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 Posted: Tue, 6th Jul 2004 16:38 Post subject: |
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Greece deserved to win and that's final especially coming from a porkchop 
Best of luck in world cupI hope they do well but it may be unlikely because that is a whole differant kind of football!
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| Posted: Sat, 10th Jul 2004 15:08 Post subject: |
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| Wallen wrote: | | Greece won't stand a chance against Portugal. Cristiano Ronaldo will fake Seitaridis around with ease. |
i would like you to comment now this line again
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SirCez
Posts: 357
Location: UK
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| Posted: Mon, 12th Jul 2004 15:13 Post subject: |
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Anyone who says Greece was lucky should think twice. They won Portugal (twice, what a disgrace) and France. Now, someone tell me how could this be luck. Portugal and France were the definite favourites. By the way, England supporters think their team is the best. C'mon get a life, when was the last time England played a final in a major tournement? Well done to Greece.
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Flark
Posts: 874
Location: Trrism
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| Posted: Mon, 12th Jul 2004 15:20 Post subject: |
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Those who says they won on luck obviously did not watch their games.
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Ispep
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Posts: 4117
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| Posted: Mon, 12th Jul 2004 15:24 Post subject: |
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of course it wasn't luck for the Greeks, but they never played football that was either exciting to watch or anything a neutral could really appreciate - as it wasn't the best defensive show either.
I'm a little annoyed this is all over now... Copa America it is then ;D
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| Posted: Mon, 12th Jul 2004 15:58 Post subject: |
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| SirCez wrote: | | Anyone who says Greece was lucky should think twice. They won Portugal (twice, what a disgrace) and France. Now, someone tell me how could this be luck. Portugal and France were the definite favourites. By the way, England supporters think their team is the best. C'mon get a life, when was the last time England played a final in a major tournement? Well done to Greece. |
You are a fool SirCez!
Don't get mistaken between what real English people think and what 'The Sun' news editor thinks.
Oh, and I for one enjoyed the way the Greeks played. Perhaps, Ispep, you should start watching & appreciating overall play (like a true football fan does) instead of focusing on what happens in the 18 yard box.
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Ispep
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| Posted: Mon, 12th Jul 2004 16:34 Post subject: |
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Oh I do, don't worry, however to me sticking 10 men behind the ball does not constitute great football. Like I said, the truly good defenders who work as part of an attacking footballing mentality are the kind I like to watch, as they are left to do the defending on their own - Carvalho is certainly one who impressed me in the EUROs.
Maldini constantly does this for me too.
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SirCez
Posts: 357
Location: UK
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| Posted: Mon, 12th Jul 2004 19:17 Post subject: |
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| Ispep wrote: | of course it wasn't luck for the Greeks, but they never played football that was either exciting to watch or anything a neutral could really appreciate - as it wasn't the best defensive show either.
I'm a little annoyed this is all over now... Copa America it is then ;D |
Tell me Ispep, if Portugal and France played really good football, why couldn't they breake the Greeks defence? Football is playing smart and at the end of the day, winning the tournement, and thats what Greeks done. I don't support Greece but you should appreciate that they won the tournement when everyone though it was gonna be France or Portugal.
[quote="You are a fool SirCez!
Don't get mistaken between what real English people think and what 'The Sun' news editor thinks.
Oh, and I for one enjoyed the way the Greeks played. Perhaps, Ispep, you should start watching & appreciating overall play (like a true football fan does) instead of focusing on what happens in the 18 yard box.[/quote]
I'm not being a fool its just that England supporters think they have the best players and they play better than any other team on the planet. There is soo much hype about England when there is a major tournement, but everytime they get kicked out, then the same thing happens again when the next major tournement comes.
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Ispep
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| Posted: Mon, 12th Jul 2004 19:37 Post subject: |
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Are you people reading my posts?
France for a start played horribly against Greece, not just because of the organisation and defensive mentality of the greeks but because certain players like Zidane were not even 'present' and Henry was pulling a fast one as per usual (so many missed chances & opportunities).
Portugal on the other hand had even more chances at putting it away and looked more evenly matched. But like against teh French the Greeks pounced on one opportunity and took the game home.
