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Sin317
Banned
Posts: 24322
Location: Geneva
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 Posted: Wed, 2nd Nov 2011 11:22 Post subject: |
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btw, its fun to see people go bananas about these kind of problems lol ...
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| Posted: Wed, 2nd Nov 2011 11:32 Post subject: |
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Last edited by Interinactive on Tue, 5th Oct 2021 04:44; edited 1 time in total
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Lutzifer
Modzilla
Posts: 12740
Location: ____________________ **** vegan zombie **** GRRAAIIINNSS _______
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| Posted: Wed, 2nd Nov 2011 12:20 Post subject: |
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| SpykeZ wrote: | I'm not going to add to the fire but people pointing the nitpicking finger and saying people are overreacting is the very attitude that got us starforce, securom and this UBI crap. It doesn't matter if it's going over board or not, people who are paying for their software have the right to voice a concern about companies trying to get away with crap like this.
Keep saying people are over reacting, or people need to go sit back on the fence. It's the very same attitude that allowed our government here in the U.S. to get so bad.
These gaming companies work for US..the paying customer. They should be making software the caters to their needs and not theirs, and as soon as everyone lets them, you'll be running a digital service for every separate publisher out there while having to have branded USB sticks coded with special top secret codes to run your games. |
QFT |
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| Posted: Wed, 2nd Nov 2011 12:41 Post subject: |
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Last edited by Interinactive on Tue, 5th Oct 2021 04:44; edited 1 time in total
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nerrd
Posts: 3607
Location: Poland / USA
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| Posted: Wed, 2nd Nov 2011 17:36 Post subject: |
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| Werelds wrote: | | Everything gathers stats these days, just about all software phones home. |
Anonymous stats relative to the given program, and personal data tied to an IP are two completely different things.
| Werelds wrote: | | I'd love to have a look on nerrd's or Roger_Young's PCs because I'm pretty sure within 10 minutes I'll identify 5 pieces of software that send data as well. |
Sends data? Sure. Sands personal data that it doesn't need to or isn't allowed to? I'm pretty sure you wouldn't. And if it does, it's doing it illegaly and against my will, and I would be easily able to fight it in court if needed. Can't say the same about Origin.
I wish there was a emoticon with a smiley that has a plane passing high over the head because this would be a perfect time to use it. The problem is not what EA does or does not mine for, or how bad its' everywhere else, but what they can mine once you agree to that very open ended EULA. Werelds mentioned phone and cable companies etc. How do you think that issue started? Exactly like this. Majority of people not giving a fuck and not doing anything about it until it starts to effect them at a personal level at which points it's too late.
If you truly don't care about this, and you think EA is doing everything OK, and should continue this course of action then ..... well, you can't possibly think that way can you? So why come here and argue with the people that are trying to resolve this issue?
I find it interesting (read: sad) how people that are simply voicing their concerns about this issue are opposed by "lol, its funny....", or "get off the internet", or "blah-blah tinfoil" arguments.
We (me and others that share my opinion) are not paranoid. I could easly install Origin today and sleep peacefully that evening. We are concerned because we see this thing becoming a bigger and bigger issue every day. Someone has to put their foot down and make a stand.
btw. | rstratton wrote: | | Battlefield 3 Multiplayer Without Origin Internal-Razor1911 |
Stupid noob crackers, paranoid and shit. What the fuck they know about privacy, software etc. lolololololo!@!!@ get of the internetz /sarcasm
TLTR: read the bold part, over and over and over .... until you understand the issue.
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Przepraszam
VIP Member
Posts: 14515
Location: Poland. New York.
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| Posted: Wed, 2nd Nov 2011 18:01 Post subject: |
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Blizzard has been doing it for years to 11 million players world-wide
Yea, at first people bitched and cry all over internetz and were just told...and then just people accepted and moved on with their life...
