigliere
Posts: 65084
Location: Italy
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| Posted: Fri, 8th Jul 2011 16:30 Post subject: |
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And there's still someone who compares Bioshock to System Shock; "spiritual* successor", they say 
*streamlined for accessibility and dumbed down to death for the masses
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| Posted: Fri, 8th Jul 2011 16:47 Post subject: |
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Bah, old gaymes grafix sux, so Biosok iz betta ^^
TWIN PEAKS is "something of a miracle."
"...like nothing else on television."
"a phenomenon."
"A tangled tale of sex, violence, power, junk food..."
"Like Nothing On Earth"
~ WHAT THEY'RE TRYING TO SAY CAN ONLY BE SEEN ~
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CHTUOgYNRzY
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| Posted: Fri, 8th Jul 2011 17:53 Post subject: |
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| Posted: Fri, 8th Jul 2011 18:01 Post subject: |
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Just watched e3 demo. Holy shit its crazy. I feel almost as excited as before first bioshock
3080 | ps5 pro
Sin317-"im 31 years old and still surprised at how much shit comes out of my ass actually ..."
SteamDRM-"Call of Duty is the symbol of the true perfection in every aspect. Call of Duty games are like Mozart's/Beethoven's symphonies"
deadpoetic-"are you new to the cyberspace?"
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| Posted: Fri, 8th Jul 2011 20:22 Post subject: |
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| Casus wrote: |
Then you can play Bioshock, and realise that the entire game is exactly like System Shock - except every feature has been streamlined and simplified.
Audio logs have been changed to directly address the scene you enter.
The story is largely told through these audio logs.
Weapon Upgrades have taken the place of weapon modifications.
There are still three types of ammo for each gun.
The psi-powers of SS2 have changed name and run on "Eve" rather than "Psi".
The game is still a cerebral shooter with emphasis on exploration, except it's linear and lacks challenge.
There are three main gameplay mechanics: Shooting, Hacking, Powers.
"ValueReps" are there only with different names and you can still hack them.
There are still character upgrade stations - except with fewer upgrades.
The regeneration chamber has changed name to Vita chamber.
The hacking minigame has changed from somewhat meaningful to repetitive and stupid.
The game still starts the player off in a strange place with amnesia.
There's a big twist with the "helpful guide" turning into the main villain.
I could go on, but it should suffice. |
Wow, great post ! 
Honestly, I loved System Shock 2 but I absolutely hated and detested Bioshock. It was way over hyped and you just had to rate it high otherwise you wouldn't be included in the cool review magazines group. Rubbish scripted events and the faux sandbox feel totally turned me off that overrated crap.
That said, Bioshock Infinite seems infinitely better than Biotrash 1/2.
1 and 2 are still amazing. |
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| Posted: Fri, 8th Jul 2011 21:39 Post subject: |
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| Casus wrote: |
Audio logs have been changed to directly address the scene you enter.
The story is largely told through these audio logs.
Weapon Upgrades have taken the place of weapon modifications.
There are still three types of ammo for each gun.
The psi-powers of SS2 have changed name and run on "Eve" rather than "Psi".
The game is still a cerebral shooter with emphasis on exploration, except it's linear and lacks challenge.
There are three main gameplay mechanics: Shooting, Hacking, Powers.
"ValueReps" are there only with different names and you can still hack them.
There are still character upgrade stations - except with fewer upgrades.
The regeneration chamber has changed name to Vita chamber.
The hacking minigame has changed from somewhat meaningful to repetitive and stupid.
The game still starts the player off in a strange place with amnesia.
There's a big twist with the "helpful guide" turning into the main villain.
I could go on, but it should suffice. |
Now that's just much better. People here just kept bitching and mentioning System Shock games, and nobody took the time to say why. I'm sorry if I provoked you to do that in a rude way I appreciate your thorough comparison. I just knew about SS games by reference and some videos and it had always looked to me very similar to Deus Ex, of course I would have to play them if I wanted to know where the similarity ends.
I can understand now why people who played and loved SS games were mad at BioShock's deficiencies in comparison, but I still think BioShock is a great game and for me the best game of that year (2008), I loved the fact that it was a first-person shooter, and also loved the upgrade system with the plasmids and stuff. But I mainly loved it for its very distinct atmosphere and good story. That's a big part of why I expect great things from this game (Infinite) after the dissapointment that was BioShock 2 for me.
