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 Posted: Mon, 10th Oct 2011 22:30 Post subject: |
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Wait a bit more. On release date, it will be available at http://www.cdkeysdiscount.com/ for $25-30
Intel Q9550 @ 3.2GHz + CM Hyper 212+ | Gigabyte P35-DS3P | 6GB DDR2 OCZ 800mhz | ASUS GTX560Ti DirectCUII | Samsung SSD 840EVO 250GB + Seagate Barracuda 1TB | OCZ StealthXStream 500W
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| Posted: Fri, 14th Oct 2011 12:21 Post subject: |
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Any idea how long it usually takes steam games to hit internet sites? Would be cool to play it during the weekend.
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| Posted: Fri, 14th Oct 2011 12:42 Post subject: |
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| mvp wrote: | | Any idea how long it usually takes steam games to hit internet sites? Would be cool to play it during the weekend. |
When it gets activated on Steam.
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| Posted: Fri, 14th Oct 2011 13:34 Post subject: I have left. |
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| Posted: Fri, 14th Oct 2011 15:15 Post subject: |
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How the hell do you do that in PES or FIFA? It would mean setting up complex instructions depending on player position and game style/progression.
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| Posted: Fri, 14th Oct 2011 17:57 Post subject: |
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| Posted: Fri, 14th Oct 2011 19:23 Post subject: |
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That's why you have all the individual sliders for individual players. The match engine isn't strict, it's dynamic. Position isn't sticky, a player will choose position according to the values you give him with the sliders and his ability. The examples you give are basic formations, which you selected from teh presaved tactics. You can tweak it to your hearts content. The instructions you give in the tactics screen is important, not the position.
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| Posted: Fri, 14th Oct 2011 20:41 Post subject: ' |
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Instructions will only tell the player how to play from his preset position. When you are playing something simple like 4-4-2 that is quite enough, but when trying to tweak something more complex, you are without tools to do so.
Now thats not the only problem, bigger one in not being able to select precise position on the field has serious problems in squad selection. Palermos formation in above diagram is from last years Delio Rossis 4-3-3. It is also their default formation in the game, but their squad is completely unsuitable to play it like that in FM. You need 3 strikers, and 3 cms, but you have two great AMs, and couple of great DMs in the squad that you have nowhere to put unless you want them playing off their preferred positions and getting performance penalty for that. Human player can conjure something from that squad, but AI will just drop great players to the bench and play with weaker ones that are the right position.
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| Posted: Fri, 14th Oct 2011 21:10 Post subject: |
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The tactics engine is fairly restrictive. For example you cant create the famous Ajax system even when allowing everyone to have the most creativity, roaming, etc.
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| Posted: Sat, 15th Oct 2011 02:40 Post subject: |
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http://www.fm-britain.co.uk/tactics-ebooks/tactical-theorems-10/
The FM tactics system is incredibly complex if you delve deep enough into the sliders, this is a very good (and long) read on many things FM, including how to setup those highly complex tactics, I believe the same guys that developed the Tactical Theorems and Frameworks also released complete plug and play tactics including many asymmetrical setups and the famous Dutch 'Total Football' system.
The issue is that the finer details of positioning and other tactical nuances only become obvious to you once you fully understand what each slider does in the match engine itself.
You will not be able to achieve these results without using the individual sliders and setting every player up with their own set of very finely tuned instructions, especially since they moved over to the much more ambiguous tactical system in FM 2010 (you can still access the advanced instructions, which was the default prior this release) - its much easier to understand for a new player, sure, but once you read that e-book (or gain the knowledge through other means) and grow a much deeper understanding of the tactical system in FM - it becomes horribly limiting.
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| Posted: Sat, 15th Oct 2011 10:12 Post subject: |
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| Snuggleh wrote: | http://www.fm-britain.co.uk/tactics-ebooks/tactical-theorems-10/
The FM tactics system is incredibly complex if you delve deep enough into the sliders, this is a very good (and long) read on many things FM, including how to setup those highly complex tactics, I believe the same guys that developed the Tactical Theorems and Frameworks also released complete plug and play tactics including many asymmetrical setups and the famous Dutch 'Total Football' system.
The issue is that the finer details of positioning and other tactical nuances only become obvious to you once you fully understand what each slider does in the match engine itself.