Same thing will happen here in a month or two, people will forget and continue on their daily routine. There might be few forum trolls who will bring issue once in a while to anger everyone.
If you don't like it CLICK ON DON'T AGREE. There problem solved.
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Lutzifer
Modzilla
Posts: 12740
Location: ____________________ **** vegan zombie **** GRRAAIIINNSS _______
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| Posted: Wed, 2nd Nov 2011 18:02 Post subject: |
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well said nerrd. We already live in a post-privacy world, which means that it is even more important to have laws that keep the core-private things (like for example HDDs of a personal computer) private and out of reach for data-mining by state and private companies.
and as i said before, the argument that those who do not have anything to hide, wont mind the scans, just reeks of socialist reasoning employed in the east block (concerning cameras and the state trying to get all details of the private lifes of their citizens, e.g. stasi)
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Lutzifer
Modzilla
Posts: 12740
Location: ____________________ **** vegan zombie **** GRRAAIIINNSS _______
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| Posted: Wed, 2nd Nov 2011 18:05 Post subject: |
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| besthijacker wrote: | Blizzard has been doing it for years to 11 million players world-wide
Yea, at first people bitched and cry all over internetz and were just told...and then just people accepted and moved on with their life...
Same thing will happen here in a month or two, people will forget and continue on their daily routine. There might be few forum trolls who will bring issue once in a while to anger everyone.
If you don't like it CLICK ON DON'T AGREE. There problem solved. |
that does not reflect the state of law we live in. A Eula that is illegal and actions that are illegal can not be made legal by aggreeing with them. And blizzard always quickly pedalled back on the problematic issues as well, because they knew it would bite them in the ass if they didnt. But true, it is eroding to the gameing culture and thats why people argue against it. |
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Przepraszam
VIP Member
Posts: 14515
Location: Poland. New York.
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| Posted: Wed, 2nd Nov 2011 18:16 Post subject: |
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I see when logging into WoW. "Submitting non-personal information". Who know what actually information they are getting. I stopped caring after a while because it's pointless.
Government already spys on us everyday, From reading our email/text msges/ and phone conversations...People have been fighting this for years. I already had conversation on this with my boss. And frankly, I stopped giving shit about all that in general. There are far more important things to worry about like, health, friends, family, studies...
There is no more Democracy in this world.
Unless there is some form of leadership. We probably won't get far. Just like Occupy Wallstreet. All people support it but in reality if you go there ( I went there). And it's just bunch of stoners talking about different ideas on how to fix the economy. There is not clear leader with set of ideas that will be the speaker of the people. with time, it will fail.
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| Posted: Wed, 2nd Nov 2011 18:18 Post subject: |
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| Werelds wrote: | I'd love to have a look on nerrd's or Roger_Young's PCs because I'm pretty sure within 10 minutes I'll identify 5 pieces of software that send data as well.
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That doesn't mean that I don't care and if it's doing, it's against my will.
Can I live? Sure I can. But it's wrong.
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nerrd
Posts: 3607
Location: Poland / USA
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| Posted: Wed, 2nd Nov 2011 18:41 Post subject: |
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| besthijacker wrote: | | If you don't like it CLICK ON DON'T AGREE. There problem solved. |
That's one way to do it. Bend over, spread it, take it in the ass, but in a quite tone say "I don't really like it up my ass, but shit, this BF3 feels pretty good" Another way, would be not to bend over at all, keep your own ass safe just in case. But the best solution is to tell that black dude with a 24" dong to fuck off, and never come back in hopes that no-one else ever has to bend over.
I like what you said in your fallow up post. Glad to see that you understand and see the issue at hand. First thing towards recovery is admitting there is a problem. We cant possibly hope to fix everything right away, but we can spread awareness and educate people. You say there are far more important things to worry about, like friends family etc. Do you have kids? Either way, wouldn't it be very important to try to make their world a better place? Even if it only means not giving up?
