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Werelds
Special Little Man
Posts: 15098
Location: 0100111001001100
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 Posted: Thu, 3rd Nov 2011 11:22 Post subject: |
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| Casus wrote: | Thanks 
Well, I won't argue that it's particularly sensible. At first, I'd considered a 570 - but I hate getting a new toy unless it's really significant. Once I decided I wanted more than 1.5GB VRAM for the future (BF3 already pushes the 1GB stuff) - the price was so high, I thought I might as well go for the 50% potential performance increase of the 590 for a bit more money.
But it IS kinda over-the-top. Sometimes, you just have to spoil yourself a bit. I haven't had a new toy in ages. The last 5-6 months, the GF has been spoiled. |
Thing is though, a pair of 6950's/6970's/570's are all *substantially* faster than a 590; in the case of the 6950's, substantially cheaper too. The issues are there regardless of whether you have a single card or not, multi-GPU == multi-GPU 
Edit @ dabeast: that still doesn't make sense. I was talking about SLI and CFX in general, which is just broken in this game. Boo fucking hoo, you have issues with CFX. Well guess what, 15 years after 3DFX came up with it, noone has fixed the issues yet and they're there on both sides; it's inherent to how the current technologies work and no matter how much work they do on the drivers, they'll never fix it. AFR is unfixable so we are all fucking then 
Last edited by Werelds on Thu, 3rd Nov 2011 11:24; edited 2 times in total
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| Posted: Thu, 3rd Nov 2011 11:25 Post subject: |
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just 2 short questions:
1. why do u need a supressor? it hides sound and muzzle flash but who cares? or do u get "auto"-revealed on the minimap for a short time when u shoot without a suppressor (i think that was the case in modern warfare!?) i just dont realy why to use a suppressor? it also lowers dmg a bit....
2. has the nforhump server adress changed? it wasnt listed yesterday!?
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| Posted: Thu, 3rd Nov 2011 11:26 Post subject: |
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| pfeiffchen wrote: | just 2 short questions:
1. why do u need a supressor? it hides sound and muzzle flash but who cares? or do u get "auto"-revealed on the minimap for a short time when u shoot without a suppressor (i think that was the case in modern warfare!?) i just dont realy why to use a suppressor? it also lowers dmg a bit....
2. has the nforhump server adress changed? it wasnt listed yesterday!? |
1.Yes if you don't use a suppressor you appear on the minimap
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| Posted: Thu, 3rd Nov 2011 11:30 Post subject: |
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| Werelds wrote: | | Casus wrote: | Thanks
Well, I won't argue that it's particularly sensible. At first, I'd considered a 570 - but I hate getting a new toy unless it's really significant. Once I decided I wanted more than 1.5GB VRAM for the future (BF3 already pushes the 1GB stuff) - the price was so high, I thought I might as well go for the 50% potential performance increase of the 590 for a bit more money.
But it IS kinda over-the-top. Sometimes, you just have to spoil yourself a bit. I haven't had a new toy in ages. The last 5-6 months, the GF has been spoiled. |
Thing is though, a pair of 6950's/6970's/570's are all *substantially* faster than a 590; in the case of the 6950's, substantially cheaper too. The issues are there regardless of whether you have a single card or not, multi-GPU == multi-GPU
Edit @ dabeast: that still doesn't make sense. I was talking about SLI and CFX in general, which is just broken in this game. Boo fucking hoo, you have issues with CFX. Well guess what, 15 years after 3DFX came up with it, noone has fixed the issues yet and they're there on both sides; it's inherent to how the current technologies work and no matter how much work they do on the drivers, they'll never fix it. AFR is unfixable so we are all fucking then |
Yeah, but I'm staying away from ATI this time. Too many driver issues with too many games.
Also, I like the idea of 3D Vision - and it pisses me off when games use PhysX and I can't take advantage of it.
As for 2 570 - the price might be similar, but the VRAM is way too low for the future - and I'd have to have a SLI board and I wouldn't be able to upgrade in the future anyway.
The simple truth of upgrading, is that no matter what you do and how you choose, there will be something better out there for some purpose.
If it wasn't for a lot of bad experiences with ATI drivers lately, I'd probably have gone for a 6970 or two. But after weighing the options, I think I've arrived at something I'll be happy with.
No big deal either way, as I'm not one to care about money once they're spent. Well, unless it turns out that Nvidia drivers are equally crappy. But that hasn't been my experience so far.