You will not be able to achieve these results without using the individual sliders and setting every player up with their own set of very finely tuned instructions, especially since they moved over to the much more ambiguous tactical system in FM 2010 (you can still access the advanced instructions, which was the default prior this release) - its much easier to understand for a new player, sure, but once you read that e-book (or gain the knowledge through other means) and grow a much deeper understanding of the tactical system in FM - it becomes horribly limiting. |
It's mostly like in real life. You probably won't make any progress without taking care of the tactics aswell.
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| Posted: Sat, 15th Oct 2011 12:36 Post subject: |
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| hehehemann wrote: | | The tactics engine is fairly restrictive. For example you cant create the famous Ajax system even when allowing everyone to have the most creativity, roaming, etc. |
The Ajax system is created in every iteration of FM, look at their forums. I used it once, works as it's supposed to. If you believe the Ajax system is just a lot of creativity and roaming, you're mistaken.
As Snuggleh pointed out, the match engine and tactics system is very complex. You should not even dare to compare it to PES or Fifa.
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| Posted: Sat, 15th Oct 2011 13:37 Post subject: b |
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| Snuggleh wrote: | http://www.fm-britain.co.uk/tactics-ebooks/tactical-theorems-10/
The FM tactics system is incredibly complex if you delve deep enough into the sliders, this is a very good (and long) read on many things FM, including how to setup those highly complex tactics, I believe the same guys that developed the Tactical Theorems and Frameworks also released complete plug and play tactics including many asymmetrical setups and the famous Dutch 'Total Football' system.
The issue is that the finer details of positioning and other tactical nuances only become obvious to you once you fully understand what each slider does in the match engine itself.
You will not be able to achieve these results without using the individual sliders and setting every player up with their own set of very finely tuned instructions, especially since they moved over to the much more ambiguous tactical system in FM 2010 (you can still access the advanced instructions, which was the default prior this release) - its much easier to understand for a new player, sure, but once you read that e-book (or gain the knowledge through other means) and grow a much deeper understanding of the tactical system in FM - it becomes horribly limiting. |
In truth, that book is pretty much useless. There really are no complex universal tactics that will work in FM. Everything is depending on the squad that is available to you. If you are playing super rich teams you really don't need to bother with tactics. Just buy best players and pretty much everything will work. And If you are playing poorer club, you are forced to play based on players that you have. You also can't get whoever you want, so you have to adapt formation to who you get.
If you really want to power game, the key is finding formation that works the best each year (Mourinhos default 4-2-3-1 in FM11), then just setting instructions for your players. That also isn't rocket science. Naturally you will discourage crossing for wingers that have weak crosses, and set it so your small forward will not get crosses to his feet.
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| Posted: Sat, 15th Oct 2011 13:42 Post subject: |
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WTF? Isn't that how it works in real life? You obviously don't know WTF you're talking about, it's perfectly possible to beat a big team down with an average squad of players by setting them up properly and using tweaked tactics. Of course an universal tactic won't work, of course you have to set up a tactic according to your squad. You think a man like Ferguson has a standard tactic he uses for 25 years? Just buy the best team of players and you'll win? You obviously have never played against a team led by another human being.
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| Posted: Sat, 15th Oct 2011 14:30 Post subject: |
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| Mister_s wrote: | | WTF? Isn't that how it works in real life? You obviously don't know WTF you're talking about, it's perfectly possible to beat a big team down with an average squad of players by setting them up properly and using tweaked tactics. Of course an universal tactic won't work, of course you have to set up a tactic according to your squad. You think a man like Ferguson has a standard tactic he uses for 25 years? Just buy the best team of players and you'll win? You obviously have never played against a team led by another human being. |
+1
He's trolling.
i7 6700k @ 4.4 GHZ, 2060s, 16 GB RAM, SSD, Windows 10x64.
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locke89
Posts: 2812
Location: Poland
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| Posted: Sat, 15th Oct 2011 14:48 Post subject: |
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I wonder if they'll still release stanaldone patches or they're gonna be distributed only through Steam...