I see the same problem every day. On this forum, too many intelligent, kind people have given up and left because they got tired of fighting with ever increasing waves of trolls. The same goes for the real world where a small group can't possibly fight governments backed by large businesses which only care about personal gain. Don't give up man. If your not part of the solution you are part of the problem.
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Przepraszam
VIP Member
Posts: 14515
Location: Poland. New York.
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| Posted: Wed, 2nd Nov 2011 19:05 Post subject: |
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Yep. If everyone would agree just like me to anything 
Occupy WallStreet is perfect example. There are plenty of groups around the world who -would- like to have same thing. Unless there is a leader, who would unify everything together. It will simply break. Even now, you stop hearing about this in the news, because those people provide no real threat against government officials(who they themselve elected) and big corporations.
I think that, EA already made their yearly sale from BF3 and simply won't care at all.
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nerrd
Posts: 3607
Location: Poland / USA
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| Posted: Wed, 2nd Nov 2011 19:14 Post subject: |
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A leader alone is a single man. You need a large group of people with the same beliefs and willingness to act to make a change. The larger the better. That's where you come in, by spreading the word, caring and not giving up because of what seems like an impossible task.
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| Posted: Wed, 2nd Nov 2011 19:34 Post subject: |
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| besthijacker wrote: |
I think that, EA already made their yearly sale from BF3 and simply won't care at all. |
Don't be to sure.
If the German government (or any other EU gov.) won't allow selling games with that kind of spyware they will care, they always want to make more money.
I don't care that much, i would have liked to play BF3 (been to long since i've played a nice shooter) but i'll wait for the next shooter without spyware.
Last edited by Ghworg on Wed, 2nd Nov 2011 20:24; edited 1 time in total
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| Posted: Wed, 2nd Nov 2011 19:36 Post subject: |
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| nerrd wrote: | | besthijacker wrote: | | If you don't like it CLICK ON DON'T AGREE. There problem solved. |
That's one way to do it. Bend over, spread it, take it in the ass, but in a quite tone say "I don't really like it up my ass, but shit, this BF3 feels pretty good" Another way, would be not to bend over at all, keep your own ass safe just in case. But the best solution is to tell that black dude with a 24" dong to fuck off, and never come back in hopes that no-one else ever has to bend over.
I like what you said in your fallow up post. Glad to see that you understand and see the issue at hand. First thing towards recovery is admitting there is a problem. We cant possibly hope to fix everything right away, but we can spread awareness and educate people. You say there are far more important things to worry about, like friends family etc. Do you have kids? Either way, wouldn't it be very important to try to make their world a better place? Even if it only means not giving up?
I see the same problem every day. On this forum, too many intelligent, kind people have given up and left because they got tired of fighting with ever increasing waves of trolls. The same goes for the real world where a small group can't possibly fight governments backed by large businesses which only care about personal gain. Don't give up man. If your not part of the solution you are part of the problem. |
Very nicely said. I agree with you on this. More people should think about what's happening to them and not just bend over and let it happen like there's nothing to be done.
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Werelds
Special Little Man
Posts: 15098
Location: 0100111001001100
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| Posted: Wed, 2nd Nov 2011 20:55 Post subject: |
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| nerrd wrote: | | Sends data? Sure. Sands personal data that it doesn't need to or isn't allowed to? I'm pretty sure you wouldn't. And if it does, it's doing it illegaly and against my will, and I would be easily able to fight it in court if needed. Can't say the same about Origin. |
And where is the proof that it sent any data about the files it encountered while looking for games to EA? All that's been shown so far is that Origin accessed some files in public directories. Boo fucking hoo.