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chiv
Posts: 27530
Location: Behind You...
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| Posted: Thu, 3rd Nov 2011 11:48 Post subject: |
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add a please to that, throw it on the 'codes begging thread', and you might get a result...
anyone else remember the days when parents brought their kids up to say please instead of just demand shit like they were entitled? 
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Werelds
Special Little Man
Posts: 15098
Location: 0100111001001100
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| Posted: Thu, 3rd Nov 2011 11:50 Post subject: |
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| Casus wrote: | | Also, I like the idea of 3D Vision - and it pisses me off when games use PhysX and I can't take advantage of it. |
3D Vision in its current form will disappear as proper 3D has a brighter future (most monitor manufacturers have one or more monitors aimed at using the TriDef or in Zalman's case, iZ3D drivers which work on both sides) and PhysX, well . . 
| Casus wrote: | | As for 2 570 - the price might be similar, but the VRAM is way too low for the future - and I'd have to have a SLI board and I wouldn't be able to upgrade in the future anyway. |
You do realise a 590 only has 1.5GB effectively right? it's 1.5GB per GPU, not 3GB shared if that's what you think. And you wouldn't upgrade to quad-SLI (2x590), that doesn't scale at all so that's also not an argument. Honestly, you're better off with a pair of 570's; last I checked, the 590 was also still having a LOT of issues with multi-monitor setups (not sure if you got more than one ) which are avoidable with a "normal" SLI setup. The 256 MB of RAM you'll lack isn't going to make a difference, especially not if you don't game at 2560x1600 at the least
| Casus wrote: | | Well, unless it turns out that Nvidia drivers are equally crappy. But that hasn't been my experience so far. |
They are, Sabin has some funny stories there and I had just as "many" issues with my 460 last year as I ever have on ATI/AMD. It's all a myth that one side has better drivers than the others; there's no real statistics or anything to prove that either. And I'm not an ATI/AMD fanboy; since my glorious Mach64+Voodoo combo I've had 3 ATI cards, rest have all been NVIDIA (a good 7 or 8 or so).
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sausje
Banned
Posts: 17716
Location: Limboland, Netherlands
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| Posted: Thu, 3rd Nov 2011 11:56 Post subject: |
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So you are an undercover Nvidia fanboy that is boycotting AMD eh? 
Proud member of Frustrated Association of International Losers Failing Against the Gifted and Superior (F.A.I.L.F.A.G.S)
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| Posted: Thu, 3rd Nov 2011 11:59 Post subject: |
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| Werelds wrote: | | Casus wrote: | | Also, I like the idea of 3D Vision - and it pisses me off when games use PhysX and I can't take advantage of it. |
3D Vision in its current form will disappear as proper 3D has a brighter future (most monitor manufacturers have one or more monitors aimed at using the TriDef or in Zalman's case, iZ3D drivers which work on both sides) and PhysX, well . . |
Yeah, but I don't really feel like sitting on my ass waiting for new tech to evolve and be implemented.
| Casus wrote: | | You do realise a 590 only has 1.5GB effectively right? it's 1.5GB per GPU, not 3GB shared if that's what you think. And you wouldn't upgrade to quad-SLI (2x590), that doesn't scale at all so that's also not an argument. |
Now, THAT I didn't know. Thank you for that information. Just cancelled my order. Pretty lousy of them to call it a 3GB card on the specs.
| Quote: | | Honestly, you're better off with a pair of 570's; last I checked, the 590 was also still having a LOT of issues with multi-monitor setups (not sure if you got more than one ) which are avoidable with a "normal" SLI setup. The 256 MB of RAM you'll lack isn't going to make a difference, especially not if you don't game at 2560x1600 at the least |
Nah, I'll probably go for a 3GB 580 then. A pair of 570 are just not enough of an upgrade for me, and I'd have to get a SLI board on the side.
| Casus wrote: | | Well, unless it turns out that Nvidia drivers are equally crappy. But that hasn't been my experience so farThey are, Sabin has some funny stories there and I had just as "many" issues with my 460 last year as I ever have on ATI/AMD. It's all a myth that one side has better drivers than the others; there's no real statistics or anything to prove that either. And I'm not an ATI/AMD fanboy; since my glorious Mach64+Voodoo combo I've had 3 ATI cards, rest have all been NVIDIA (a good 7 or 8 or so). |
Myth or no, I've got to go by my own experience with Nvidia. They've always been more stable for me, though I actually prefer ATI because of the pricing.