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| Posted: Sat, 15th Oct 2011 15:56 Post subject: |
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| Mister_s wrote: | | WTF? Isn't that how it works in real life? You obviously don't know WTF you're talking about, it's perfectly possible to beat a big team down with an average squad of players by setting them up properly and using tweaked tactics. Of course an universal tactic won't work, of course you have to set up a tactic according to your squad. You think a man like Ferguson has a standard tactic he uses for 25 years? Just buy the best team of players and you'll win? You obviously have never played against a team led by another human being. |
Thats exactly what I'm talking about. In FM you have 4-4-2 and its the same no matter what. Personal instructions can change it a little and make your players perform better, but thats it, your options are spent. In FM you can play 25 seasons with same formations and still win. Just look at some formation forums, they post same formations with little tweaks and call it crazy names.
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| Posted: Sat, 15th Oct 2011 16:10 Post subject: |
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| fawe4 wrote: | | Mister_s wrote: | | WTF? Isn't that how it works in real life? You obviously don't know WTF you're talking about, it's perfectly possible to beat a big team down with an average squad of players by setting them up properly and using tweaked tactics. Of course an universal tactic won't work, of course you have to set up a tactic according to your squad. You think a man like Ferguson has a standard tactic he uses for 25 years? Just buy the best team of players and you'll win? You obviously have never played against a team led by another human being. |
Thats exactly what I'm talking about. In FM you have 4-4-2 and its the same no matter what. Personal instructions can change it a little and make your players perform better, but thats it, your options are spent. In FM you can play 25 seasons with same formations and still win. Just look at some formation forums, they post same formations with little tweaks and call it crazy names. |
You have no idea what you're talking about. No shit if you have a squad worth 1 billion euro it doesent take any tactical prowess to succeed, you can just spam continue and take quadruples every year - some people may enjoy that but the bread and butter of FM is taking a lower league club or at the very least a struggling top division side and turning them into world beaters - which takes plenty of tactical tweaking.
Its very obvious that you actually have no clue about how the match engine in FM works, or you wouldnt be spouting such tripe. You can turn a 4-4-2 formation into a 6-2-2 or anything else you wanted using player instructions alone, even if it still looks like a 4-4-2 on the formation screen, inside the match engine it would look and play out completely different - but no its easier to just glance at the formation screen and call the ACTUAL tactics inside the advanced menus ''slight tweaks''
And btw, playing FM with a weak team without using at least 3 sets of tactics is suicidal.
Thats fine though, go play PES and tell yourself its tactically more complex than FM, just go away with your nonsensical bs.
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| Posted: Sat, 15th Oct 2011 16:34 Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Its very obvious that you actually have no clue about how the match engine in FM works, or you wouldnt be spouting such tripe. You can turn a 4-4-2 formation into a 6-2-2 or anything else you wanted using player instructions alone, even if it still looks like a 4-4-2 on the formation screen, inside the match engine it would look and play out completely different - but no its easier to just glance at the formation screen and call the ACTUAL tactics inside the advanced menus ''slight tweaks'' |
Thats simply not possible. If its 4-4-2 on formation screen it can't be anything else in the match. What you can do is make wingbacks move more into offense or central middlefielders play more defensive, but you can't make it play like different formation.
I'd really like to see what advance menus you are talking about, because I surely don't have them in my game.
ps. Who said that pes is more tactical? I said it has better formation system. Far better.
Last edited by fawe4 on Sat, 15th Oct 2011 16:44; edited 1 time in total
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| Posted: Sat, 15th Oct 2011 16:43 Post subject: |
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You can pull back the DMs for example by giving them a very defensive mentality, making it 6-2-2. It's as simple as that. You obviously don't have teh slightest clue how the match engine works. Just because you use a 4-4-2 formation does not mean the players are stuck in their positions. The formation is a simple framework, possibly the least important thing in the tactics. A very strict formation is only wise for very average squads.
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| Posted: Sat, 15th Oct 2011 16:57 Post subject: |
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| Mister_s wrote: | | You can pull back the DMs for example by giving them a very defensive mentality, making it 6-2-2. It's as simple as that. You obviously don't have teh slightest clue how the match engine works. Just because you use a 4-4-2 formation does not mean the players are stuck in their positions. The formation is a simple framework, possibly the least important thing in the tactics. A very strict formation is only wise for very average squads. |
But that is not 6-2-2. Its 4-4-2 with DMs playing way back. Even if you defense/offense slider enabled you to send DMs so much back that they played in defense, you'd still have DMs standing on top of each other during the match. Players just aren't smart enough in the game to position themselves correctly.