Now whatever you want to say, the simple fact of the matter is that it was not an impressive display of footballing talent - but rather tactics. They stuck 10 men behind the ball at all times to stifle the opposition.
Show me a good defender and I will sit in awe of his ability to do just that, but with the greeks that wasn't the case - hence why I cannot appreciate their victory, although I acknowledge it.
and I never said that either Portugal or France played really good football.
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| Posted: Mon, 12th Jul 2004 20:02 Post subject: |
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I have to agree with Ispep on this one.
There is one reason why Greece managed to do well and that is because it is easier to defend than attack.
Those saying that it is fine for Greece to defend their way to a tournament should remember that football is entertainment and when a team like Greece is successful with such boring tactics then other teams will try to emulate it which leads to more boring defensive games.
As my nation wasn't at Euro 2004 the only reason I was watching Euro 2004 was for entertainment. I wasn't entertained by a single Greece game in the whole tournament. It was painfully predictable that they would beat the Czechs and Portugal 1-0.
BTW, to say people who dislike defensive football aren't "true football fans" is an insult to the millions of "true football fans" who believe that the game should be played in an entertaining and attacking manner. My definition of a "true football fan" would be someone who can distinguish good teams from successful teams.
Im a cockfag
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| Posted: Mon, 12th Jul 2004 21:02 Post subject: |
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ok, so what do you guys have wanted them to do? obviously they are not as good as some of the other teams, so they had to defend. when the other team is better, thats usually what the other team has to do. right? to defend that is. and while still being a boring play they were still good at it. so kudos to them for winning the tournament, defending against some of the worlds best players.
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| Posted: Mon, 12th Jul 2004 22:41 Post subject: |
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It's not difficult to defend against world class teams. If a team shoves 10 men behind the ball it is extremely difficult to break it down. Greece defended well but they don't deserve any real credit for it. They showed no ability to score. Their goals in the semi and the final were headers from corners. They beat Portugal in the group stages because of a defensive mistake and a penalty!
Italy defend because they are brilliant at it - not because they know that's the only way they can win.
Greece WERE boring. If you think that any of the Greece games were exciting then you need to watch some proper teams play. Having players from the champions league doesn't guarantee entertainment.
I would have much more respect for Greece if they went out and tried to attack and got thumped in the group stages.
As I said before, what it boils down to is that it is easier to defend than attack. I don't think a team like Greece should be able to beat clearly better teams like the Czechs, Portugal and France by defending. I would have no problem with it if this had been a one off but recently loads of teams have been successful by defending(Liverpool, Valencia, Bayern). I would welcome a rule change which encouraged teams to attack and stopped teams resorting to defending.
Im a cockfag
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| Posted: Mon, 12th Jul 2004 23:04 Post subject: |
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ok, why did so many other teams fail at defending then if its so easy?
so many teams this tournament lost because they started to defend itself after a leadgoal. england comes to mind, and i know there was others as well.
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SirCez
Posts: 357
Location: UK
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| Posted: Mon, 12th Jul 2004 23:13 Post subject: |
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| Nailbiter wrote: | | ok, so what do you guys have wanted them to do? obviously they are not as good as some of the other teams, so they had to defend. when the other team is better, thats usually what the other team has to do. right? to defend that is. and while still being a boring play they were still good at it. so kudos to them for winning the tournament, defending against some of the worlds best players. |
I agree with you Nailbiter. That is the whole point of football. You have to use tactics not just attack all the way through out the game. C'mon people you think its easy to attack when you have to defend against Henry, Trezeget (spelling?), Zidane and etc. Greece isn't a world class team. You have to use your brain when you are playing agains big teams. And thats what Greece done. Do you think its easy to defend and score against these teams. We not talking about France versus Portugal where you can expect an enjoyable game. And why did Portugal lost twice because they underestimated the Greeks and they thought they can go and attack. Football isn't attacking 90 mins. Come to reality, at the end of the day, they won the tournement and they played smarter and better then their opponents.
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Ispep
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| Posted: Mon, 12th Jul 2004 23:26 Post subject: |
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no... at the end of the day - which the crux of this arguement is all about - Greece games were not exciting or entertaining football - they were boring & drawn out.