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| Posted: Fri, 8th Jul 2011 22:10 Post subject: |
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BioShock 1 was a good experience, it was a pretty solid fps and had a very nice art direction. Bioshock Infinite seems to be going towards something enjoyable, but these are merely beta shots which I suspect to be highly scripted, and the hype will get a good punch in the teeth when it comes out. But let's hope I'm wrong.
yuri999: The faux sandbox ? Bioshock was very, very linear and I don't think they ever presented it as something else.
Edit: I just watched the GTV E3 demo.. And wow, that was very, very cinematic as in you get to play 1/10 of the time. It felt like watching a pretty cool movie. I really wonder if they can keep up that level of scripting throughout the game, and whether you acting off borders will trigger such natural responses.
But I gotta say, I'm pretty pumped out for this. Gameplay wise, it doesn't seem better or very different than everything that comes out, but the city, the overall feeling.. man, it looks just great. Seems like they left out "elementary" plasmids ( fire/ice/electricity ) though.
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| Posted: Sat, 9th Jul 2011 11:04 Post subject: |
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I personally don't get the excitement at all. The setting, while novel, doesn't do anything for me in terms of atmosphere. The actual gameplay looks incredibly traditional apart from the superfluous ability to jump on the rollercoaster thing. Oh, I forget, it's a good addition because it "looks cool". People were clapping at some show - and as such it's obviously a good gameplay mechanic.
It's nice that they've kept the "quiet" moments of the past games, but they apparently forgot that the appeal of the past games were almost EXCLUSIVELY the quiet moments, and not the action based moments.
This looks like a pretentious shooter-fest with delusions of grandeur - even more so than Bioshock. But maybe I'm wrong, and Ken Levine suddenly woke up and understood gameplay from one day to the next.
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| Posted: Sat, 9th Jul 2011 11:10 Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Now that's just much better. People here just kept bitching and mentioning System Shock games, and nobody took the time to say why. I'm sorry if I provoked you to do that in a rude way Very Happy I appreciate your thorough comparison. I just knew about SS games by reference and some videos and it had always looked to me very similar to Deus Ex, of course I would have to play them if I wanted to know where the similarity ends. |
Glad to be of service 
I don't mind being provoked, and if you're willing to pay the price of being obviously ignorant about that which you speak - I'll gladly expend the effort of writing a bit about some games.
| Quote: | | I can understand now why people who played and loved SS games were mad at BioShock's deficiencies in comparison, but I still think BioShock is a great game and for me the best game of that year (2008), I loved the fact that it was a first-person shooter, and also loved the upgrade system with the plasmids and stuff. But I mainly loved it for its very distinct atmosphere and good story. That's a big part of why I expect great things from this game (Infinite) after the dissapointment that was BioShock 2 for me. |
I'm not really mad at Bioshock or its deficiencies. If you look at it in a vacuum - it's actually a good game. I'd even call it a very good game.
I'll be honest and admit it has two things going for it that exceed what System Shock had in their place:
The premise and the setting.
Bioshock has the best premise I've ever experienced in an exploration game. I mean, who can forget that beginning!
The setting in itself is brilliant.
But, literally everything else about the game is inferior to the two previous Shocks. You can make a case for the "shooter" feel - but I honestly wasn't impressed at all. The weapons were mostly uninteresting and bulky. They didn't feel precise or comfortable - mostly because of the obvious console influence.
But what pisses me off, quite simply, is that hack writer Ken Levine - rejected by Hollywood.
Don't get me wrong, he seems a nice enough guy. He's obviously great with premises and "selling" the game. He's also good a stealing dialogue directly from popular movies. Try playing Bioshock while watching Miller's Crossing one day
The thing is that he's getting all the attention and all the credit that SHOULD have gone to Looking Glass. They're the reason Bioshock is so good - but they just didn't release System Shock at the right time and dumb it down enough.
I just HATE it when people take credit for the creative work of others. The only thing I'd want from Levine is an open statement giving credit where its due - and that's it.
People are praising this inferior clone with modern production values as if the games doing the legwork never existed.
Me no likey! 
Last edited by Casus on Sat, 9th Jul 2011 11:19; edited 1 time in total
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| Posted: Sat, 9th Jul 2011 11:19 Post subject: |
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There is only one problem with the game.
The combat is directly ripped from Bioshock 1 & 2, and that combat sucks.