Look, I understand that starting formation is only the basis for the positioning during the match, but what you apparently don't understand is that starting formation is vital for the selection of players.
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| Posted: Sun, 16th Oct 2011 11:07 Post subject: |
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Anyone played the FM 2012 demo? I've played with two clubs and the avr. score in my games is 4-5 goals, plus it seems way too easy. Anyone else have this experience?
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| Posted: Sun, 16th Oct 2011 11:30 Post subject: |
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What team were you? I played Arsenal and finished the year at the top of the table. Now I'm Liverpool and in November I occupy 5th place. If you are Man Utd/Chelsea/Barca manager you usually control every game, that's OK I reckon.
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| Posted: Sun, 16th Oct 2011 13:09 Post subject: |
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| bart89 wrote: | | What team were you? I played Arsenal and finished the year at the top of the table. Now I'm Liverpool and in November I occupy 5th place. If you are Man Utd/Chelsea/Barca manager you usually control every game, that's OK I reckon. |
I made a post about this on another forum so i'm just going to copy/paste that here.
This game is so easy its not even fun.
Started with a team in Blue Square North, predicted 9th, was on top of my league with 10 matches played.
After reading on sigames forum, how other people thought this game was too easy, I thought I would test how easy this game really was, so started a new game with West Brom with a few "rules".
Only my assistent could talk to the press, and I declined the initial press conference.
My assistent would handle all pre match, halftime and post match talks. Player instructions as well.
I would play with the default 4-4-1-1 formation i was given, only changing my one wing to "automatic" instead of "defending" so he would have the same status as the opposite wing.
No substitutions during match.
No shouts during match.
No team meeting or individual player talks.
No pre match substitutions, except for injury/red card, or fitness below 80%
Pretty much dont do anything, except letting my assistent do everything, and press continue.
No incomming players
Sell/loan players if offer was fair.
I played half the season, finishing 9th, and im in the semi final in the cup. By just pressing continue.....
Also there seems to be too many goals scored in my matches, in both my games there is 4-5 goals scored on average.
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| Posted: Sun, 16th Oct 2011 13:54 Post subject: I have left. |
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| Posted: Sun, 16th Oct 2011 16:37 Post subject: |
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Maybe they lowered the difficulty because a lot of people bitched how hard FM11 was? I didn't play the demo though.
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no9999
Posts: 3437
Location: Behind you...
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| Posted: Sun, 16th Oct 2011 18:49 Post subject: |
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I played FML (football manager live) for almost 2yrs and i have one thing to say....
they made the game a lot easier for Noobs (=more sales).
There arent a lot of people who actually really want to do research for a football simulation game.
Like one of the guys mentioned above "press enter" and you'll win plenty.
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| Posted: Mon, 17th Oct 2011 04:45 Post subject: |
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demo has been quite different in this series
Sig too big
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| Posted: Mon, 17th Oct 2011 07:36 Post subject: |
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| Mister_s wrote: | | Maybe they lowered the difficulty because a lot of people bitched how hard FM11 was? I didn't play the demo though. |
Ehh? FM2011 was too EASY, not hard.
3 simple reasons:
1) Selling players. Teams just did not want to buy players from a top club. Overall, if you load a game and play 1 season in each FM2010 and FM2011, you'll see almost double the amount of transactions in FM2010.
2) Agents getting pissed at you for no reason (negotiating is a part of business, not a reason to refuse to do business with them).
3) Backup/19yr olds wanting 200K salaries. I promoted a 19 year old DM for a few cup games because he's going to be good. He started in 2 cup games and 1 sub appearance. Aside from this, he's never played for the senior team. His salary request? A cool 235K, making him, by far, the highest paid player of the team.
If you want to beat FM2011 (without cheating)? Easy. Don't buy anyone expensive. Look around and buy any teenager who is doing well on the cheap. Hold your ground for a few years, and a few of these guys will turn into stars. Either sell them and buy your needs or grow the team around them. I don't care what league you're in, if you have half a brain, the CL will be yours in a few years. --- This strategy is really for career mode, not intended to win everything in year 1.
It's not even a challenge on FM11. FM12? Haven't tried this yet.
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