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Sin317
Banned
Posts: 24322
Location: Geneva
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| Posted: Thu, 3rd Nov 2011 12:08 Post subject: |
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well, it does have 3gb, problem is, only 1.5gb is used effectivly (like in single gpu), but it does have the 3gb vram .. its called marketing, using big numbers ^^
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| Posted: Thu, 3rd Nov 2011 12:10 Post subject: |
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But if it's like SLI'ing two 1.5 cards - they don't combine to 3GB.
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| Posted: Thu, 3rd Nov 2011 12:12 Post subject: |
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Think of it as RAID, mate. 1.5GB mirrored VRAM, which sucks.
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sausje
Banned
Posts: 17716
Location: Limboland, Netherlands
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| Posted: Thu, 3rd Nov 2011 12:12 Post subject: |
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@Casus
That is what he is saying, it has 3gb of ram, thanks to double 1.5, but it uses only 1.5.
@sabin1981
How can you compare it to raid? Raid goes with so many diffrent setups. Plus even if you look at it as only raid mirrored, then still there are huge diffrences in between what raid1 does and sli/crossfire multi vram does
Proud member of Frustrated Association of International Losers Failing Against the Gifted and Superior (F.A.I.L.F.A.G.S)
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| Posted: Thu, 3rd Nov 2011 12:17 Post subject: |
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Why would anyone care if it has 3GB VRAM if it can never use it?
It's like saying you have a dual-engine car because you have two of them.
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drammurt
Posts: 41
Location: Dutchieland
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| Posted: Thu, 3rd Nov 2011 12:17 Post subject: |
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I can compare it to mirrored RAID because, for all intents and purposes, that's exactly what it functions like.
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sausje
Banned
Posts: 17716
Location: Limboland, Netherlands
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| Posted: Thu, 3rd Nov 2011 12:18 Post subject: |
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| Casus wrote: | Why would anyone care if it has 3GB VRAM if it can never use it?
It's like saying you have a dual-engine car because you have two of them. |
| Sin317 wrote: | | .. its called marketing, using big numbers ^^ |
Many people dont bother to read and just buy buy buy because of big numbers.
| sabin1981 wrote: | | I can compare it to mirrored RAID because, for all intents and purposes, that's exactly what it functions like. |
But my friend, i never said that both don't function the same way, what they do with it is totally diffrent
VRAM just takes the same 1.5GB on textures/data, then they both compile it and send it back to PC.
Diffrence is that dual GPU, well GPU1 renders frame 1 with those textures while GPU2 renders frame 2, then GPU1 frame 3 and so on (if i have this correctly).
While mirrored raid just writes down what is on disc1 but they NEVER interact with eachother to make it run faster.
Proud member of Frustrated Association of International Losers Failing Against the Gifted and Superior (F.A.I.L.F.A.G.S)
Last edited by sausje on Thu, 3rd Nov 2011 12:21; edited 1 time in total |
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| Posted: Thu, 3rd Nov 2011 12:28 Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Many people dont bother to read and just buy buy buy because of big numbers. |
Yes, you don't bother to read.
He made a redundant statement. I just said the 3GB was useless as when you SLI they don't combine, and he repeated it. Since I don't assume people make redundant statements, I just re-iterated that the 3GB was useless unless he had some information that I'm not aware of.
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Mutantius
VIP Member
Posts: 18594
Location: In Elektro looking for beans
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| Posted: Thu, 3rd Nov 2011 12:29 Post subject: |
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@ Onboard its actually possible to cycle the viewing distance on the map with "N" and enlarging the map with "M"
"Why don't you zip it, Zipfero?" - fraich3
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sausje
Banned
Posts: 17716
Location: Limboland, Netherlands
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| Posted: Thu, 3rd Nov 2011 12:30 Post subject: |
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@Casus
wtf are you on about dude, you completely lost me. Unless you are talking about anyone else then what sin said...
Proud member of Frustrated Association of International Losers Failing Against the Gifted and Superior (F.A.I.L.F.A.G.S)
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| Posted: Thu, 3rd Nov 2011 12:46 Post subject: |
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| chiv wrote: | | im so nub.. i dont even know how you place beacons, or even that you could pick spawn locations :/ |
Only Recon has that radio thingy and that sucks as I don't like the class at all. "In the good old day" spawn beacon used to be a squad leader thing, no matter what class you were on. But they sort of made it better as anyone on the squad can place those. But they fucked that up too as you can see every? (spotted?) enemy spawnpoint from miles away.