Too many enemies and way too repetitive.
It looks like an amazing game, but I am guessing its going to be the same repetitive game that Bioshock is.
I also hated how the whole time he was taking bullets and it didn't even matter.
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| Posted: Sat, 9th Jul 2011 11:43 Post subject: |
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Just wait for Elizabeth to open a Tear to Rapture (BioShock 1) 
The "Revenge of the Jedi" title on the theater means she opens Tears to alternate pasts/futures (the actual title of the movie is "Return of the Jedi", "Revenge" was the work in progress title.. but in the universe she opened a Tear into, the work in progress title became the final one)
That can explain the link between the 2 games, and why the CGI teaser had a big daddy figure etc.
TWIN PEAKS is "something of a miracle."
"...like nothing else on television."
"a phenomenon."
"A tangled tale of sex, violence, power, junk food..."
"Like Nothing On Earth"
~ WHAT THEY'RE TRYING TO SAY CAN ONLY BE SEEN ~
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CHTUOgYNRzY
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vurt
Posts: 13842
Location: Sweden
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| Posted: Sat, 9th Jul 2011 12:23 Post subject: |
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I was disapointed with BioShock, but mostly because of how Ken portrayed it on the forums during the development - not dumbed down at all, pretty much System Shock 2 under water etc.
But it wasn't really a bad game, it's a good and heavily scripted FPS with some of the best art work i've seen in a game, this look just as good. It's just too bad we can't have gameplay that is on pair with System Shock 2 any longer it seems..
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| Posted: Sat, 9th Jul 2011 13:04 Post subject: |
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| TheZor wrote: |
yuri999: The faux sandbox ? Bioshock was very, very linear and I don't think they ever presented it as something else.
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Look at the early previews.. Levine touted it as a SS2 spiritual successor with an open environment and different approaches to levels. No, using different weapons or plasmids does not mean a different approach. A different approach is giving various options like Eidos has done with Deus Ex 3.
1 and 2 are still amazing. |
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| Posted: Sat, 9th Jul 2011 21:07 Post subject: |
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| Casus wrote: | | The only thing I'd want from Levine is an open statement giving credit where its due - and that's it. |
This good enough?
http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2011/07/07/bioshock-infinite-gillen-vs-levine/
| Quote: | Gillen: I interviewed Doug Church about System Shock and the logic behind it almost a decade after the game came out, and the thought underlying a lot of the design decisions was: “We’re just not very good at doing people”. So they stopped trying to do people for that game. What makes you feel confident about going back and doing people now?
Levine: Doug’s completely right, and that was the brilliance of System Shock 1. His brilliance was to keep people out of the world, but keep them in the audiologs. Our team certainly benefited from that through System Shock 2 and Bioshock 1. But you know, now it’s almost twenty years after System Shock 1, and oh my God….
[There follows a brief nervous breakdown where interviewee and interviewer realise it's 20 years since System Shock 1.]
Levine: 20 years. We have to move on. We bit the bullet. It was along the way into the game that we decided that. Initially we said, well, everyone you meet is going to be crazy like in Bioshock. But then we began to think on that and…. what if you have someone with you? Someone who isn’t crazy? What if you don’t know how crazy anyone is? What if they’re not behind a glass wall? We just kept working on that. It’s a really hard problem, and so that’s why the game is taking as long as it is. To do it in a shooting environment, that’s hard.
It’s a Bioshock game, so people expect a certain level of polish and visual oomph that you don’t expect from an RPG necessarily in moment-to-moment. Our action sequences are much more custom, much bigger. We have this opportunity to create this great level of consistency, like the scene in the doorway where she puts your hand around her neck, that’s so specifically animated. But then when she is in the world her actions have to be roughly on a par with that, consistent with that, even though we have no control over what the player is doing, or where he is going to be. It’s really complicated and really challenging, but we thought “it’s time to make it happen”. |
TWIN PEAKS is "something of a miracle."
"...like nothing else on television."
"a phenomenon."
"A tangled tale of sex, violence, power, junk food..."
"Like Nothing On Earth"
~ WHAT THEY'RE TRYING TO SAY CAN ONLY BE SEEN ~
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CHTUOgYNRzY |
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| Posted: Sat, 9th Jul 2011 22:19 Post subject: |
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I *loved* the System Shock games. Cyberspace was awesome.