I guess I just have a different opinion about what privacy is about. The data I want to keep private is in secure folders on separate partitions, just like the private stuff I do in real life, I do behind closed doors (so the heaps of midget scat porn from the VIP FTP are secure  ). With Origin accessing some files in publicly accessible directories that are mostly MEANT FOR SHARING DATA, I can't say I'm concerned. Any software that stores sensitive data there is stupid, because that's not where it belongs and it's that software's fault, not Origin's; that's like a security firm putting the alarm system access panel on the outside of your house yet you complain that your relatives who you gladly allow onto your property can easily access it. Now, if they started accessing everything in "My Documents" (easy example as that *is* private data for the most part, yet it is not secured unless you made that happen), that would be a different story.
The problem is not an invasion of privacy. The problem is people blindly accepting EULAs because we're used to seeing the same useless shit over and over. Perhaps I shouldn't have called it paranoia as much as plain stupidity? Do you blindly sign contracts you get? No, you don't. The difference is that with "regular" contracts (because legally speaking, an EULA is in fact a contract and it is binding for both parties) you can SOMETIMES negotiate. More often than not however, even then you are not in a position to negotiate because you have no alternatives. Anyone who has ever done any business knows this; some sectors are filled with these kind of bad contracts.
And while I'm on the subject of the legal side of things, it accessing those files in those directories (note that even reading a filename without even reading the actual file looks the same through the Win32 API) is perfectly legal, as it's not invading your privacy. Privacy is about information (because that's what this is about) personal to you; the information in those directories is not personal to you (shouldn't be at least, like I said before). If they do access personal files in "My Documents" or just anything outside the directories software is allowed access to by the operating system (and this goes for any OS), that's when they're doing something illegal and that gives you every right to sue. Instead of throwing a hissy fit like a 12 year old and believing everything that's being said, I wish some of you would grow the balls to actually ANALYZE what Origin does - and if it does something illegal: SUE THEM. It is that simple.
I'll give you an example of what I mean by this. Here in NL there's a mail order company who sell socks, underwear, stuff like that (they're called TONO for any Dutchies - do not get into bed with them, they'll bug you for the rest of your life). Now, I've never used their services, never will either. My dad however, has; his first name starts with a P just like mine, so we're often confused unless we give our full names and/or birth names (Catholic heritage, so we got 4 birth names + surname).
This company started phoning me about their shit. First time I kindly asked them to fix their data and not ring me again. They rang a few more times, at which point I got pissed; now instead of doing what you guys do, which is bitching about it, I did some research into my rights. By Dutch law, they were not allowed to phone me, because I was never one of their clients myself. Next time they rang, I told them this and I warned them that I'd take legal action if they rang me once more, at which point the employee got scared and my call was transferred to their floor manager. The time after that, I kindly asked for their address before saying anything, then I told the fuckwit on the phone to expect some legal papers soon enough. Rang "my" lawyer (not really mine, but meh), got some papers drafted and sent off to them and the lower court. End result? No more calls in the past 6 months, reimbursed for all the costs I had to make.
That's how you fucking deal with it, not by whining on a goddamn forum and acting as if your house is being invaded. I might be an ass to respond the way I have, but I've actually dealt with shit like this for real. I do business every day, I know how much bullshit is put into contracts (hell, I put a lot in my contracts as well, just to protect my own ass). I don't "bend over and take it in the ass", I'm just really not concerned in this case as I've got nothing to hide in those folders. If I was concerned, I would be doing something about it.
Don't like it? Stop whining and do something about it. That's the only thing that'll "fix" it, end of story.
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nerrd
Posts: 3607
Location: Poland / USA
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| Posted: Wed, 2nd Nov 2011 21:37 Post subject: |
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Lots of good points and I agree for the most part. However I don't feel that I'm whining, but simply attempting to explain my point of view, and hopefully make few people understand. This along with boycotting any and all EA games, is also my first step of doing something about it.
On the topic of what personal privacy means. For me it could be anything from work related papers, to family photos, certainly don't want to share that. Another person might not want anyone to see what programs they have installed, or how often they are used. I don't think it's my or your job to judge what private information is.