Spawn beacon hunting was fun minigame, hear a "bliip" while strolling along somewhere and go hunt the beacon and blow it up. Even better was you couldn't deploy another, if you didn't destroy the earlier one.
DICE meeting "let's make spawn beacon recon exclusive so you can place your own spawn beacon to your favorite camp spot and if you happen to get shot just spawn there again" "yes, great idea!"
Another idea "Hey how about we let support have mortar, that way he can supply the thing indefinitely and spam them all over the map making RUSH mode useless" "awesome, I like the way you think!" 
I still like the game, just scared what more is hidden in there when I play more, this was just the first 2 days
LG 27UD58 27" 4K IPS | ASRock Z87M Extreme4 | i7-4770K @4.2GHz delid/reseal | Phanteks PH-TC14PE | Palit GTX 1070 Super JetStream coming! - Gigabyte GTX 970 G1 | 16GB G.Skill Sniper 1866Mhz | Samsung 850 EVO 250GB + Kingston UV400 480 GB | 2TB HDD | Fractal Design Newton R3 600W Platinum | Aerocool DS Window White | Logitech G9x | Corsair K70 Cherry MX Brown (MX Clear spacebar mod) | W10 Pro x64
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| Posted: Thu, 3rd Nov 2011 12:48 Post subject: |
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| Mutantius wrote: | | @ Onboard its actually possible to cycle the viewing distance on the map with "N" and enlarging the map with "M" |
Yep, "N" I have used, but that messes up the big "M" map as it shares the zoom. You want to see something on the minimap you zoom, then you want to see the whole map you press M, but now it's zoomed and you can see like 100m.
LG 27UD58 27" 4K IPS | ASRock Z87M Extreme4 | i7-4770K @4.2GHz delid/reseal | Phanteks PH-TC14PE | Palit GTX 1070 Super JetStream coming! - Gigabyte GTX 970 G1 | 16GB G.Skill Sniper 1866Mhz | Samsung 850 EVO 250GB + Kingston UV400 480 GB | 2TB HDD | Fractal Design Newton R3 600W Platinum | Aerocool DS Window White | Logitech G9x | Corsair K70 Cherry MX Brown (MX Clear spacebar mod) | W10 Pro x64
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Werelds
Special Little Man
Posts: 15098
Location: 0100111001001100
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| Posted: Thu, 3rd Nov 2011 12:50 Post subject: |
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| Casus wrote: | | Why would anyone care if it has 3GB VRAM if it can never use it? |
Marketing
That's the biggest problem with dual-GPU cards, all the misconceptions around them. In most cases they're quite literally two single cards put on the same PCB, but underclocked to manage the temperatures and power usage. In the 590's case the GPUs are in fact clocked WAY BELOW a 570 (by 120/200-ish IIRC). Each GPU still has its own memory, they still have to communicate over a slow bus in order to sync and there's no real technical difference between it or a regular multi-card setup. Still hoping AMD bring back Sideport, which could change that
| drammurt wrote: | | Currently NVidia's 3D Vision is still way ahead of AMD's HD3D, period. If you're willing to pay a few bucks for it, then go for it. Also gaming in 2D at 120Hz is much smoother. Can't wait for DICE to finally enable their native 3D which they've implemented in the game engine (instead that it is generated by the driver). |
Again an NVIDIA fanboy not reading what the fuck I actually wrote. HD3D won't last long either. It's a third party, vendor independent solution that will ultimately prevail. At the moment, that vendor seems to be TriDef; they've got the best game support right now, as well as the best monitor support.
BF3's native 3D, or Crysis 2 for example, can use that, making the experience seamless for both sides because they don't have to work with two separate API's. The PC is finally slowly moving towards accepting HDMI and DP properly, meaning we can use normal 3D and we'll actually have some choice in hardware rather than having to choose for either side and be stuck with it.
I need to stop reading dumb posts
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| Posted: Thu, 3rd Nov 2011 12:53 Post subject: |
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Bah, now I can't decide what to go for... The 580 I want isn't in stock anywhere - and I'm an impatient moron with these things...
Oh well - just gotta sit it out.
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drammurt
Posts: 41
Location: Dutchieland
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