Bioshock bored the piss out of me. I think I put maybe six to eight hours into it. I didn't even bother with B2. Infinite looks mildly interesting but we'll see.
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| Posted: Sat, 9th Jul 2011 23:56 Post subject: |
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| yuri999 wrote: | | TheZor wrote: |
yuri999: The faux sandbox ? Bioshock was very, very linear and I don't think they ever presented it as something else.
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Look at the early previews.. Levine touted it as a SS2 spiritual successor with an open environment and different approaches to levels. No, using different weapons or plasmids does not mean a different approach. A different approach is giving various options like Eidos has done with Deus Ex 3. |
I read a few articles, and you're right.. It's a joke he even dared to say the game was in any way open. It was very,very,very linear, go from point A to B, scripted sequence, repeat.
| Casus wrote: | I personally don't get the excitement at all. The setting, while novel, doesn't do anything for me in terms of atmosphere. The actual gameplay looks incredibly traditional apart from the superfluous ability to jump on the rollercoaster thing. Oh, I forget, it's a good addition because it "looks cool". People were clapping at some show - and as such it's obviously a good gameplay mechanic.
It's nice that they've kept the "quiet" moments of the past games, but they apparently forgot that the appeal of the past games were almost EXCLUSIVELY the quiet moments, and not the action based moments.
This looks like a pretentious shooter-fest with delusions of grandeur - even more so than Bioshock. But maybe I'm wrong, and Ken Levine suddenly woke up and understood gameplay from one day to the next. |
Well, I just like the whole 20-30's american setting, I got no taste  The rollercoaster thing doesn't really appeal to me, it's just another wanna-be-clever gameplay mechanic.
It indeed is presented in an incredibly pretentious way, just like Bioshock, and I don't expect a game the caliber of let's sayDeus Ex 3, just a piece of popcorn entertainement to play for a few hours and play again months later.
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| Posted: Sun, 10th Jul 2011 18:01 Post subject: |
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Too bad that full E3 trailer has piss-poor Framerate, shitty-ass FOV and terrible screen Tearing issues. Not to mention it didn't even feel it was being actually "played", it rather looked like a derp-controller was somehow simulated (i.e. the sloooow looking around, etc.).
I'd bet it was just an in-game-engine showreel, with the usual scripted-as-hell sequences.
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| Posted: Sun, 10th Jul 2011 18:13 Post subject: |
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LeoNatan
☢ NFOHump Despot ☢
Posts: 73204
Location: Ramat Gan, Israel 🇮🇱
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| Posted: Sun, 10th Jul 2011 18:20 Post subject: |
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| consolitis wrote: | | Just wait for Elizabeth to open a Tear to Rapture (BioShock 1) |
No. Opening a Tear into unrelated IP is stealing their game.  |
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| Posted: Sun, 10th Jul 2011 18:24 Post subject: |
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LeoNatan
☢ NFOHump Despot ☢
Posts: 73204
Location: Ramat Gan, Israel 🇮🇱
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| Posted: Sun, 10th Jul 2011 18:50 Post subject: |
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Why would she? 
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| Posted: Sun, 10th Jul 2011 21:08 Post subject: |
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| maul_inc wrote: | | consolitis wrote: | Just wait for Elizabeth to open a Tear to Rapture (BioShock 1)
The "Revenge of the Jedi" title on the theater means she opens Tears to alternate pasts/futures (the actual title of the movie is "Return of the Jedi", "Revenge" was the work in progress title.. but in the universe she opened a Tear into, the work in progress title became the final one)
That can explain the link between the 2 games, and why the CGI teaser had a big daddy figure etc. |
Actually, Revenge of the Jedi banners was displayed on the front of many cinemas a couple of months before they changed the title back in 83'
Btw. About the 15 min. demo. I'm surprised to see much better GFX for this game, but maybe it was running on a pc with a gamepad |
Really? I didn't know that, but I doubt Irrational hoped that the average gamer would know this little detail. I am very certain it was meant to show she opens tears to parallel universes.
Also the press has confirmed that both the 2010 Gamescom trailer and the 2011 E3 trailer were running on PCs with gamepad.
TWIN PEAKS is "something of a miracle."
"...like nothing else on television."
"a phenomenon."
"A tangled tale of sex, violence, power, junk food..."
"Like Nothing On Earth"
~ WHAT THEY'RE TRYING TO SAY CAN ONLY BE SEEN ~
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CHTUOgYNRzY |
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