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SirCez
Posts: 357
Location: UK
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Ispep
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| Posted: Mon, 12th Jul 2004 23:36 Post subject: |
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true, but none of their games had any entertainment value which is the point we are trying to make, whether they beat world class teams/players or not.
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| Posted: Mon, 12th Jul 2004 23:55 Post subject: |
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ok, but then we can also jump to the conclusion that ie italy will play like this next tournament. why you might ask? and i tell you:
1.) after the disgrace this year they better do better next time around, to not loose face.
2.) their way of play also shows no sportmanship but proves to be otherwise. ie how they bribe, use steroids, spit, throw themselves as moviestars, conspiracydriven etc "down there". this seem to show that their mentality proves they will do anything to win, so if this defendplay is a winning strategy im sure well see them play like this.
lol im pretty unfair to italy now, but what im trying to say is that i can think of more than one country that would do ANYTHING to win the tournament. not just by using fair play. and they would certanly use boring play if they had to. and i doubt theese teams care about entertainment values either. its the win that counts, for most players, i would think.
but yes, lets not hope this happens. instead lets hope the good teams stop playing according to the defending teams and start to play better football themselves. less focus on others and more focus on their own gameplay. that would be a huge improvement i think. greece would not have won with that kind of play. the better teams started to play football the way greece wanted them to, and so they lost. if only sweden would have made it...
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| Posted: Tue, 13th Jul 2004 00:14 Post subject: |
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| Nailbiter wrote: | ok, why did so many other teams fail at defending then if its so easy?
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You're missing the point. Greece would never have been able to win the tournament by attacking. As I said, they defended well but it's easier to defend well than attack well.
Im a cockfag
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SirCez
Posts: 357
Location: UK
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| Posted: Tue, 13th Jul 2004 00:15 Post subject: |
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| Ispep wrote: | | true, but none of their games had any entertainment value which is the point we are trying to make, whether they beat world class teams/players or not. |
Yes, i understand your point but Greece had no other choice but to defend and play carefully against big teams because of the difference in the quality of the players. For example, if it was Portugal VS France then you could expect to be entertained because both teams have quality and world class players. When you are playing against big teams, you have to defend else you can't survive. So, thats what I'm trying to explain. Greece had to defend against big teams to survive and win. They also managed to score against those teams so that is not an easy achievement.
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Ispep
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| Posted: Tue, 13th Jul 2004 00:16 Post subject: |
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... and it's even harder to attack well when all the channels are taken up by 10 bodies behind the ball.
Like I say, I admire defenders such as Carvalho, Maldini (etc) and to a lesser extent Sol Campbell (more physical than technical) - because they invariably play in teams which leave them stranded at the back having to do the dirtywork.
Acknowledge Greece won, on terms they decided, that the tactics worked and got the result they and everyone else wanted - but I cannot say that their football was exciting or appreciable, because it wasn't.
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SirCez
Posts: 357
Location: UK
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| Posted: Tue, 13th Jul 2004 00:19 Post subject: |
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Yes, but at the end of the day the result counts not the football. No matter how good you played you can't change the final score and the history.
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Ispep
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| Posted: Tue, 13th Jul 2004 00:19 Post subject: |
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I know, which is what I mean by acknowledging the win, but not appreciating the display
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| Posted: Tue, 13th Jul 2004 00:21 Post subject: |
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Good point. World class defenders are able to defend well in a back three/four/five - poorer defenders can defend well in a back 10.
Im a cockfag
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SirCez
Posts: 357
Location: UK
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| Posted: Tue, 13th Jul 2004 00:27 Post subject: |
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Just keep PES3 - PES4 will be coming out soon anyway. I didn't like Euro 2004. If you've played FIFA 2004 it's basically the same.
Im a cockfag
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Ispep
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| Posted: Tue, 13th Jul 2004 00:28 Post subject: |
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SirCez
Posts: 357
Location: UK
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| Posted: Tue, 13th Jul 2004 00:30 Post subject: |
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Fifa 2004 gone platinium now so its £19.99. I will be buying PES4 definately when it comes out but i wanted to play something different. So shall I wait for PES4 then?
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- but there was no dig at FIFA, which in this case I think is mandatory! 