You mentioned you keep your important stuff in a secure folder on a separate partition, obviously to protect it. Smart and logical. But protect it from who? Obviously by anyone or any software that is not supposed to access them. Then why the hell would you would you allow someone with a shitty reputation like EA to possibly have a legal right to do so? You feel protected because you know what you are doing. What about all those people that are barely logging online. It's not only about you and me, but about everyone and their future. You give a company like this an inch now, it's much easier for them to take a foot later.
Last edited by nerrd on Wed, 2nd Nov 2011 21:59; edited 1 time in total
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sausje
Banned
Posts: 17716
Location: Limboland, Netherlands
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| Posted: Wed, 2nd Nov 2011 21:40 Post subject: |
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| nerrd wrote: | | Lots of good points and I agree for the most part. However I don't feel that I'm whining, but simply attempting to explain my point of view, and hopefully make few people understand. This along with boycotting any and all EA games, is also my first step of doing something about it. |
Boycotting
So useless these days.
Proud member of Frustrated Association of International Losers Failing Against the Gifted and Superior (F.A.I.L.F.A.G.S)
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Werelds
Special Little Man
Posts: 15098
Location: 0100111001001100
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| Posted: Thu, 3rd Nov 2011 00:10 Post subject: |
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| nerrd wrote: | | Lots of good points and I agree for the most part. However I don't feel that I'm whining, but simply attempting to explain my point of view, and hopefully make few people understand. This along with boycotting any and all EA games, is also my first step of doing something about it. |
I completely get your point, but in the case of Origin nothing is proven and it's blown out of proportion like crazy; governments spy on us more than EA does with Origin (at least what's been proven so far). Boycotting won't do anything though, they won't notice that. An online petition followed by a mass suit of hundreds suing them is what will get some attention 
| nerrd wrote: | | On the topic of what personal privacy means. For me it could be anything from work related papers, to family photos, certainly don't want to share that. Another person might not want anyone to see what programs they have installed, or how often they are used. I don't think it's my or your job to judge what private information is. |
Well the problem isn't what a user considers private; 99.9999% of all users are too dumb for that, as they'd make everything private which would in turn break their computer. That's exactly why places like ProgramData exist - the OS and other software *needs* these things to work. This is where I again point at features available in Windows, but not clear enough; you can get pretty darn close to UNIX file rights where no software could possibly access your files without explicit permission and we've even got proper encryption available these days - it's all there, just not obvious to the average user.
| nerrd wrote: | | You mentioned you keep your important stuff in a secure folder on a separate partition, obviously to protect it. Smart and logical. But protect it from who? Obviously by anyone or any software that is not supposed to access them. Then why the hell would you would you allow someone with a shitty reputation like EA to possibly have a legal right to do so? You feel protected because you know what you are doing. What about all those people that are barely logging online. It's not only about you and me, but about everyone and their future. You give a company like this an inch now, it's much easier for them to take a foot later. |
I get your point, but even with their fucked up EULA they wouldn't have a right to access those files even if I left them unprotected. By moving them out of publicly accessible directories they have to actively scan my entire drive, which is indeed an invasion of my privacy - so far, no proof it has done that 
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Sin317
Banned
Posts: 24322
Location: Geneva
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| Posted: Thu, 3rd Nov 2011 00:19 Post subject: |
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im kinda curious about what exactly people think origin (or whatever other app) is actually transmitting that could hurt them soo much.
(i am asking this very well knowing that neither origin nor blizzard etc are transmitting anything personal or personally identifiable).
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| Posted: Thu, 3rd Nov 2011 00:53 Post subject: |
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http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2011-11-01-ea-denies-origin-spying-on-battlefield-3-users
| Quote: | "We do not have access to information such as pictures, documents or personal data, which have nothing to do with the execution of the Origin program on the system of the player, neither will they be collected by us.
"EA takes the privacy of its users very seriously. We have taken every precaution to protect the personal and anonymous user data collected." |
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